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pwb
November 21st, 2013, 09:32 AM
http://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/lane9/news/ASCAEducation/36777.asp?q=Science-of-Performance%3A-Shaving-Year-Round-for-Swimmers%3F

OK, Masters guys, who's going to start shaving year-round?

sunruh
November 21st, 2013, 09:48 AM
since i am short and fat and almost as furry as a wookie you can call me an Ewok.
shave all year?
oh heck no!!!
the in growns on my chest and legs hurt so bad as it is just shaving for nats.
when i did the reshave for the 400 free after 2 days off in italy the bathwater turned pink.
not having to shave was probably the #2 biggest reason i loved the supersuits (you have to say it in the voice of Frozone from The Incredibles..."Honey, where is my supersuit?")

knelson
November 21st, 2013, 09:57 AM
Mullen definitely makes some good points. I've always thought swimming has been too focused on the once or twice a year "peaking" thing. Why shouldn't we be able to swim fast all year? And I think many of us are so used to doing it this way we're actually afraid to shave or wear a tech suit at a non-taper meet. It's like we'll use up our mojo or something!

By the way, That Guy shaves for just about every meet. I don't think he's taken it to the extreme of shaving in between meets, but he uses the theory of supercompensation to swim fast times at (ideally) every meet rather than put all his eggs in one basket and swim fast only at a couple taper meets per year.

Rob Copeland
November 21st, 2013, 11:22 AM
when i did the reshave for the 400 free after 2 days off in italy the bathwater turned pink.Maybe if you shaved every week, you would get good enough at it to eliminate the literal blood bath.

And while Mullen raises good points, I’m not sure how many times I can play the “Honey, will you shave my back” card before my wife lets the blade slip and severs my spine.

thewookiee
November 21st, 2013, 12:41 PM
As long as it takes me to shave, forget it.

sunruh
November 21st, 2013, 01:12 PM
As long as it takes me to shave, forget it.

3+ hrs *WITH* clippers....i laugh at the thought of not using them.

and then some lucky person get the back job. lol

thewookiee
November 21st, 2013, 01:15 PM
3+ hrs *WITH* clippers....i laugh at the thought of not using them.

and then some lucky person get the back job. lol

3 hours? Psssh. I would have to clip for a day or so before I would start the razor and shaving cream. There isn't a masters meet worth that much troube.

I would also have to have at least 3 clippers. One or two would always overheat.

joel schmaltz
November 21st, 2013, 01:21 PM
For what is worth, I only have the opportunity to swim in four maybe five meets each year. I shave down for everyone of them. I figure I need to take advantage of my invested work.

__steve__
November 21st, 2013, 01:35 PM
I shave for every meet indeed! If I'm going to shave I'm also going to wear something really fast. Doesn't make sense to do one and not the other.

Just don't wear a fast suit hairy unless your extremely wealthy. That would be like racing a dragster with 4 for 3 tires from pep boys.

mmlr38
November 21st, 2013, 02:52 PM
I've never shaved. Does shaving really make you faster? I can't imagine that it would have any significant impact for those of us without a lot of hair, and from what I've read that seems to be supported by data. But perhaps it does help a bit?

thewookiee
November 21st, 2013, 04:00 PM
I've never shaved. Does shaving really make you faster? I can't imagine that it would have any significant impact for those of us without a lot of hair, and from what I've read that seems to be supported by data. But perhaps it does help a bit?

Screw data reports. I have first hand experience. Shaved, I can swim a lot faster in both meets and practice. You gain a new feel for the water by removing old skin for one. Two, those of us with hair, esp. on the body and legs, do have extra anchors. The hair does cause people to slow down when present.

People without much hair may not be affected as much when they shave. Maybe they do gain a mental boost though. People with a lot of hair can see a big difference from shaved to unshaved. Mine might have been part mental but the 2nd 100 of a 200 fly always seemed easier shaved.

pwb
November 21st, 2013, 04:06 PM
Screw data reports. I have first hand experience. I'm no wookiee when it comes to hair, but I like the emotional high you get from the slippery smooth feeling diving in after shaving (and the extra sting of energy produced by the cuts). As swimming fast has a lot to do with your mental state, I think shaving has a greater attitude boost than physical boost. Even with that, the tech suit era taught us all how even minor reduction in drag could translate to greater speeds, so I'll keep shaving for big meets.

So far, though, I've not yet shaved my back as a Masters swimmer; I'm saving that for when I need to increase the amp to 11.

Allen Stark
November 21st, 2013, 04:55 PM
I've never shaved. Does shaving really make you faster? I can't imagine that it would have any significant impact for those of us without a lot of hair, and from what I've read that seems to be supported by data. But perhaps it does help a bit?

What data do you have that shaving doesn't make a difference.It does.It makes at least 1 sec/100 for me.

__steve__
November 21st, 2013, 05:10 PM
Referring to Ernest Maglischo's Swimming Fastest (I love this book), swimmers believe the time improvement from shaving can range from 0.5 to 2 seconds per 100m. He also quoted a study on the before and after effects of shaving suggesting a significant drop in blood lactate levels and stroke lengths compared to the control. Another test was done to confirm the results were directly related to the reduction of frictional drag and nothing more.


Maglischo, Ernest, W. 2003. Frictional Drag. Swimming Fastest, the essential reference on technique, training, and program design, 60-64 Champaign, IL: Human Kinetics. The study he presented is in: Sharp, R.L. and D.L. Costill. 1989. Influence of body hair removal on physiological responses during breaststroke swimming. Medicine and Science in Sports and Exercise 21 (5), 576-580


Just time yourself before and after shaving to see.

Karl_S
November 21st, 2013, 05:46 PM
"1 s per 100" blah blah blah - does anyone every shave and NOT taper? I though so. So how do you know the 1s was from shaving and not from tapering? Furthermore, for those of us who are fuzz-impaired, there really isn't much "magic speedy sensation" after shaving.

knelson
November 21st, 2013, 06:13 PM
So how do you know the 1s was from shaving and not from tapering?

I think this is true. It's difficult to know how much of the improvement is coming from shaving and how much from tapering, but I do know that doing both very often produces the effect I desire. I often can drop two seconds per hundred.

Allen Stark
November 21st, 2013, 06:24 PM
"1 s per 100" blah blah blah - does anyone every shave and NOT taper? I though so. So how do you know the 1s was from shaving and not from tapering? Furthermore, for those of us who are fuzz-impaired, there really isn't much "magic speedy sensation" after shaving.

I have shaved without tapering when I wanted a good in season time without messing up my training schedule. Thats where I got the 1 sec/100. Another confirmation was,back in the techsuit era, I didn't get the same "shave and taper"time drop in my taper meet compared to an in season time in a techsuit.

aztimm
November 21st, 2013, 11:16 PM
I've never shaved. Does shaving really make you faster? I can't imagine that it would have any significant impact for those of us without a lot of hair, and from what I've read that seems to be supported by data. But perhaps it does help a bit?

I only shaved once. I did 2 meets, both in the same pool, about 2 months apart. Tapered for both. My times for the non-shave meet were better than the one I shaved for.

Considering all the drama involved with it, and the time involved, I've never done it since. And my times have only gotten faster :)

I'd rather spend the time actually swimming, or stretching...anything productive.

Allen Stark
November 22nd, 2013, 01:24 AM
If you don't sacrifice your hair to the god of speed, you can't swim fast!

__steve__
November 22nd, 2013, 11:17 AM
And that's a fact worth at least one second per 100

mmlr38
November 22nd, 2013, 12:05 PM
What data do you have that shaving doesn't make a difference.It does.It makes at least 1 sec/100 for me.
I don't recall the article I read now. I think was a scientific article with hard data and controlled experiments. I do recall that after reading it, I decided it wasn't likely worth the time and effort to shave.

I only shaved once. I did 2 meets, both in the same pool, about 2 months apart. Tapered for both. My times for the non-shave meet were better than the one I shaved for.


Considering all the drama involved with it, and the time involved, I've never done it since. And my times have only gotten faster


I'd rather spend the time actually swimming, or stretching...anything productive.
That's how I've viewed shaving since entering the sport a couple of years ago. But maybe I'll have to do a controlled experiment of my own. The problem is that there are so many variables in swimming that it will likely be difficult to get definitive results.

jaadams1
November 22nd, 2013, 03:53 PM
3 hours? Psssh. I would have to clip for a day or so before I would start the razor and shaving cream. There isn't a masters meet worth that much troube.

I would also have to have at least 3 clippers. One or two would always overheat.Have you tried a hedge trimmer, or maybe a chainsaw??

thewookiee
November 22nd, 2013, 03:59 PM
Have you tried a hedge trimmer, or maybe a chainsaw??

They ended up smoking up as well.

flystorms
November 27th, 2013, 11:27 AM
OMG this is the funnies thread out there! Thanks for the laughs!!

That Guy
November 27th, 2013, 06:50 PM
By the way, That Guy shaves for just about every meet. he uses the theory of supercompensation to swim fast times at (ideally) every meet rather than put all his eggs in one basket and swim fast only at a couple taper meets per year.

Yep.


"1 s per 100" blah blah blah - does anyone every shave and NOT taper?

Yep.

ande
December 9th, 2013, 01:22 PM
since i am short and fat and almost as furry as a wookie you can call me an Ewok.
shave all year?
oh heck no!!!
the in growns on my chest and legs hurt so bad as it is just shaving for nats.
when i did the reshave for the 400 free after 2 days off in italy the bathwater turned pink.
not having to shave was probably the #2 biggest reason i loved the supersuits (you have to say it in the voice of Frozone from The Incredibles..."Honey, where is my supersuit?")

since shaving's such a problem
Let's take a collection for Steve to WAX year round.
Maybe do a kickstarter.

Aymese
December 9th, 2013, 06:48 PM
Long gone are my days of not shaving for the season! :eeew: Although I do have fond memories of girls' team bleaching parties! If I attend a big meet like nats I could fathom shaving my arms :)

orca1946
December 10th, 2013, 12:04 PM
I shave my beard every other day. I only shave down for Nats.

Chris Stevenson
December 17th, 2013, 03:05 PM
So the "traditional" strategy is to shave the night before the meet starts, or even the morning of the meet.

It occurs to me that it might be a good strategy to shave for the last 2-3 days of taper. You'd probably get a substantial psychological boost from going fast in the last couple of practices going into the meet and it would save you some time the night before, when you should be resting. Even if you want to re-shave the night before, that takes much less time than doing the initial shave.

I think I'll try that next spring or summer.

jim thornton
December 20th, 2013, 09:31 AM
http://www.swimmingscience.net/2013/07/does-shaving-improve-swim-performance.html

Evidence that it does help, though somewhat modestly. I agree with the wookie here--the fuzzier you are in your natural state, the more improvement you're likely to see in the deplilated morph. I can see the difference even in the shower! When my Austin Powers-like chestal hair is in full regalia, water seeps down my abdomen like a spring trickling through a wooded thicket. When the hair is gone, frantic little cascading rivulets flow like flash floods down my gravid-appearing belly. Think of a fine camel's hair jacket of body hair as serving roughly the same purpose of ground cover that prevents soil erosion by slowing run off. In fact, I would be willing to suggest that if Speedo and Tyr could make special hairsuits for training, they could prove popular with even the smoothest, most porcelain-skinned women swimmers.

Swimosaur
December 20th, 2013, 02:59 PM
http://forums.usms.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=8185&d=1387569372

ElaineK
April 14th, 2014, 10:13 PM
Hey guys!

I just saw a TV ad for the Gillette Body razor. Perhaps this will make the job a bit easier for you. I found a link to a $3 off coupon on their website: http://www.gillette.com/en/us/promotions/gillette-coupons.aspx

As for the ad I saw, it seemed to work just fine for the guy with the 6-pack abs! :cheerleader:

Water Rat
April 15th, 2014, 10:06 AM
since i am short and fat and almost as furry as a wookie you can call me an Ewok.
shave all year?
oh heck no!!!Steve, I've definitely noticed I'm less hairy as I age. The hair doesn't seem to grow back like it used too. Maybe you just need more practice? Of course, it could be that it's just grayer than before and appears invisible to my deteriorating vision too.

orca1946
April 15th, 2014, 04:42 PM
NOOOO ! TOOOOOO much work !!!!

__steve__
April 15th, 2014, 04:53 PM
Not too long ago I looked good after a shave-down. Then the vegetation turned grey and the topography started eroding

secondheart
April 15th, 2014, 05:33 PM
I only shave down once or twice a year throughout my swimming career. For me shaving is part of the mental process for a big meet. Re-shaving doesn't have that same mental impact

greenjeans11
April 25th, 2014, 02:39 PM
Laughing. I'm a female who hasn't shaved in 35 years. Guys talking about shaving gets me giggling. What I hated was scratchy, stubbly legs as it grew out. I respect your devotion to speedy swimming.


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