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ekw
June 10th, 2013, 10:38 AM
He's the youngest US swimmer to go pro. Phelps was 15 when he went pro, but at that point he was already an Olympian.


http://swimswam.com/michael-andrew-14-years-old-explains-going-pro-video-interview/
http://swimswam.com/michael-andrew-turns-pro-youngest-in-us-swimming-history/

smontanaro
June 10th, 2013, 10:47 AM
Hopefully someone in his entourage is testing the supplement he's endorsing. Not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with it, but supplement manufacturers have been know to use banned substances...

sunruh
June 10th, 2013, 03:33 PM
Hopefully someone in his entourage is testing the supplement he's endorsing. Not saying there's necessarily anything wrong with it, but supplement manufacturers have been know to use banned substances...

and not only caught, but prevented from being on an olympic team!

TooPro
June 10th, 2013, 05:14 PM
and not only caught, but prevented from being on an olympic team!


Andrew hasn’t been fourteen long. His birthday was April 18th, and just last weekend in Iowa City he became the fastest 13-14 year old over the 50 meter freestyle in American history with a 23.47. That’s the 11th National Age Group (NAG) Record he holds, and he’s broken 32 NAG Records since he started making waves in the pool.


Im not sure why but I seriously feel as if one of the best swimmers whose come across our team we not 23.27 no idea why, I'll check it upup

arthur
June 11th, 2013, 01:29 AM
In general I don't think top athletes should delay going pro, but he isn't a top athlete yet. Hopefully in a few years. I wish him the best but there are a few things from the interview and article that kind of stood out:

1. His coach is his dad so he doesn't train with a team.
2. He and his sister are named Michael and Michaela.
3. He has a parrot named Rio, the 2016 summer Olympic host.
4. He said he is going pro to help spread the word of our lord.

It will be hard to qualify in the 50 free at 17, but if he can keep improving he has a good chance at the 100 free relay at least, if not more events.

ekw
June 11th, 2013, 09:40 AM
and not only caught, but prevented from being on an olympic team!

Jessica Hardy has some words on this situation via Twitter:
https://twitter.com/swimhardy/status/344074103508049920
"Is this a joke? (Ps there is no such thing as "certified to be safe" according to WADA/USADA)"

I try not to judge other people's parenting and I genuinely wish the kid the best, but the whole thing gives me the heebie jeebies.

knelson
June 11th, 2013, 10:12 AM
I try not to judge other people's parenting and I genuinely wish the kid the best, but the whole thing gives me the heebie jeebies.

Ditto. Just a few too many red flags.

sunruh
June 11th, 2013, 10:55 AM
Jessica Hardy has some words on this situation via Twitter:
https://twitter.com/swimhardy/status/344074103508049920
"Is this a joke? (Ps there is no such thing as "certified to be safe" according to WADA/USADA)"


exactly what i was talking about.

Allen Stark
June 11th, 2013, 04:09 PM
This has so many problems.I'm fine that he is home schooled.Our youngest was home schooled and that was what we thought was best for her.In Oregon anyway a home schooled kid can compete for the local high school if they want.I don't have a problem with race pace training,it's what I do(or will again when my shoulder gets better.)What I have a problem with is the total lack of a plan B.This kid is good,at 14.He is also big for his age.How much is he going to improve.It is basically Olympics or bust for him now.What if he gets to be the 4th best swimmer in the country and has a bad Olympic Trials and finishes 7th.If he took a traditional route he'd have club,HS and college success.This way,what,is he a failure?

smontanaro
June 11th, 2013, 05:03 PM
I'm uncomfortable with it as well, but he's not shut out of college, he just can't swim for his college team. If his sponsorship money is well-managed, he won't have to worry about paying for college either.

ElaineK
June 11th, 2013, 05:06 PM
Ditto to all of the above expressed opinions.

As for #4, just like (we should have) in separation of church and state, can we please also have separation of church and sport? PLEASE???

The Fortress
June 11th, 2013, 06:01 PM
4. He said he is going pro to help spread the word of our lord.


Ugh! I agree with Elaine. This will cause me to root against him.

gobears
June 11th, 2013, 09:05 PM
Ugh! I agree with Elaine. This will cause me to root against him.

If he's totally sheltered by homeschooling, dad coaching and the evangelical sub-culture, it might be really interesting to see what happens when he gets exposed to the bigger world outside his little bubble... Does seem a bit creepy the way it's all being told here.

ALM
June 11th, 2013, 10:14 PM
Here are some earlier articles about Michael Andrew:

Life as a phenom swimmer in rural Lawrence
April 21, 2013
by Chad Lawhorn
The Lawrence Journal-World
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2013/apr/21/lawhorns-lawrence-life-phenom-swimmer-rural-lawren/


13-year-old swimmer already drawing comparisons to Michael Phelps
April 20, 2012
the Associated Press
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20120420/michael-andrew-swimming-phenom/#ixzz2Vxq1621c

sunruh
June 12th, 2013, 08:43 AM
the big problem is that for as good as he is an an age group swimmer, he is not on the big scene yet.
and by that i mean he hasn't been to USNats. it is a bit different to be NAGR and such than it is to walk into the ready room of the finals of your event and look around the room and go...."hmmm that's the current world record holder right there and next to him is the former world record holder. and both are my idols. and i am racing against them in about 10min in the finals."
the kid says he likes pressure, he hasnt had any pressure. he may now that mom and dad are riding his coattails.
its very clear the kid won the genetic lotto. 6'4" at turning 14. holy growth spurts batman! sure he will improve, but its not so easy to make that top 16 and more so the top 8 at USNats. all of the men this boy will be racing against are just as big if not bigger, have more muscle, and some have as many years of experience at that level as he is years old. 3 old men from my city just swam at a tuneup meet this last weekend in the events he's in. the 49.55 by RickyB and 50.25 by DaxH and even the 50.69 by GarrettWG. right there is 3 of the 7 that can make a team. the kid (as good as he is and i wish him the best) has a ways to go!

lefty
June 12th, 2013, 11:05 AM
I really doubt that he is getting more than $10K from the supplement company. But you are right he should be fine financially because, when he becomes an adult, he can sue his parents for doing this to him. This whole story stinks.

jroddin
June 12th, 2013, 11:10 AM
So who is more impressive as an age grouper: Michael Andrew or Chas Morton? I believe Chas Morton still holds NAG records from the early 80s. Even his backstroke swims (with the old turn) are still way up there in the Top 100.

JimRude
June 12th, 2013, 11:52 AM
Ugh! I agree with Elaine. This will cause me to root against him.

LOL.

sunruh
June 12th, 2013, 03:35 PM
So who is more impressive as an age grouper: Michael Andrew or Chas Morton? I believe Chas Morton still holds NAG records from the early 80s. Even his backstroke swims (with the old turn) are still way up there in the Top 100.

I VOTE Chas Morton.

want to know why?

because he broke MY record in 11-12 100m fly that was a 1.03.81 and lasted for 2 years.
the record i broke was P. Oswangy and was set 3 months before i was born.

in the last 47 years only 3 have held that record.

but i dont know if that is impressive as jessie vassallo's 1500m record from '76 still being there.

but i'm also pretty darn proud to say i was the head timer for this WR swim:

GUTHRIE David


USA

02:32.55

11-08-2012

ande
June 20th, 2013, 01:23 PM
He's the youngest US swimmer to go pro. Phelps was 15 when he went pro, but at that point he was already an Olympian.
http://swimswam.com/michael-andrew-14-years-old-explains-going-pro-video-interview/
http://swimswam.com/michael-andrew-turns-pro-youngest-in-us-swimming-history/

Michael is remarkable, 23.47 50 LCM fr at just turned 14 is incredible. He keeps improving and shows no signs of that stopping.
I'm concerned with him going pro at 14. Unless the terms of his P2Life contract are incredible, why not just wait?
Wait until he has even more ability and to the point that he is an obvious serious olympic contender.
Wait until until his potential endorsement earnings would be much greater than a 4 year full ride to Stanford Cal or UT

I'm curious to see how much faster, bigger and stronger he gets,
If you look his times up on the USA Swimming Swims Data base
http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1470&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US
you can see his 50's are awesome, he's better short course than long course.
His 50's are better than his 100's
his 200's are worse than his 100's

He does race pace speed based training. Doesn't seem like he's built a base.
Hopefully going pro will prove to be a wise choice.
Times will tell.

ande
June 20th, 2013, 01:59 PM
I VOTE Chas Morton.
want to know why?
because he broke MY record in 11-12 100m fly that was a 1.03.81 and lasted for 2 years.
the record i broke was P. Oswangy and was set 3 months before i was born.
in the last 47 years only 3 have held that record.
but i dont know if that is impressive as jessie vassallo's 1500m record from '76 still being there.
but i'm also pretty darn proud to say i was the head timer for this WR swim:

GUTHRIE David


USA

02:32.55

11-08-2012



Chas' 100m FL 58.74 from 1983 was is and is remarkable

here's links to

Age Group NRs
http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1480&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US

All time Top 100
http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1487&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en

some age grouper break records in one or 2 ages, some break records their whole way up like Ryan Murphy.

Note: Kim Kardashian's ex Kris Humphries still holds the 10 & under 50 free LCM

27.71 - Kris Humphries, 1995

Frank Thompson
June 21st, 2013, 01:03 PM
Note: Kim Kardashian's ex Kris Humphries still holds the 10 & under 50 free LCM

27.71 - Kris Humphries, 1995[/QUOTE]

I don't think this record is going to last the year and I predict it will go down by the end of the summer to Winn Aung. Read about what he is doing here. http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/USA/34727.asp?q=Winn-Aung-Resets-10-and-Under-National-Age-Group-Record-in-100-Freestyle

Chas Morton is considered by many including myself to be the greatest age-group swimmer ever especially in the 10 under, 11-12, and 13-14. He held records in every stroke and every distance in 10 under and 11-12 age groups. He set over 60 national age group records. His record production went down a little in the 13-14 age group and in the 15-16 and 17-18, I believe Michael Phelps held more age group records but just in those 2 age groups. As great as Chas was a lot of swimmers caught up with him in the NCAA and the Olympic Trials.

He was a great swimmer for Stanford but at the time Stanford was just loaded with great swimmers like Jeff Rouse, John Witchell, Alex Kostich, Jay Mortensen, and Ray Carey. He was on a lot of NCAA Championship teams and contributed to scoring for them every year. He was recruited the same year as Janet Evans in 1989 and 3 previous years to this you could say he was the better swimmer but not in 1989. I think he retired after the 1992 Olympic Trials.

I remember going to a U of Michigan meet against Stanford in 1990 and seeing Chas swim against Erik Namsnik and Eric Wunderlich and being soundly beaten. The whole point of this is just because you are a great age group swimmer, it does not translate to being a future Olympian. Chas placed top 6 in 3 out of 4 years in the NCAA and won the 200 Breast at USA Nationals and was a great swimmer in his own right, he just never made it to the Olympics.

The only good I can see out of Andrew turning PRO is if he has the improvement he thinks he can get, it will open up other companies and sponsors like this one to take a chance on swimmer of his talent. What is interesting is I have not seen any press statement about why P2 signed him and what they expect out of his potential. P2 is a fairly new USMS sponsor and the owner and founder (Tim Shead) is one of best swimmers in USMS in the 60-64 age group and set many World Records last year. Perhaps because he has South African roots, he may have known Andrew's parents and perhaps that is how the relationship started. This is a first for this type of company because companies like Amino Vital and Hammer have never done something like this.

When Speedo signed Phelps to his historic contract, they stated what he would be doing and the incentives that they would provide like if he won 7 gold medals in 2004, he would receive 1 million dollars for that effort. It didn't happen in 2004 but did in 2008 plus 1. I don't expect P2 to do something like that but they have been rather silent about what they expect. Its a gamble but both parties are willing to take that gamble.

By the way, I think this kid is not just the youngest male, but the youngest swimmer ever to turn professional. I believe Anita Nall and Katie Hoff were older than this and I can't remember any swimmer just turning 14 and not even reaching high school doing this. Anita Nall I believe was the first after the 1992 Olympics and she just turned 16. I believe Katie Hoff was just turning 16 when she made the decision and it was right after the 2005 World Championships.

jroddin
June 21st, 2013, 01:03 PM
Chas' 100m FL 58.74 from 1983 was is and is remarkable

here's links to

Age Group NRs
http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1480&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en-US

All time Top 100
http://www.usaswimming.org/DesktopDefault.aspx?TabId=1487&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en

Thanks for those links, Ande. Chas Morton still has the 11-12 100y fly and 200y IM records from 1984 (and he wasn't much slower than Ryan Murphy in the 100y back and he had to do the old flip turn). Since he is still in the Top 100 in every single event, I looked to see if there were any older times above him. Taking more time than I care to admit, the best I can tell Chas Morton had NAG records in every single 11-12 scy event but one (50 breast, he missed it by .03). I wonder if he still swims?

sunruh
June 21st, 2013, 01:49 PM
i keep getting moved farther and farther down the list. at #77 now. funny how the time has changed (0.01 slower now) and my team or lmsc has changed as well. at least it still shows 1979. and Oswangy isnt on the list any more which is kinda sad.
if you look at the 13-14 200 fly, i'm ahead of chas...neener neener.
i'm all the way back at #15 now and he's at #24. for almost 2 decades it had been Fili (a good friend), me and chris rives at the top of the list. but all these young guns and body suits and jammers have pushed us back.

arthur
June 21st, 2013, 02:47 PM
There is a SI article defending Michael and his family for going pro: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/more/news/20130611/michael-andrew-youngest-us-swimmer-to-go-pro/

It also has some interesting info about how he trains. Apparently he almost never swims more than 50m continuously which probably explains why he is best at short events.

The paper his dad based his training from is here: http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/energy39.pdf
A 2 page overview of the program can be read here: http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/ultra40a.pdf

Midas
June 22nd, 2013, 05:59 PM
I get why he's turning pro (no college trains the way he does, and he won't be able to fit into that type of system). His approach to training seems to be the bigger story to me. Impossible to know for sure if he would have more or less success with a traditional training program, but he's certainly having a ton of success with pure ultra-short race pace training. Fort, I would think you'd love this kid for his training method no matter what else he wants to use his "fame" to preach.

Frank Thompson
June 24th, 2013, 01:03 PM
Note: Kim Kardashian's ex Kris Humphries still holds the 10 & under 50 free LCM

27.71 - Kris Humphries, 1995

I don't think this record is going to last the year and I predict it will go down by the end of the summer to Winn Aung. Read about what he is doing here. http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/USA/34727.asp?q=Winn-Aung-Resets-10-and-Under-National-Age-Group-Record-in-100-Freestyle

He got it. http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/USA/34789.asp?q=Winn-Aung-Tracks-Down-Another-Kris-Humphries-National-Age-Group-Mark

The Fortress
June 24th, 2013, 02:33 PM
Impossible to know for sure if he would have more or less success with a traditional training program, but he's certainly having a ton of success with pure ultra-short race pace training. Fort, I would think you'd love this kid for his training method no matter what else he wants to use his "fame" to preach.

I don't do ultra short training. I'll occasionally do an ultra set like 30 x (12.5 AFAP + 12.5 EZ kick w/fins) @ :30. But generally, I focus on high intensity/race pace training with maximum rest. The ultra rest intervals are fairly short. Now, I'm all for something different than just grinding out yardage and it's possible that the ultra short sets, which do focus on the aerobic energy system, could replace conventional aerobic sets. And who really needs to do lactate tolerance sets? :bolt:

I've been watching track nationals and there is much talk of "god" as well. I wish they'd just stick to discussing the training that got them there.

ElaineK
June 24th, 2013, 03:04 PM
I've been watching track nationals and there is much talk of "god" as well. I wish they'd just stick to discussing the training that got them there.

Agreed! It has become THE thing in all sports, these days- and, one of the things that drives me away from watching many sports interviews on TV (especially Tim Tebow).

smontanaro
June 24th, 2013, 03:41 PM
That's another thing I like about hockey. Not a whole lot of turning the other cheek going on. :-)

(That said, I'm no fan of the fighting.)

nhc
June 24th, 2013, 05:17 PM
May God help him. :cool:

pwb
June 24th, 2013, 06:07 PM
Agreed! It has become THE thing in all sports, these days- and, one of the things that drives me away from watching many sports interviews on TV (especially Tim Tebow).just once I would like to see a sports star harangue god for not supporting them when they lose.

gobears
June 24th, 2013, 06:14 PM
just once I would like to see a sports star harangue god for not supporting them when they lose.

lol. Because sports performances must be a high priority when there are (low priority) starving children in the world...

ElaineK
June 24th, 2013, 09:44 PM
just once I would like to see a sports star harangue god for not supporting them when they lose.

:lmao:That's EXACTLY what my husband keeps saying! I couldn't agree more...

Lump
June 24th, 2013, 11:34 PM
I remember going to a U of Michigan meet against Stanford in 1990 and seeing Chas swim against Erik Namsnik and Eric Wunderlich and being soundly beaten. The whole point of this is just because you are a great age group swimmer, it does not translate to being a future Olympian. Chas placed top 6 in 3 out of 4 years in the NCAA and won the 200 Breast at USA Nationals and was a great swimmer in his own right, he just never made it to the Olympics.


Chas was a GREAT swimmer. He's actually on my Facebook and doing well with a beautiful family. I remember being at some of the same meet and being in awe of him, especially when we were young teens. I swam with Wunderlich at Dynamo here in Atlanta and his name caught my attention in your post. Wunderlich was also could have been a GREAT distance swimmer. He was up until he started specializing in breastroke.

Some of the other age group "freaks" I remember is Leif Winnerstrom, Tripp Schwenk, and Joey Hudepohl.

aloha
June 25th, 2013, 08:40 PM
why do you people care if athletes speak about God, or Jesus? why would something like this bother you? do you think Tim Tebow or Kurt Warner care what you think? starving children have absolutely nothing to do with their faith. just because they outwardly thank God doesnt mean that they or God dont care about starving children.

why does the mention of God outside of a church function offend people? has zero to do with you.

I am not a super Christian but i certainly have no issue with folks voicing their faith.

all you tough internet assassins - go voice your displeasure regarding this to their face in person. dont hide behind your keyboards.

do you folks feel big ripping on this kid and his family?

he is a swimmer. hes just a kid.

Chris Stevenson
June 25th, 2013, 09:01 PM
Wunderlich could have been a GREAT distance swimmer. He was up until he started specializing in breastroke.

I have to feel sorry for any swimmer who has to choose between being a breaststroker or a distance swimmer.

gobears
June 25th, 2013, 09:31 PM
@ aloha - I hardly think my comment qualifies me as a "tough internet assassin." Speaking as a former die-hard evangelical, I have come to realize over the years just how crazy it sounds to many people when you use your sports platform as a place to preach. It comes off as arrogant and silly, really. As if the God these people believe in is invested in imbuing these athletes with spectacular athletic ability so they can preach to the world, while he/she is not managing to do anything about millions of starving children. If you don't understand how obnoxious that is, I don't know what to tell you.

aloha
June 25th, 2013, 09:45 PM
again, why do you care that this kid and/or his family use his platform (if thats what you want to call it) to preach (did the kid preach to you in that interview?)? does that honestly bother you? does Tim Tebow bother you? really? all the nonsense going on in this world and this stuff bothers you? if you dont care for Tebows "platform" dont listen or watch it. quite simple actually.

you used the words arrogant, silly, obnoxious. mighty big of you.

and exactly what are you doing to feed the millions of starving children of the planet?

__steve__
June 26th, 2013, 06:24 AM
Has anybody seen Time Bandits?

Forum Moderator
June 26th, 2013, 08:39 AM
May I suggest that we unhijack this thread and return to discussing “Michael Andrew goes pro at 14”.

If you wish to get into a theological debate, please re-read our forum rules before you start a thread about religious observances.

Thank You
Rob Copeland

Fresnoid
June 26th, 2013, 09:51 AM
I have to feel sorry for any swimmer who has to choose between being a breaststroker or a distance swimmer.

Choosing to be a breaststroker is like choosing to be gay -no such thing, you're born that way.






Hey Rob, how's that for a threadjacking? :anim_coffee:

Fresnoid
June 26th, 2013, 10:03 AM
May I suggest that we unhijack this thread and return to discussing “Michael Andrew goes pro at 14”.

If you wish to get into a theological debate, please re-read our forum rules before you start a thread about religious observances.

Thank You
Rob Copeland

I wonder, as others already mentioned, how much money can this one sponsorship really be? Also, how much value can Andrews be to the sponsor? No one has heard of him outside the swimming community and even then not all of us. I would never have heard of him outside this board.

knelson
June 26th, 2013, 10:27 AM
If you look at the psych sheet for the World Champs trials meet going on this week in Minneapolis you'll notice that Michael Andrew is not swimming. This is because he has not achieved any of the time standards yet. So I agree with the others who have mentioned that he's great (for his age), but he's not at the elite level in the sport yet. It seems very premature for him to go pro right now.

sunruh
June 26th, 2013, 12:03 PM
B I N G O!!!

i did not go to world champ trails at age 14. because they were not that year! but i did at age 15. i remember it very vividly.
sitting in the stands for finals (nope didnt make consoles either) and watching Craig B. put a whooping on the field and set a new WR.
i also vividly remember saying to myself how someday i was race against him. took almost 2 more years.
nowadays, i dearly look forwards to seeing Beards at convention in the Swim Across America booth and the two of us old, fat guys, chatting and having a beer in the evenings talking about butterfly.

lefty
June 26th, 2013, 04:13 PM
If I formerly held a NAG record I would probably bring it up 3-4 times in one thread too : )

ekw
June 26th, 2013, 05:19 PM
If you look at the psych sheet for the World Champs trials meet going on this week in Minneapolis you'll notice that Michael Andrew is not swimming. This is because he has not achieved any of the time standards yet. So I agree with the others who have mentioned that he's great (for his age), but he's not at the elite level in the sport yet. It seems very premature for him to go pro right now.

It also seems premature from a financial standpoint. Suppose he has a massive breakout year this year and storms on the the world scene. He's already given up his college eligibility so he's not going to get a Speedo contract like Katie Hoff's that includes college tuition, etc. It seems like waiting might have been more prudent. :dunno:

knelson
June 26th, 2013, 05:29 PM
He's already given up his college eligibility so he's not going to get a Speedo contract like Katie Hoff's that includes college tuition, etc.

Why not?

ekw
June 26th, 2013, 05:36 PM
Why not?

Wasn't the tuition portion of the contract part of the incentive to get her to give up her eligibility? I could be remembering things wrong. He certainly could still get a Speedo contract, but it seems like he'd have one less bargaining chip.

knelson
June 26th, 2013, 05:49 PM
OK, I see what you're saying now. I don't remember Hoff's deal, but you probably remember correctly.

ekw
June 26th, 2013, 10:05 PM
OK, I see what you're saying now. I don't remember Hoff's deal, but you probably remember correctly.

Found it: http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=2288849
10 year deal with Speedo paying her college tuition

sunruh
June 27th, 2013, 09:38 AM
It also seems premature from a financial standpoint. Suppose he has a massive breakout year this year and storms on the the world scene.

you have to look at it from 2 aspects: kids and sponsors.

sponsors are thinking this could be the next phelps lets get in at the beginning and ride the kid to the top

kid is thinking i am the next phelps and i am going to ride the sponsors to the top