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emmett
April 3rd, 2014, 02:08 PM
I have a few relays where one or more swimmer names are missing in Meet Manager. I've asked the MD to go back and see if he's got this data in other media (relay cards, etc.). If he is unable to, am I correct that the relays must be DQ'd based on RB 102.9.5thru7?

:bolt:

Chris Stevenson
April 3rd, 2014, 04:01 PM
I don't think top 10 people are the ones to make DQ decisions, that's up to the meet officials/administrators.

But a relay with missing people is certainly not eligible for Top 10 consideration. How can you be sure of age group, genders, club affiliations, etc etc?

jseidler
April 3rd, 2014, 04:54 PM
Hi Emmitt,

I reviewed the rules that you mentioned. Definitely something has to be done with the relay data because it is not correct as per the rules. I use Exhibition notation for these situations.

When I have run into situations with names on the relays, I have contacted the meet director for a resolution. If there is none, I either delete the relay (with consensus from the meet director) or mark it as exhibition. Exhibition relays are ignored in the preparation of the Top Ten Submit.

I did run into one situation this winter when a relay had 3 swimmers from one team and one swimmer from another LMSC. I marked that as exhibition before I uploaded the meet. In Wisconsin, we only have a few meet directors, and we communicate closely. For the ineligible swimmer situation, I contacted one of the swimmers to tell them of the situation. I had asked the meet director to contact the relay, but since I'm one of those more thorough persons and I knew the swimmers, I also contacted the relay. In effect, the relay was a DQ although I don't know whether the meet director recreated the meet results to show the relay as exhibition.

Top Ten Recorders do have a difficult job. If no one else who has handled the data has made an attempt to have it be correct, the Top Ten is the last line of defense to make sure the data is correct and complete.

emmett
April 3rd, 2014, 06:11 PM
Yes a missing-names relay would not be considered in T10 under any cercumstances.

For at least one of these relays the missing name was definitely from another club (or unat) as the club had only 3 swimmers entered in the meet. So the question is whether the time for such a relay should go into the database at all. Other illegal (DQ'd) swims don't have times in the ERDB. It seems that allowing times for illegal relays simply encourages more illegal relays.

On the other hand, if we want to allow such relays to be swum and times entered into the ERDB but not the T10 we should perhaps indicate in the rule book that such relays may be entered and swum but will be counted as exhibition for meet scoring and Top10.

:bolt:

Chris Stevenson
April 3rd, 2014, 07:59 PM
Yes a missing-names relay would not be considered in T10 under any cercumstances.

For at least one of these relays the missing name was definitely from another club (or unat) as the club had only 3 swimmers entered in the meet. So the question is whether the time for such a relay should go into the database at all. Other illegal (DQ'd) swims don't have times in the ERDB. It seems that allowing times for illegal relays simply encourages more illegal relays.

On the other hand, if we want to allow such relays to be swum and times entered into the ERDB but not the T10 we should perhaps indicate in the rule book that such relays may be entered and swum but will be counted as exhibition for meet scoring and Top10.

:bolt:

Personally I don't think this is a rule book issue but rather a policy issue. Or put another way: I think the current rules already cover this situation. Either way, Records & Tabulation can address the issue if it wishes (either to decide on a policy or to submit a rule change).

I have always marked them as exhibition within the ERDB and in results posted on the LMSC website. I guess I don't really see that there is any harm in "encouraging" this "bad" behavior if the host wishes to accommodate illegal relays. Their money is as green and spends as well as anyone else's.