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View Full Version : 500 free - what stroke/s are acceptable? Can I mix them?



greenjeans11
April 18th, 2014, 04:24 PM
I'm doing some 500's, have always done what most call freestyle.

Can I ever mix in other strokes? Do I need to do the same stroke throughout?

I'd love to do some backstroke during it. Am also aiming for an 800.

I've read the rulebook and either not understood or not seen an answer to my questions.

Thanks! I've only been racing 3 years.

Debra, Ohio :)

Allen Stark
April 18th, 2014, 05:02 PM
Freestyle is any style.The only real exception to that is that you must stay at the surface after 15M from the start and turn.That rule applies to fly and BK also ,but not BR,therefore, is is possible(but unlikely for most swimmers) to swim BR in such a manner that it is legal in a BR race,but not in a free race(either by going beyond 15M on the pullout or submerging your entire body during the stroke.)

Chris Stevenson
April 18th, 2014, 05:06 PM
it is possible(but unlikely for most swimmers) to swim BR in such a manner that it is legal in a BR race,but not in a free race(either by going beyond 15M on the pullout or submerging your entire body during the stroke.)

The flip side is true too. One can swim fly in a manner that would get you DQ'd in a fly race (eg one handed turns) but not in a 500 free.

chowmi
April 18th, 2014, 10:32 PM
I find that the rule is very short and dry. You want the interpretations, and this is the best place:

www.usaswimming.org
Member Resources (top bar)
Officials (middle section)
Education and Training (w/in Officials section)
Education and Training Resources (w/in above section left bar)
Official's Manual/Guide to Officiating (almost there, about 1/2 page down)
Chapter 5 - go to freestyle section!

arthur
April 18th, 2014, 11:04 PM
If the meet swims 2 per lane for 800/1500/1650 you have to swim front crawl, but otherwise in free events you can do any stroke you want.

orca1946
April 19th, 2014, 12:58 AM
I think you can do whatever you want as long as the turns & stroke are legel. I have seen swimmers do an IM or fly or back.

greenjeans11
April 19th, 2014, 11:36 AM
Thanks, Chowmi. Once I realized you were at usaswimming and not usms, I found what it wanted. The following was included:

3. Choice of strokes during freestyle events Question: I told a swimmer that she could not do the 200 IM during the 200 free because once a stroke is selected in a freestyle event, you cannot change to another stroke during the race. The swimmer’s coach insisted I was wrong. Who was right?
Answer: The coach was correct. In an event designated as freestyle, the swimmer may swim any style (101.5.2). There are no restrictions about changing the style of swimming during a freestyle event. The only restriction regarding style is during the freestyle portion of a medley event; in a medley relay or individual medley event, freestyle means any style other than butterfly, breaststroke or backstroke (101.5.2). Again there is no restriction about changing the style of swimming during the freestyle portion of the medley event. Regardless of the stroke(s) used, times achieved in freestyle events can be recorded only as freestyle times (103.12.2).

greenjeans11
April 19th, 2014, 11:38 AM
Thanks, Arthur. Good to know if I ever have 2 per lane, which is possible this summer when I do an 800.

greenjeans11
April 19th, 2014, 11:41 AM
I wish I'd kept it, Orca- I read the strokes and turns do not have to be legal in freestyle. Turns just have to happen. So "sloppy" swimming should be acceptable.

greenjeans11
April 19th, 2014, 11:45 AM
What all this means for me is that, if I want to do some back stroke in pool distance race, I can. My backstroke loses me little time (I'm a so-so freestyler, better at back) and gives me a break, should I choose to do so. Oh well, more to work on.

knelson
April 19th, 2014, 12:56 PM
I think you can do whatever you want as long as the turns & stroke are legel.

Yes, but it's "freestyle" so that means everything is legal. You could do sidestroke or corkscrew if you wanted. As Allen mentioned, the only real rule is you must surface by the 15 meter mark.

chowmi
April 19th, 2014, 01:37 PM
Thanks, Chowmi. Once I realized you were at usaswimming and not usms, I found what it wanted. The following was included:

3. Choice of strokes during freestyle events Question: I told a swimmer that she could not do the 200 IM during the 200 free because once a stroke is selected in a freestyle event, you cannot change to another stroke during the race. The swimmer’s coach insisted I was wrong. Who was right?
Answer: The coach was correct. In an event designated as freestyle, the swimmer may swim any style (101.5.2). There are no restrictions about changing the style of swimming during a freestyle event. The only restriction regarding style is during the freestyle portion of a medley event; in a medley relay or individual medley event, freestyle means any style other than butterfly, breaststroke or backstroke (101.5.2). Again there is no restriction about changing the style of swimming during the freestyle portion of the medley event. Regardless of the stroke(s) used, times achieved in freestyle events can be recorded only as freestyle times (103.12.2).

Yes, you see these interpretations make more sense. Other than in an IM race or medley relay, it is anything goes, including doggy paddle, corkscrews (i'd like to see knelson do this for his distance events, WOW, i can just imagine how dizzy he'd get! oh wait. never mind. he can corkscrew both ways!), and therefore you can change strokes mid-pool as well. It's so awesome we have a stroke where you don't even have to commit to a 25 of it! Of course be mindful of the 15 mark AND that you CANNOT be completely submerged, so no going 15 meters, waving and doing a sexy leg up and twisting down syncro move and going underwater to the wall. I find it interesting that if you miss a turn, and for whatever reason it takes you just short of the next wall to figure it out, you can swim back and touch that wall without getting DQ'd as long as you don't touch the opposite wall. That's a huge grace time in a LCM pool, and boy would you get your entry $ worth out of that swim.

__steve__
April 19th, 2014, 03:06 PM
James did a seated skull for his 25 free race.. He claimed to have everyone cheering. Completely legitimate, though I thought it was a waste of a rare opportunity

knelson
April 19th, 2014, 05:39 PM
corkscrews (i'd like to see knelson do this for his distance events, WOW, i can just imagine how dizzy he'd get! oh wait. never mind. he can corkscrew both ways!)

You get an "A" for reading comprehension!


James did a seated skull for his 25 free race.. He claimed to have everyone cheering.

File under "delusions of grandeur." :banana:

That Guy
April 19th, 2014, 05:43 PM
Challenge: swim a 500 this way (but do breathe!) http://swimswam.com/watch-kajetan-zaluski-swim-50-free-backwards-breaths/

Sportygeek
April 19th, 2014, 06:29 PM
Yes, but it's "freestyle" so that means everything is legal. You could do sidestroke or corkscrew if you wanted. As Allen mentioned, the only real rule is you must surface by the 15 meter mark.

Also, you can't walk on the bottom of the pool (SW 10.5) or pull on the lane rope (SW 10.6).

Allen Stark
April 19th, 2014, 08:58 PM
Challenge: swim a 500 this way (but do breathe!) http://swimswam.com/watch-kajetan-zaluski-swim-50-free-backwards-breaths/

His doing it without breathing takes it from "kinda cool" to really,really stupid (see this thread http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?23828-Is-it-possible-to-train-25-SCY-underwaters-safely&highlight=shallow+water+drowning )

Fresnoid
April 19th, 2014, 10:40 PM
Apparently, doing a 500 all Fly is offensive to some.

http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?23785-500-Fly-worthy-challenge-or-arrogant-showboating

__steve__
April 20th, 2014, 01:10 PM
500 of fly would be offensive if I attempted it:eek:

orca1946
April 20th, 2014, 04:08 PM
Although fun to watch!!

ande
April 21st, 2014, 03:42 PM
YES
it's freestyle
feel FREE to pick your STYLE of stroke
most elect the crawl

rxleakem
April 21st, 2014, 08:58 PM
I've done the 400 IM + 100 easy during a 500. Of course, the time for the IM was not official, and the final time was recorded as a 500 free time, but I was more interested in getting a 400 IM time. In order not to be deeked/dnf'd, I had to complete the race.

This weekend I'll be doing a 500 backstroke...

Lots of ways to have fun with the 500 :thewave:

greenjeans11
April 25th, 2014, 02:24 PM
Corkscrew, skull, IM, backwards- certainly memorable approaches. I just want to mix in backstroke. This Summer I'm in an LCMS. I plan to touch at each end, but who knows?


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rxleakem
April 25th, 2014, 09:46 PM
I just want to mix in backstroke. This Summer I'm in an LCMS. I plan to touch at each end, but who knows?


No problem. Roll over to stretch out your shoulders when you need to.