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Spock
August 7th, 2012, 01:22 PM
[Full disclosure: I am a pure (i.e. "drop dead") sprinter :)]

Watching Track & Field, I'm always struck how they offer what can truly be described as "pure" sprints: the 100m dash (and in indoors, the 60m). These are races that time sub-10 and sub-7 seconds at the elite level. Yet swimming's shortest race is 21 seconds (for the rest of us, quite a bit more than 21 seconds ...).

I was speaking with some sprint swimming coaches who agreed that even our "splash & dash" 50 free is not a true sprint ... it's close, but the best sprinters actually back off a tiny fraction from their absolute max to maintain a greater speed overall. At my USMS level, the winning times are in the low 25's. There's no way that's a true sprint -- 25 seconds is not entirely ATP-fueled. And while it's mostly anaerobic, is it entirely? Certainly a sub-10 or sub-7 race would be.

Time-wise, our 50 parallels Track & Field's 200 rather than their marquee sprint, the 100.

In my fantasy world, I imagine a 25m race at the international level (swimming through the finish like Track & Field athletes) ... fastest reaction, fastest acceleration, fastest underwater & surface, fastest ABSOLUTE speed.

Before 1988, our "shortest" Olympic race was the 100m!

knelson
August 7th, 2012, 01:34 PM
For one thing a race ending in the middle of the pool would require a completely different timing setup and this would be way too costly at any events except the very highest level. A short course 25 would be fun, though. I've seen it at a few meets as a novelty event.

Warren
August 7th, 2012, 02:44 PM
During the 100m dash the announcer said that Usain Bolt takes 41 steps and everyone else takes about 44. In the 50m free the stroke counts range from about 34-38. If you account for the time flying through the air and the breakout, swimmers don't get into there all out stroke until 3 or 4 seconds into it. In swimming, you are maintain the speed from the start in the very beginning of the race. The beginning of the 100m dash takes a lot of energy to accelerate to top speed. I ran track in middle school and the 100m dash definitely isn't easy even though it's a really short race time wise. I think the 50 free and 100m dash are pretty close in how much energy it requires.

fmracing
August 7th, 2012, 03:02 PM
I think a huge reason you don't see this in short course pools is that many venues have a hard time affording enough timing equipment for one side of the pool let alone both. Instead of double pads, You could either move the blocks or the timing equipment, but neither of these are typically logistically feasible for the middle of a swim meet.

Plus, if masters swimmers are any indication, this nation pretty much hates sprints, sprinting, and sprinters in general, so this would never happen anyway. :bolt:

__steve__
August 7th, 2012, 03:04 PM
I thought there is no pacing in the 100M dash, just hit and maintain max speed. In the 50M swim, if I reach top speed anywhere after breakout I would die near the 35 M. For example, I can push 25M 2 sec quicker than I can take a 50 home.

I'm with spock on this

ande
August 7th, 2012, 03:07 PM
Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records.
Let's make it happen.

smontanaro
August 7th, 2012, 03:10 PM
I thought there is no pacing in the 100M dash, just hit and maintain max speed.

I don't think there is any pacing, but most sprinters can't maintain their max speed either. I heard one announcer at some point (maybe during the Beijing Olympics) say that's what set Usain Bolt apart from the herd. His speed doesn't fall off as quickly as the other runners. It looks like he's kicked it into another gear, but that's only in comparison to the other runners, who are slowing down.

I would love to see the measured evidence of this, some sort of velocity v. distance graph for several elite sprinters.

S

Spock
August 7th, 2012, 03:32 PM
Plus, if masters swimmers are any indication, this nation pretty much hates sprints, sprinting, and sprinters in general, so this would never happen anyway. :bolt:

Ha! Yet another reason I've never found a masters team that actually sprints! ;)

Spock
August 7th, 2012, 03:44 PM
In swimming, you are maintain the speed from the start in the very beginning of the race.

Interesting reply, Warren. I've sprinted for 40 years and I definitely change speeds in the 50 (as Steve pointed out, I'd fry by 20 meters were I to max out effort)

I find backing off 5% or so after beeakout in the 50m allows me to finish stronger and with a better time. Were it a 10 second race, I'd max out.

Warren
August 7th, 2012, 04:16 PM
Interesting reply, Warren. I've sprinted for 40 years and I definitely change speeds in the 50 (as Steve pointed out, I'd fry by 20 meters were I to max out effort)

I find backing off 5% or so after beeakout in the 50m allows me to finish stronger and with a better time. Were it a 10 second race, I'd max out.

The fastest you will go in swimming is while you are in the air and right after you hit the water. The elite swimmers take 4 or 5 quick dolphin kicks maintaining the speed they hit the water with, then all they need is a few strokes to get to the speed they need to be at. I agree that backing off a little can give you a faster time. I should have said optimal race speed instead of top speed.

It takes a lot more work build up to top speed in track. If you look at this video, Usain Bolt takes 12 steps before he lifts his head up. Usain Bolt beats Gay and sets new Record - from Universal Sports - YouTube Swimmers get to optimal speed right away.

What I’m trying to say is that It’s harder and takes more energy to get to top speed in running but easier to maintain and it’s easier to get to top speed in swimming but harder to maintain.

chaos
August 7th, 2012, 04:27 PM
a "pure sprint" wouldn't start with a dive... and I can't think of a thing more boring than watching a bunch of folks splash like hell for 10 seconds or less.

fmracing
August 7th, 2012, 04:51 PM
I can't think of a thing more boring than watching a bunch of folks splash like hell for 10 seconds or less.

There's always the mile...

Stevepowell
August 7th, 2012, 05:29 PM
Nadine Day puts on on meet at Danville, IL every Jan with 25's.

http://ilmsa.com/files/meets/results/2010/danville-20100131.htm

That Guy
August 7th, 2012, 05:46 PM
There are many sprint results already in our event results database, but you have to know how to look for them (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/eventrank.php?Season=2012&Sex=M&StrokeID=1&Distance=25&lowage=18&highage=104&How_Many=100&CourseID=1).

Chris Stevenson
August 7th, 2012, 07:45 PM
We don't do 25s because we aren't 10 years old any more?

__steve__
August 7th, 2012, 07:51 PM
At least kids know how to have fun.

Spock
August 7th, 2012, 07:54 PM
We don't do 25s because we aren't 10 years old any more?

I remember hearing a lot of these jokes in the 80s when FINA was considering including the 50 for the first time. And hey Chris, aren't we the same age? ;)

jaadams1
August 7th, 2012, 11:40 PM
Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records.
Let's make it happen.


I could (SARCASM) really see myself sending in meet entries, driving across the state, $$$$ for gas and food and occasionally hotels, or flying across the country to dive in for :10-:11 seconds of racing. Sign me up...:bolt:

Spock
August 8th, 2012, 12:11 AM
I could (SARCASM) really see myself sending in meet entries, driving across the state, $$$$ for gas and food and occasionally hotels, or flying across the country to dive in for :10-:11 seconds of racing. Sign me up...:bolt:

Well James, it certainly wouldn't be for everybody, but isn't what you're describing what elite track & field sprinters do?

I fly across the country to race other guys from around the country for 21 seconds. If we got to do another race of 11 seconds, great! Plus, I'd do better! ;)

jaadams1
August 8th, 2012, 12:16 AM
Well James, it certainly wouldn't be for everybody, but isn't what you're describing what elite track & field sprinters do?

I fly across the country to race other guys from around the country for 21 seconds. If we got to do another race of 11 seconds, great! Plus, I'd do better! ;)

You are right. This is just my personal view on my competitions. I'd prefer to "get my money's worth" out of a competition. Not necessarily only swimming the longest events, but I don't like to travel across the state to do four 50s and a 100 IM either.

Peter Cruise
August 8th, 2012, 01:16 AM
James, don't you drive across the state for the pure pleasure of supporting the multi-national oil companies?

__steve__
August 8th, 2012, 06:02 AM
I would drive 4 hours anyday for four 25 events. The reason why is because I wasn't gifted with vo2 max

Chris Stevenson
August 8th, 2012, 08:10 AM
Why no pure distance event? The longest track event, the 10K, is almost twice as long as the longest pool swimming event.

fmracing
August 8th, 2012, 08:44 AM
Why no pure distance event? The longest track event, the 10K, is almost twice as long as the longest pool swimming event.

Because you only need a calendar to time such an event. No need for a meet and touchpads ;)
:applaud:

smontanaro
August 8th, 2012, 08:51 AM
Why no pure distance event? The longest track event, the 10K, is almost twice as long as the longest pool swimming event.

State meets would run too long. :)

gdanner
August 8th, 2012, 09:57 AM
Maybe 25's for 65+ year olds.

Everyone younger would dive and kick (or pullout) past halfway, then take a couple strokes and hit the wall. That's not really my idea of swimming, but whatever floats your boat.

I'd like to see 400's of stroke and an 800 im.

fatboy
August 8th, 2012, 12:14 PM
I would drive 4 hours anyday for four 25 events. The reason why is because I wasn't gifted with vo2 max

Speed is a gift - vo2max has to be EARNED!

:)

Allen Stark
August 8th, 2012, 12:30 PM
I have flown to CA basically to get a fast time in the 50 BR.I swam the other BR events since I was there(and maybe something after the BRs were done,I don't remember.)If they gave TTs and AAs for the 25 BR and I couldn't find a local meet in a fast pool to swim it ,I'd probably go out of state for that too.

Rob Copeland
August 8th, 2012, 12:40 PM
For one thing a race ending in the middle of the pool would require a completely different timing setup and this would be way too costly...Then why not have it start in the middle instead of end there? You could run it like Sailing, where part of your race tactics is to hit the starting line at full speed just as the horn sounds. If you cross the start line too early you are DQ’ed.

Allen Stark
August 8th, 2012, 12:43 PM
Then why not have it start in the middle instead of end there? You could run it like Sailing, where part of your race tactics is to hit the starting line at full speed just as the horn sounds. If you cross the start line too early you are DQ’ed.
Now that is a cool idea.

__steve__
August 8th, 2012, 12:53 PM
For pools with timing sensors located only at one end of the pool we can have 3 more events, 25's from a push.

smontanaro
August 8th, 2012, 12:53 PM
Of course there's not a lot of room to tack before the start. :) Also, you'd have to have some sort of "christmas tree" lights underwater like they use in drag racing, so you could time the start.

__steve__
August 8th, 2012, 01:08 PM
Of course there's not a lot of room to tack before the start. :) Also, you'd have to have some sort of "christmas tree" lights underwater like they use in drag racing, so you could time the start.
And a 15M velocity meter for speed points

adsollm
August 8th, 2012, 03:37 PM
Maybe 25's for 65+ year olds.

Everyone younger would dive and kick (or pullout) past halfway, then take a couple strokes and hit the wall. That's not really my idea of swimming, but whatever floats your boat.

I'd like to see 400's of stroke and an 800 im.

cringe

Indianaman79
August 8th, 2012, 03:47 PM
I could (SARCASM) really see myself sending in meet entries, driving across the state, $$$$ for gas and food and occasionally hotels, or flying across the country to dive in for :10-:11 seconds of racing. Sign me up...:bolt:


I live in indiana and drove up to mid wisconsin, stayed in a hotel and went to the pool the next day all for a single 50 free. if you enjoy what you do, what does it matter how far or how many events you swim. I certainly would do a drive for a single 25.

Chris Stevenson
August 8th, 2012, 04:54 PM
I'd like to see 400's of stroke and an 800 im.

Me too.

no200fly
August 8th, 2012, 05:46 PM
I would drive 4 hours anyday for four 25 events. The reason why is because I wasn't gifted with vo2 max

Come to Dallas in February for the third annual Republic of Texas World Championship. They race 25s of each stroke and tech suits are legal.

Fins25
August 8th, 2012, 06:19 PM
I don't think there is any pacing, but most sprinters can't maintain their max speed either. I heard one announcer at some point (maybe during the Beijing Olympics) say that's what set Usain Bolt apart from the herd. His speed doesn't fall off as quickly as the other runners. It looks like he's kicked it into another gear, but that's only in comparison to the other runners, who are slowing down.

I would love to see the measured evidence of this, some sort of velocity v. distance graph for several elite sprinters.

S

I haven't got the London Games but this is Bolt's splits for Beijing in 10m intervals
1.85s
1.02s
0.91s
0.87s
0.85s
0.82s
0.82s
0.82s
0.83s
0.90s

As you can see he is a little slower getting to his top speed and doesn't have a large drop off. This is very rare.

knelson
August 8th, 2012, 06:44 PM
As you can see he is a little slower getting to his top speed and doesn't have a large drop off. This is very rare.

He might not really have any drop-off. In Beijing he hit the brakes toward the end of the race.

That Guy
August 29th, 2012, 04:19 PM
Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records.
Let's make it happen.



I'd like to see 400's of stroke and an 800 im.

There's been a bunch of discussion about this lately. What needs to change is Rule 102.5 in Part 1: Swimming Rules (http://www.usms.org/rules/part1.pdf). (additions in green)


102.5 Events
102.5.1 Short Course (25) Yards
25-50-100-200-500-1000-1650 yards freestyle
25-50-100-200-500-1000-1650 yards backstroke
25-50-100-200-500-1000-1650 yards breaststroke
25-50-100-200-500-1000-1650 yards butterfly
100-200-400-800 yards individual medley
200-400-800 yards freestyle relay
200-400-800 yards mixed freestyle relay
200-400 yards medley relay
200-400 yards mixed medley relay
102.5.2 Long Course (50) Meters and Short Course (25) Meters
25*-50-100-200-400-800-1500 meters freestyle
25*-50-100-200-400-800-1500 meters backstroke
25*-50-100-200-400-800-1500 meters breaststroke
25*-50-100-200-400-800-1500 meters butterfly
100*-200-400-800 meters individual medley
200-400-800 meters freestyle relay
200-400-800 meters mixed freestyle relay
200-400 meters medley relay
200-400 meters mixed medley relay
*short course meters only
Note: For nonconforming events see article 202.1.1F(3).
Part 6: Amendment Procedures (http://www.usms.org/rules/part6.pdf) explains how to go about this:


601.1.5 Rules Committee—Proposed changes to Part 1: Swimming Rules and the Glossary shall be considered by the Rules Committee for report and recommendation to the House of Delegates.

601.2.4 Publication of Proposed Amendments—All proposed changes shall be published and distributed to each LMSC and each member of the House of Delegates not later than August 15.

601.4 Adoption Of Proposed Amendments
The USMS Code of Regulations and Rules of Competition may only be altered, amended, repealed or otherwise changed at the annual meeting of the House of Delegates and only as follows:

601.4.1 Rules—In even-numbered years, Part 1 and the Glossary may be amended by a majority vote of the House of Delegates members present and voting if the proposed amendments are submitted to and recommended by the Rules Committee, or by a two-thirds vote of the House of Delegates members present and voting if the proposed amendments are submitted to and NOT recommended by the Rules Committee.

So the next window of opportunity to vote on this change is the 2014 Convention. According to the latest minutes (https://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/rules-2012-3-18-1.pdf), there are some forumites on the Rules Committee. Rules Committee members, how does a change get proposed to the Rules Committee for consideration?

Other interesting bits:

102.10.1 Seeding Principles for Masters Competition
B Age groups, genders and events of the same distance 200 yards or longer may be combined so that no swimmer has to swim alone and lanes may be filled.

Part 2: Administrative Regulations of Competition (http://www.usms.org/rules/part2.pdf)

Chris Stevenson
August 29th, 2012, 05:30 PM
So the next window of opportunity to vote on this change is the 2014 Convention. According to the latest minutes (https://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/rules-2012-3-18-1.pdf), there are some forumites on the Rules Committee. Rules Committee members, how does a change get proposed to the Rules Committee for consideration?

I'm not on the Rules Committee but (as chair of Records & Tabulation) I have submitted rule change proposals. One thing to remember is Article 601.2.1:


Authorization—Changes to the USMS Code of Regulations and Rules of Competition may be proposed only by an LMSC, a standing committee of
the House of Delegates, the Board of Directors or the Executive Committee.

The most common route for a typical USMS member to get a rule proposed is take it to his/her LMSC Board and have them make the proposal. Of course it would help to build a "base" of support to convince the LMSC officers that this is something that members in their LMSC would want. Deadline for rule change submissions is July 1 if I recall correctly.

I should probably point out that it is not completely necessary to propose a rule change to contest events like 25 free or 500 backstroke. Some meets already do this as "non-standard" events. Possibly we could even convince the IT folk to start tracking such non-standard events in our results database so that there could be unofficial "top ten" rankings and records. But this approach maybe won't satisfy some people (maybe most).

smontanaro
August 29th, 2012, 05:59 PM
Wouldn't it be useful to try some of these as demonstration events at local meets before proposing them nationally? Would the presence of 25s or an 800IM at a local meet mean it can't get a sanction?

chowmi
August 30th, 2012, 09:25 AM
You are right. This is just my personal view on my competitions. I'd prefer to "get my money's worth" out of a competition. Not necessarily only swimming the longest events, but I don't like to travel across the state to do four 50s and a 100 IM either.


Too funny. I am in the totally opposite camp and think that doing ONE 50 in an entire meet is worthwhile. Otherwise, swimming a bunch of events cuts into my Doin' Nuthin' / Napping in my Deck Chair time. And to me it's not just about swimming fast, it's about getting early dibs on the showers and leaving a meet before the last event so I can go out to eat that much faster.

There are quite a few meets that offer 25's, you just have to look for them! Or, even better, take the initiative to host a meet with 25's!

Chris Stevenson
August 30th, 2012, 09:47 AM
Wouldn't it be useful to try some of these as demonstration events at local meets before proposing them nationally? Would the presence of 25s or an 800IM at a local meet mean it can't get a sanction?

I haven't seen any meets with the longer events, though I have seen meets with 25s. I've also seen a meet with odd relays (eg, 400 backstroke or 400 IM relay).

The meet gets a sanction but the so-called "non-standard" events results are not submitted for Top 10 consideration, records, etc, and this is stated explicitly in the meet information packet. (Though, interestingly, it is possible to get a legit split from a non-standard event: for example, you can do a split request for the first 200 of an 800 IM and it would be considered for Top 10 in the 200 fly.)

Chris Stevenson
August 30th, 2012, 09:55 AM
One final thing: it is too late for this year, but in two years' time (the next "Rules" year) I would be put this before the Records and Tabulation Committee to see if they want to submit a rule change proposal to add 25s and longer events for results/record tabulation. It is quite likely I will no longer be chair at the time -- and in any event, the chair cannot make motions directly -- but this sort of thing probably falls within the purview of the committee since essentially you are proposing that we start tracking results, Top 10 and records.

Just so people understand the process: rule change proposals go to the Rules Committee. They may make changes to improve clarity, ensure conformity with existing rules, clean up the rationale, etc (in collaboration with the proposing body mostly), and then they vote on whether to recommend the rule for passage. If they do recommend, then a simple majority of the House of Delegates would pass the rule; if they recommend against passage, then the bar is higher (I think a two-thirds majority is needed from the HOD but I'd have to look that up).

For a rule change to pass in an "off" year, the Rules Committee has to deem it an emergency and then I think a 90% majority is needed to pass. Or something like that; I'm being lazy and not looking it up right now...

__steve__
August 30th, 2012, 10:10 AM
Thank you !

That Guy
August 30th, 2012, 12:55 PM
One final thing: it is too late for this year, but in two years' time (the next "Rules" year) I would be put this before the Records and Tabulation Committee to see if they want to submit a rule change proposal to add 25s and longer events for results/record tabulation. It is quite likely I will no longer be chair at the time -- and in any event, the chair cannot make motions directly -- but this sort of thing probably falls within the purview of the committee since essentially you are proposing that we start tracking results, Top 10 and records.

Just so people understand the process: rule change proposals go to the Rules Committee. They may make changes to improve clarity, ensure conformity with existing rules, clean up the rationale, etc (in collaboration with the proposing body mostly), and then they vote on whether to recommend the rule for passage. If they do recommend, then a simple majority of the House of Delegates would pass the rule; if they recommend against passage, then the bar is higher (I think a two-thirds majority is needed from the HOD but I'd have to look that up).

For a rule change to pass in an "off" year, the Rules Committee has to deem it an emergency and then I think a 90% majority is needed to pass. Or something like that; I'm being lazy and not looking it up right now...

Thanks Chris!

jaadams1
August 30th, 2012, 07:25 PM
(Though, interestingly, it is possible to get a legit split from a non-standard event: for example, you can do a split request for the first 200 of an 800 IM and it would be considered for Top 10 in the 200 fly.)

SWEET!!! Nothing like taking out an 800 IM at a full speed "sprint" to get my 200 Fly time for TT purposes, and then trying to survive the backstroke afterward. :) Even though I'm on my back, I may be sinking.

Note to self...I am entered in the 800 SCM Free at the end of the NW Zone SCM meet on October...hmmm ;) (yes I realize it can't count as a 200 Fly time, because it's and 800 FREE, but the 800 IM is still a possibility. Will have to wait for the seedings to find out.)

That Guy
August 30th, 2012, 07:42 PM
SWEET!!! Nothing like taking out an 800 IM at a full speed "sprint" to get my 200 Fly time for TT purposes, and then trying to survive the backstroke afterward. :) Even though I'm on my back, I may be sinking.

I'll take "Things That No One Says" for $2000, Trebek


Note to self...I am entered in the 800 SCM Free at the end of the NW Zone SCM meet on October...hmmm ;) (yes I realize it can't count as a 200 Fly time, because it's and 800 FREE, but the 800 IM is still a possibility. Will have to wait for the seedings to find out.)

What is your entry time? No, no reason... What? Why is everyone staring at me?

jaadams1
August 30th, 2012, 10:49 PM
What is your entry time? No, no reason... What? Why is everyone staring at me?

9:26.12 if you want to gridge. I'm sure it'll be a top heat entry, but we could always IM it anyway! :bolt:

__steve__
August 31st, 2012, 06:25 AM
Do they gridge 25's?

smontanaro
August 31st, 2012, 08:44 AM
Do they gridge 25's?

If you swim it, they will gridge...

__steve__
October 7th, 2013, 03:57 PM
Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records.
Let's make it happen.
bump

arthur
October 7th, 2013, 05:34 PM
bump
Canadian masters meets sometimes offer 25m events. They don't keep a top 10/top 20 or records but if you search for all events in the results database you can see times and national/provincial ranks: http://www.mymsc.ca/EventResults.jsp?event=*&age=18&gender=M&course=S&year=2013&province=*&ranking=swimmer

__steve__
October 7th, 2013, 08:35 PM
Even without record/top ten, though that would not concern me, I believe it would be a fun event to have available once or twice a year.

Recent meets in database with all-out events:

SCM 2012
Rowdy Gaines Masters Classic IV (Florida LMSC)
NAC Masters Sprinting Turkeys Classic (Southeastern LMSC)
4th Annual UVAC Leaf Peepers Masters Meet (New England LMSC)

SCY 2012 and 2013
Sun Devil Masters Invitational Sprinters Spectacular (Arizona LMSC)
Mission Viejo Masters SCY Meet (Southern Pacific LMSC)
Skaneateles Masters Meet 2013 (Niagara LMSC)
2013 Wenatchee Winter Invitational (Inland Northwest LMSC)
Bath YMCA Sprint Meet (New England LMSC)
Ballston Spa Holiday Classic Swim Meet (Adirondack LMSC)
Rocky Mountain Senior Games (Colorado LMSC)
Pasadena Senior Games (Southern Pacific LMSC)

200free
October 8th, 2013, 03:27 PM
We have a meet in Northern Virginia in 2 weeks that offers all the 25's. They're unofficial of course but if USMS changed the rules I'd make them official events.
http://www.patriotmasters.org/SprintClassic.htm

swimcat
October 8th, 2013, 04:23 PM
Rowdy Gaines meet always has 25's. I do one as a warm up when i get in friday to get used to blocks. It is fun

__steve__
October 8th, 2013, 05:03 PM
Rowdy Gaines meet always has 25's. I do one as a warm up when i get in friday to get used to blocks. It is funI really wanted to attend this meet.

Average John Smith
October 8th, 2013, 06:02 PM
Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records.
Let's make it happen.

I second the motion.

rtodd
October 13th, 2013, 05:41 PM
I think the 25 could be a legitimate event. We will soon see someone in the 17's, so I think an 8 for a 25 would compare to a 6.5 for the 60m track event.

SolarEnergy
April 28th, 2014, 12:44 PM
Masters should offer 25's and keep 25 records.
Let's make it happen. Not just the Masters Ande, the 25m free has been available for ages at the Varsity level (i.e., much closer to actual elite level). Event is usually won in 10sec or so.

__steve__
July 1st, 2015, 04:23 PM
I would love to swim a 25 yd/m event, even if a starting block was not an option.

The closest opportunity around here is just once a year and over a 6 hour drive.

Bobinator
July 1st, 2015, 05:04 PM
We've had 3 or 4 meets in the Indiana area with 25's; they are very popular too. I think we keep state records in these events. At the very least the 25's will get some of the newer or less skilled swimmers to attend meets. At the upper end, it's fun to watch super fast people sprint top speed!!