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View Full Version : Lake Travis Relay Top Five - 10/12/12



swimthegoodfight
October 17th, 2012, 10:41 AM
As many of you might have guessed, I am a huge proponent of open water swimming and open water events.

American Swimming Association, Austin, TX, recently hosted their 9th Annual Lake Travis Relays. Can it really be the ninth swim already? Time flies...

Get more information on ASA events at http://www.americanswimmingassociation.com/


9th Annual
LAKE TRAVIS RELAY
10/13/2012, Austin, TX
DIVISION RESULTS

OPEN

Maximum Damage

B.Patten, W.Russo, E.Jones, J.Jiracek,
S.Avery, J.Smith 3:49:06

MEN 108-239

SwimStrong

C.Kemp, L.Armstrong, D.Rogers,
R.Esselstyn, T.Robertson, J.Smitheal 3:51:04

SOLO

Rory Pilgrim

Solo 4:23:19

OPEN

B Team

K.Bell, B.Bell, D.Rusk, B.Button, L.Button,
A.Henry 4:31:23

Mixed 240-299

Splash Mob

J.Martin, L.Denison, B.Peterson,
K.Chozick, R.Woltenberg, M.Cimbala 4:42:08

MickYoung
October 17th, 2012, 02:59 PM
SwimStrong


C.Kemp, L.Armstrong, D.Rogers,
R.Esselstyn, T.Robertson, J.Smitheal


3:51:04





Do you guys test for drugs?

swimthegoodfight
October 17th, 2012, 05:21 PM
no - I thought someone would catch his name eventually.

Unfortunately, he will be a polarizing figure for some time. I am still a fan.

Nevertheless Austin is a great locale for destination swims, and USMS members can work out temporary access to the Lee and Joe Jamail Swimming Center (University of Texas) with Longhorn Aquatics.

MickYoung
October 17th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Sorry. That was just mean of me.

Sounds like a great event.

E=H2O
October 18th, 2012, 12:33 AM
You were not being mean. The only time it's mean to tell the truth, is after the person speaks it first and you are just trying to rub his nose in it.

I was a big fan of the Mythical Lance. I'm not sure who the real Lance is. We have not finished peeling the onion of deception. Only after all of the truth comes out will I be able to decide what I think of the man.

Frankly I think it is shameful that he showed up. He continues in his lies even today, and hides behind the smoke screens that he pays his lawyers to create. If history tells us anything it's that when it comes to LA, we see only what he wants us to see.

chowmi
October 18th, 2012, 10:48 AM
Some fun insights! The two top relays were very competitive. Bobby was saying some of the other relay members were still calling him the following week. They were mad about something, but really, they were mad that a relay with 2 girls beat them. And one of the girls, not Eney, kept up with their ringer, supposedly some guy that is about 28ish and went a 1:31 200 free. Bobby went against Lance, and Lance beat him, but not before bumping him to make sure he knew he was coming, and then gave him "the look", whatever that is, must be a guy competitive thing, as he swam away from Bobby. Word is Lance wants to swim. Fast. And be the fittest 40+ guy on the planet. Regardless of Fina/USMS, whatever, Bobby told Lance's coach that he is welcome anytime in a meet put on by DAMM.

Now, be honest. Would YOU think about, consider doing a meet here if you knew Lance was coming!!!!

E=H2O
October 18th, 2012, 01:20 PM
Now, be honest. Would YOU think about, consider doing a meet here if you knew Lance was coming!!!!

Lance must first come forward tell the truth, apologize to the people he vilified in public, apologize to the people he intimidated through threats and lawsuits, apologize to the people whose lives he ruined, return the money he stole by filing baseless and fraudulent lawsuits. He also must make amends by taking all the money he took from sponsors through fraud, and all of the money he received as a result of his scheme to become wealthy by merging the Lance Armstrong brand with the Livestrong brand and donate it all to Livestrong. A scheme that netted him over $150,000,000.00.

And no I'm not a Lance hater. In fact I freely admit that I have always been a fan of the Myth of Lance. But I have read the USADA Reasoned Decision and about 30% of the supporting documents, including all of the affidavits. I've watched his video deposition and watched him lie so he could receive $7.5 million. I involuntarily replay over and over in my head the TV adds that netted him millions where he looks directly into the camera and tells all of us as his adoring fans that he is clean and his detractors are liars. I watched him responded to questions about his use of drugs by attacking the person who made the statement. Heck he attacked the French people as a whole saying they were just jealous because they have't won the Tour in years.

What would I do if I saw Lance in person and he continues to deny the facts? I'd call him a lier, a cheat and a fraud. Not only would I not go to see him, I would cancel any plans I had to enter the race. I'm not worried about USMS meets. I suspect that his lifetime ban is on it's way.

The measure of a man is not how he acts when he knows everyone is looking, it is how he acts when he thinks no one can see him. It's not whether he get's caught so much as how he acts when he does. It's not how he treats people when they believe everything he wants them to believe, it's how he treats them when they confront him with the truth that he's not. It's not by the things he has done right and the people he helped, but how he takes responsibility for the things he has done wrong and the people he's hurt. Lance has a long way to go in making things right. If he doesn't get started quickly he could be facing the possibility of a complete forfeiture of everything he owns, and a bit of jail time.

This is not just the story about some athlete who took performance enhancing drugs to win a few dumb bike races in Europe. It is about his character, it's about an illegal criminal conspiracy, it's about witness intimidation, it's about a financial fraud that earned him well over $150 million dollars.

Let me ask you something: how would you feel if you told the appropriate authorities that you saw a person using performance enhancing drugs and then that person comes after you? What if it turns out that the person has unlimited resources to attack you including a net worth of $125 million and as much publicity that he wants. In fact he uses both his money and his position in the community to defile you, file a lawsuit against you and publicly humiliate and defame you and your spouse? Would you go to watch him swim in a race?

Lance still has time to choose the path of redemption, but the time to make that choice is running out. If he doesn't others will choose the path to ruination for him. I hope for the sake of his family, his kids and Livestrong that he chooses that path quickly.

swimthegoodfight
October 18th, 2012, 02:57 PM
bob - you make this whole affair sound so personal.

Please don't get me wrong. I am angry, but I am also not all amused by USADA and their tactics to nail armstrong... to nail bonds... to nail clemens. Our law enforcement agencies should not behave like mobsters to nail mafioso. They should be above this behavior.

I love Sean Connery's line in the Untouchables, but that is the sort of g-men that would scare the crap out of me.

Should we think of USADA findings simply as Lance was the best cheater among a population of cheaters? What does this mean for the sport of cycling and the Tour de France? Is the indignation demonstrated by piers morgan, michael wilbon and others an act? don't all of us love a good scandal? don't all of us love to see the success story crater into james frey's a million little pieces? Should any of us care?

MickYoung
October 18th, 2012, 03:08 PM
That REALLY was mean of me. I'm more interested in hearing about a lake swim than I am about hearing (again) about about DopeStrong.

chowmi
October 18th, 2012, 03:33 PM
That REALLY was mean of me. I'm more interested in hearing about a lake swim than I am about hearing (again) about about DopeStrong.


I agree. There is already a thread just for Mr. A. and no one has yet said it, and i'll say it again - a mixed relay beat a bunch of guys who, as Bobby said even today, they are still calling him, still mad about it, and geez, how many ways can you slice and dice it that they got beat a relay with 2 very, very fast girls!!! Plus, Bobby made me laugh when I said why they were getting so competitive about it, to which he said, for the same reason you were upset you had a bad start at the A haunted hat meet, and I said, no, that's not true, it was the A lil' splashers meet, but it was funny so I guess it's fun to be so competitive even if it's not a tour de france.

The Lake Travis relay is a lot of fun. I did it once, and anyone who knows me that is far far beyond my 25 second internal clock. There is strategy based on lake level and your team. I found it very fun.

and regarding my previous post, i'd think it was interesting if anyone from the A-D list of famous/infamous people came to a local meet.

swimthegoodfight
October 18th, 2012, 03:49 PM
mick - you'll have to make a trip to austin for a swim.

I do have a pittsburgh area swim on my wish list including a trip to PNC Park. before you state do not waste your time on the pirates, do realize my astros have set the standard for failing miserably the last two seasons.

MickYoung
October 18th, 2012, 05:31 PM
I love Sean Connery's line in the Untouchables, but that is the sort of g-men that would scare the crap out of me.



One of the surviving Untouchables was infuriated by the movie. Ness was strict about upkeeping the law and this man resented his unit being portrayed as playing fast and loose with the law. (I was shocked that there was still someone alive when the movie was made.)

E=H2O
October 18th, 2012, 06:05 PM
bob - you make this whole affair sound so personal.

I think that is a fair, and actually excellent question. Let me see if I can give you a short answer (or at least short by lawyer's standards).

I have been a long time fan of the Myth of Lance. I have been following the Tour since the LeMond days. During all of those years there were questions raised what drugs people were using. Only large does of caffeine? More than that? Etc. I had no doubt that some were even used by Eddy Merx. When Lance won his first tour I was convinced he was doing something, most likely EPO which I believe was part of his cancer treatment. Was I outraged? No.

When other cyclist or the European public attacked him as a doper my thoughts were that they were all doing it. The difference with Lance is he applied the same discipline to his doping program that he did to his training, and that Dr Ferrari was the best in the world at drawing up doping programs that beat the system. Did this make me angry? No. They all doped so it was a level playing field for the most part. What I didn't realize was that due to individual physiological differences, doping helps certain athletes more than others, but let's put that aside.

What did bothered me was the way he attacked people who came forward and told the truth about what he (and they) were doing. It just didn't seem right, but I let it go because in my ignorance I didn't think it changed much. They were all in it together. When he attacked Greg Lemond I though it was wrong, mean spirited and went too far. But Greg was a public figure and could take care of himself.

I knew he had to fight to get money from an insurance company who was trying to wiggle out of paying him because the claims (which were "unproven") that he was doping. So I let that go. I also heard about his lawsuit against some british paper for printing claims he doped, and that they had to pay a settlement (which was confidential). I didn't know how it was resolved so I ignored that.

And then this summer a lot of information came out I began to realize his days were numbered. I also learned more about the way he attacked people directly, through others, in the press and in the courts. That was the point when I began to see the real Lance, and not the one he wanted me to see. Everything that came out made him look worse and he and his lawyers kept getting nastier and his attacks on people escalated. I knew this was wrong and I kept waiting for him to stop. He didn't and he continues even today. The only thing he has conceded is that is a "controversy". This really bothers me.

I read the opinion of the Federal Court case that he filed and lost this summer. It was obvious that it was an attack purely on procedural grounds and that he and his attorneys intentionally mislead the court (and the public). He continued his ridiculous attack on USADA and its process (even threatening them that they would file a lawsuit if the USADA report concluded he doped) and going so far as to pull political strings in Washington. Yep that bothered me as well.

And then the USADA opinion came out. Because I am retired I had the time to read it and a lot of the accompanying exhibits. It established that beyond a reasonable doubt that he doped. Did I care, not really. It was not news to me. What did bother me was that it proved the existence of a criminal conspiracy (along with Johann B. and Dr Ferrari) created to defraud people and organizations of millions of dollars. And what was worse it established that Lance was a mean, vengeful, narcissistic ego mania who set out to destroy everyone who tried to get in the way. This really was the last straw. I watched the video of him testifying under oath along with the parts of the videos made public of Betsy A. (who I always had my doubts about courtesy of Lance's PR machine) and his soigneur. Suddenly it all came together and I realized what was going on. This was not about a cyclist who doped to win a big race in Europe. It was so much more sinister.

I could go on and explain all of the unseemly, wrong and illegal things that were involved, but I think you catch my drift. There is so much more. In fact while I am convinced that Lance had cancer (and doped in the years before he came down with it) and that he unselfishly set up a foundation to help others, he quickly became aware that the Lance Armstrong brand was worth so much more money if it was seen by the public as part and parcel of the Livestrong brand. Lance is a lot smarter than people give credit for, and I think his decision to tie them together so closely is what he also hoped would save him if he ever got caught. So far it seems like it is working. I think he has not come out and confessed because he still believes it will be his salvation. Only time will tell. My feeling is that if Lance comes forward tells the truth, apologizes to everyone (in particular the people he personally attacked) and wrote a check to Livestrong for $100 million (his net worth isestimated to be $125 million and it is a fair guess-timate of how much he earned off the Livestrong name) we should put every thing aside. He could/should remain on the board of Livestrong. No jail time, It serves no purpose. As with Marion Jones the humiliation would be enough (jail time made no sense for her either). Of course he faces other legal claims but with the money he has left along with the over $10 million he'll make from his book, he'll do fine. I think if he does all of this he can use the rest of his life being the person he always wanted us to believe he was. Frankly, if he doesn't he faces a worst case scenario of losing everything and ending up in jail like Bernie Madoff.

Despite all of that, I didn't take any of it personally. However, I do take something personally, and that is he thinks I and others are so stupid we don't understand what really went on.

Ken Classen
October 18th, 2012, 07:46 PM
Some fun insights! The two top relays were very competitive. Bobby was saying some of the other relay members were still calling him the following week. They were mad about something, but really, they were mad that a relay with 2 girls beat them. And one of the girls, not Eney, kept up with their ringer, supposedly some guy that is about 28ish and went a 1:31 200 free. Bobby went against Lance, and Lance beat him, but not before bumping him to make sure he knew he was coming, and then gave him "the look", whatever that is, must be a guy competitive thing, as he swam away from Bobby. Word is Lance wants to swim. Fast. And be the fittest 40+ guy on the planet. Regardless of Fina/USMS, whatever, Bobby told Lance's coach that he is welcome anytime in a meet put on by DAMM.

Now, be honest. Would YOU think about, consider doing a meet here if you knew Lance was coming!!!!

One of the teams called themselves “Swimclean” don’t know if they were implying anything ;-) I know Eney is over 50 and Bobby is either 50 or almost there, if J. Smith is John Smith of Denver, he is 50. So not only did they swim two women, they swam older as well. I know many unaffiliated and non sanctioned events may want to have LA for PR purposes but I don’t think I’d want to participate or watch as it’s like saying yea we don’t care, take your low T drugs get a little EPO, treat your loyal entourage like garbage and come on out :2cents:

swimthegoodfight
October 19th, 2012, 11:52 AM
interesting reading bobswims... and UCI's upcoming decision should be good.

I do want my thread to return to the lake travis relays as its subject matter. In regard to the swim itself and swim etiquette, I recently did the 2-mile purpleswim for pancreatic cancer near baltimore, maryland AFTER the manhattan relays the day before.

at the halfway mark, i switched to breaststroke and began a VERY LAZY return swim. I had approximately five swimmers past me on the return leg AND it started to piss me off how close they swam by me. I wasn't bumped but they managed to disturb my leisurely swim. I do know they were using me to site BUT I was still pretty unamused by their proximity to me. I know we are in a competitive sport, but once a race is well underway and you swim close enough to get kicked, do not be surprised if you are.

E=H2O
October 19th, 2012, 12:30 PM
I do want my thread to return to the lake travis relays as its subject matter.

From what I've heard from people who were at the swim, it was a terrific event. Unfortunately I was told that the team that came in 2nd place acted very poorly after being beat. It sounds like people on board had the same experience.

PS: Swimthegoodfight - if you think my posts are too off topic I'll be happy to delete them

swimdaily
October 19th, 2012, 04:55 PM
I also swam this event, although I was not in the top 5 teams. I enjoyed the water conditions personally but I heard from others and from one of the organizers that conditions were rougher this year than the usual. I thought it was just a day on the lake so I was surprised to hear the water characterized as 'choppy' and rough. Thoughts from other participants?

swimthegoodfight
October 19th, 2012, 05:34 PM
no bob - please don't - we all know your enthusiasm for open water swimming.

swimdaily - lake travis is typically well-protected from winds but if you get things lining up down a 'run' it should chop up pretty good.

I have swam in the relay twice, and am swimming all five stages of the highland lakes challenge next week.

MickYoung
October 26th, 2012, 01:52 PM
mick - you'll have to make a trip to austin for a swim.



I had planned to come there for some of the Highland Lakes Swims. The 3 mile swim would have been a stretch for my training. But then, right as I got up to 3 miles at the end of September, I started having shoulder problems.

It's a shame. I was looking forward to having some of those fine Texas women swim faster than me. :)

swimmer25k
May 6th, 2013, 12:15 PM
Bobby is still pissed at me for beating his relays in both 2007 and 2008 all by myself. :banana: (Just kidding Bobby.) I'd love to race Lance the whole way one-on-one if he's up to the challenge!