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StewartACarroll
February 6th, 2013, 09:08 AM
As I have ramped up yardage I assumed I would sleep more. Unfortunately this has not been the case. I go to sleep very quickly and then between 1-3am(the last two nights it's been 2.15am) I wake up and then can't go back to sleep. I have tried using melatonin with no luck. I am very reluctant to use anything else due to its affect on my swimming. Has anyone else experienced anything similar and if so and thoughts on how to sleep? I am planning on heading to my doctor to see what they recommend.

__steve__
February 6th, 2013, 09:27 AM
Have you noticed an increase in your resting heart rate (best time to take is upon waking)?

I've also been experiencing trouble sleeping. Mine is directly related to my 2nd, but necessary job. I have found certain yoga exercises helps tremendously

StewartACarroll
February 6th, 2013, 10:52 AM
Have you noticed an increase in your resting heart rate (best time to take is upon waking)?

I've also been experiencing trouble sleeping. Mine is directly related to my 2nd, but necessary job. I have found certain yoga exercises helps tremendously

My resting heart rate has actually dropped(fairly substantially). I have also noticed I am swimming much faster at a lower heart rate also, compared to when I first got back in the pool and had attributed this to the training. I am physically very tired but just don't seem to hit the deep sleep I feel like I need.

arthur
February 6th, 2013, 11:00 AM
How long as it been since you ramped up your yardage? Your body still might be adjusting to it. Melatonin also wears off pretty quickly. A time released melatonin might work better. However, melatonin really works best for adjusted sleep schedules like shift work or jet lag. Your body should be producing enough in the middle of the night if you have a regular sleep schedule.

jim thornton
February 6th, 2013, 01:02 PM
How close to bedtime do you workout? If you practice in the evenings this, I've read, can be a bit of a problem.

I have a similar pattern, by the way. It's pretty common and likely to become more so as you age.

The best advice I can offer is to absolutely not worry about it, and don't, in any way, try to get back to sleep. If anything, try to stay awake--the paradoxical cure!

If your wife doesn't mind, perhaps you could put on the radio at very low volume. I have had great success with listening to BBC World Service in the wee hours. The soothing blather about stuff I don't care that much about interrupts my own more provocative mental chatter but without getting me in any way excited or energized. Invariably I drift back off.

I wonder if my subconscious has become an expert on the cricket scores in India?

One last thought: a sleep researcher told me that there are two kinds of (older) guys in the world--those who wake up in the middle of the night and worry about it. And those who wake up in the middle of the night and don't worry about it.

Strive to join the latter ranks!

ourswimmer
February 6th, 2013, 01:24 PM
Welcome to your mid-40s. Unless you are showing signs of overtraining (such as an elevated waking heart rate), the workouts probably are making you need more sleep but they probably are not to blame for your getting less.

Although biphasic sleep is inconvenient, it is really pretty normal. My husband just keeps a book and a little reading light by the bed, because being awake and worrying about it is much worse than being awake and taking advantage of it. He usually goes back to sleep in an hour or two, and although he is a busy professional who works out a lot his life is just flexible enough that he can manage to get enough total sleep on that method.

If you can't just roll with it, and you drink alcohol, you might try not drinking at all in the evenings. Alcohol disrupts my sleep even in quantities far smaller than would be unhealthful in any other way.

pwb
February 6th, 2013, 01:52 PM
If you can't just roll with it, and you drink alcohol, you might try not drinking at all in the evenings. Alcohol disrupts my sleep even in quantities far smaller than would be unhealthful in any other way.Alas I am closing in on making the decision to become a teetotaler for sleep reasons. Over my 40s (I'm turning 46 this year) and especially the last 2 years, I've noticed that even a single drink at night with dinner messes up my quality and quantity of sleep. The only nights I truly sleep well is when I don't drink anything ... and I start to sleep exceptionally well when I've gone a week or more without drinking alcohol. On top of that, my wife reports that the only nights I don't snore is when I don't drink and that my snoring is exponentially connected to my drinking -- one drink and she can manage to tolerate my snores, two drinks and it gets really annoying, three drinks and ... well, let's just say that I completely void the adage "happy wife = happy life."

StewartACarroll
February 6th, 2013, 01:58 PM
How close to bedtime do you workout? If you practice in the evenings this, I've read, can be a bit of a problem.

I have a similar pattern, by the way. It's pretty common and likely to become more so as you age.

The best advice I can offer is to absolutely not worry about it, and don't, in any way, try to get back to sleep. If anything, try to stay awake--the paradoxical cure!

If your wife doesn't mind, perhaps you could put on the radio at very low volume. I have had great success with listening to BBC World Service in the wee hours. The soothing blather about stuff I don't care that much about interrupts my own more provocative mental chatter but without getting me in any way excited or energized. Invariably I drift back off.

I wonder if my subconscious has become an expert on the cricket scores in India?

One last thought: a sleep researcher told me that there are two kinds of (older) guys in the world--those who wake up in the middle of the night and worry about it. And those who wake up in the middle of the night and don't worry about it.

Strive to join the latter ranks!

I am finishing my evening workouts about an hour to an hour and a half before I go to bed. My wife is a light sleeper so I dont think I will get away with the world service(however I get the point). My problem with the world service would actually be listening to the sports scores. Despite having lived in the US for 24 years I still follow many of the sports I played as a child(including cricket).

I am going to have a checkup with my doctor on Friday which will put my mind to rest on any possible health related issues. I like the dont worry part, but its difficult when I know how hard I am pushing in practice and how much more tired I am as a result of being tired, but I get the point about it being a vicious circle.

Thanks for the advice.

sickfish
February 6th, 2013, 04:24 PM
Alas I am closing in on making the decision to become a teetotaler for sleep reasons. Over my 40s (I'm turning 46 this year) and especially the last 2 years, I've noticed that even a single drink at night with dinner messes up my quality and quantity of sleep. The only nights I truly sleep well is when I don't drink anything ... and I start to sleep exceptionally well when I've gone a week or more without drinking alcohol. On top of that, my wife reports that the only nights I don't snore is when I don't drink and that my snoring is exponentially connected to my drinking -- one drink and she can manage to tolerate my snores, two drinks and it gets really annoying, three drinks and ... well, let's just say that I completely void the adage "happy wife = happy life."

I'm "only" 34, and have noticed the same thing. I'm better off having coffee before bed instead of booze, as far as the amount of sleep I'll get. Same situation with the wife, too :D

ekw
February 6th, 2013, 04:44 PM
Getting good sleep is essential for me for managing a chronic illness. I had to make a bunch of changes to my routine in order to help myself sleep well on a consistent basis. This is what I have figured out works for me. It is probably more regimented that most people need.

-I have a caffeine limit (about a travel mug of coffee or the equivalent) and curfew (10am on weekdays, 11am on weekends). :badday:
-I also try to go to bed at the same time every night (as much as possible) and get up at the same time on weekdays (weekends I allow myself an extra 90 minutes to sleep in).
-I also had to eliminate naps almost completely.
-I have two clocks in my bedroom - one is turned so that I can't see the numbers and the face of the other is covered. This was because when I couldn't sleep, I would stare at the clock and worry about it being 2am and my not being asleep.

In my case, two substantially sleepless nights trigger a red alert and I have medication to take the next night to try to knock me back on schedule.

I rarely drink (and when I do it's on days when I've completely thrown the whole sleep routine out the window) so I haven't noticed the alcohol effect other people have mentioned.

I know you travel a lot so the routine thing would probably be difficult.

jaadams1
February 6th, 2013, 05:33 PM
How close to bedtime do you workout? If you practice in the evenings this, I've read, can be a bit of a problem.

I have a similar pattern, by the way. It's pretty common and likely to become more so as you age.

The best advice I can offer is to absolutely not worry about it, and don't, in any way, try to get back to sleep. If anything, try to stay awake--the paradoxical cure!

If your wife doesn't mind, perhaps you could put on the radio at very low volume. I have had great success with listening to BBC World Service in the wee hours. The soothing blather about stuff I don't care that much about interrupts my own more provocative mental chatter but without getting me in any way excited or energized. Invariably I drift back off.

I wonder if my subconscious has become an expert on the cricket scores in India?

One last thought: a sleep researcher told me that there are two kinds of (older) guys in the world--those who wake up in the middle of the night and worry about it. And those who wake up in the middle of the night and don't worry about it.

Strive to join the latter ranks!

My workouts are pretty close to my evening bedtime, and it takes a while for me to wind down afterward. I swim from 7-9pm with the group, and then grab a soda from the quickie mart on the way home...for rehydration purposes. Believe me, the caffiene in the soda does nothing to me. I drink so much of it, that I need the concentrate version of the stuff to possibly do anything. I can drink a can of Mtn. Dew, and go to sleep very soon afterward.
The trouble really occurs with being asleep by 11pm at night, because I'm waking at 4:30am for my 5:00am start time at work. But we do what we have to do because of life...and I'd rather be tired at work so I can be happy swimming. :D ...and as long as I return with all 10 fingers in tact, it's a good day on the job. :D

orca1946
February 6th, 2013, 06:29 PM
Gong to sleep takes me about 2 hours after practice. Waking up only involves a trip to the bathroom.
I wonder if you body & brain are still adjusting to the new workouts ??

StewartACarroll
February 6th, 2013, 10:08 PM
Alas I am closing in on making the decision to become a teetotaler for sleep reasons. Over my 40s (I'm turning 46 this year) and especially the last 2 years, I've noticed that even a single drink at night with dinner messes up my quality and quantity of sleep. The only nights I truly sleep well is when I don't drink anything ... and I start to sleep exceptionally well when I've gone a week or more without drinking alcohol. On top of that, my wife reports that the only nights I don't snore is when I don't drink and that my snoring is exponentially connected to my drinking -- one drink and she can manage to tolerate my snores, two drinks and it gets really annoying, three drinks and ... well, let's just say that I completely void the adage "happy wife = happy life."

I am not teetotal but since I got back in the pool i very seldom drink anymore(maybe one in the last month). My problems do typically start with a trip to the bathroom and then the brain starts up and next thing I know I am awake.

Fresnoid
February 6th, 2013, 11:53 PM
With increased workouts, the body needs more resources to recover. Even though we don't sweat a lot in a swim workout, adequate hydration is important in recovery.

I've had some similar issues with difficulty sleeping after an early AM pee break. If you had a decent workout the previous day, drink some water and sleep will come back.

Sojerz
February 7th, 2013, 11:22 AM
How close to bedtime do you workout? If you practice in the evenings this, I've read, can be a bit of a problem.

I have a similar pattern, by the way. It's pretty common and likely to become more so as you age.

The best advice I can offer is to absolutely not worry about it, and don't, in any way, try to get back to sleep. If anything, try to stay awake--the paradoxical cure!

If your wife doesn't mind, perhaps you could put on the radio at very low volume. I have had great success with listening to BBC World Service in the wee hours. The soothing blather about stuff I don't care that much about interrupts my own more provocative mental chatter but without getting me in any way excited or energized. Invariably I drift back off.

I wonder if my subconscious has become an expert on the cricket scores in India?

One last thought: a sleep researcher told me that there are two kinds of (older) guys in the world--those who wake up in the middle of the night and worry about it. And those who wake up in the middle of the night and don't worry about it.

Strive to join the latter ranks!

I agree with Jim. If you think the radio news is to invigorating, try downloading some benign NPR podcasts to your itunes and ipod and use one ear plug to listen to one after you've found yourself awake. Wife can't hear it, your mind will stop churning, and you'll drift back to sleep. Don't pick exciting podcasts (i.e., not podcasts about sex, sports, weirdness, end of the world, terrorists, etc.); try podcast topics in engineering, science, art, literature, etc. that are soothing.

In my experience it has more to do with aging and the increased complexity of life - more responsibilities to think about - bigger families, work, $, house, etc. The last 4 years have not been easy on most. The increased training may help sleep, i think. Tea with caffine is a no-no for me and especially too much alcohol (although it may help me sometimes fall asleep) generally wakes me up in the middle of the night or very early resulting in not enough rest, lowered resistance, and an increased tendency to get sick.

tigerchik
February 8th, 2013, 10:37 PM
Have you noticed an increase in your resting heart rate (best time to take is upon waking)?

I've also been experiencing trouble sleeping. Mine is directly related to my 2nd, but necessary job. I have found certain yoga exercises helps tremendously

Would love to hear what the yoga exercises are. I have trouble sleeping sometimes too.