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jroddin
June 18th, 2013, 11:24 AM
Every now and then I have been asked about dates for future USMS Nationals. Here are the dates for the meets currently on the calendar:

May 1-4, 2014 Spring Nationals: Santa Clara, CA
August 13-17, 2014 Summer Nationals: University of Maryland College Park
April 23-26, 2015 Spring Nationals: San Antonio, TX
August 6-9, 2015 Summer Nationals: SPIRE Institute, Ohio

Hosts for 2016 will be solicited and awarded next year.

Jeff Roddin
USMS Championship Committee Chair

PatrickJM
June 19th, 2013, 07:33 PM
"August 13-17, 2014 Summer Nationals: University of Maryland College Park"

Jeff -I've seen the 4-day order or events from the USMS rule book, but seeing this is now a 5 day meet, is there a different order of events or the same but just the 1500 free on Wednesday?

jroddin
June 20th, 2013, 03:06 PM
"August 13-17, 2014 Summer Nationals: University of Maryland College Park"

Jeff -I've seen the 4-day order or events from the USMS rule book, but seeing this is now a 5 day meet, is there a different order of events or the same but just the 1500 free on Wednesday?

It will be a different order of events, but it will be loosely based on the 4 day format in the rulebook. The official order of events for this meet is expected to be approved at convention (mid September). The 800 and 1500 are expected to be on separate days.

Jeff

tjrpatt
June 27th, 2013, 04:08 PM
The 800 and 1500 are expected to be on separate days.

Jeff

:bow: I am glad that you guys might be doing this. Mission Viejo is doing but I can't get to CA in August because I am out of shape.

orca1946
July 5th, 2013, 01:05 AM
I like san antonio - great river walk & drinks. I will be at the top of my age group there.
I would prefer to wait till I'm the new kid on the block in 3 years!

jackback
July 5th, 2013, 07:29 PM
where in san antonio will the meet be?

barryf
July 6th, 2013, 03:50 PM
where in san antonio will the meet be?

From their bid:

Northside Independent School District Aquatic Center
Our proposed venue, its National Aquatics Center and Natatorium, is a world-class facility located in San
Antonio, one of the nationís premier tourist destinations. Located just minutes from the beautiful Texas
Hill Country, Six Flags Fiesta Texas and the Shops at La Cantera, the Center is a short drive from the San
Antonio International Airport and some of the finest hotels and resorts in the region. Championship
participants will find a wide variety of restaurants and hotel properties near the facilities.

jackback
July 6th, 2013, 06:03 PM
so the city has been picked but the venue is still up in the air ? it looks like northside is an outdoor pool. i could not find the "national aquatics center and natatorium"

barryf
July 6th, 2013, 07:13 PM
so the city has been picked but the venue is still up in the air ? it looks like northside is an outdoor pool. i could not find the "national aquatics center and natatorium"

They have the ability to run four scy course along with a warmup pool. Check out these websites:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/education/article/NISD-Bexar-County-open-aquatic-center-4637003.php

http://www.kens5.com/news/Northside-ISD-opens-massive-aquatic-facility-213540611.html

https://www.teamunify.com/SubTabGeneric.jsp?team=stnisd&_stabid_=33012

jroddin
July 8th, 2013, 01:28 PM
so the city has been picked but the venue is still up in the air ? it looks like northside is an outdoor pool. i could not find the "national aquatics center and natatorium"

The outdoor 50m pool can accommodate 18-20 lanes for competition (two courses) while an additional outdoor pool (diving well) could accommodate 10 lanes (13-17 feet depth). The indoor pool can be setup to have two 8 lane course plus 6 warm up lanes. Finally, there is another outdoor teach pool with 3 25y lanes. Total available lanes is ~57 (22 + 22 + 10 + 3). We'll either have more than two courses available for the meet or we'll have a ton of warm up space (a rarity for masters nationals).

Jeff

thewookiee
July 8th, 2013, 01:38 PM
When will the decision be made to run the meet indoors or outdoors?

ElaineK
July 8th, 2013, 09:22 PM
When will the decision be made to run the meet indoors or outdoors?

Good question! San Antonio can be VERY hot and humid in spring; I know, because I lived there for four years. And, I know for you, it's racing backstroke outdoors; something I'm not looking forward to during the backstroke leg of my 400 IM, at Mission Viejo!

jroddin
July 9th, 2013, 03:43 PM
When will the decision be made to run the meet indoors or outdoors?

The day after you enter all of the backstroke events... ;)

Just kidding. I expect the outdoor pool (the one that just opened a week or two ago) to be the primary course. Most likely the indoor pool would only be used for contingency purposes. Since the courses would not be deemed equivalent, it could be possible to have men and women swim separately. That is, we don't want the situation to have one heat of a men's age group swimming one event outdoors while another heat of this same age group swimming the same event indoors. I like the flexibility of this complex since we have no idea how many swimmers will enter until the entry deadline. If the meet is "normal" size we can have tons of warm up space. If the meet is huge, we can make use of the extra capacity to keep the session timelines reasonable.

Jeff

thewookiee
July 10th, 2013, 07:37 AM
Jeff, thanks for the information. If the meet is going to be outdoors, I will pass.

jackback
July 10th, 2013, 12:47 PM
yea, an outdoor scy meet would be a lot less appealing.

Britt03
July 11th, 2013, 12:25 PM
if the meet is outdoors - sign me up! so much more fun swimming outdoors than indoors!

ElaineK
July 11th, 2013, 12:30 PM
if the meet is outdoors - sign me up! so much more fun swimming outdoors than indoors!

That's because you aren't a backstroker like Wookiee!

thewookiee
July 11th, 2013, 01:12 PM
That's because you aren't a backstroker like Wookiee!

Actually, Britt is a real good backstroker, based on her times. But, I will still pass on an outdoor meet.

ElaineK
July 11th, 2013, 02:02 PM
Actually, Britt is a real good backstroker, based on her times. But, I will still pass on an outdoor meet.

Sure; she's great at EVERYTHING she swims. But, have you seen her breaststroke? :bow:

Britt03
July 11th, 2013, 02:46 PM
Sure; she's great at EVERYTHING she swims. But, have you seen her breaststroke? :bow:

then you haven't seen my backstroke yet :bolt:
swimming for suntan U for 3 years teaches you how to swim backstroke straight with your eyes closed.

Chris Stevenson
July 11th, 2013, 07:49 PM
if the meet is outdoors - sign me up! so much more fun swimming outdoors than indoors!


That's because you aren't a backstroker like Wookiee!

I also like outdoor meets even though I am a backstroker. Heck, if you know how to swim straight then it give you an advantage over those other wusses.

For me one of the main joys of being a backstroker is when you get to swim outdoors, it is the only stroke that allows you to really appreciate being outside.

ElaineK
July 11th, 2013, 10:57 PM
I also like outdoor meets even though I am a backstroker. Heck, if you know how to swim straight then it give you an advantage over those other wusses.

For me one of the main joys of being a backstroker is when you get to swim outdoors, it is the only stroke that allows you to really appreciate being outside.

The only way I can swim backstroke outside is watching and concentrating on my arms, rather than focusing on anything beyond them (or closing my eyes). I have Meniere's, an inner ear disorder. So, if there are no clouds or anything to focus on, I get dizzy and start feeling seasick. (Meniere's is also the reason I can no longer do flip turns without getting seasick!).

orca1946
July 11th, 2013, 11:27 PM
OK this is WAY TOOO early, where is 2016 ?? Do they have that listed yet?

Britt03
July 12th, 2013, 08:24 AM
I also like outdoor meets even though I am a backstroker. Heck, if you know how to swim straight then it give you an advantage over those other wusses.

For me one of the main joys of being a backstroker is when you get to swim outdoors, it is the only stroke that allows you to really appreciate being outside.

swimming outdoors as a backstroker = perfect stomach tan time.
My first outdoor practice this season, I swam 4,500 yards backstroke. yep, all backstroke. I wanted to get my stomach a good base tan. Who cares about practice if you can focus on getting tan?? :banana:

PatrickJM
October 22nd, 2013, 07:21 PM
Any word on the 5-day schedule? There's a few longer events I'd like to try depending how close they are to backstroke events, and training starts soon.

jroddin
October 24th, 2013, 12:54 PM
Any word on the 5-day schedule? There's a few longer events I'd like to try depending how close they are to backstroke events, and training starts soon.

The Rules Committee needs to ratify the Order of Events for Maryland (special 5-day format). We expect an answer sometime next week. I will post here once it is official.

Jeff Roddin
USMS Championship Committee

Coach Susan
October 25th, 2013, 07:37 PM
As to the 2015 San Antonio Spring Nationals, we plan on a 4 day format. We still need the Championship Committee's approval of our Order of Events, but it will closely follow what was set forth in the Rule Book. There will be a slight change because, we will use 3 pools at the same time, we are able to offer the 1000 and 1650 on separate days. More details will be presented next year.

orca1946
October 31st, 2013, 02:48 PM
# pools? I have never seen that. It must run the meet really fast.
What do you do with odd heat numbers, start them 1st. so that you can end up with 3 pools in the last running?

jroddin
November 1st, 2013, 01:29 PM
The order of events for 2014 Marriott USMS Summer Nationals in College Park, Maryland is listed below. NQTs will be available close to the New Year.


Day 1 Wednesday:
Mixed 1500 freestyle

Day 2 Thursday:
200 butterfly
50 breaststroke
100 freestyle
Mixed 800 freestyle

Day 3 Friday:
400 IM
30 minute break
50 backstroke
200 freestyle
100 breaststroke
200 freestyle relays

Day 4 Saturday
100 butterfly
50 freestyle
200 backstroke
200 mixed free relay
200 mixed medley relay
400 freestyle (both)

Day 5 Sunday
200 medley relays
100 backstroke
200 IM
50 butterfly
200 breaststroke


Jeff Roddin
USMS Championship Committee

orca1946
November 1st, 2013, 02:12 PM
I like this order for my events - if I get the Q times???

jroddin
November 1st, 2013, 02:44 PM
# pools? I have never seen that. It must run the meet really fast.
What do you do with odd heat numbers, start them 1st. so that you can end up with 3 pools in the last running?

They wouldn't be running 3 courses of the same event at the same time. They would likely have two courses of the same event in one 50m pool while having one course of a different event in another pool. For instance, two courses of the men's 500 free outside with one course of the women's 400 IM inside. I hope that clarify things.

thewookiee
November 1st, 2013, 03:11 PM
women's 400 IM free inside. I hope that clarify things.

Not really. Is the women's 400 IM free a new event? Does this mean that women don't have to pay for swimming the 400 IM inside? Please clarify this for the men.

mmlr38
November 3rd, 2013, 01:24 PM
Thanks for posting the order of events Jeff!

Since the 1500 and 800 are on separate days, does that mean swimmers can do both events like in Mission Viejo? It's really unfortunate for us distance swimmers to have to sacrifice one of our events at nationals when there are really only 3 events (400, 800 and 1500) in which we're competitive!

jroddin
November 4th, 2013, 09:43 AM
Thanks for posting the order of events Jeff!

Since the 1500 and 800 are on separate days, does that mean swimmers can do both events like in Mission Viejo? It's really unfortunate for us distance swimmers to have to sacrifice one of our events at nationals when there are really only 3 events (400, 800 and 1500) in which we're competitive!

That option will be highly unlikely only having a single 8 lane competition course and a meet expected to be even larger than Mission Viejo. In Mission Viejo the finish time on Wednesday (1500 day) was 10:10pm and the finish time on Friday (800 day) was 7:22pm. Those session lengths are very difficult to staff while also not really being good conditions for competition for the swimmers.

Jeff

orca1946
November 4th, 2013, 11:35 AM
Thanx Jay. That makes good sense using different events. I did not even think of that. Now I need to get healthy to try for Q times.!

mmlr38
November 4th, 2013, 08:28 PM
That option will be highly unlikely only having a single 8 lane competition course and a meet expected to be even larger than Mission Viejo. In Mission Viejo the finish time on Wednesday (1500 day) was 10:10pm and the finish time on Friday (800 day) was 7:22pm. Those session lengths are very difficult to staff while also not really being good conditions for competition for the swimmers.

Jeff
Thanks for the reply Jeff. I completely understand about the staffing. And also the conditions for competition; yes, swimming at 10pm really wasn't ideal, but it's better than not swimming at all! Really the 1500 and 800 are the only events in which I'm somewhat competitive. The 400 is marginal and the 200 is tough. Eliminating one of those as an option really stinks. Perhaps some sort of contingency could be made like in Mission Viejo, only more strict, for the distance events? Such as having NQTs for both events? Or perhaps staffing late for those events should be considered when awarding nationals to bidders? Having the ability to swim both events at nationals really makes all the difference for someone like me.

jroddin
November 5th, 2013, 12:20 PM
Thanks for the reply Jeff. I completely understand about the staffing. And also the conditions for competition; yes, swimming at 10pm really wasn't ideal, but it's better than not swimming at all! Really the 1500 and 800 are the only events in which I'm somewhat competitive. The 400 is marginal and the 200 is tough. Eliminating one of those as an option really stinks. Perhaps some sort of contingency could be made like in Mission Viejo, only more strict, for the distance events? Such as having NQTs for both events? Or perhaps staffing late for those events should be considered when awarding nationals to bidders? Having the ability to swim both events at nationals really makes all the difference for someone like me.

It was discussed to limit participation in the 800 and 1500 to only those who make NQTs in both in order to allow swimmers to enter both, however, that is not permitted in the USMS rulebook so the idea was dismissed.

It is very difficult finding bidders, let alone finding bidders with 10 lane pools, multiple competition courses, excess staffing resources, etc. For this particular Nationals we are fortunate the host is able to accommodate a 5-day format.

Masters Nationals is unique in its ability to accommodate all swimmers (anybody may swim up to 3 events plus 4 relays without meeting qual times). It is unfortunate for some Nationals that swimmers may not swim both distance events, but on the other hand if the meet were more exclusive there would be many others who wouldn't get to swim any events at all. Reasonable people may disagree on the all-inclusive policy but that is the present system.

Jeff

mmlr38
November 5th, 2013, 02:26 PM
I very much like the fact that USMS is so inclusive, so I'd really not like to see that change. But on the other hand, as I have seen mentioned somewhere, nationals is a once-a-year event in which people have a chance to swim against strong competition. Perhaps still allowing 3 events and 4 relays without NQTs but require NQTs for both the 800 and 1500 should be considered if it allows for distance specialists to enter both events? I am guessing it is challenging to make changes to the USMS rulebook? People without NQTs can probably find events other than nationals at which to compete in those two distance events. I really don't want to make the meet too exclusive, but as a distance swimmer, it really does stink to have one of three events (1500, 800 and 400 are the only "distance" events) eliminated.

I didn't realize that finding bidders to accommodate nationals was such a challenge. That certainly would rule out imposing additional requirements on bidders.

jpetyk
November 7th, 2013, 09:43 AM
People without NQTs can probably find events other than nationals at which to compete in those two distance events. . Some parts of the country are very active and have many Masters meets. Others, are not. If I am going to have to travel, pay for hotels, etc., I would much rather do so at a National meet, than some other meet that would have me swimming 6 events in 3 hours. I agree that it stinks that distance swimmers have to choose between one event or the other, but for some of us, the Nationals events are the only option to compete.

mmlr38
November 7th, 2013, 11:23 AM
I would much rather do so at a National meet, than some other meet that would have me swimming 6 events in 3 hours.
That's a very good point jpetyk. But it seems that in most cases, there is only one (maybe two) distance event offered at any local Masters meet. And if someone really wants to get a good time in their distance event, they won't be swimming 5 other events. Seems to me that saving those 5 other events for nationals and swimming the distance event at the local meet would make the most sense.

Allen Stark
November 7th, 2013, 02:28 PM
I don't have a solution,but I don't think both the 1500 and 800 should be NQT only events.If one prefers distance free events,but is not able to make NQTs ,should that person have none of there favorite events to swim?

knelson
November 7th, 2013, 05:23 PM
The way I look at it is, if you swim the 1500, you've automatically got an 800 swim thrown in for good measure!

Really I've never thought it was a huge deal when swimmers need to pick one or the other of the distance events (but I can understand why some would). The scheduling of all the events means lots of people have to sacrifice one event in favor of another due to being back-to-back, etc. I guess the difference is they still have the option to swim both. They just might choose not to due to scheduling.

mmlr38
November 8th, 2013, 02:08 PM
I don't have a solution,but I don't think both the 1500 and 800 should be NQT only events.If one prefers distance free events,but is not able to make NQTs ,should that person have none of there favorite events to swim?
That's a very good point Allen. I hadn't really thought about it from the perspective of someone who likes swimming distance events, but is not able to make NQTs.

knelson
November 8th, 2013, 03:57 PM
That's a very good point Allen. I hadn't really thought about it from the perspective of someone who likes swimming distance events, but is not able to make NQTs.

I think a decent compromise would be to say you've got to make both NQTs in order to swim both events. You could still swim one or the other without making the cuts.

mmlr38
November 11th, 2013, 11:37 AM
I think a decent compromise would be to say you've got to make both NQTs in order to swim both events. You could still swim one or the other without making the cuts.
I think that was how things were handled at Mission Viejo and I personally think it worked out well, though I didn't realize how hard it was to staff those late sessions. And Jeff mentioned it is unlikely that this will be an option this year because of only one competition pool and the extremely high number of swimmers expected. At Misison Viejo, yes the meet went a little late on Wednesday (1500 day) and Friday (800 day), but part of the reason for the very late day on Friday was the extremely unfortunate event that added about an hour to the timeline. Swimming at 7pm or 8pm isn't ideal, but assuming getting staff was possible, I'd prefer to have the option of swimming both the 1500 and 800 over not swimming one of them at all.

orca1946
November 11th, 2013, 03:40 PM
I don't think you should be able to swim both if no NQT times are made.