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roncollins
March 13th, 2013, 12:16 PM
Hi, all. You guys are some of the people I respect most.

As "race directors", we can find an alternate insurance coverage. But can we somehow be able to be recognized events by USMS? That way, we can hold OW events that are listed on the calendar. And, why has the Tampa Bay Marathon Swim been taken off the USMS calendar? We're not going to be sanctioned by USMS, but we're going to make an announcement soon regarding the alternate sanctioning. There are events for Barbados and Bermuda listed, and they can't even be considered for USMS sanctioning.

Chris Stevenson
March 13th, 2013, 01:36 PM
But can we somehow be able to be recognized events by USMS? That way, we can hold OW events that are listed on the calendar. And, why has the Tampa Bay Marathon Swim been taken off the USMS calendar? We're not going to be sanctioned by USMS, but we're going to make an announcement soon regarding the alternate sanctioning.

Hey Ron,

I am much more familiar with recognition of pool events: they agree to follow USMS rules (and a few other caveats) but open it to non-members, and the times of USMS members are eligible for USMS purposes. I am not familiar with recognition for OW events or why that would be important, maybe someone else here can enlighten both of us.

Have you requested the event be put on the calendar? If you go here:

http://www.usms.org/comp/sanction/request.php

it looks to me like it is possible for an event to be displayed on the calendar even if not sanctioned or recognized. I know for sanction/recognition it goes thru your LMSC's sanction chair, I don't know about calendar requests, which would also include things like clinics.

Possibly people might say that this is a USMS resource that is reserved for USMS events; that decision would be above my pay-grade.

I know on our LMSC's calendar (http://www.vaswim.org/upcoming-events/) (which I maintain), the policy is that nearby non-USMS OW events are displayed unless they "compete" with (ie are on the same day as) a nearby sanctioned event. My theory is that having a calendar with a full slate of local OW events, even if unsanctioned, serves our members well; I get requests about nearby OW events otherwise, since we usually only have 2 sanctioned OW events per summer.

Hope to see you in Richmond soon.

matysekj
March 13th, 2013, 03:04 PM
Hi Ron,

There is no such thing as a recognized open water event in the USMS Rule Book. Open water events are either sanctioned by a USMS LMSC, sanctioned by another FINA governing body, or not sanctioned.

For your event, you submitted a sanction request that was ultimately denied, so that is why the event is not showing on our calendar. You can certainly submit a request for calendar listing for the event as a non-sanctioned event, and the LMSC sanctions chair is the one responsible for approving or denying such requests as Chris described.

Rob Copeland
March 13th, 2013, 03:29 PM
Ron,

Masters used to have an event category called recognized events, but I think is different than what you are suggesting. Recognized events were swum in accordance with USMS rules and and regulations, and USMS insurance was in place for its members.

What I think you are looking for is recognition for events that have their own insurance and may or may not comply with USMS rules and regulations. Right?

Iím asking for this clarification because Iím trying to craft rules and policy changes to go into effect in 2014, and I want to make sure whatever is proposed is what the marketplace is looking for.

And the following is off the top of my head, so please donít hold me to my assumptions, they may be incorrect. We currently donít have any policy prohibiting non-sanctioned events from posting on the forum Event Announcements and Reviews. And we let the LMSCís decide their own policy on approving non-sanctions events on the calendar of events.

One of the issues we struggle with is the balance between informing our members about opportunities and providing value to sanctioned event hosts. How do we preserve the value of access to USMS members for sanctioned event host?

Another issue that has popped up is the issue of potential liability. By recognizing an event it may be implied that USMS is somehow giving its seal of approval. So how intrusive should USMS be with due diligence to ensure that event will be conducted in a safe and appropriate manner?

roncollins
March 13th, 2013, 04:50 PM
I'll be there in June for a week, Chris. But you've been training elsewhere when I've been in town.

roncollins
March 13th, 2013, 04:54 PM
OK, Jim, I should bring you up to date. The Tampa Bay Marathon Swim was on the USMS calendar prior to March 1st. It was listed as a sanctioned event because we were granted under the old rules. The sanction was pulled, so was the listing at USMS.org on the calendar, yet other unsanctioned events are listed.

Rob Copeland
March 13th, 2013, 05:21 PM
OK, Jim, I should bring you up to date. The Tampa Bay Marathon Swim was on the USMS calendar prior to March 1st. It was listed as a sanctioned event because we were granted under the old rules. The sanction was pulled, so was the listing at USMS.org on the calendar, yet other unsanctioned events are listed.Ron,
Let me see what if anything I can do to get you back on the list.

matysekj
March 13th, 2013, 11:17 PM
Yes, it's very easy to get back on the list. All I'm saying is that you need to submit a NEW request for a calendar listing for your event. That's it. The LMSC sanctions chair will review that request and likely approve it and your event will then appear on the calendar. The formerly sanctioned event no longer exists in our system since the sanction was removed.

evmo
March 13th, 2013, 11:31 PM
Ron, I would be curious what percentage of your "leads" actually come from the USMS calendar. So, of the 10-20 solo swimmers and a few relays, how many of them initially learned of the swim from the calendar. I could be wrong, but my guess is your turnout for this swim - which is one of only a few like it in the U.S., and well known by virtually all marathon swimmers - would be unaffected by whether it is listed in the USMS calendar.

freestyle7819
March 14th, 2013, 01:55 PM
Hi folks been reading your threads and find them very interesting. I am a member of the USAT taskforce for Aquabike events within a Triathlon (Swim/bike). I proposed to the COO of USAT that he talk to the USMS CEO on possible joint discussions about Open water waves within sanctioned Triathlons. Many Triathlon directors have already instituted the Aquabike event and some are in discussions about Open water swim waves only. Since they already have the overhead for open water swims it does make sense and could possibly open up more events across the country to open water enthusiasts. There has to be a win/win situation here for USAT and USMS as organizations.
I am now a USMS member and will be competing in my first competitive swim meet in over 30 years at the NE Masters Championships at Harvard. I wanted to improve my swim performance in my Tri's and Aquabike event but also found the thought of competing again in pool swimming events enticing. I know there has to be many like me doing Tri's that could become members of USMS. Just some thoughts.