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View Full Version : Starts/Flip Turns = how much time saved on a 50y free/ 50 br



sok454
February 19th, 2013, 02:54 PM
So far I have yet to do a race pace 50y fr/50y br off the blocks or using flip turns for the fr. I am able to do repeats at 33-35 on fr fairly easily from push off and an open turn. What should I be looking at for a full out 50y with all the bells and whistles?
I guess my real question is how much time does the start and the flip turn save you?

Indianaman79
February 19th, 2013, 03:33 PM
that is 50% of your race - start and turn.

Allen Stark
February 19th, 2013, 03:35 PM
The start is about 2 sec.The turn will depend how fast your flip is compared to your open turn.

sok454
February 19th, 2013, 05:32 PM
Good... my goal was to be under 30 for my first race. Maybe I will adjust that a bit.

Now if I could just get my breast figured out... really need my wife to come video me at the pool!

__steve__
February 19th, 2013, 05:49 PM
that is 50% of your race - start and turn.In a 50 the start and turn is 2/3 of the race :)

swoomer
February 19th, 2013, 09:59 PM
Not to be confused with 50% of your time. I'm an older female, and there's about a 7 second disconnect between my push-off workout 50 free and workout 50 breast and race 50 free with flip and 50 race breast times. Hope his helps. Racing is always a pleasant surprise!

sok454
February 19th, 2013, 11:21 PM
busted out some backstroke repeats tonight and realized I have no idea how to do a back turn...seeing as when I was swimming at age 8-9 you only did 25 backs... I was pleasantly surprised at how fast I was able to do my 25 repeats tonight considering the fact I hadn't practiced back other than kicking on my back as a rest period. May have just added another event to my meet in 2 weeks!

__steve__
February 20th, 2013, 09:11 AM
busted out some backstroke repeats tonight and realized I have no idea how to do a back turn...seeing as when I was swimming at age 8-9 you only did 25 backs... I was pleasantly surprised at how fast I was able to do my 25 repeats tonight considering the fact I hadn't practiced back other than kicking on my back as a rest period. May have just added another event to my meet in 2 weeks!Get a pair of short fins and practice your back turns;)

ekw
February 20th, 2013, 09:27 AM
Get a pair of short fins and practice your back turns;)

It's better than a Neti pot the first few times you do it.

sok454
February 20th, 2013, 09:38 AM
Oh I can imagine... I have a feeling its going to be brutal!

knelson
February 20th, 2013, 10:48 AM
I am able to do repeats at 33-35 on fr fairly easily from push off and an open turn.

Why are you practicing with open turns?

mlabresh
February 20th, 2013, 11:14 AM
It's better than a Neti pot the first few times you do it.

Ha! No kidding. Cold and flu season is so much easier when swimming... nice clear sinuses!

ekw
February 20th, 2013, 11:35 AM
Ha! No kidding. Cold and flu season is so much easier when swimming... nice clear sinuses!

Just make sure you lead your lane. :eek: :bolt:

orca1946
February 20th, 2013, 06:26 PM
NOOO! I want to swim ahead of ol drippy sinus nose !!

mlabresh
February 20th, 2013, 08:08 PM
eeeeeww... snot bath!

aztimm
February 21st, 2013, 12:53 PM
You're doing 50 yard free on :35 intervals? There's probably only a handful of swimmers on my team (certainly not me) who can do that, and they are flip turning.
How many repeats are you doing?

sok454
February 21st, 2013, 03:39 PM
I only do in sets of 5x50. Usually 45-1min between. Now after that set I am gassed. I do have a pretty strong push off as my lower body is fairly strong/powerful.

aztimm
February 21st, 2013, 04:27 PM
I only do in sets of 5x50. Usually 45-1min between. Now after that set I am gassed. I do have a pretty strong push off as my lower body is fairly strong/powerful.

Ok, so you're doing 5 x 50 @ 1:30 or so, and holding :33 to :35 then. That's much different than I got from your OP.

knelson
February 21st, 2013, 04:30 PM
You never answered my question about why you are using open turns in practice. If you plan to do flip turns in competition you should be practicing them as much as possible.

fmracing
February 21st, 2013, 04:51 PM
If you plan to do flip turns in competition you should be practicing them as much as possible.
This ^

sok454
February 21st, 2013, 09:52 PM
I do practice my flip turns separate from my repeats. I have also begun doing them on select repeats especially when I do 75's. thanks to u mentioning I should. The first time I did them on a repeat I abut drowned as I pushed off too deep and my breathing was way off!
sorry for your confusion regarding what I meant by 50y repeats at 33-35. I'm used to track nomenclature. Ie. do 10x200 at 30 sec. W 1m rest. I am New to real competitive swimming.

mcnair
February 22nd, 2013, 11:42 AM
I do practice my flip turns separate from my repeats. I have also begun doing them on select repeats especially when I do 75's. thanks to u mentioning I should. The first time I did them on a repeat I abut drowned as I pushed off too deep and my breathing was way off!
sorry for your confusion regarding what I meant by 50y repeats at 33-35. I'm used to track nomenclature. Ie. do 10x200 at 30 sec. W 1m rest. I am New to real competitive swimming.

I just started doing flip turns last fall; flips in isolation versus flips at normal speed versus flips at sprint speed... they're all different animals. One thing I found helped me get ready for the flip turn in the context of a meet was to do hard 25, flip, cruise 25; even practice it going off the blocks for the first 25... that way you'll have a good idea of what it feels like coming into that first wall in your first meet, because that's a whole different feeling and you don't want to be bouncing off the bottom (do what I say, not what I did! ha, ha).

And Backstroke flip turns are a blast... search for some video on those on youtube or google video; it's essentially the same turn: about two strokes from the wall take your final back stroke, roll to front extending arm toward the wall, pull and flip just as you would for freestyle.

sok454
February 26th, 2013, 12:07 PM
So last night I couldn't sleep... its only 5 days till my meet and i'm already dreaming every night about it. While I was up I was looking over times from a few meets. The one I'm doing this weekend and the state meet for IL last year. What I noticed is that every first 50 is almost 1.5-3 seconds faster than the next splits. I assume this is related to starting off the blocks vs flip turns etc? That being said would one be able to assume they can easily save 1.5-2 seconds then when starting from the blocks vs in the water and a push off?

mcnair
February 26th, 2013, 12:17 PM
So last night I couldn't sleep... its only 5 days till my meet and i'm already dreaming every night about it. While I was up I was looking over times from a few meets. The one I'm doing this weekend and the state meet for IL last year. What I noticed is that every first 50 is almost 1.5-3 seconds faster than the next splits. I assume this is related to starting off the blocks vs flip turns etc? That being said would one be able to assume they can easily save 1.5-2 seconds then when starting from the blocks vs in the water and a push off?

Depends on how clean your entry is and a few other factors, but my block start gives me easily 2-3 secs advantage in the first 50, if not 3-5 secs... fast 50s for me in practice are 35-36 secs from push off, but 31-32 off the blocks; I'm a slow twitch guy, so that makes a difference I'm sure (i.e., taking longer to get up to speed off a push start).

sok454
February 26th, 2013, 02:38 PM
I would love to be able to do the workouts you do McNair... those are some impressive distances you are putting up.

mcnair
February 26th, 2013, 05:09 PM
I would love to be able to do the workouts you do McNair... those are some impressive distances you are putting up.

Well, days like today I'd trade some of that endurance for a few more fast-twitch muscle fibers...

sok454
February 26th, 2013, 05:23 PM
And I'm all fast twitch... but fast twitch doesn't help nearly as much when you are overweight by 40lbs! My endurance is horrible at the moment.