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View Full Version : Who is doing/teaching this?



rtodd
December 5th, 2013, 08:44 PM
http://youtu.be/_2Xar-q_agA

pwb
December 6th, 2013, 01:07 AM
One of my daughters did that turn in their first 100 IM. It didn't look all smooth and fast like that kid in the video made it look.

rxleakem
December 6th, 2013, 07:08 AM
I think I would smash my ankles if I attempted that turn at full speed :toohurt:

pmccoy
December 6th, 2013, 09:49 AM
I tried this out this morning. Never could make fly work. It's kind of hard to time everything right and be confident I wasn't going to plant my ankle into the pool deck. I did make it work with breaststroke but I doubt it looked anything close to the efficiency on the video. Still, it was probably faster than my current breast->free turn. Here's my thoughts:

1 - Timing has to be pretty perfect. Flip too early and I felt like I was going to miss the wall. Flip too late and was afraid I was going to hurt myself.
2 - Even if you do everything right and legal, there might be a risk of getting dq'd.
3 - I found it hard to get my arms into a streamlined position before pushing off.

I only tried it a couple times so with some practice, I think it could be a lot better.

__steve__
December 6th, 2013, 10:14 AM
. Definitely slower or else it would be more common

Glenn
December 6th, 2013, 11:26 AM
The timing is difficult, but we had a state champion HS swimmer do this for the 100 fly in the mid 60's...he went 54.8.

knelson
December 6th, 2013, 12:48 PM
. Definitely slower or else it would be more common

I disagree.

The turn shown in this video is phenomenally fast and there's no way an open turn can match it. I just wonder if it's somewhat physiologically limited. Perhaps this kid's build enables him to pull this off effectively where others would never be able to execute it as well.

Couroboros
December 6th, 2013, 03:12 PM
Whoa.

I'm trying this out later this afternoon.

orca1946
December 6th, 2013, 06:31 PM
I think you would need a perfect touch to even try this.

Couroboros
December 6th, 2013, 08:12 PM
Really? Seems to me if you just let yourself glide a little, you don't need to time the touch exactly right. The benefit of doing a flipturn, instead of an open turn, will easily erase any time deficit created by the glide.

StewartACarroll
December 6th, 2013, 10:09 PM
I have watched this over and over, and it looks to me like an illegal turn; it looks fine at full speed, but when you slow it down the swimmers right hand(and possible the left too) does not touch the wall. It looks like he gets really close but does a really well timed double arm pull.

knelson
December 7th, 2013, 01:20 AM
I think it's legal. I think he dives down as he approaches the wall and touches quite far under the water. This sets up the flip.

-marina-
December 7th, 2013, 07:26 AM
NEAT!!!

Thanks rtodd!

That is one of the many things I love about swimming ― how much we all get to use our minds, thinking and developing improvements.

__steve__
December 7th, 2013, 08:40 AM
I disagree.

The turn shown in this video is phenomenally fast and there's no way an open turn can match it. I just wonder if it's somewhat physiologically limited. Perhaps this kid's build enables him to pull this off effectively where others would never be able to execute it as well.
I viewed the youngster using normal turns in another url for another im. Maybe its illegal for him but as far as our rulebook is concerned it is within all the rules (for now, right? ).

My legs would land on the deck if tried it. I wonder if he pushed before flipping

rtodd
December 7th, 2013, 08:57 AM
It's legal, but you need to commit to practicing it and that is a tricky proposition for a coach to commit to practicing it.

orca1946
December 7th, 2013, 01:08 PM
I sent this to our masters team & one of the guys said his 12 year old is doing this in meets.

knelson
December 7th, 2013, 04:59 PM
Maybe its illegal for him but as far as our rulebook is concerned it is within all the rules (for now, right? ).

No, should be legal for him and us as long as he's touching with both hands simultaneously. Stewart's concern was that he didn't actually ever touch.

orca1946
December 12th, 2013, 02:29 PM
It seems as if he does brush his hands down at the wall when he flips.

JanSwim
December 13th, 2013, 09:40 AM
I'm wondering if there are any tricks to not smashing your feet? (Like others noted, maybe pushing off with your arms before your feet come all the way around, touching low on the wall...?) It's obvious from the video that done right, that the fly flip turn is crazy fast.

Some folks here must remember when you had to touch the wall with your hand in freestyle even if you did a flip turn. From another thread (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?16374-Swimming-history-flip-turns-and-goggles) Allen Stark wrote:

The turn rule was changed about 1965 so that you didn't have to touch with your hand first in free.Until then many people didn't flip,especially in the longer distances as the speed difference wasn't worth the air lost.After the rule change everyone flipped in free.

A related turn that I haven't seen since I returned to swimming is flipping at the backstroke to breaststroke transition in an IM. For me, I felt it took a lot of extra energy without much (or any) increase in speed. Is that the general consensus now?

orca1946
December 13th, 2013, 11:15 AM
I used to do the bk to br flip & it was cool BUT, I don't think I gained any time in using it.

rtodd
December 14th, 2013, 04:01 PM
For fly I stick with open turns, but one of the coaches is trying this in practice. I don't think I like the results so far. This is what I try to teach the older kids for back to breast. I call it the flat spin.

http://youtu.be/-UZ2FWEJzUA