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Schaefer
October 9th, 2014, 04:46 PM
Hi,

I am looking for training method to improce sprint speed. I used to swim competitively when I was young, stopped a little more than 10 years ago (i am 32).

Now I am trying to improve my 50 free SCM. I just restarted swimming this year and swam my 50 in pratices at 27.5.
I would love to get back to 24.9. Any tips or ideas on the trainig type? (technique should be fine and I know what to improve, its mostly the training type I am not so sure)

I train 3 times a week and i'll eventually go to 4-5 when my body can handle it.

Thanks!

ande
October 9th, 2014, 05:24 PM
Ultra Short Race Pace Training
http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?22783-Ultra-Short-Training-At-Race-Pace

Schaefer
October 9th, 2014, 05:38 PM
Thanks Andy!

Looking at the set in example, I really don't think I could maintain my 100 pace 30 time with only 15 sec rest. What do you do when you slow down. Take some time until you can resume with the same speed (I assume lactate training is not really the point).

Also can you do this more than twice a week since the distance are so short?

Thanks again

__steve__
October 9th, 2014, 10:28 PM
Thanks Andy!

Looking at the set in example, I really don't think I could maintain my 100 pace 30 time with only 15 sec rest.
I think it would be with 0:20 rest


adapted from Glenn G.:

"During the first 5, don't worry about hitting the time exactly, from # 6 on, if you hit the target time - then continue. If you miss the target time then you rest until the next repeat would have started, then do the next one. Once you have missed three total the set is over, or if you miss two in a row with the extra rest, the set is over. You might want to work up to two sets a day.

You might have to experiment with the distance and the target time to see what works. It should be challenging but not so hard that you can only make 3 or 4. But it should not be so easy that you make all thirty either. If you make all 30, the target time is too easy."

For me, going 50RP, even efforts of 15m is quite challenging.

Glenn
October 10th, 2014, 01:21 PM
I have been using USRPT (ultra short race pace training) for a year and have had great success. I however, have been training for the 400/500.

My opinion is that using USRPT for the 50 is not as good. The reason is you really can only do 25s at the most, which is OK, and when you do 12 1/2s you can't get an accurate time. You may want to try 25s at 50 race pace. Do not start at your target time per 25. Add a second or second and a half. The reason for that is so you can get some success and get used to the way these are done. These sets are tough and if you start by using your "real" target time, you might get discouraged and quit.

For 25s the rest is :15 seconds (for 50 repeats like I do and above, the rest is always :20 seconds). What you want to do once you get the hang of it, is to try each time to move the first failure i.e. the first one where you miss your target time, further down the road. In other words, lets say you can do 7 at your target time today then you hit your first failure, tomorrow try to get to # 8 before your first failure.

Whatever else you do, with USRPT you must go until failure on each set. It is never the goal to do all 20 or 30 in the set. The goal is to hit your race pace target time for as long as you can and essentially to stop the set when you can no longer do it. In regular training (we call it traditional training), you do the entire set no matter what, even if your times are not even near race pace. But in USRPT the set is over once you cannot hold the race pace anymore. That way you are not going to exhaustion...you will be tired, but you won't be thrashed. Tired is OK, thrashed is not.

The other thing you might check out is HIT - high intensity training. There is section on the USMS forum for workouts. There is one for HIT, however, the workouts that are currently being posted, in my opinion, are not HIT. If you can find the workouts that Leslie Livingston posted to the Forum last year, I think you would be better off. Her workouts were designed for the 50 sprinter and she herself held (or still holds) I think three of the 50m/y national records in her age group.

Good luck.

Glenn Gruber

Rich Abrahams
October 10th, 2014, 06:29 PM
It may be helpful to remember that a 50 race is between 30% and 60% start and turn. You need to spend a significant amount of time improving these elements. Gary Hall Sr. Has an excellent series on freestyle flip turns at the Race Club website.

Allen Stark
October 10th, 2014, 08:48 PM
The other thing you might check out is HIT - high intensity training. There is section on the USMS forum for workouts. There is one for HIT, however, the workouts that are currently being posted, in my opinion, are not HIT. If you can find the workouts that Leslie Livingston posted to the Forum last year, I think you would be better off. Her workouts were designed for the 50 sprinter and she herself held (or still holds) I think three of the 50m/y national records in her age group.

Good luck.

Glenn Gruber
I am glad you made that comment.I haven't checked out the HIT thread for some time.I loved Leslie's workouts,but the new ones didn't seem HIT to me either,so I stopped reading them.

Michael Heather
October 12th, 2014, 02:43 AM
Rich is right, 50s require a lot of concentration on the start and turn. It also helps to cross train with weights and ample amounts of stretching. If you only want help in swimming, do many of your 25s as 35s (with a turn). No sense training for a race and not training for the turn and subsequent pushoff.

__steve__
October 12th, 2014, 10:16 AM
I bet the finish can be worth > 0.1seconds of improvement too

ande
October 13th, 2014, 01:28 PM
Here's

Swim Faster Faster (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?4229-Ande-s-Swimming-Tips-Swimming-Faster-Faster&p=300640&viewfull=1#post300640)

there's a thread here called Ande's Swimming Blog that has all my workouts from Mar 2005 - Sep 2008. From late 2007 through 2008 when I was 44 & 45. I focused on strength and speed. It might help you to follow a season or 2 during that time. Start start around Dec 2007& you'll see each practice I did going into May 2008 SCY Nats in Austin & beyond.
During that time I swam faster than I probably ever will again. I was very focused on strength and speed and was happy with my improvements from 2007.

Andes Blog Dec 2007 (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?4298-Ande-s-Swimming-Blog/page90)

Zones Mar 2008 (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?4298-Ande-s-Swimming-Blog/page102)

Nats May 2008 (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?4298-Ande-s-Swimming-Blog/page108)

LCM Meet June 2008 (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?4298-Ande-s-Swimming-Blog/page113)

YOu can swim faster faster.
Hope they help,

Ande

The Fortress
October 14th, 2014, 03:52 PM
I have been using USRPT (ultra short race pace training) for a year and have had great success. I however, have been training for the 400/500.

My opinion is that using USRPT for the 50 is not as good. The reason is you really can only do 25s at the most, which is OK, and when you do 12 1/2s you can't get an accurate time. You may want to try 25s at 50 race pace. Do not start at your target time per 25. Add a second or second and a half. The reason for that is so you can get some success and get used to the way these are done. These sets are tough and if you start by using your "real" target time, you might get discouraged and quit.

The other thing you might check out is HIT - high intensity training. There is section on the USMS forum for workouts. There is one for HIT, however, the workouts that are currently being posted, in my opinion, are not HIT. If you can find the workouts that Leslie Livingston posted to the Forum last year, I think you would be better off. Her workouts were designed for the 50 sprinter and she herself held (or still holds) I think three of the 50m/y national records in her age group.

Good luck.

Glenn Gruber

Schaefer,

Glenn is right. USRPT has nothing to do with 50s. 50s are all out efforts, whereas USRPT is about sustaining X race pace over short distances. As a sprinter, the only USRPT type set that I periodically do is sets of 25s at 100 pace. It seems like a non-horrible way to train for 100s. I don't agree with Rushall's disdain for kicking or drylands either; I think both are important for sprinters.

If you are solely concentrated on 50s, you can, as Glenn mentioned, refer to the two years of my HIT workouts from 2012-13. They were written for 50/100 sprinters, and I have used those workouts for years. I do still have six NRs in the 50 sprints, though I had a close call with one this summer. Ande also has a blog where he did speed workouts for years.

And, yes, you must work on your start, turn and underwaters. Executing these elements properly is most of the race.

ande
October 15th, 2014, 11:11 AM
Schaefer,

Glenn is right. USRPT has nothing to do with 50s. 50s are all out efforts, whereas USRPT is about sustaining X race pace over short distances. As a sprinter, the only USRPT type set that I periodically do is sets of 25s at 100 pace. It seems like a non-horrible way to train for 100s. I don't agree with Rushall's disdain for kicking or drylands either; I think both are important for sprinters.

If you are solely concentrated on 50s, you can, as Glenn mentioned, refer to the two years of my HIT workouts from 2012-13. They were written for 50/100 sprinters, and I have used those workouts for years. I do still have six NRs in the 50 sprints, though I had a close call with one this summer. Ande also has a blog where he did speed workouts for years.

And, yes, you must work on your start, turn and underwaters. Executing these elements properly is most of the race.

agreed

Leslie wrote the USMS HIT Workouts for a year or 2
http://forums.usms.org/forumdisplay.php?115

and is quite accomplished
http://www.usms.org/people/038W8

Schaefer
October 15th, 2014, 01:46 PM
Thanks everyone for all the good info!

Sadly I can't look at Leslie workout (I am not a USMS, I am Canadian, sorry for hijacking your forum but our is pretty bad).

I am looking into Ande blog and evrything is pretty interesting! Hopfully I can come down under 25 in my SCM before we start the LCM season (Sadly, we don't swim SCY, that would be really good for me since I am better the shorter it is and I have excellent turns).

The Fortress
October 15th, 2014, 03:53 PM
Thanks everyone for all the good info!

Sadly I can't look at Leslie workout (I am not a USMS, I am Canadian, sorry for hijacking your forum but our is pretty bad).

I am looking into Ande blog and evrything is pretty interesting! Hopfully I can come down under 25 in my SCM before we start the LCM season (Sadly, we don't swim SCY, that would be really good for me since I am better the shorter it is and I have excellent turns).

I have a blog you could refer to as well, which includes virtually all HIT workouts over many years. Lately, I'm just kicking though due to an RC tear, so better to refer to earlier workouts.