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rtodd
October 1st, 2014, 09:59 PM
Turned 50 yesterday, so I tried to swim a 50 sec 100 free. The best I could do was 52 with fins. Who has tried this without fins and been able to match their age? I think it's a good challenge. I suppose this feat could be done as early as mid 40's for some, or very few.

jpetyk
October 2nd, 2014, 07:57 AM
I can swim my age in a 50:bolt: a 42 sec 100 is a little too ambitious :drowning:

FindingMyInnerFish
October 2nd, 2014, 10:33 PM
Right--depends on the distance! 63 for a 50 scy... sure... 63 for 100... um... nope! (Now for 100 feet... then we're talking!) ;)

__steve__
October 3rd, 2014, 09:34 AM
For the 50 yds I'm close to half my age, but for 100 I'm about a decade too slow lol

Allen Stark
October 3rd, 2014, 11:22 AM
I believe 2 Masters swimmers have swum their age for 100 yd BR:Robert Strand and Rick Colella.Tim Shead may have. If he hasn't, he will when his shoulder heals.

pwb
October 3rd, 2014, 11:32 AM
Turned 50 yesterday, so I tried to swim a 50 sec 100 free. The best I could do was 52 with fins. Who has tried this without fins and been able to match their age? I think it's a good challenge. I suppose this feat could be done as early as mid 40's for some, or very few.I certainly can't do it today at 47, probably won't be able to do it at 48, might have a shot at 49 or 50 and hope to be able to safely do this by the time I'm 52!

Great challenge / idea.

sunruh
October 3rd, 2014, 01:12 PM
Dave Sims not only has done it, but keeps doing it!
just check the record board!!!

i'm a few months from doing it :D

hlopez84
October 3rd, 2014, 01:23 PM
I can swim 29 on a 50. A 29 on a 100 may require some sort of secondary propulsion gizmo!

knelson
October 3rd, 2014, 01:50 PM
Even more impressive is to do it long course!

Swimosaur
October 3rd, 2014, 03:14 PM
Dave Sims not only has done it, but keeps doing it!

As far as I can tell, David Sims was the youngest guy to do it, swimming 46.46 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=1140824) at age 47.

I might be able to make it by age 57 ... :bow:

sunruh
October 3rd, 2014, 03:32 PM
yeah the supersuit didnt hurt that any! :D
still a blazing fast time as in its just the national record!!!

Frank Thompson
October 3rd, 2014, 05:32 PM
[QUOTE=Swimosaur;301169]As far as I can tell, David Sims was the youngest guy to do it, swimming 46.46 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=1140824) at age 47.

Actually Matt Biondi accomplished this last spring at the Nationals in Santa Clara in the 100 free with a time of 46.83 and he was 2 years older than his age at 48 and he did not where a super suit.

rtodd
October 3rd, 2014, 10:17 PM
Wow. That's amazing. I think USMS should give recognition or an award of some sort for those that can do it at any age!

__steve__
October 4th, 2014, 09:41 AM
I believe Jim Thornton has done it long course

Rich Abrahams
October 4th, 2014, 11:07 AM
Even more impressive is to do it long course!

Jeff Farrell swam a 1:00.1 for the 100 LCM AT AGE 60 in 1998.

rtodd
October 4th, 2014, 11:11 AM
Believe me, it's impressive in yards too!!!

Frank Thompson
October 4th, 2014, 11:38 AM
Jeff Farrell swam a 1:00.1 for the 100 LCM AT AGE 60 in 1998.

And you swam a :58.61 at the age of 60 followed by Jack Groselle swimming it at 57.79 this year. Isn't more impressive to swim below your age in the 100 in either LCM and SCY? After looking at these I think its easier as you get older to hit the LCM times then the SCY times. Somebody like Matt Biondi will have to wait until he is in his 50's to match the LCM 100 Free times.

knelson
October 4th, 2014, 06:02 PM
I don't get your reasoning, Skip. Clearly Jack Groselle and Rich Abrahams can destroy their age in yards. It's much more difficult to swim your age in LCM because the race is 9% longer. If anyone can swim their age in long course meters, but not yards they must have REALLY bad turns!

Frank Thompson
October 4th, 2014, 11:02 PM
I don't get your reasoning, Skip. Clearly Jack Groselle and Rich Abrahams can destroy their age in yards. It's much more difficult to swim your age in LCM because the race is 9% longer. If anyone can swim their age in long course meters, but not yards they must have REALLY bad turns!

Kirk: I said that wrong. I was thinking about Matt Biondi going 54 for the LCM 100 Free which is almost as good as the SCY time he did and thinking as he get older he will match his age. Right now if he went 52 he would be 4 short and yet he is 2 ahead in SCY in the 100 distance.

SLOmmafan
October 8th, 2014, 06:42 PM
I'm perhaps missing the point of this whole challenge...but then again I am 30. A 50 is too short/fast to be impressive, and I am about 22 years away from the 100.

rtodd
October 8th, 2014, 08:38 PM
It's really a thing for older masters and quite an achievement all the way up till...........

Sportygeek
October 13th, 2014, 10:20 PM
I'm perhaps missing the point of this whole challenge...but then again I am 30. A 50 is too short/fast to be impressive, and I am about 22 years away from the 100.

Can you do 50 in all form strokes, LCM?

Not so easy - check the backstroke and breaststroke TT times: http://www.usms.org/comp/tt/toptenlist.php?CourseID=2&Year=2013&Sex=M&AgeGroupID=3. And our Australian TT: http://www.portal.aussi.org.au/ranking/ranking.php?type=0&display=best&gender=Male&course=LC&dist=50m&stroke=All+-+Top+10&group=30-34&year=2013&state=All

wnt2bfst
October 19th, 2014, 11:30 PM
You people are depressing me. At fifty I was was just trying to be 60. Missed it by .03.

orca1946
October 20th, 2014, 11:11 AM
As NOT a sprinter, I can do my age of 68 1/2 for a 50. How do we do 500's ?

knelson
October 20th, 2014, 12:28 PM
How do we do 500's ?

How about five seconds per year of age? Dave Radcliff first made it at age 73 with his 5:57 (73 * 5 = 365 seconds or 6:05).

Make it six seconds per year and it gets a tad easier. Someone 50 would need to swim a 5:00.

Rob Copeland
October 20th, 2014, 01:43 PM
Make it six seconds per year and it gets a tad easier. Someone 50 would need to swim a 5:00.6 seconds; really?!? Now you’re making it too easy. I was hoping to see you shoot for the 3:45 500SCY.

secondheart
October 20th, 2014, 03:42 PM
Swimming times will degenerate geometrically with age, so using a straight line approach to estimate a relationship between age groups may be misleading. Also, outliers such as Rick Colella and Laura Val would further skew this relationship.

Glenn
October 20th, 2014, 07:55 PM
USMS Meet Results Database Rankings (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/eventrank.php)

If I did this correctly, here is a list of 99 men ages 60 and above who have swum their age or better in 2013 - 2014 SCY season.

Glenn
October 20th, 2014, 08:02 PM
Looks like I didn't get it to send.

Go to Meet Results Database Rankings.

Change Season to 2013 - 2014

Fill in age 60 through 99

Change Display Top: to 100

First name should be Doug Martin age 60, 51.33 in the 100 free

Number 99 should be Carl Selles age 67, 1:01.16

The oldest to do 1:00 is Tom Landis at age 72 (1:00.76)

arthur
October 21st, 2014, 11:31 AM
Shooting your age is also a thing in golf. The record for oldest person to do was set in my home town when someone shot a 103 at age 103.

ande
October 21st, 2014, 12:08 PM
I'm 51
pretty sure I can do a 51 in the 1 free
long course maybe when I'm 59 or 60, doubt I can go a 57 or 58

jim thornton
October 21st, 2014, 04:12 PM
This year's event ranking for the 100 LCM freestyle had 8 guys in the 60-64 age group beating their ages:



1
Groselle, Jack R
60
57.79 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=2489736)
SYSM
2014 Bumpy Jones International Classic (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meet.php?MeetID=20140620BJ2014L)


2
Colella, Rick
63
59.04 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=2530854)
PSM
2014 Marriott U.S. Masters Swimming Summer National Championship (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meet.php?MeetID=20140813lcusmsL)


3
Martin, Doug
61
59.57 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=2535995)
ARKM
2014 FINA World Masters Championship (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meet.php?MeetID=20140809WORLDSL)


4
Williams, Bruce F
61
59.60 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=2531084)
RICE
2014 Marriott U.S. Masters Swimming Summer National Championship (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meet.php?MeetID=20140813lcusmsL)


5
Hedrick, Trip
60
59.66 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=2485312)
SYSM
MN Masters Long Course Meet 2014 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meet.php?MeetID=20140518MNLONGL)


6
Roth, Barry
60
1:01.25 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=2515745)
ARIZ
Arizona Masters Long Course State Meet (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meet.php?MeetID=20140726AZLCSTL)


7
Saint-Amour, Craig E
62
1:01.84 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=2530925)
REDT
2014 Marriott U.S. Masters Swimming Summer National Championship (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meet.php?MeetID=20140813lcusmsL)


8
Thornton, James
62
1:01.93 (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/swim.php?s=2529015)
1776
2014 Marriott U.S. Masters Swimming Summer National Championship (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/meet.php?MeetID=20140813lcusmsL)




Since FINA lets you round up in age, I was technically not yet 62, I was 61 and would not turn 62 for 40 days more! 40/365= 10.95 percent of a year, so technically I was 61.8905 years old and missed my age by 4 one hundredths, give or take.

I did, however, make it in SCM with a 1:00.15, even though that was swum in March when I was 61 would not turn 62 for another 190 days, thus making me technically 61.48 years old, comfortably within the margin!

Swimosaur
October 24th, 2014, 11:34 AM
Another way to "swim your age":

age x 100 free (on some interval)

Who is the oldest person to do it?

This Sunday 10/26/2014, to celebrate his 80th birthday, Bill Lauer will try it. 80 x 100. I don't know the interval, or if he'll take any rests. UTK student aquatic center.

Bill is a tough guy. He won World Championships this summer in M 80-84 100 fly, 200 fly, 400 free, and 400 IM. If anyone can do it, Bill can.

Swimosaur
October 26th, 2014, 08:28 PM
Bill is a tough guy.

Here's the workout Bill Lauer swam today, on his 80th birthday.


Warmup: 400 choice

Main sets: 80 x 100 as 10 sets of 8 x 100, with 1 min rest between sets.

1. 8 x 100 free on 2:00

2. 8 x 100 kick w/ fins on 2:00

3. 8 x 100 pull on 2:00

4. 8 x 100 IM on 2:15

5. 100 fly, 100 free,
100 back, 100 free,
100 breast, 100 free,
50/50 fly/back, 50/50 breast/free.
Strokes on 2:10, free on 1:50

6. 50/50 fly/free x 2 on 2:00
50/50 back/free x 2 on 2:00
50/50 breast/free x 2 on 2:00
100 IM on 2:00
100 free on 2:00

7. 25 fly, 75 free on 2:00
2nd length fly on 2:00
3rd length fly on 2:00
4th length fly on 2:00
same for back (4x100 on 2:00)

8. same for breast (4x100 on 2:00)
4 x 100 IM on 2:15

9. 8 x 100 pull on 2:00

10. 4 x 100 descend on 2:00
4 x 100 swimdown on 2:00

80 years old. The guy did the whole thing, as written. Did all the strokes, made all the intervals.

The rest of us stopped after #79, and let Bill do the 80th one by himself, while we all cheered. He swam fly on the last length of the 80th 100, because why not? It was awesome to watch.

knelson
October 27th, 2014, 01:16 PM
Wow. Very impressive. Go Bill!

jroddin
October 28th, 2014, 11:58 AM
The Montgomery Ancient Mariners had three swimmers accomplish this feat for SCY at a local meet last month (swim faster than their age for a 100 yard free):

Clay Britt (age 53)
Keith Wilson (age 57)
Dave Harmon (age 65)

rtodd
October 29th, 2014, 10:00 PM
The Montgomery Ancient Mariners had three swimmers accomplish this feat for SCY at a local meet last month (swim faster than their age for a 100 yard free):

Clay Britt (age 53)
Keith Wilson (age 57)
Dave Harmon (age 65)

That's impressive. I hope to do it someday!

jim thornton
October 30th, 2014, 07:00 PM
USMS Meet Results Database Rankings (http://www.usms.org/comp/meets/eventrank.php)

If I did this correctly, here is a list of 99 men ages 60 and above who have swum their age or better in 2013 - 2014 SCY season.

If you do the same thing with LCM times, the number is quite a bit less.

I started going through the times to see who beat their age by the widest margin, and if my math is correct, the honor goes to:



David Radcliff, 80, who swam a 71.82 (1:11.82)--an 8 second gap; followed by...
Dave Quiggan, age 70, who swam a 64.19--very close to a six second gap! Then...
James Elder, 71, 65.79--just over 5 seconds


Other wide multi-second gappers include:



Rick Colella, 63, 59:04
Lee Childs, 66, 62.89
Jack Groselle, 60, 57.79, was the youngest person who I could find who beat his age.


I couldn't find anyone under the 60-64 age group who accomplished their age or less in the 100 LCM freestyle. Dan Stephenson, 57, came closest with a 57.7.

In 2013, Jack Groselle, then 59, swam a 58.51, which may be youngest to do this. I checked the great Rich Abrahams, who beat his age at 60 and 61 but didn't make it while a 55-59 year old, the closest he came being the 58.23 he swam at age 57.

At this point, I would say a strong case could be made for Jack being the greatest "young old" 100 LCM free swimmer; Dave being the greatest "slightly less young old" swimmer; and David Radcliffe being the currently undisputed champion of the world!

Glenn
October 30th, 2014, 07:09 PM
If you do the same thing with LCM times, the number is quite a bit less.


Other wide multi-second gappers include:



Rick Colella, 63, 59:04
Lee Childs, 66, 62.89
Jack Groselle, 60, 57.79, was the youngest person who I could find who beat his age.




Thanks Jim. You did, however, miss one in the LCM times...me. I went 1:03.01 (63.01) this summer as a 65 year old.

jim thornton
October 30th, 2014, 07:23 PM
Thanks Jim. You did, however, miss one in the LCM times...me. I went 1:03.01 (63.01) this summer as a 65 year old.

Did not in any way mean to rob you of your fantastic accomplishment, Glenn, and let me add my even greater congratulations on your 400 SCM world record.

I was listing folks who beat their age by multiple seconds (i.e., close to 3 or more) and I should have noted you in this rare fraternity.

The younger you are, the harder it is--obviously, few toddlers at age 3, for example, can swim a sub-3 second 100 LCM freestyle! The reason I included Jack was that, as far as I can tell, he is the youngest person to have ever accomplished this, at least in the US, and the only one I could find who has yet done it in the 55-59 age group.

As a fellow mathematically fascinated older swimmer, what do you think should be the criteria for official admittance into the "beating your age" club? Should the swimmer have to go with actual age or FINA age, for instance? I don't know if you saw my earlier post, but I too would qualify for admission to the rarefied fraternity if FINA age counts, but if it's actual age (in my case, FINA 62 minus a couple months till my birthday), I would have missed it by a few hundredths.

Am I deluding myself, in other words, when I say to you, brother Glenn, I salute you, fellow Death-Defying Sub-Ageman?

Allen Stark
October 30th, 2014, 08:12 PM
Dave Radcliffe is a great guy and ageless though I imagine there is a picture of him somewhere that is showing it's age.
On the women's side,in yards-Laura Val(who else) went 54.83 at age 55.

Glenn
October 30th, 2014, 08:53 PM
Jim,

I suppose the criteria should be your yards age for yards and your meters age for meters. However, someone like Jim McConica who ages up in December gets an entire year in meters in the next age group three days after he actually ages up in December. So Jim will be 64 at the end of December, but come January 1 he will be 65! Say goodbye to my 400 SCM record.

jim thornton
October 30th, 2014, 09:31 PM
Dave Radcliffe is a great guy and ageless though I imagine there is a picture of him somewhere that is showing it's age.
On the women's side,in yards-Laura Val(who else) went 54.83 at age 55.

Maybe USMS should come up with an honor we could call the Radcliffe Cup. I do think it's amazing that an 80 year old guy can swim over 8 seconds faster in the 100 LCM than his age. I wonder if he will continue to extend his gap? As of now, it often seems people have their best times when first entering the new age group. If pursuit of making the Top 10 in the Radcliff Cup were to catch on, then maybe we all would have more motivation to do better times throughout the age group.

As for Laura Val, do you know if she, or any other woman, has accomplished the feat in LCM? If not, it doesn't really matter. Beating your age is kind of an arbitrary distinction (as is, for that matter, the selection of the 100 as the designated length, be it yards, short course meters, or long course meters.)

The Radcliffe Cup, as I am now envisioning it, would be the difference between a swimmer's age and his or her time in the 100 in any course. The greater the discrepancy, the better the placement. So, for instance, in the 100 LCM breaststroke, Allen, your 79.88 at age 65 (differential + <15 seconds) would definitely place quite high, although Ken Frost's 83.65 at age 70 (differential + <14 seconds) would beat you. (Don't have the energy to rummage through all the other times, but I think you guys are the top two 100 LCM breaststrokers in the Radcliff Cup sweepstakes.

I suspect somebody with training in computer processing could easily run the event rankings and/or Top 10 lists each year through some kind of mathematical Cuisinart at the conclusion of each season and calculate the Top 10 Radcliff Cuppians for all 100s in SCY, SCM, and LCM. I think it could be an excellent way to motivate us geezers!



Jim,

I suppose the criteria should be your yards age for yards and your meters age for meters. However, someone like Jim McConica who ages up in December gets an entire year in meters in the next age group three days after he actually ages up in December. So Jim will be 64 at the end of December, but come January 1 he will be 65! Say goodbye to my 400 SCM record.

Enjoy it while you own it! As Jimmy Carter so aptly put, Life is unfair! You have the advantage of being slightly older than Jim McConica. I have the advantage of being slightly older than Jack Groselle. Michael Phelps, should he swim masters one day, has the advantage of being slightly older than whatever phenome quickly supplants him.

You have done remarkably well, Glenn, and I must say that I truly admire you for your efforts!

Sportygeek
December 31st, 2014, 09:40 PM
As for Laura Val, do you know if she, or any other woman, has accomplished the feat in LCM? If not, it doesn't really matter. Beating your age is kind of an arbitrary distinction (as is, for that matter, the selection of the 100 as the designated length, be it yards, short course meters, or long course meters.)

New Year's Day researching.

Short answer: LCM, no. SCM, maybe.

The SCM record lists include:
Laura Val, 2013 (so age 62, I think?) - 1:03.84
Yoshiko Osaki, 2009 (born March 1938, so 71) - 1:12.97
...either or both may have done similar times a year or two later!

orca1946
January 1st, 2015, 11:59 AM
Soon to be 69 - so yes I can swim my age. Maybe only once, not any repeats!!