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agoodeno
February 22nd, 2013, 01:29 PM
Just wondering, when lane swimming and a faster swimmer can't for some reason go around a slower swimmer (narrow lane, busy lane, slower swimmer is in the middle of the lane, whatever), is it acceptable etiquette for the faster swimmer to pass underneath the slower swimmer? Will that freak out the slower swimmer?

Alan

knelson
February 22nd, 2013, 02:01 PM
No, I don't think that's really acceptable. If you can't get around them just turn around in the middle of the pool to get ahead of them.

msgrupp
February 22nd, 2013, 04:43 PM
You''d only have to go under the other swimmer once and freak him out. Chances are good that he'll stay out of your lane after that. Although I do like the idea mentioned in another post where 2 swimmers (swimming sides) had a 3rd person join them--the first 2 swimmers decided to do lengths of butterfly--3rd person left!

SuperChloe
February 22nd, 2013, 06:52 PM
You''d only have to go under the other swimmer once and freak him out. Chances are good that he'll stay out of your lane after that. Although I do like the idea mentioned in another post where 2 swimmers (swimming sides) had a 3rd person join them--the first 2 swimmers decided to do lengths of butterfly--3rd person left!

Unless the other person was not swimming laps at all, that's pretty rude...

Allen Stark
February 22nd, 2013, 09:54 PM
You''d only have to go under the other swimmer once and freak him out. Chances are good that he'll stay out of your lane after that. Although I do like the idea mentioned in another post where 2 swimmers (swimming sides) had a 3rd person join them--the first 2 swimmers decided to do lengths of butterfly--3rd person left!

Swimming under someone is rude,unless you have an agreement with them that it is OK.2 people swimming fly to avoid circle swimming is also rude(but their maybe extenuating circumstances in which it is the best option.)

Ripple
February 22nd, 2013, 10:08 PM
Where I live, the accepted practice is for the overtaking swimmer to tap the slower swimmer on the foot to signal intention to pass. The slower swimmer is then to pull up at the wall and let the faster one turn and go first. Otherwise, turning short of the wall might be the best option. Going underneath carries some risks.

Fresnoid
February 22nd, 2013, 11:05 PM
Just wondering, when lane swimming and a faster swimmer can't for some reason go around a slower swimmer (narrow lane, busy lane, slower swimmer is in the middle of the lane, whatever), is it acceptable etiquette for the faster swimmer to pass underneath the slower swimmer? Will that freak out the slower swimmer?

Alan

The speed difference between two swimmers would have to be huge if an underwater pass is possible. In that case, a surface pass is way easier and faster. Even if the lane is narrow, busy or the slower athlete is plugging the middle, there is always room to squeeze past if you are that much faster. A few friendly words have always eliminated this kind of problem for me "If I need to go past you, I'll tap your foot so you know what side I'm on. Don't stop. It's my job to pass without messing you up."

Fresnoid
February 22nd, 2013, 11:14 PM
Where I live, the accepted practice is for the overtaking swimmer to tap the slower swimmer on the foot to signal intention to pass. The slower swimmer is then to pull up at the wall and let the faster one turn and go first. Otherwise, turning short of the wall might be the best option. Going underneath carries some risks.

I pass, always with a foot tap but I'll berate my teammates if they stop. Don't use me as an excuse to sneak in a quick break. Even if we flip at the same time, the tap indicated which side to turn and we keep going until I'm clear and one of us slides back to the proper side for circling.

slow
February 23rd, 2013, 11:19 AM
Passing underneath someone seems very dangerous. There are so many better options to get the same result.

philoswimmer
February 23rd, 2013, 08:09 PM
Interesting comments here. In my group, people always pull to the side to let others pass (with or without foot tap). But that is very frustrating for the slower swimmer -- now they are even further behind than before! I like the idea of the faster swimmer passing, but our lanes do seem very narrow, and so perhaps that is why no one does it.

Fresnoid
February 23rd, 2013, 08:35 PM
Interesting comments here. In my group, people always pull to the side to let others pass (with or without foot tap). But that is very frustrating for the slower swimmer -- now they are even further behind than before! I like the idea of the faster swimmer passing, but our lanes do seem very narrow, and so perhaps that is why no one does it.

Most of my training is in a 6 lane 25 yard pool with narrow lanes. Since you have a group and are not just doing lap swimming with random strangers, try talking to them about it.

We're pretty good about passing without anyone having to stop. I'll usually pass down the center, with a tap on the left foot. Most people cross over the lane a bit before doing a flip turn. If I'm starting a pass close to the flags, it will be on the right, with a tap on the right foot. The team mate I'm working with will know to come off the wall close to the lane line on the right. I'm free to flip in the center without worrying about a collision, then complete the pass during the next lap.

Swimosaur
February 23rd, 2013, 08:50 PM
Old School Rules:



On the first length, tap gently on the foot. Considerate swimmers will stop at the end of the lane, move to the side, and allow you to pass on the turn.





If that doesn't work, perhaps the gentle touch was too light. On the second length, stab firmly, forcefully, and unmistakably. Considerate swimmers will stop at the end of the lane, move to the side, and allow you to pass on the turn.





If that doesn't work, on the third length, you are allowed to grab the swimmer's left ankle with your right hand, and pull hard. You will pass one very surprised slower swimmer a few tenths of a second later. Problem solved.


Of course, be absolutely sure you really are faster before trying this trick.

philoswimmer
February 23rd, 2013, 09:01 PM
Most of my training is in a 6 lane 25 yard pool with narrow lanes. Since you have a group and are not just doing lap swimming with random strangers, try talking to them about it.

We're pretty good about passing without anyone having to stop. I'll usually pass down the center, with a tap on the left foot. Most people cross over the lane a bit before doing a flip turn. If I'm starting a pass close to the flags, it will be on the right, with a tap on the right foot. The team mate I'm working with will know to come off the wall close to the lane line on the right. I'm free to flip in the center without worrying about a collision, then complete the pass during the next lap.

Hmm, I am not sure that my group is up for that. I like the idea in principle, though.

jaadams1
February 23rd, 2013, 11:11 PM
Old School Rules:



On the first length, tap gently on the foot. Considerate swimmers will stop at the end of the lane, move to the side, and allow you to pass on the turn.





If that doesn't work, perhaps the gentle touch was too light. On the second length, stab firmly, forcefully, and unmistakably. Considerate swimmers will stop at the end of the lane, move to the side, and allow you to pass on the turn.





If that doesn't work, on the third length, you are allowed to grab the swimmer's left ankle with your right hand, and pull hard. You will pass one very surprised slower swimmer a few tenths of a second later. Problem solved.


Of course, be absolutely sure you really are faster before trying this trick.

I've done this quite a few times when I was younger with my age group team, but we were all friends, and we'd "get each other" like this all the time...works great just as the guy is starting into his flipturn and you catch him 'head down butt up' and then he's dead in the water. :)
I would NEVER try this now as an adult, in a lap lane during a YMCA lap session, or other public lap lane setting. You may be able to swim faster than them, but remember, in less than 25 yards you're coming face to face again, and don't be surprised if it comes to blows at that point!

__steve__
February 24th, 2013, 09:04 AM
I'm certain I will never give up my solo practices. Too many external factors within a workout structure. My delicate sprinter frame couldn't withstand the repetitive stress anyway.

Swimosaur
February 24th, 2013, 09:38 AM
I would NEVER try this now as an adult!

Heavens no, you'd probably get sued! (Here in Tennessee, we'd dispense with the suing & get straight to the shooting ...)

The lane etiquette in the club I go to now, open 24/7, with no organized workout groups, is simple: one person to a lane. If all lanes are occupied, wait until someone gets out. You are allowed to share a lane if the first occupant agrees.

It works surprisingly well. 95% of the time there's no waiting at all, and if there is, it's usually just a couple of minutes. I get a lane to myself every time, and can do whatever strokes and intervals I please.

jaadams1
February 24th, 2013, 11:58 AM
The lane etiquette in the club I go to now, open 24/7, with no organized workout groups, is simple: one person to a lane. If all lanes are occupied, wait until someone gets out. You are allowed to share a lane if the first occupant agrees.

It works surprisingly well. 95% of the time there's no waiting at all, and if there is, it's usually just a couple of minutes. I get a lane to myself every time, and can do whatever strokes and intervals I please.
I'd like to swim there for sure. The YMCA lap swim (when I do it) is random and horrible situations at times. I don't mind splitting a lane with anyone, but when 3+ are there...oh boy :(

ElaineK
February 24th, 2013, 01:20 PM
I'm certain I will never give up my solo practices. Too many external factors within a workout structure. My delicate sprinter frame couldn't withstand the repetitive stress anyway.

The water at my community pool may be kept too warm (84 in the winter; 82 in the summer) for me, but I do have the advantage of always getting my own lane. :banana: Even the noodlers aren't a problem anymore, since I fought on behalf of ALL of the pool users to get our pool chemical imbalance problem resolved.

I am also very fortunate when I train with my coach/training partner at Steve Lundquist Aquatic Center, on Tuesdays and Thursdays. We each always get our own lane, side-by-side, right in front of the pace clock.

The downside of never having to circle swim, though, is crashing into the lane lines during warm-ups at meets, because I'm afraid to wander too close to the center of the lane. I can't remember a meet, since returning to competition, where I didn't come home with a souvenir bruise, cut, scrape, or nicked fingernail... :blush: Don't even get me started on what it's like to warm up at Nationals! :afraid:

Fresnoid
February 24th, 2013, 03:09 PM
Different question, but still related to lane etiquette. Does anybody have issues with tailgaters?

One guy who is roughly the same speed as me will always leave 3 seconds behind me and sprint the first lap to get close enough to draft. He has no interest in passing me or leading the lane and will stay on my butt whenever possible. He openly admits this is quite intentional. I don't really mind because it's quite satisfying when I can drop him. Also, when I get particularly tired and want someone else to lead, this guy will happily do so, knowing he owes me.

jaadams1
February 24th, 2013, 05:26 PM
Different question, but still related to lane etiquette. Does anybody have issues with tailgaters?

One guy who is roughly the same speed as me will always leave 3 seconds behind me and sprint the first lap to get close enough to draft. He has no interest in passing me or leading the lane and will stay on my butt whenever possible. He openly admits this is quite intentional. I don't really mind because it's quite satisfying when I can drop him. Also, when I get particularly tired and want someone else to lead, this guy will happily do so, knowing he owes me.

Next time...push off "acting like normal", but stall out underwater on the pushoff. He'll then push off racing to catch you, and run into you 5 yards off the wall.
Or just flip at the 25, find him on your butt and stop...let him go by, then ride him like he likes it. It'll stop soon.
I had a kid doing this earlier in the fall and was supposedly going 3-4 seconds faster than me on the reps when we were going some Best Average 100s. He had little endurance but had speed. I had the back half endurance to keep going almost forever at my speed. I made him go ahead of me, and a few reps later he finally conceeded the lead back to me, and then fell apart.

ourswimmer
February 24th, 2013, 07:56 PM
Different question, but still related to lane etiquette. Does anybody have issues with tailgaters?

As long as they don't interfere with my turns, I don't care. Sometimes I encourage slightly slower swimmers to "tailgate" me so that they can make an interval that is comfortable for me but tough for them (i.e., an interval they couldn't lead, or don't think they could).

Bendy
February 25th, 2013, 12:48 PM
For the first question, why would anyone even try to pass underwater? Anyhoo, seems like it would be so much easier to turn in the middle of the lane if slow poke is not getting the idea that he needs to let you pass.

The second question: I used to hate tailgaters but decided that they were just a training aid for me to get stronger and faster by hauling their lazy butts around. It's fun to change speeds once in a while just to see if they are paying attention.

knelson
February 25th, 2013, 01:04 PM
And keep in mind you aren't really pulling those tailgaters around, it just seems that way! I say unless they are constantly hitting your feet, who cares?

philoswimmer
February 25th, 2013, 04:22 PM
Admission time: I am a terrible tailgater. It's a hard habit to break. I know I shouldn't because I'm not working as hard, but... sometimes, anyway, I have an excuse. Sometimes the set is too complex for me to be an effective leader (might as well admit it rather than screw it up for everyone) and sometimes the person in front is the same speed, so that they end up tailgating me if we switch. Other times, well... let's just say it's nice to zone out and just follow the feet in front. The good news is that I never hit feet. I am a very experienced tailgater. :-)

ElaineK
February 25th, 2013, 10:23 PM
The good news is that I never hit feet. I am a very experienced tailgater. :-)

I hope that's only in the pool! I'll have to watch out for you when I come out to California for Nationals. :afraid:

philoswimmer
February 25th, 2013, 10:30 PM
I hope that's only in the pool! I'll have to watch out for you when I come out to California for Nationals. :afraid:

Ha! Yes, only in the pool. I don't like being in a car that is tailgating (whether I am driving or not) and I don't like being tailgated (in a car). I don't mind being tailgated in the pool, though, as long as I know that the person behind me is OK with the pace (I don't like to think that I am holding someone up).

tigerchik
February 25th, 2013, 10:46 PM
I wouldn't swim under someone, but my thought wasn't to do with politeness... it was "you might get kicked!"

Karl_S
February 26th, 2013, 12:10 PM
I say unless they are constantly hitting your feet, who cares?
A voice of reason!
I've often observed that when there are more than 2 or 3 swimmers in the lane, or if the swimmers have significantly different speeds, it is actually a good idea for the later swimmers to "tailgate". This maximizes the time that it takes the leader to catch the last swimmer in the lane. Years ago I swam with a group that was quite a bit faster than I. One guy in particaular screamed at me for pushing off on his tail. I always thought it he was being ridiculous. I don't think I ever touched his feet. He was well ahead of my by the end of the first 50, and that way I could finish most swims before getting caught by the leader. Some people...

aztimm
February 26th, 2013, 12:57 PM
One guy in particaular screamed at me for pushing off on his tail. I always thought it he was being ridiculous. I don't think I ever touched his feet. He was well ahead of my by the end of the first 50, and that way I could finish most swims before getting caught by the leader. Some people...

I've swum behind people like that too.
When someone tells me I'm going too close behind, I'll purposely go 6-7 seconds behind, when we're normally going 5 back. I swim to relieve stress, and I try to avoid anything in swimming that creates extra stress.

When I have a tailgater on me, I'll usually say something like, "I'm going to mix up the strokes a bit, why don't you go ahead." Mixing in a little breaststroke usually fixes the situation, and I could always use it anyway.

And to the OP, I would never advise swimming underneath someone. Well maybe in water polo, but not in a lap swim environment.

arthur
February 26th, 2013, 01:41 PM
I haven't done it in an about 3 years but I have passed a few people by going under. Only when they are extremely slow, they are in the fast lane, the pool is deep, and they waited until 1 second before I get to the wall to push off. I did my turn and a 10m underwater to get by.

ElaineK
February 26th, 2013, 02:44 PM
I have had guys swim under me in the warm-up pool at Nationals, when I am warming up for breaststroke doing breaststroke drill. It startled the :censor: out of me! I know I am slow doing breaststroke drills, but I have to warm up my legs before I swim breaststroke. There is really nothing I can do about it, besides try to pick my lane and my time at the end of the line of swimmers in the lane. But, at Nationals, there is no end of the line; the warm-up lanes are packed! :bitching:

Debugger
February 27th, 2013, 08:12 AM
I'd like to swim there for sure. The YMCA lap swim (when I do it) is random and horrible situations at times. I don't mind splitting a lane with anyone, but when 3+ are there...oh boy :(

Oh common... The pool I swim in looks worse that this one on the picture in the evenings so 3-5 I consider it's almost empty :)
7242

jaadams1
March 3rd, 2013, 03:21 PM
Oh common... The pool I swim in looks worse that this one on the picture in the evenings so 3-5 I consider it's almost empty :)
7242

3-5 I have no problem with. It's when it's 3-5 at the YMCA, when one of them is ME, and the 2-4 are water walkers, kickers, breaststrokers with long fins, and the general folk you find at a YMCA lap swim.

That is why I don't mind my 7+ in a lane at my swim team practices. Everyone knows the rules of the road, they're matched in speed, somewhat, but we can work together, and everyone's doing the same thing.

mlabresh
March 3rd, 2013, 05:22 PM
3-5 I have no problem with. It's when it's 3-5 at the YMCA, when one of them is ME, and the 2-4 are water walkers, kickers, breaststrokers with long fins, and the general folk you find at a YMCA lap swim.

That is why I don't mind my 7+ in a lane at my swim team practices. Everyone knows the rules of the road, they're matched in speed, somewhat, but we can work together, and everyone's doing the same thing.

Yes. It's so much about the environment and WHO is swimming with you! I can gladly share a lane with 3-7 age group kids and have no problem (aside from the occasional slow kid who assumes their faster than me because I'm old ;)). But swimming at our public pool is not so fun. I rarely have to circle swim (unless it's with my husband), but that's mostly because people will keep splitting and splitting lanes (with no ropes) until we can barely do any fly or breast because we're squeezed in like sardines. :bolt:

ALLISONWARE
March 4th, 2013, 11:31 AM
We have a couple of those as well...only they don't drop back very quickly. They just sort of hover there, so you're face-to-face on every flipturn. It doesn't bother me so much as makes me worry when I go to turn that I'll never be far enough over & hit them or get hit. But it hasn't happened yet...If there are specific sets where we want/need space we just emphasize the :05 between EACH swimmer.

My lane-mates tend to shove me out front when there's distance pacing work needed - they don't want to go out too fast - so I can be the guinea pig on the first few intervals. They're ALWAYS right there by the first 100 but they seem to be able to hold the right paces from then on...so it all works out in the end.

With it being spring & all the triathletes coming back to training we can get pretty packed on some days. It gets hectic with about 5-8 in a SCY lane. Luckily our paces tend to be somewhat close and/or the slower ones adjust themselves accordingly. Our lanes get nice & wide when it's LCM so we can have a middle "passing lane" that only really gets hectic if we're passing going both ways. I wasn't there, but there were apparently 10-12 in the lane yesterday swimming 400s. Ouch.

Waternixie
March 12th, 2013, 01:43 PM
I've had the problem where I've asked the faster swimmers to tap me on the foot to let me know when they want to pass me and one guy won't do it. I end up having to be aware of where he is so I don't cut him off at the wall. I'll see him coming the opposite direction and since I know how fast he is, I know when in theory he'll pass me so I stay to the right. He won't swim past, he is certainly fast and fit enough to sprint past me but he continually will draft off of me until we get to the wall, at which point, I totally have to mess up my turn to swim underneath him because he is right on my toes. I never know where he is at that point so I never know where at the wall to turn. I've asked him to tap my toes, I want to be considerate, especially since I know what it is like to be in his shoes as the fastest swimmer in a lane and not being able to pass people and I want to accomodate him. So now I just move all the way to the left after everyone ahead of me has swum past in the opposite direction and then that way I am away from the drafting maniac and won't risk a messed up turn. And he can do his turn how he wants and then zip past me on the left at the push-off.

Suggesting I move to a slower lane won't work. The pool my team works out in has such narrow lanes and only 4 lanes, that we convert them to two big lanes, so we have a fast lane and a slow lane. I am way too fast for the slow lane for that to be an option.

Redbird Alum
March 12th, 2013, 03:51 PM
As a coach I advise the kids in my lane to tap to pass at the next wall. We have a crowd at practice and there needs to be a consistant means of communicating within and among the lanes.

I periodically "mix" the leadoff swimmers in a lane to prevent the rut of always swimming behind/in front of the same people.

I also periodically reverse the circle pattern in the lanes to prevent the "habit" of always flipping the same way to achieve the same exit pattern.

habu987
March 12th, 2013, 05:46 PM
As a coach, here's what I tell the folks in the crowded lanes (usually anywhere from 5-7 more novice swimmers) to do in regards to passing:



If you're overtaking a slower swimmer in your lane, you can either overtake them in the middle of the pool or pass them on the wall
If you're overaking them in the middle of the pool and are fast enough to do so, swim around them and pass them in the middle of the pool
If you're overtaking them but don't have enough room to pass them in the middle of the pool, standard procedure is to tap them firmly once on the foot and then wait to pass them on the wall--one tap should be sufficient to signal your intent to pass them
If the one tap doesn't alert the person you intend to pass and they don't let you pass at the wall, go ahead and tap them twice on the foot
If you're the one who's being tapped on the foot, once you get to the wall, slide over to the lanerope and let the person pass you at the turn--make sure you are far enough over that you aren't blocking the middle of the wall
If you haven't been tapped, but see someone rapidly overtaking you at the wall, you can go ahead and scooch over on the wall to let them pass you, then resume swimming


For the advanced/fast swimmers, I give 'em free reign to figure out how they want to pass folks--in the middle of the pool, tapping on the foot and passing at the wall, yanking the ankle when someone is being a jerk and won't let them pass, turning around in the middle, etc. When I take off my coach hat and swim a practice, I rarely have to tap--those of us in the fast lane have been swimming together long enough that we usually have a very good sense of where everyone is in the pool, so we either pass in the middle with no fuss, or pass on the wall with minimal fuss and without having to alert the person we're passing.

I had some shoulder issues last year and spent a while kicking in streamline with fins--in that scenario, I'd pass underneath people all the time, but usually only when we were doing an IM/back set, rarely ever on free sets.

orca1946
March 12th, 2013, 10:43 PM
Our team uses the tap foot to pull off in the right corner to pass. Under water makes my friend laugh under water too much!!

knelson
March 13th, 2013, 12:26 AM
I also periodically reverse the circle pattern in the lanes to prevent the "habit" of always flipping the same way to achieve the same exit pattern.

This is a good idea. My team always does our warmup in reverse (i.e. CW circling).

robertsrobson
March 13th, 2013, 05:23 AM
You guys at least don't seem to have the problems that we have of access to pool time. At our masters session we quite commonly have 8 per lane in a 25m pool. We have to adapt and limit the reps to 50m or reduce the gap between ourselves to 3 secs.

ALLISONWARE
March 15th, 2013, 10:32 AM
I WISH I could get some of the cads that swim with us occasionally to leave 3 seconds between us! Even if there are only a few people in the lane & the set is such that lapping/passing won't be an issue...there's a few that are still RIGHTTHERE when I'm turning. My only go-to has become the middle-of-the-lane-flipturn that creates a bit of a brushback (like the inside pitch in baseball for the plate crowders)....it only marginally works. I get it when the lane is packed or when lapping might be an issue....but drafting is not an artform.

I was on deck watching a couple of the triathletes earlier this week & made them leave a few seconds in between themselves. Magically their sets of 50's got tougher. Made one guy a little snippy. I said "it's swim practice, not drafting practice!"

dolu
March 15th, 2013, 11:12 AM
in my last two work-outs (start at 6 am) we were two in one lane. Olympic conditions :banana:

orca1946
March 15th, 2013, 12:03 PM
Never tried reverse! I will try to work this into a practice. I suspect many crashes!!!

ekw
March 15th, 2013, 12:11 PM
I WISH I could get some of the cads that swim with us occasionally to leave 3 seconds between us! Even if there are only a few people in the lane & the set is such that lapping/passing won't be an issue...there's a few that are still RIGHTTHERE when I'm turning. My only go-to has become the middle-of-the-lane-flipturn that creates a bit of a brushback (like the inside pitch in baseball for the plate crowders)....it only marginally works. I get it when the lane is packed or when lapping might be an issue....but drafting is not an artform.

I was on deck watching a couple of the triathletes earlier this week & made them leave a few seconds in between themselves. Magically their sets of 50's got tougher. Made one guy a little snippy. I said "it's swim practice, not drafting practice!"

:applaud: for the use of the word cads (great word, underutilized in the US)
:applaud: for the brushback/inside pitch analogy
:applaud: for the snippy rejoinder (it would have come to me too late)

I have to admit that while I'd love to have real coached workouts, it is nice only have to (at worst) split a lane.

pmccoy
March 15th, 2013, 12:28 PM
This is a good idea. My team always does our warmup in reverse (i.e. CW circling).I need to do this (even though I almost always warm up in my own lane). I recently learned to do a back->breast turn but I can only do it when touching the wall with my left hand extended. I suspect it is because I'm used to doing ccw circling and have adjusted my flip to accommodate that.

As for tailgating, I'm horribly spoiled. There are typically only 3-5 of us working out in 3-4 lanes. I usually get my own lane for most of a practice. When we do share lanes, everyone is really good about putting the fastest first and if there is any doubt, we just go 10 seconds back. Everyone is roughly the same ability so lapping is never a real problem. That said, we do 1k-2k sets where we intentionally draft. Each swimmer takes 200 yards up front swimming hard while everyone else hangs on in the draft. After 200 yards, the front swimmer drops off and rejoins at the back while #2 takes the lead. After swimming hard for a while and then drafting behind 5 others, you can't help but tap an ankle or toe every once in a while. The real problem is the flip turns. With a close draft, the first swimmer can get out of the way easily by flipping in the middle of the lane while the second swimmer is still in the right half of the lane. But the second swimmer doesn't have a lot of time to cut over to the middle to get out of the way of the third swimmer. The problem compounds itself down the line. I wouldn't want to do a whole practice like that.