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O_DeeDee
June 25th, 2014, 11:44 PM
Seems like everyone thinks I should change to Bent arm freestyle pull. Have done straight arm as kid and now over 20 years as masters and for first 10 years all strokes all distances and all open waters. And most years very successfully. And no shoulder injuries. I have been researching thingthis online and understand the differences but still do not see how changing to bent arm free pull would be to my benefit. And feels totally awkward. Yeah I know change feels awkward. Anyone else feel this way?

robertsrobson
June 26th, 2014, 05:07 AM
To what end? How important is it to you to get a little faster?

What's most important is that you're not dropping your elbow.

I've tried, but not persisted, with bending at the elbow. Well, I sort of try it. But the bottom line for me is that I do freestyle for basic conditioning and don't really care that much if I get a little bit faster. So I don't really try that hard to break old habits...

Glenn
June 26th, 2014, 10:17 AM
Robertsrobson is right, what is your goal in swimming? If you just like to swim, enjoy the workouts, the friends you make, the fitness aspect, and you are content with your level of success, by all means continue what you are doing, no reason to change.

If you are interested in swimming faster...that is different. How important is swimming faster? If it is not important, don't do anything to change what you are doing.

Technique is king. Decreasing the amount of drag/resistance you create by improving your technique will go a long way to help you swim faster.

The direction of movement your arm does when entering the water using a straight arm approach is where? Down. Pushing the water down, does what? It lifts you up in the water. That continues until your straight arm becomes vertical in the water at which time you begin to push water behind you, thus moving you ahead in the direction you want to go. How many strokes does it take you to go 25 yards with a straight arm approach vs. how many with a true high elbow early vertical catch?

The earlier you get your arm in a position to pull water behind you, the more water you will be moving and the faster you will go.

__steve__
June 26th, 2014, 04:35 PM
If you're quite powerful, I think for shorter distances there can be a trade-off for using a straighter arm pull. Swimmers like Bovell and Bosque can accomplish this. Of course the elbow will always follow their catch no matter how straight their arm appears.

I try to concentrate all propulsive forces facing back, but the degree of high elbow catch is dictated by flexibility, which for me is slightly straight arm.

Glenn
June 26th, 2014, 05:49 PM
If you're quite powerful, I think for shorter distances there can be a trade-off for using a straighter arm pull. Swimmers like Bovell and Bosque can accomplish this. Of course the elbow will always follow their catch no matter how straight their arm appears.


Correct me if I am wrong here, but there are some sprinters who use a straight arm recovery - Bovell and Bosque may be two who do this. But I would be very surprised if they also use that same straight arm for the pull.

Glenn
June 26th, 2014, 06:13 PM
Secret Tip: How to Pull in Freestyle - The Race Club | The Race Club (http://www.theraceclub.com/videos/secret-tip-how-to-pull-in-freestyle/#sthash.swNmzmyK.dpbs)

Here ia a video by Gary Hall Sr. that discusses the straight arm pull vs. the early vertical forearm.

__steve__
June 26th, 2014, 06:17 PM
Correct me if I am wrong here, but there are some sprinters who use a straight arm recovery - Bovell and Bosque may be two who do this. But I would be very surprised if they also use that same straight arm for the pull.

Bovell definately keeps his UW arm pull straight (but with bent recovery). Look at 0:40:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8cs3iD5Ns

Glenn
June 26th, 2014, 06:38 PM
I stand corrected. He is using a straight arm UW indeed.

Interesting though he is representing the Race Club on his cap. You may want to look at the video I posted from GH Sr., of the Race Club and his opinion of the straight vs. EVF.

It's hard to argue with a bronze medal (well maybe a little), but on his start on the blocks he rocks backward first. Why??? Why would you want to start the race 8 inches behind the starting line? I like to grab the sides of the blocks and lean way forward 8 inches. When the gun goes off I am already 16 inches ahead of him. And yes, I know he will catch me!

Also his head is raised as he is looking slightly forward while he is swimming. Should be looking straight down.

Other than that his stroke is perfect...

secondheart
June 26th, 2014, 09:10 PM
Bovell definately keeps his UW arm pull straight (but with bent recovery). Look at 0:40:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lg8cs3iD5Ns

Look at :39, looks like left arm straight, right arm bent ???

__steve__
June 26th, 2014, 09:34 PM
I on his start on the blocks he rocks backward first. Why??? Why would you want to start the race 8 inches behind the starting line? .It seems like many of the fastest swimmers in the world can get away with doing things wrong

Off topic as it relates to arm recovery, yet an interesting comparison nonetheless. Nystrand with straight recovery, and Bernard with bent recovery (but straight arm pull like Bovell):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HyHTgE_os8

Glenn, in my first reply I meant to refer the UW straight arm style to the other Frenchman, Alain Bernard, not Bousquet (whose name I butchured - lol)

Allen Stark
June 26th, 2014, 10:03 PM
I stand corrected. He is using a straight arm UW indeed.

Interesting though he is representing the Race Club on his cap. You may want to look at the video I posted from GH Sr., of the Race Club and his opinion of the straight vs. EVF.

It's hard to argue with a bronze medal (well maybe a little), but on his start on the blocks he rocks backward first. Why??? Why would you want to start the race 8 inches behind the starting line? I like to grab the sides of the blocks and lean way forward 8 inches. When the gun goes off I am already 16 inches ahead of him. And yes, I know he will catch me!

Also his head is raised as he is looking slightly forward while he is swimming. Should be looking straight down.

Other than that his stroke is perfect...
The difference between the leaning forward start,the neutral start,and the slingshot start are interesting,and what is best for you is probably due to individual differences.I had my starts timed by a coach and I was fastest to 15M with the slingshot.I think I got the most power from my legs that way. YMMV

Glenn
June 26th, 2014, 10:39 PM
It seems like many of the fastest swimmers in the world can get away with doing things wrong

Off topic as it relates to arm recovery, yet an interesting comparison nonetheless. Nystrand with straight recovery, and Bernard with bent recovery (but straight arm pull like Bovell):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3HyHTgE_os8

Glenn, in my first reply I meant to refer the UW straight arm style to the other Frenchman, Alain Bernard, not Bousquet (whose name I butchured - lol)

No question that many world class swimmers do some things "wrong" and still set records. The question then becomes a "what if". That is what is fascinating about our sport. There are so many variables that it is sometimes hard to say what is "right". So maybe it is what is right for each individual.