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TSB.
January 27th, 2015, 05:21 PM
50m free - 00:27
100m free - 00:59
200m free - 02:07
400m free - 04:37
750m free - 09:17
1500m free - 18:59

I am hoping to reach or exceed these times by the end of 2015. Has anybody got any advice? Maybe a few good sets/sessions?
Thanks,
TSB

mo89564
January 27th, 2015, 10:36 PM
What are your times right now? How are your workouts structured?

Honestly, I think while it is great to have goals for a wide variety of events, perhaps you should focus on your best three freestyle events for training purposes. Are you a sprinter or distance or in between?

TSB.
January 28th, 2015, 11:09 AM
50m free is 30secs without a dive.
100m free is 1:06 without a dive.
200m free is probably about 2:19 without a dive.
400m free is 5:16 without dive but this was a while back.
750m is easily under 10:32 without a dive.

Short term (this year) I will primarily be focusing on 200m, 400m, 750m. But long term I will be focused on 750m and 1500m.
I train three times a week for 1 and a half hours each time. The third one is normally quite easy and totals up to 7500m, the other two are intense sessions that total up to 5500m.

Thanks,
TSB

Schaefer
January 28th, 2015, 11:23 AM
7500m in 1:30h can't be easy.....at all ;-)

How old are you exactly, cutting 3sec in a year in a 50 especially if you train for longer distance would be quite the accomplishment.
I would with a vo2max pratice for the first of the week. Something like 8-10x100 on 1:20-1:25 (you shouldn't get much more than 5-10sec rest in between and keeping that pace should be pretty hard.
Second pratice would be easy, technique work.
Third I would fo for volume, so set of 200-400m.

You might need to add a 4th session to meet these goals thougt.

TSB.
January 28th, 2015, 12:36 PM
Thanks for the sessions!
One set that I currently enjoy is this:
5 x 100m hitting 1:22 or lower with 10 sec between.
1 x 400m and hit 5:40 or lower, 40 sec rest after.
5 x 100m hitting 1:22 or lower with 10 sec between.
1 x 400m and hit 5:40 or lower, 40 sec rest after.
5 x 100m hitting 1:22 or lower with 10 sec between.
1 x 400m and finish.
Is this session any good? It is my favourite to do at the moment, but is it effective and beneficial? Yes I agree that I might need to add an extra swim in, it is hard with the pool times though. Also would be difficult to fit it in with all my other training (triathlon). Actually if I was going to fit in another swim where do you think the best place to put it would be in my schedule?:
Monday: 4 mile run followed by 9 miles warm down on the turbo.
Tuesday: 3 mile run before or after a swim (average 5000m)
Wednesday: 1 hour bike ride on the turbo in winter, 18 miles.
Thursday: Swim, average of 5500m.
Friday: 1-3 mile very easy jog, mainly my rest day though.
Saturday: 25-30 mile club ride followed by easy swim average, 7000m.
Sunday: Cycle 18 miles, run 3 miles.
Thanks for the advice :)
TSB.









Aha, sorry I forgot to mention the third session is normally up to 2 hours!

fatboy
January 28th, 2015, 05:27 PM
Good luck with exceeding your goals. I will leave the advice to others with more expertise, but I am wondering why you have a 750m goal instead of an 800m goal?

TSB.
January 28th, 2015, 05:41 PM
Aha and 750m is a triathlon distance.

Sportygeek
January 28th, 2015, 06:25 PM
Aha and 750m is a triathlon distance.

Do you race triathlons with pool swims, or open water swims? Especially if the latter, conditions on the day (and how well you sight) can make a significant difference to your time.

If you race both pool meets and Sprint triathlon, I suggest you make an 800m pool race goal - just you in a lane, swimming 800m. Nothing to make you slower (eg swimming off course, or crowding in a pool triathlon swim), nothing to make you faster (eg wetsuit or drafting)

Gary P
January 28th, 2015, 08:59 PM
Short term (this year) I will primarily be focusing on 200m, 400m, 750m. But long term I will be focused on 750m and 1500m.
I train three times a week for 1 and a half hours each time.

The bad news is you really don't have time to train to specific goal times on all those events. The good news is that your goal pace for the 750 and 1500 are so close it won't take much to get to your 1500 goal once you've hit it for the 750, especially since you're getting lots of cardio elsewhere.

I'd suggest you pick one other event, the 200, to focus on and let the times on the 50, 100, and 400 fall where they may at the end of the season.

I would also suggest you look at Ultra Short Race Pace Training. The great thing about it is that you get tangible feedback in every practice about how close you are getting to your goals. A typical workout for someone training for the 200 free and the 750/1500 free would look something like this:

600-800 warmup

30 50's at 200 race pace with 20 seconds rest

300 EZ recovery

5 min rest

30 75's at 750/1500 race pace* with 20 seconds rest

300-500 cool down.

*(once you get the 750 time where you want it, change to 100's at the same pace, still with 20 seconds rest)

The trick is, every repetition in the main sets needs to be at race pace. You have a target for each segment based on the race pace. If you miss your target time, you sit out a minute, then resume. If you miss the target time twice in a row, or 3 times total, you're done with the set no matter whether you got to the end or not. So you're rarely going to get all 30 in. When you do, you're ready to increase the pace.


I know it sounds counterintuitive to train for 200's by swimming 50's, the 750 by swimming 75's, and the 1500 by swimming 100's. The truth is, however, that it gives you lots of repetition at the actual pace you're going to swim in those races.

(NOTE: you need to start at your current race pace, not your goal race pace, or you'll be failing to hit the target times too early in the sets and not get enough volume of repetitions)

ande
January 29th, 2015, 10:59 AM
Hi

Goals are just targets.
They specify your desire, your intentions, and the ability you hope to develop from training.

What matters are:

1) your starting point (your current ability), do fast swims for time.
write them down and retest from time to time.

2) your technique (Are you making any errors?)

3) your training:
How many times a week?
How many meters in each practice?
what kind of sets are you doing?
Are you training alone or with a group?
Are you coached?

4) what suit do you wear in races?
Tech suits make a difference.
Don't train in them, but get a good suit for your meets, races, and occasional fast practice swims for time.

here's some info that might help you:

http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?4298-Ande-s-Swimming-Blog

http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?4229-Ande-s-Swimming-Tips-Swimming-Faster-Faster&p=300640&viewfull=1#post300640

TSB.
January 29th, 2015, 11:02 AM
Thanks for that great advice Gary!
You obviously know what you are talking about. I have come across Ultra Short Race Pace recently, haven't given it a go yet though, I will probably try it tonight using the session you just gave me.
Just one question, wouldn't 30 x 50m be training your anaerobic system rather than your aerobic system?
Thanks again
TSB

Schaefer
January 29th, 2015, 11:14 AM
I am not an expert on USRPT, but 30 repetition with only 20sec rest is definitly aerobic and not anaerobic. To train your anareobic system, you need to be ale to push as much as you can each rep, which you can never do 30 time with only 20sec.

Gary P
January 29th, 2015, 11:34 AM
The 20 seconds rest is specifically chosen because it's not enough for you to fully recover your oxygen debt, but you get just enough recovery to be able to perform well over the race distance at actual race pace in a semi-fatigued state similar to what you'll experience in the race.


Given that your current 200 is ~2:19, I'd suggest a target time of :35 on the 50's with an interval if :55. On the 75's I'd suggest a :56 target and a 1:15 interval.

Allen Stark
January 29th, 2015, 07:30 PM
I am not an expert on USRPT, but 30 repetition with only 20sec rest is definitly aerobic and not anaerobic. To train your anareobic system, you need to be ale to push as much as you can each rep, which you can never do 30 time with only 20sec.

As I understand it Rushall is not interested in training the anaerobic system,rather he wants to get as many yards at race pace as possible by not stressing the anaerobic system.That is a problem I have with doing only USRPT,so I do one USRPT and one HIT set in each mid-season workout.(I don't do HIT early in the season as it is too hard on my joints.)

Glenn
January 29th, 2015, 09:16 PM
I am not an expert on USRPT, but 30 repetition with only 20sec rest is definitly aerobic and not anaerobic. To train your anareobic system, you need to be ale to push as much as you can each rep, which you can never do 30 time with only 20sec.

Unlike traditional sets, USRPT sets are done to failure. So even though the set is called 30 x 50, you never do 30 fifties, because if you can do all 30, the time you are trying to hold is too easy. I can guarantee you that doing them that way is not aerobic in any way. I am toast by the time I get my third failure and it is no where near # 30.

Gary P
January 29th, 2015, 10:43 PM
It's complicated metabolic stuff which I only have a vague understanding of, but the principal physiological goal of USRPT is to convert, through a pariticular training process, Type IIb muscle fibers, which are fast twitch anaerobic, into Type IIa, which are fast twitch fibers that run on oxygen. This stimulation occurs in the threshold zone between aerobic and anaerobic. USRPT sets are designed to keep you in that threshold zone as long as possible. Its like a hybrid metabolism; anaerobic muscle fibers that actually run on oxygen.

http://coachsci.sdsu.edu/swim/bullets/45c%20AEROBIC%20NOT%20ENOUGH.pdf

TSB.
January 30th, 2015, 11:22 AM
Allen mentioned a HIT set? What is HIT?
Has anyone heard of CSS training? What are your views on that?
I tried my first USRPT yesterday. I managed 12 of the 30 x 50m's. I did each one on 35, although my PB for 200m is only 2:28 (quite old).
I think USRPT will be very effective in my training :)

__steve__
January 30th, 2015, 07:45 PM
I managed 12 of the 30 x 50m's. I did each one on 35Do you mean you held 35's on 0:55? That would be 2:20 200m race pace. You would likely benefit from USRP if you enjoy the work


Allen mentioned a HIT set? What is HIT?
High intensity training, a favorite among the sprinters:)

Trondi
January 31st, 2015, 06:24 AM
I know it sounds counterintuitive to train for 200's by swimming 50's, the 750 by swimming 75's, and the 1500 by swimming 100's. The truth is, however, that it gives you lots of repetition at the actual pace you're going to swim in those races.



Not too counter-intuitive in my experience. Whenever I have had PBs at 50/100m I have always had PBs or near PBs at 400/800/1500m too. As you say fast pacing is fast pacing. It leads to fast racing!

TSB.
January 31st, 2015, 12:53 PM
Yes I meant I held 35's on 0:55 aha :)
I think I could at least swim a 2:18 now for 200m, but I have to get out and do it! :D
If I am swimming three times a week, how many USRPT sessions should I do? Or should all three of my swims be USRPT?
Cheers,
TSB

Glenn
January 31st, 2015, 01:15 PM
If I am swimming three times a week, how many USRPT sessions should I do? Or should all three of my swims be USRPT?

Of course being an advocate for USRPT, I think you should do it at every swim practice!

Gary P
January 31st, 2015, 08:03 PM
Y
If I am swimming three times a week, how many USRPT sessions should I do? Or should all three of my swims be USRPT?


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