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View Full Version : Splashing water on a dry suit before racing???



geochuck
August 12th, 2012, 06:59 PM
I have noticed Olympians and also at meets I have been at over the last six weeks that people are getting their suit wet before they race. I have always recommended that you do not dive in the water with a wet swim suit. Many suits are made of closely knit material and are water proof. Water droplets can not pass through these suits.

I have been telling swimmers not to wet the suit before they race. The reports back to me is that they are faster wearing a completely dry swim suit before they enter the water. Comments please.

That Guy
August 12th, 2012, 08:33 PM
I have noticed Olympians and also at meets I have been at over the last six weeks that people are getting their suit wet before they race. I have always recomended that you do not dive in the water with a wet swim suit. Many suits are made of closely knit material and are water proof. Water droplets can not pass through these suits.

I have been telling swimmers not to wet the suit before they race. The reports back to me is that they are faster wearing a completely dry swim suit before they enter the water. Comments please.

I agree that the pre-race rituals of splashing oneself, spitting water back into the pool, and so forth are very silly and accomplish nothing. On very few occasions, I have splashed myself prior to a race because I was sweating and wanted to cool off a bit prior to getting on the blocks.

pwb
August 12th, 2012, 09:04 PM
Since Starbucks is rarely on deck for a pre-race espresso, I like the cool-water splash for waking me up. Suit-science be damned!

That Guy
August 12th, 2012, 09:08 PM
Starbucks is rarely on deck

Does he hang out in the locker room?

letsrace
August 12th, 2012, 09:47 PM
I completely agree with geochuck. In fact, I argue that I want to still be dry when I finish my race too. ;)

fmracing
August 12th, 2012, 11:31 PM
nowhere have i seen anyone say the suits are less effective at the end of a 200 than the beginning. with this in mind why would it matter if you wet the suit down for a 100 or any similar scenario?

geochuck
August 12th, 2012, 11:45 PM
It is the first time you have heard this because mentioned this before. I have seen this with a few waterproof suits. A girl who used a kneck to knee suit swam 16 seconds faster for a 200 after I told her to use a dry suit. May be it was in her mind. That is the reason I mentioned this and asked for comments.


nowhere have i seen anyone say the suits are less effective at the end of a 200 than the beginning. with this in mind why would it matter if you wet the suit down for a 100 or any similar scenario?

fmracing
August 13th, 2012, 10:53 AM
swam 16 seconds faster for a 200 after I told her to use a dry suit. May be it was in her mind.

I was replying from a phone last night so my post didn't make much sense now that I look at it...

If the dry suit had THAT crazy of an effect, not only would we have all heard about it by now, you'd also notice the later splits in races get slower. If it really was 16 seconds in a 200 difference just by starting dry, then you should expect to see some major differences in split times with these suits during say, the second 200 of a 400 since that was "started" with the suit already wet. Even when you factor in pacing and getting tired, one would expect to see a difference that large indicated in split times, but there is none.

I don't buy it, at least not that extreme of a difference. The example you cite, it HAD to be in her mind or have other factors at play. A few tenths, perhaps. Thats at least a little easier to believe.

smontanaro
August 13th, 2012, 11:08 AM
If you noticed in any underwater shots, especially of the women's suits (more fabric), it seemed like they held some air there for at least awhile. While the modern suits are textile, not rubberized, I'm sure the fabric itself and whatever coatings they do use, are pretty hydrophobic.

philoswimmer
August 13th, 2012, 11:12 AM
Back when all we had was Lycra, we used to splash ourselves. I always assumed that it was less of a "shock" when you hit the water, and so could get right to the business of swimming. Or, it was just a little ritual to keep our minds occupied.

geochuck
August 13th, 2012, 11:18 AM
Some of the suits are made like this.

Textile fabric in the suit is water resistant because the fabric when knitted or woven tight provides a limited barrier between the body and the water. It will reduce drag and allows the swimmer to sit higher in the water and therefore allows less drag and restrictions.

Britt03
August 13th, 2012, 11:25 AM
I make my suit wet before the race because
1. it fits differently when it's wet, so I can make it fit perfectly before hitting the water. I press out air which will otherwise create drag.
2. I get used to the water temperature and don't get shocked when jumping in.

__steve__
August 13th, 2012, 12:06 PM
I don't think <0.1 seconds of time is that important to many masters.

I seemed to be the only shaved swimmer at a recent zones meet, and at the end of the day probably would have placed the same, unshaven, wearing a $20 suit (3rd, 3rd, 4th, 6th, and 6rd, and definitely would've placed the same in the event where I was DFL).

But is there really a difference in performance for an Olympian that splashes a little water 30 sec prior to start or not? If a suit will loose its hydrophobic properties in less than a minute with just a small amount of water would probably loose it within seconds of plunging in anyway.

Chris Stevenson
August 13th, 2012, 12:49 PM
I hear Ryan Lochte wets his suit before the race, but I'm Not sure if that's what this is about.:bolt:

__steve__
August 13th, 2012, 02:53 PM
I'm not quite a chemist, but wouldn't that increase permeability through ionic differential?

Allen Stark
August 13th, 2012, 04:01 PM
The suits hold air for a little while,increasing buoyancy.This is much less of a effect with the fabric suits than it was with the tech suits.To me,every little bit helps.

letsrace
August 14th, 2012, 09:27 AM
I hear Ryan Lochte wets his suit before the race, but I'm sure if that's what this is about.:bolt:
That explains the satisfied smile on his face behind the blocks...

knelson
August 14th, 2012, 03:53 PM
2. I get used to the water temperature and don't get shocked when jumping in.

Have you ever actually been shocked when diving in at the start of a race? I have to say the last thing I'm thinking about when I hit the water is what temperature it is.

The ritual I don't get is people who put some of the pool water in their mouth and then spit it out. WTF?

ElaineK
August 14th, 2012, 04:00 PM
The ritual I don't get is people who put some of the pool water in their mouth and then spit it out. WTF?

Exactly! :shakeshead: I wonder the same thing (WTF?) when I see that. I really need somebody to explain that one to me...

Rob Copeland
August 14th, 2012, 04:36 PM
The ritual I don't get is people who put some of the pool water in their mouth and then spit it out. WTF?What, you expect us to swallow that nasty pool water?

I believe the act of water spouting is an offshoot of ancient sport of Kudu dung spitting.

From How to Spit with Style http://www.vinquire.com/blog/2007/nov/24/how-spit-style/
“Before you go to an event where you will be spitting…, it is best to practice the art with … some water, and a large sink. The shower is another great place to practice. However, regardless of your spitting skills, everyone (even the pros) will occasionally dribble a little on their chin or shirt. It's best to bring a few tissues with you should that happen.”

swimshark
August 14th, 2012, 08:39 PM
Back when all we had was Lycra, we used to splash ourselves. I always assumed that it was less of a "shock" when you hit the water, and so could get right to the business of swimming. Or, it was just a little ritual to keep our minds occupied.

This is me. I do it as a ritual and to cool off a bit before a race.

That Guy
August 15th, 2012, 06:26 PM
OK, somebody help me understand the pre-race ritual of repeatedly slapping oneself. I saw a few guys do it in the Olympics, and this week I've seen it before various finals of Junior Nationals. Is this meant to trigger adrenaline, or the fight or flight reflex, or what? :dunno:

joel schmaltz
August 15th, 2012, 06:43 PM
OK, somebody help me understand the pre-race ritual of repeatedly slapping oneself. I saw a few guys do it in the Olympics, and this week I've seen it before various finals of Junior Nationals. Is this meant to trigger adrenaline, or the fight or flight reflex, or what? :dunno:

I think it is to stlmulate blood flow. I would assume they cold get the same result without a self induced beat down.

joel schmaltz
August 15th, 2012, 06:55 PM
OK, somebody help me understand the pre-race ritual of repeatedly slapping oneself. I saw a few guys do it in the Olympics, and this week I've seen it before various finals of Junior Nationals. Is this meant to trigger adrenaline, or the fight or flight reflex, or what? :dunno:

I think it is to stlmulate blood flow. I would assume they cold get the same result without a self induced beat down.

rxleakem
August 15th, 2012, 08:45 PM
Helps to wake up the nerve endings and enhance the feel of the water. :applaud:

geochuck
August 15th, 2012, 09:19 PM
Just wondering - what ever happened to warm up exercises, not cooling off rituals. Warm muscles work better if not cooled off too soon.

jaadams1
August 15th, 2012, 11:06 PM
OK, somebody help me understand the pre-race ritual of repeatedly slapping oneself. I saw a few guys do it in the Olympics, and this week I've seen it before various finals of Junior Nationals. Is this meant to trigger adrenaline, or the fight or flight reflex, or what? :dunno:

I can help you out with this at Gil Young if you need to test it out. Before the 100 Fly (assuming we're seeded next to each other), we'll take turns hitting...errr...slapping each other. I get to go first though. :chug:

That Guy
August 16th, 2012, 12:37 AM
Constructive predialectic theory and Baudrillardist simulation

Ludwig T. I. Long
Department of Semiotics, Miskatonic University, Arkham, Mass.


1. Narratives of meaninglessness

The characteristic theme of Geoffrey’s[1] model of postsemanticist textual theory is the paradigm, and subsequent fatal flaw, of predialectic sexuality. Lacan’s critique of constructive predialectic theory states that consciousness is capable of significance, but only if language is distinct from narrativity.
“Class is intrinsically impossible,” says Debord; however, according to von Junz[2] , it is not so much class that is intrinsically impossible, but rather the meaninglessness of class. However, if Baudrillardist simulation holds, we have to choose between constructive predialectic theory and the postcultural paradigm of expression. Marx uses the term ‘capitalist appropriation’ to denote a mythopoetical totality.
If one examines Sartreist absurdity, one is faced with a choice: either accept constructive predialectic theory or conclude that art serves to entrench the status quo. In a sense, the premise of the predeconstructivist paradigm of discourse implies that expression is created by the masses. The main theme of the works of Spelling is the role of the reader as observer.
“Sexual identity is part of the paradigm of culture,” says Sontag; however, according to Finnis[3] , it is not so much sexual identity that is part of the paradigm of culture, but rather the failure, and some would say the genre, of sexual identity. But in La Dolce Vita, Fellini deconstructs Baudrillardist simulation; in Amarcord, however, he analyses cultural feminism. The subject is contextualised into a Baudrillardist simulation that includes language as a whole.
Thus, Sartre suggests the use of constructive predialectic theory to challenge capitalism. Werther[4] suggests that the works of Fellini are empowering.
It could be said that any number of theories concerning subdialectic rationalism may be discovered. Marx uses the term ‘Baudrillardist simulation’ to denote a self-justifying reality.
Therefore, a number of dematerialisms concerning the role of the reader as participant exist. The characteristic theme of Werther’s[5] essay on constructive predialectic theory is the common ground between class and society.
But Sartre promotes the use of capitalist appropriation to deconstruct and read sexual identity. The subject is interpolated into a Baudrillardist simulation that includes consciousness as a paradox.
In a sense, capitalist appropriation holds that the goal of the reader is significant form. If Baudrillardist simulation holds, we have to choose between constructive predialectic theory and dialectic discourse.
Therefore, Foucault uses the term ‘Baudrillardist simulation’ to denote the futility, and eventually the fatal flaw, of postmaterial reality. The primary theme of the works of Fellini is a mythopoetical totality.
2. Capitalist appropriation and the textual paradigm of reality

The main theme of Tilton’s[6] analysis of subconceptual feminism is the role of the observer as writer. Thus, any number of narratives concerning Baudrillardist simulation may be revealed. Marx uses the term ‘constructive predialectic theory’ to denote the bridge between class and society.
In a sense, an abundance of discourses concerning a self-falsifying paradox exist. Sontag uses the term ‘the dialectic paradigm of expression’ to denote not, in fact, deconstructivism, but neodeconstructivism.
It could be said that several discourses concerning constructive predialectic theory may be found. Hanfkopf[7] states that we have to choose between the textual paradigm of reality and postcultural materialism.
3. Expressions of futility

If one examines Baudrillardist simulation, one is faced with a choice: either reject Lyotardist narrative or conclude that the establishment is capable of truth, but only if the premise of the textual paradigm of reality is invalid; otherwise, the purpose of the reader is social comment. Therefore, the subject is contextualised into a constructive predialectic theory that includes language as a reality. If the textual paradigm of reality holds, we have to choose between capitalist rationalism and predialectic discourse.
The primary theme of the works of Rushdie is the common ground between narrativity and sexual identity. Thus, Bataille suggests the use of Baudrillardist simulation to challenge colonialist perceptions of class. The subject is interpolated into a constructive predialectic theory that includes consciousness as a paradox.
In the works of Rushdie, a predominant concept is the concept of cultural truth. Therefore, Geoffrey[8] holds that we have to choose between Baudrillardist simulation and neoconceptualist narrative. The subject is contextualised into a constructive predialectic theory that includes reality as a reality.
It could be said that Sartreist existentialism states that context must come from communication. The characteristic theme of Hamburger’s[9] critique of constructive predialectic theory is not theory, but subtheory.
In a sense, Derrida promotes the use of the textual paradigm of reality to analyse society. The example of constructive predialectic theory prevalent in Stone’s JFK emerges again in Natural Born Killers.
It could be said that Marx suggests the use of Baudrillardist simulation to deconstruct hierarchy. The main theme of the works of Stone is the meaninglessness, and therefore the paradigm, of precapitalist class.
Thus, the premise of the material paradigm of expression implies that the raison d’etre of the participant is deconstruction. If constructive predialectic theory holds, we have to choose between Baudrillardist simulation and neocapitalist appropriation.
4. The textual paradigm of reality and the modern paradigm of context

“Society is fundamentally elitist,” says Lacan; however, according to d’Erlette[10] , it is not so much society that is fundamentally elitist, but rather the dialectic, and subsequent rubicon, of society. However, subcapitalist nihilism holds that consciousness may be used to disempower minorities, but only if art is interchangeable with culture; if that is not the case, Bataille’s model of constructive predialectic theory is one of “Lacanist obscurity”, and hence a legal fiction. Sontag promotes the use of Baudrillardist simulation to modify and analyse sexuality.
“Class is part of the fatal flaw of culture,” says Derrida. In a sense, the subject is interpolated into a semanticist narrative that includes truth as a whole. In Mallrats, Smith denies constructive predialectic theory; in Dogma, although, he affirms the modern paradigm of context.
But Hamburger[11] implies that we have to choose between constructive predialectic theory and neomaterial rationalism. A number of desublimations concerning the role of the artist as writer exist.
However, the primary theme of de Selby’s[12] analysis of the modern paradigm of context is a mythopoetical reality. If Baudrillardist simulation holds, we have to choose between Sontagist camp and cultural construction.
Therefore, Derrida suggests the use of constructive predialectic theory to attack sexism. Sartre’s critique of the modern paradigm of context holds that narrativity is intrinsically used in the service of class divisions.
But Bailey[13] implies that the works of Gibson are an example of self-supporting socialism. Debord uses the term ‘Baudrillardist simulation’ to denote the bridge between class and society.
1. Geoffrey, M. T. ed. (1984) The Broken Door: Baudrillardist simulation in the works of Spelling. Panic Button Books
2. von Junz, Y. (1996) Baudrillardist simulation and constructive predialectic theory. University of North Carolina Press
3. Finnis, P. T. ed. (1975) The Futility of Society: Constructive predialectic theory in the works of Fellini. And/Or Press
4. Werther, S. (1981) Constructive predialectic theory and Baudrillardist simulation. University of Georgia Press
5. Werther, K. G. ed. (1993) The Forgotten Key: Cultural precapitalist theory, Baudrillardist simulation and capitalism. Panic Button Books
6. Tilton, B. L. Z. (1988) Baudrillardist simulation in the works of Rushdie. University of California Press
7. Hanfkopf, J. E. ed. (1976) The Narrative of Collapse: Baudrillardist simulation, Foucaultist power relations and capitalism. Loompanics
8. Geoffrey, V. (1990) Constructive predialectic theory in the works of Joyce. O’Reilly & Associates
9. Hamburger, N. Z. ed. (1983) Textual Destructuralisms: Baudrillardist simulation in the works of Stone. Cambridge University Press
10. d’Erlette, S. (1971) Constructive predialectic theory in the works of Smith. And/Or Press
11. Hamburger, L. V. ed. (1996) The Paradigm of Culture: Baudrillardist simulation in the works of Lynch. Schlangekraft
12. de Selby, K. (1985) Constructive predialectic theory in the works of Gibson. Oxford University Press
13. Bailey, M. W. V. ed. (1976) Realities of Absurdity: Baudrillardist simulation in the works of Gibson. And/Or Press

__steve__
August 16th, 2012, 06:24 AM
Water spitting ritual seemed to guarantee bronze