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View Full Version : ** APRIL FOOLS JOKE ** FINA Approves 25 M events-USMS approves 25M & 25 SCY events



michaelmoore
April 1st, 2014, 12:36 AM
For those of your who do not spend a lot of time reading the USMS and FINA websites, FINA voted to add 25 meter events to the list of events where FINA will track and approve world records.

The US Masters Swimming Board of Directors received notification from Dale Nueburger, Vice President of FINA, that the FINA Bureau had adopted several rules regarding 25 meter events for Masters swimming. Neuburger said that it is too late to add events to the FINA World Championships in Montreal later this year, but the 25s will be contested at the 2015 FINA World Masters Championships to be held in Kazan, Russia.

The Board of Directors adopted a resolution that it serves the best interests of USMS to immediately allow US Masters Swimming events to have 25 Meter and 25 yard events at sanctioned meets.

Nadine Day:

President Nadine K.M. Day, president of United States Masters Swimming said “The process required the Board to adopt a rule allowing for a change in the Rules of Swimming. Rule 506.3.9 requires the Board to act with the advice and consent of the Rules Committee and legal counsel. The Rules Committee voted on March 7, 2014, in favor of granting the Board emergency powers to establish 25 Meter and Yard events commencing 1 April 2014. Legal counsel supported the Rules Committee's recommendation. On March 8, 2014, the Board via a conference call (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/?utm_campaign=top_nav&utm_medium=for_volunteers) voted unanimously to establish changes in the United States Masters Swimming Code of Regulations and Rules of Competition. This action will be effective until the next meeting of the House of Delegates that will be held in Jacksonville, Florida, September 18-21, 2014

“I am so proud of the Rules and Championship Committees working together to implement the new FINA rules and for the Board of Directors for adopting them and the Rules Committee recommendation for adopting them in a timely manner as well as making the modifications for yards courses,” said Day. This was done under USMS Code of Regulations and Rule of Competition (2014 as amended) Section 506.3.9 “To exercise emergency power to adopt or suspend any swimming rule.” (FINA recognized that most pools would not have electronic timing systems at both sides of the course, changed the starting blocks rule so that a swimmer could only dive from a maximum of 30cm above the water - USMS recognized that many pool facilities had a recirculating water system that had the deck 12 inches above the water line changed the rules that for yards, that it could be 12 inches.

"US Masters Swimming has been the leader in the Masters swimming community and by making this change, US Masters Swimmers will be able to compete at the international level. This will also also our swimmers to get competitive experiance for the World Championships to be held next year in Russia" commented the Masters swimming president.

Rob Butcher:

“With our Adult Learn to Swim program that the Board of Directors of both United States Masters Swimming and the Swimming Saves Lives Foundation we can now add a competition component,” said Rob Butcher, Executive Director of United States Masters Swimming. The Boards believe that with competition now starting at 25 yards, we will be able to encourage novice adult swimmers to compete at sanctioned United States Masters Swimming pool competitions. Jim Matysek and his IT team will be working to improve our online sanctioning process and individual records to include these new events. (Later the Executive Director said that because of the time requirements to implement these new rules and make changes to the SQL Data Base, all other IT projects have been put on hold and that USMS was looking for another qualified IT person (http://www.usms.org/admin/natoffice.php?utm_campaign=top_nav&utm_medium=about_usms)).

Kathy Casey:

Kathy Casey, chair of the Rules Committee commented that The Rules Committee worked hard to review the proposed change by FINA. In reviewing the rule, we also reviewed a proposed rule for the 25s in Short Course Yards section of the Rule Book. The committee believes this change to Rules is in the best interest of Masters Swimming. The FINA change will be part of 102.5.2 and the Short Course Yards will be part of 102.5.1. The change in the rules will have to be approved by the House of Delegates under Section 501.c.3 of our Rule Book (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/f).

Jeff Roddin:

“The Championship Committee has been working with Santa Clara so they can have "time trials" at the upcoming Santa Clara Nationals” said Jeff Roddin, chair of Championship Committee. Due to the length of the days, we will only be able to have the trials on Thursday - the Distance Day. Jacki Allexander, the meet referee informed me that there will be enough qualified meet officials to officiate the time trials, however, due to the placement of the timing pads, swimmers must dive from the side of the pool (swimmers may also start in the water).

In speaking with sub-committee chair, Barry Fasbender, on the meet schedule, we will be able to offer the 25s at the San Antonio Championships next year, however, due to timing, they will only be able to be offered on Thursday, the distance day. We feel that this is advantageous, as the Committee believes that it will be the older age groups that will be swimming the 25s and they can come to the meet a day earlier.

(In the Committee minutes, Ed Saltzman (who is also an Official) said that he was against adding event to the list of approved events for national championships as it would add to the time line. Sandi Rousseau responded that it is the Championships committee that makes recommendations for the meet schedules and that we do not contest all events at the championships. Don Gilchrist, who is also on the Finance Committee, said that the Finance Committee did an analysis of the change and found that while there maybe more events, it will not increase the number of swimmers. As 25s take less time than other events, the time line will actually decrease. The committee voted 12 to 3 to support changes to the national championships and will review possible legislation at the annual convention. (fina (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/))

Genesis: 

FINA upon application (from Andorra, San Marino and Vatican City) for change in Masters Rule MSW2.1 (Short Course) said that since they were small countries and did not have room for a full 50 meet pool, they would like to have more events in their 25meter pool for their aging populations. This proposal was sent to the FINA Masters Technical Committee who agreed that there should be 25s for the strokes and 100M relays. The FINA Bureau unanimously approved the decision at their March 1-2 meeting in Cancun. (See FINA PR19 on the FINA website (http://www.fina.org/H2O/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4379:pr-19-fina-bureau-meeting-cancun-mex-march-1-2-2014&catid=395:2014&Itemid=246)) .

Backstory: 

I was able to use sky miles to travel to Rome and Florence for a two-week vacation in Italy. Being a Catholic boy, I wanted to see St Peters in Vatican City. I was able to go the Vatican Museum and St Peters. For an extra 5 Euros, I climbed to the top of St Peter's Basilica's dome. When looked to the North I saw the beautiful Vatican Gardens and near the north wall there was an 8 lane short course pool (as best I could tell). There were pasty elderly white men in red jammers who were practicing in the pool. (Nice Pool wonder if they have open swimming :-) )

Coming down, there is a resting area on the roof of St Peters, There is place to buy souvenirs and a refreshment shop ( I had an espresso, if they would have had wine, I would have had a glass - the trek is 351 steps (the easy part) then 351 steps down). I went over souvenir shop. Pope Francis has taken to writing articles as a guide for his flock that were sold in the roof top shop. One was titled Corpus Humanae - the Human Body, where the pope stresses that our body should be a temple of the Holy Spirit - not a basilica and that faithful should keep their bodies in good shape (I wonder if he had become a swimmer).

Later that week, I was in Florence and I met up with Andrea Prayer, a past member of the FINA Masters Committee. He was able to find a pool where I could swim. I told him about seeing the pool in the Vatican Gardens and the guys in the red jammers. Andrea said the Vatican had become a new member of FINA and they were establishing a Masters program - the papa Francis is really pushing fitness. The men in the red jammers were Cardinals; non-cardinals wore black. He also commented that the Vatican had an upcoming dual meet with the Jesuits.

We traveled back to Rome for our trip back to the States. We had an extra day in Rome. Having attended St Ignatius High School and Santa Clara University (both Jesuit institutions), I stopped at the Gesu Church (world headquarters of the Society of Jesus - the Jesuits) and next to it is the Camere of St Ignatius (The room where St Ignatius lived and wrote his spiritual exercises).

I was buying a couple of post cards when Fr. Adolfo Nicolas, the Superior General of the Society of Jesus walked by. I called Father General and asked if I could have my picture taken with him to which he graciously consented. I said I head about the dual meet with the Vatican and (pulling his chain a little) I asked if he was recruiting Dominican and Franciscans to the Jesuit swim club. He smiled then said in a heavy Spanish accent "Not this year - there is a 120 day rule on recruiting, but next year when we reregister, we are signing them up, but for this year we did recruit a couple of unattached Wisconsin synod Lutherans."

-michael
Michael W. Moore
April 1, 2014

Fresnoid
April 1st, 2014, 02:12 AM
So, we're adding 25s, but there still is no 1500 for masters Worlds.

Debugger
April 1st, 2014, 05:43 AM
Sounds like nice 1st April joke )

secondheart
April 1st, 2014, 09:41 AM
Sounds like nice 1st April joke )


I believe you are correct, too elaborate to be real. :applaud:

flystorms
April 1st, 2014, 10:50 AM
This sure smells like an April Fool's Day joke. Nice job!

__steve__
April 1st, 2014, 11:02 AM
It is adult learn to Swim Day!

chowmi
April 1st, 2014, 11:22 AM
WHAT A BUMMER! This would have been awesome. YMCA has 25's.

lynnmorrison
April 1st, 2014, 02:20 PM
Oh the pain and the agony of your teasing me like that...for a moment, my little sprinter mindset was in euphoria imagining so many records now within the grasp of one who tends to die at the 35 yard mark. To quote that great band of the 60's, The Foundation: Why do you build me up, Buttercup baby, just to tear me down and mess me around????

But bottom line...very well played, although Michael, the red suited Cardinals might have been a little over the top ;o)

sunruh
April 1st, 2014, 02:26 PM
an even better teaser/april fools joke would have been....FINA is bringing back the tech suits!!!

ande
April 1st, 2014, 03:57 PM
I WANT USMS to offer 25s

__steve__
April 1st, 2014, 04:02 PM
WHAT A BUMMER! This would have been awesome. YMCA has 25's.I don't know, maybe it's legit. That's a great deal of work to write up an April Fool's day gag like that. I'm willing to go out on a limb and risk being a genuine April Fool by believing it.


I WANT USMS to offer 25s

ME TOO

The Fortress
April 1st, 2014, 05:24 PM
I WANT USMS to offer 25s

Me too. Unlike track and field, swimming discriminates against the real drop dead sprinters.

sunruh
April 1st, 2014, 06:04 PM
Me too. Unlike track and field, swimming discriminates against the real drop dead sprinters.

but does more so against the distance people. sprinters dont have to choose between their 2 best events.

The Fortress
April 1st, 2014, 06:08 PM
but does more so against the distance people. sprinters dont have to choose between their 2 best events.

There are no dead drop sprint events. The only thing that would qualify as a drop dead sprint, akin to the 100 m dash, are the 25s.

You only have to choose between your two best events at nationals. Plenty of other opportunities to swim them in other meets.

orca1946
April 1st, 2014, 06:38 PM
If this is a joke --- Nadine will not be happy that her name was used to carry it forward!!!!!!!!!!!!

Chris Stevenson
April 1st, 2014, 07:52 PM
If this is a joke --- Nadine will not be happy that her name was used to carry it forward!!!!!!!!!!!!

Doubtful; I bet she laughed. It was a well done story.

So I read this in the early hours of the morning, barely awake. The funny thing is that reading that the Board approved this in a conference call (which you would think I would remember) didn't trigger any response from me, I just skimmed right over it. But when I read that Jeff Roddin agreed to alter nationals to accommodate this, warning bells went off in my head. :D

The last paragraph was pretty funny.

__steve__
April 2nd, 2014, 11:01 AM
What is the reason for nonexistent fast twitch competition in swimming anyway?

Rob Copeland
April 2nd, 2014, 11:08 AM
What is the reason for nonexistent fast twitch competition in swimming anyway?There are not enough 12.5 Yard pools out there and most 25Y facilities are not equipped with touchpads and blocks at both ends.

knelson
April 2nd, 2014, 11:45 AM
What is the reason for nonexistent fast twitch competition in swimming anyway?

Name a sport besides track that has a timed event that lasts approximately ten seconds. I can't. The shortest normally contested event in speed skating is the 500 meter which takes 35 seconds for the top skaters. There's a 1 km sprint event in cycling which takes a minute or so. The "sprint" event in X-C skiing is also 1 km. So really track is the outlier here.

__steve__
April 2nd, 2014, 12:20 PM
Many cycling races are won by efforts (in track a single effort for entire race) lasting less than 15 seconds.
NHRA top fuel drag racing can last just over 3 seconds at speeds well beyond 300mph from zero.

I don't want to debate with you, I will loose no matter what the topic

knelson
April 2nd, 2014, 01:18 PM
I don't want to debate with you, I will loose no matter what the topic

Well, gee, you're just no fun at all.

Allen Stark
April 2nd, 2014, 01:56 PM
I'd like to have 25s,but The comparison to track is a little difficult given the start and turn,but 25s would be fun.

__steve__
April 2nd, 2014, 03:22 PM
Well, gee, you're just no fun at all.And that's how I feel about not having 25's:D

Chris Stevenson
April 2nd, 2014, 04:46 PM
NHRA top fuel drag racing can last just over 3 seconds at speeds well beyond 300mph from zero.

You're really giving this as an example of "fast twitch competition?"

orca1946
April 2nd, 2014, 05:56 PM
I used to have 10 fast twitch fibers ---- 7 of them retired when I did!!!!!

__steve__
April 2nd, 2014, 06:28 PM
You're really giving this as an example of "fast twitch competition?"Well yes,

It was just an example of a sport besides track that has a timed event that lasts less than ten seconds.

Regarding fast-twitch competition, to control 10000HP down a narrow 1000 ft track I would suspect it does require strict use of type IIX fibers

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCSqr9hYbFY&feature=player_detailpage#t=113


I used to have 10 fast twitch fibers ---- 7 of them retired when I did!!!!!
3 fibers is more than enough to have fun!

pmccoy
April 2nd, 2014, 08:29 PM
Name a sport besides track that has a timed event that lasts approximately ten seconds.Cup stacking?

knelson
April 2nd, 2014, 09:06 PM
Cup stacking?

The first time I ever saw cup stacking I thought "this is the strangest competitive event ever devised by man." Come to think of it, I still feel that way.

OK, so far we've got drag racing and cup stacking. Have I proved my point yet? :)

__steve__
April 2nd, 2014, 09:36 PM
OK, so far we've got drag racing and cup stacking. Have I proved my point yet? :)Not yet, you did mention track as the only one that came to mind. Track and swimming are strikingly similar as racing events. Both don't require machinery or specialized mode of travel tools (i.e., skis, skates, bicycle, bobsled*, etc). They both are simple competitions of human vs distance, one on land through air, the other through and at the surface of water, so it would be fair to claim the standard competitive distances should result in similar formats of racing time. It could only broaden the sport.

philoswimmer
April 2nd, 2014, 10:19 PM
Ok, I was totally taken in by this -- the only April Fool's joke I was taken in by all day. Well done. The only thing that struck me funny was this: "Don Gilchrist, who is also on the Finance Committee, said that the Finance Committee did an analysis of the change and found that while there maybe more events, it will not increase the number of swimmers. As 25s take less time than other events, the time line will actually decrease."

??

But I am so used to people being illogical that I didn't sweat it too much.

jroddin
April 3rd, 2014, 08:39 AM
So I read this in the early hours of the morning, barely awake. The funny thing is that reading that the Board approved this in a conference call (which you would think I would remember) didn't trigger any response from me, I just skimmed right over it. But when I read that Jeff Roddin agreed to alter nationals to accommodate this, warning bells went off in my head. :D

The last paragraph was pretty funny.

Of course I'm in favor of 25s at Nationals. Now that I am in Matt Biondi's age group, I can at least be assured I won't get lapped in a race :) Not that I am hinting he may or may not be swimming at Nationals...:bolt:


Name a sport besides track that has a timed event that lasts approximately ten seconds.

Does Rob Copeland's wedding night count?

thewookiee
April 3rd, 2014, 09:28 AM
Does Rob Copeland's wedding night count?

Did they have clocks back then?

Rob Copeland
April 3rd, 2014, 09:36 AM
OK, so far we've got drag racing and cup stacking. Have I proved my point yet? :)Bull Riding?

Chris Stevenson
April 3rd, 2014, 09:45 AM
Not yet, you did mention track as the only one that came to mind. Track and swimming are strikingly similar as racing events. Both don't require machinery or specialized mode of travel tools (i.e., skis, skates, bicycle, bobsled*, etc). They both are simple competitions of human vs distance, one on land through air, the other through and at the surface of water, so it would be fair to claim the standard competitive distances should result in similar formats of racing time. It could only broaden the sport.

Finally, finally I appreciate fully the meaning of the title of Steely Dan's third album (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pretzel_Logic).

__steve__
April 3rd, 2014, 10:39 AM
What is the motive to discredit and poke fun at the only distance in swimming that would be a true test of speed?

arthur
April 3rd, 2014, 11:07 AM
Ok, I was totally taken in by this -- the only April Fool's joke I was taken in by all day. Well done. The only thing that struck me funny was this: "Don Gilchrist, who is also on the Finance Committee, said that the Finance Committee did an analysis of the change and found that while there maybe more events, it will not increase the number of swimmers. As 25s take less time than other events, the time line will actually decrease."

??

But I am so used to people being illogical that I didn't sweat it too much.
If the max number of events you can swim stays the same and people sign up for 25s instead of 100s and 200s then the total meet time should decrease unless enough people who didn't swim max events add 25 events or more people register for meets because of the 25s.

philoswimmer
April 3rd, 2014, 11:23 AM
If the max number of events you can swim stays the same and people sign up for 25s instead of 100s and 200s then the total meet time should decrease unless enough people who didn't swim max events add 25 events or more people register for meets because of the 25s.

Ok, thanks, that makes a little more sense now. Still, one of the stated goals of adding 25s was to get more people involved in competitive swimming, so I'm not sure how that would wash out. (Note that I am not against adding 25s... I think it would be cool, though I don't know if I'd enter).

aquageek
April 3rd, 2014, 12:27 PM
What is the motive to discredit and poke fun at the only distance in swimming that would be a true test of speed?

Because it is the opportunity for sprinters to whine even more.

And, I totally disagree, a 25 is no test of true speed. I can guarantee you that the best 50 swimmers would be matched evenly by swimmers of all distances in lame 8/under 25s.

chowmi
April 3rd, 2014, 02:42 PM
Because it is the opportunity for sprinters to whine even more.

And, I totally disagree, a 25 is no test of true speed. I can guarantee you that the best 50 swimmers would be matched evenly by swimmers of all distances in lame 8/under 25s.

But doesn't that mean that it IS a test of true speed? And arguably, it is at test of "first 15 speed". If you get to the 15 mark first and you have a solid to perfect finishing stroke, chances are no one is going to catch you on those few gratuitous strokes past the 15 mark where everyone is putting pure power into their last 10 yards/meters.

Chris Stevenson
April 3rd, 2014, 03:16 PM
What is the motive to discredit and poke fun at the only distance in swimming that would be a true test of speed?

Technically I wasn't, I was poking fun (good-natured to be sure) at the convolutions of logic needed to prove the point you want to prove.

But if you want to be serious, I'll agree that I have little respect for races that are too short to be held in "olympic sized pools" and that are considered too short for 9 year olds. (See, THAT is poking fun at 25s. I guess I do have a hard time being serious about the topic.) Nor do I agree that it is the only test of true swim speed, though it would be a good test of who has a good start.

I'm sure many would have the "what harm would it do" mentality. But I have a hard enough time in meets warming up for events that follow 50s due to the hordes of swimmers warming down. If you have twice as many people competing in that same time it would be a complete zoo. Pass.

__steve__
April 3rd, 2014, 03:32 PM
I'll agree that I have little respect for races that are too short to be held in "olympic sized pools" and that are considered too short for 9 year olds. Like the 100IM?:)

ALM
April 3rd, 2014, 05:20 PM
Does Rob Copeland's wedding night count?

Jeff, you'd better tread lightly... he's a moderator, and he has the power to change your avatar. Not that I would ever suggest such a thing, of course. :)

thewookiee
April 3rd, 2014, 05:41 PM
Jeff, you'd better tread lightly... he's a moderator, and he has the power to change your avatar. Not that I would ever suggest such a thing, of course. :)

I would be curious to see what avatar should be used for mr. roddin. Please have ask mr. copeland to use his powers to do such a change. And, can he change geek's as well? That pink pig or whatever is not suitable for king geek.

Betsy
April 5th, 2014, 04:07 PM
Michael Moore,
You have the most devious and creative mind! It's frightening to consider the detail. This may be your best one.
Betsy

Chris Stevenson
April 5th, 2014, 04:28 PM
Like the 100IM?:)

100 > 25


Michael Moore,
You have the most devious and creative mind! It's frightening to consider the detail. This may be your best one.
Betsy

They say that the best April Fools jokes have their basis in reality...

__steve__
April 5th, 2014, 07:23 PM
You win Chris, but I tried

Chris Stevenson
September 1st, 2014, 11:17 AM
They say that the best April Fools jokes have their basis in reality...

:bump:

R15 in this year's rule proposals to be considered in less than three weeks:

http://www.usms.org/admin/conv/2014/rulesproposals.pdf

Thoughts, opinions, comments? (The proposal is yards only though, not quite a match for the thread title.)

Might as well read the other rule proposals while you're at it and let your LMSC delegates know if you feel strongly about any of them!

Jimbosback
September 1st, 2014, 11:38 AM
:bump:

R15 in this year's rule proposals to be considered in less than three weeks:

http://www.usms.org/admin/conv/2014/rulesproposals.pdf

Thoughts, opinions, comments? (The proposal is yards only though, not quite a match for the thread title.)

Might as well read the other rule proposals while you're at it and let your LMSC delegates know if you feel strongly about any of them!

100 relays would be really fun!

Swimosaur
September 2nd, 2014, 10:31 AM
Thoughts, opinions, comments? (The proposal is yards only though ...


1. Why yards only? If adding 25 events, why not SCM as well? I go to an SCM meet every year that features 25s. I never swim them, but the people who do seem to be having fun. I guess it takes all kinds.

2. Speaking of all kinds, symmetry demands -- demands, I tell you -- that that the addition of ridiculously short, patently and obviously unswimmable 25s be balanced by the addition of at least 500 fly, back, and breast, and 800 IM. The Australians are cleaning our clocks in this regard, not only offering 25s, but also 400 stroke & more. (And as long as we're adding work for Jim, we might as well add twice as much. You're welcome.)

knelson
September 2nd, 2014, 12:17 PM
1. Why yards only? If adding 25 events, why not SCM as well?

I'm guessing it's got something to do with FINA.

sunruh
September 2nd, 2014, 01:47 PM
:bump:

R15 in this year's rule proposals to be considered in less than three weeks:

http://www.usms.org/admin/conv/2014/rulesproposals.pdf

Thoughts, opinions, comments? (The proposal is yards only though, not quite a match for the thread title.)

Might as well read the other rule proposals while you're at it and let your LMSC delegates know if you feel strongly about any of them!

i could give you a hint, but then i'd have to hurt you...its ultra top secret.

and if the rules committee does not include it in package, does it not take something like a 2/3rds vote by the HoD to pass it?

sunruh
September 2nd, 2014, 01:47 PM
I'm guessing it's got something to do with FINA.

let's just say this:

if 18-24 cant compete in fina, you really think 25s are going to be included? lol

Chris Stevenson
September 2nd, 2014, 02:44 PM
and if the rules committee does not include it in package, does it not take something like a 2/3rds vote by the HoD to pass it?

True. You would obviously know more than I, but my guess would be that the Rules Committee does not recommend this rule. But that doesn't doom it outright since, as you say, 2/3 can still pass it.

I've said my piece about 25s but aside from their desirability (or not), I will note that (a) there are some logistical barriers (eg not all pools are long enough to have two sets of touchpads) and (b) nothing stops meets from having 25s right now -- some meets do just that (http://www.patriotmasters.org/SprintClassic.htm) -- they just don't count for things like Top 10 or records.


if 18-24 cant compete in fina, you really think 25s are going to be included? lol

Playing devil's advocate: we don't do everything exactly as FINA does...including allowing 18-24 age groupers to compete, or counting times from USA-S meets! :-)

sunruh
September 2nd, 2014, 03:28 PM
chris,
let's just say...you could not have written that any better and NOT been on our conf calls! :D:D:D

true on fina for yards and tech suits yards, and sure they can swim meters, just not for a fina rankings.

ElaineK
September 2nd, 2014, 04:01 PM
2. Speaking of all kinds, symmetry demands -- demands, I tell you -- that that the addition of ridiculously short, patently and obviously unswimmable 25s be balanced by the addition of at least 500 fly, back, and breast, and 800 IM. The Australians are cleaning our clocks in this regard, not only offering 25s, but also 400 stroke & more. (And as long as we're adding work for Jim, we might as well add twice as much. You're welcome.)


:banana::banana::banana:

StewartACarroll
September 2nd, 2014, 08:55 PM
chris,
let's just say...you could not have written that any better and NOT been on our conf calls! :D:D:D

true on fina for yards and tech suits yards, and sure they can swim meters, just not for a fina rankings.

So does this imply that if body suits were put on the ballet and 2/3rds voted to bring them back for yards, the rules would be changed. Now whether the vendors would manufacturer them again is a whole different story I guess.

sunruh
September 3rd, 2014, 09:31 AM
So does this imply that if body suits were put on the ballet and 2/3rds voted to bring them back for yards, the rules would be changed. Now whether the vendors would manufacturer them again is a whole different story I guess.

Mr. McRibs you certainly offer up an interesting conversation piece with that question.
in 2010 usms pretty much did exactly that for scy. but all meters events were non-supersuits (my gorilla suit i step out of certain would welcome them back with joyful open arms). in a rules year (evens yes, odds no) you could have your lmsc submit that (before the deadline as shown in the rules book) and have it brought before the rules committee for a vote and even if shot down in committee it could still be brought before the HoD (house of delegates) for the 2/3rds vote. i think i have that all correct.

certainly a possibility since it has been done before, but on the whole, usms tends to stick with the fina rules. the reason we have scy is because we have more pools of that type than all others total. so much for that sae to metric conversion i heard so much about in the 70s. lol. besides, where would you find a tech suit for that boney 6'5 frame of yours and can we point and laugh as you get into one without a zipper? (btw, no zipper is another fina rule that just the women currently have to deal with).

StewartACarroll
September 3rd, 2014, 08:11 PM
n 2010 usms pretty much did exactly that for scy. but all meters events were non-supersuits (my gorilla suit i step out of certain would welcome them back with joyful open arms). in a rules year (evens yes, odds no) you could have your lmsc submit that (before the deadline as shown in the rules book) and have it brought before the rules committee for a vote and even if shot down in committee it could still be brought before the HoD (house of delegates) for the 2/3rds vote.


Thanks for the clarification Steve. I am guessing it would not go anywhere but I will email our LMSC and see what they say.


Certainly a possibility since it has been done before, but on the whole, usms tends to stick with the fina rules. the reason we have scy is because we have more pools of that type than all others total. so much for that sae to metric conversion i heard so much about in the 70s.

I understand and the FINA alignment in meters so that we can compete at FINA events such as worlds but yards makes no sense at all. We are the only country that swims SCY so use what ever floats our boat I say...but what do I know.


Mr. McRibs you certainly offer up an interesting conversation piece with that question.
....
besides, where would you find a tech suit for that boney 6'5 frame of yours and can we point and laugh as you get into one without a zipper? (btw, no zipper is another fina rule that just the women currently have to deal with).


I am feeling a little jealousy in your name calling Mr Unruh. You have been close enough to me to know those ribs are really muscles and it takes enormous effort to maintain my finely tuned six pack. As an aside I found a picture I must share with you sometime from before I lost the weight and got back in the pool. It's pretty funny, I have at least 5 chins.

If they made the crutch in a women's suit a little more accommodating I am sure I can find a women's suit that would do the trick. My daughter wears a 21 and I am only a few sizes bigger. Would it be odd to go test hers out?

sunruh
September 4th, 2014, 08:48 AM
well in a way we already do what we want in yards.
we allow 18-24 to be recorded for top 10. heck, we even let them get on the blocks and race which is a no no in fina. as you will recall my good friend, the ages in montreal started at 25.
we also have nice gutter wall turns in those yard pools were your fingers can nicely grip without a flat touchpad to slip on.
the "feel" is to be like fina in yards (age and pools being the exception) as closely as we can so that there is no big shocker when lcm/scm seasons start.

i need to re-introduce you to Blue Bell for '15!

ummmmm, i think i need a lobotomy now. lol

ande
September 9th, 2014, 05:52 PM
Please
Raise it
Approve it
Race it

include SCM too


:bump:

R15 in this year's rule proposals to be considered in less than three weeks:

http://www.usms.org/admin/conv/2014/rulesproposals.pdf

Thoughts, opinions, comments? (The proposal is yards only though, not quite a match for the thread title.)

Might as well read the other rule proposals while you're at it and let your LMSC delegates know if you feel strongly about any of them!

Swimosaur
September 22nd, 2014, 05:15 PM
R15 in this year's rule proposals to be considered in less than three weeks:

http://www.usms.org/admin/conv/2014/rulesproposals.pdf

What happened? Any fistfights?

ALLISONWARE
September 22nd, 2014, 06:07 PM
Much discussion, including an amendment to include them as "legitimate" events but not include in Top 10, records, etc. Amendment failed by 2 votes of the 2/3 majority. Rules committee wasn't recommending, HoD vote didn't overturn the committee, issue is dead (for now).

It was emphatically noted that the ability to include "non-standard" events is, was & will be at the discretion of the meet director & the national database has been updated to include the tracking of 25s if they are submitted in the results.

Muppet
September 24th, 2014, 02:56 PM
the national database has been updated to include the tracking of 25s if they are submitted in the results.

I loved how Jim Matsyek got up there and said he'd have that capability before the end of the meeting and 30 minutes later, there it was!

I would like to see more meets take the approach of having the non-standard events in their lineup. If the supply can meet up with the so-called "high demand," then lets revisit in 2016 with more data.
I think if the language in the amendment had been changed earlier in convention (and not at HOD#6), more people would have approved the amendment and approved the rule. Clearly the amended language had more support than the original proposal, and thus, if re-submitted with the amended language, I see 25s passing much more easily next time around.

Swimosaur
September 24th, 2014, 03:39 PM
I loved how Jim Matsyek got up there and said he'd have that capability before the end of the meeting and 30 minutes later, there it was!

Jim Matysek rocks.


I would like to see more meets take the approach of having the non-standard events in their lineup.

(Once again,) Australian Masters Swimming (http://www.mastersswimming.org.au/) competes, and keeps NRs and TTs for, SCM 25-50-100-200-400-800 of all strokes, 100-200-400-800 IM, and 1500 back, breast, and free. It would be cool if some enterprising meet director did something like,


Event 1. Mixed 500 fly
Event 2. Mixed 500 back
Event 3. Mixed 500 breast
Event 4. Mixed 500 free

Events 1-4 will be seeded together, slow to fast, by entry time, regardless of stroke. Swimmers must complete the entire event according to the rules governing the entered stroke. Entry times must be estimated; NT (no time) entries will not be accepted. A swimmer may enter at most one of the events 1-4.

Would that even be possible?

ALM
September 24th, 2014, 04:16 PM
...the national database has been updated to include the tracking of 25s if they are submitted in the results.

Here's how to find the Event Rankings for 25-yard or meter events:

1) go to usms.org
2) mouse over the red "Events & Results" tab
3) click on "Look up event rankings"
4) scroll down to SCM
5) search on 2013, Men, 25 Free, ages 18-99, display top 200

Sportygeek
September 26th, 2014, 09:27 PM
Those Australian 400/800/1500 form stroke and 800IM records come from stand alone long distance SC or long distance LC meets (or postal swims, if MSA counts them for records). Theoretically, there's a long distance Masters meet every year in my state, but sometimes cancelled due to low numbers.

You can enter *one* 400m event (any stroke or IM), *one* 800m event (any stroke or IM) and any *one* 1500m event. Here's the entry for our upcoming LDLC meet: https://sitedesq.imgstg.com/swimregform/index.cfm?fuseaction=display_meet_summary&MeetID=16914&OrgID=3398

No 400m events (not even 400 free) at our state Masters championships. 400/800 free and 400IM at Aus Masters Nationals.

Sportygeek
October 10th, 2014, 05:18 AM
Theoretically, there's a long distance Masters meet every year in my state, but sometimes cancelled due to low numbers.

Just officially cancelled for the second year in a row: http://www.mastersswimmingvic.org.au/Events/artmid/7480/articleid/11461/Long-Distance-Long-Course-CANCELLED

ALM
October 10th, 2014, 01:01 PM
The Rowdy Gaines meet begins today. They have 25s of all four strokes.

Psych sheets and other info can be found here:
http://www.swimphone.com/mobile/meets/meet_menu.cfm?smid=5570

__steve__
April 1st, 2016, 11:30 AM
It's April 1st and tomorrow I will be racing 25's:agree: