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biestieboy58
March 30th, 2015, 06:13 PM
I have just started back with my trainer at the gym. I am really liking the way I am looking, but the trainer, though a total beast, is not a swimmer, and although he seems to have a general idea of what I want to accomplish, I want to be sure the results I am getting in terms of my appearance translate into better results in the pool.

I am a sprinter (mostly breast and free as well), so I want to build strength, maintain/increase flexibility, and minimize muscle fatigue (while racing, of course).

When I was growing up and swimming (in the late 60s and early 70s), we were told to avoid weight training. Now I know that has been completely debunked, but I am guessing there is a wrong way and a right way to do it vis-a-vis swimming.

Any suggestions for what I should be doing? I am guessing I would need a rotation of 3 or 4 different workouts to hit all the right spots.

Gary
Brooklyn, NY

Kenny100
March 30th, 2015, 06:40 PM
I would recommend lat pull down, lat rows, tricep extensions, leg presses, leg curls and leg extensions. Also incline bench presses with dumb bells. I normally do 3 sets per exercise, 6 to 12 reps per set-no more than three times per week



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StewartACarroll
March 30th, 2015, 06:43 PM
I am a recovering swimmer also. I was out 20+ years and over the past 18months have added weights, dryland and yoga to my swimming routine. I try to make my weight exercises as specific to my swimming as possible. I do a lot of core work which really helps swimming. I also have improved my kick no end over the last year and do a lot of leg specific strength exercises such as leg press and extensions(walls and starts), lunges and squats which help with quads(free and backstroke kick). I have also been using the vasa swim trainer and have been using bands for supporter and stabilizer muscles on my shoulders has helped. Did I mention I do a lot of core exercises too. Good luck.

orca1946
March 30th, 2015, 06:44 PM
Tell the guy you pay to research what muscles swimmers use. If he does not know , then you might have the wrong guy.

Stevepowell
March 31st, 2015, 09:04 AM
http://bretcontreras.com/five-considerations-when-training-swimmers/

1. Don’t be too specific:
A lot of emphasis is put on “sport-specific” movements (swim bench, cable crossovers, straight arm pulldowns, etc.). Unfortunately, the transference of these movements is uncertain and likely minimal to the sports of swimming. Every land exercise you create is far from the demands in the pool. Despite visual similarities, every swimmer uses unique yet imperceptible microadjustments in their strokes to optimize balance, force, and deceleration. It is impossible to replicate these movements on land and attempting to be too “sport specific” may lead to confused motor programming (McGuff 2009). Therefore, stay away from specificity to prevent motor program confusion and returning to these resisted patterns when fatigue occurs in the pool. Instead, building motor control and learning the big movements (squats, partial deadlifts, bench press) is ideal. Moreover, performing the similar movements outside of the pool increases the chance of overuse injuries and time away from the most specific form of training…swimming (Stiff 2000; Vermeil 2004).

__steve__
March 31st, 2015, 11:39 AM
The weight training videos I have seen top swimmers in typically show them using classic Olympic lifts

james lucas
March 31st, 2015, 12:20 PM
Instead, building motor control and learning the big movements (squats, partial deadlifts, bench press) is ideal.
This book may be worth a look (it's all about the Big Movements - the few exercises that work the big muscle groups, eg: squats):

http://www.amazon.com/Starting-Strength-3rd-Mark-Rippetoe/dp/0982522738

Allen Stark
March 31st, 2015, 03:48 PM
I'm not sure I'd put bench press in the "Big Movements" group.It seems more isolating to me and it can be hard on the shoulders.

mpmartin
March 31st, 2015, 05:46 PM
I'm not sure I'd put bench press in the "Big Movements" group.It seems more isolating to me and it can be hard on the shoulders.

The Big movements theory is really a mass building - body builder concept.

__steve__
March 31st, 2015, 08:44 PM
Most of my injuries these days are caused in the weight room. I generally keep the reps higher than 10 and avoid pushing the last few and its been going fine thus far. For Olympic lifts, the only ones I can do properly are deadlifts and snatches (with not so heavy weight at all lol). I don't even bother with bench presses or squats because I usually end up injuring myself. My new favorite exercise however, because it doesn't bother my back and really loads large muscle groups, are single leg deadlifts. I either use dumbells or a machine for these.

fritznh
March 31st, 2015, 09:10 PM
I have just started back with my trainer at the gym. I am really liking the way I am looking, but the trainer, though a total beast, is not a swimmer, and although he seems to have a general idea of what I want to accomplish, I want to be sure the results I am getting in terms of my appearance translate into better results in the pool.

I am a sprinter (mostly breast and free as well), so I want to build strength, maintain/increase flexibility, and minimize muscle fatigue (while racing, of course).

When I was growing up and swimming (in the late 60s and early 70s), we were told to avoid weight training. Now I know that has been completely debunked, but I am guessing there is a wrong way and a right way to do it vis-a-vis swimming.

Any suggestions for what I should be doing? I am guessing I would need a rotation of 3 or 4 different workouts to hit all the right spots.

Gary
Brooklyn, NY

If you were growing up swimming in the late 60's and early 70's, that puts you about 10 years ahead of me (late 70's and early 80's). I took 20 years off to let my shoulders heal up and started swimming about five years ago. I lifted weights in the years between, but every time I'd switch sports I'd get hurt. So I went back to swimming masters which is a lot more pleasant than swimming in college in the 80's. Most of my lifting is focused on injury prevention, with little teeny weights and pulleys to keep my rotator cuffs rotating and my knees attached to my legs. I also do yoga at least once a week.

For me injury is the enemy, and concentrating on a single muscle group is a good way to get injured. I haven't been 20 for more than 30 years and my recovery time is terrible, so by rotating weight exercises I don't blow anything out and I can still swim three to four times per week (at about 2500-3000 yards) without having my shoulders act up. I admit doing flat bench regularly because it never bothered my shoulder joints, and I do fairly full squats (down to where my quads are parallel with the floor, but no further) with at most body weight on the bar.

I am also a sprinter, so it is fairly easy to add weight, but I've found that if I go up in weight (like in squats or lat pulldowns) I can get hurt fairly easily. So I do more repetitions with less weight and get a similar benefit, but avoid injury. I'd work with your trainer on injury prevention and you'll probably be ahead of the game.

Eaglesrest
April 1st, 2015, 04:30 AM
I have just started back with my trainer at the gym. I am really liking the way I am looking, but the trainer, though a total beast, is not a swimmer, and although he seems to have a general idea of what I want to accomplish, I want to be sure the results I am getting in terms of my appearance translate into better results in the pool.

I am a sprinter (mostly breast and free as well), so I want to build strength, maintain/increase flexibility, and minimize muscle fatigue (while racing, of course).

When I was growing up and swimming (in the late 60s and early 70s), we were told to avoid weight training. Now I know that has been completely debunked, but I am guessing there is a wrong way and a right way to do it vis-a-vis swimming.

Any suggestions for what I should be doing? I am guessing I would need a rotation of 3 or 4 different workouts to hit all the right spots.

Gary
Brooklyn, NY
I use the Dave Salo 'Complete conditioning....' book, with some support from the 'Swimming Anatomy' book by Ian McLeod.

I usually do 3 land-training sessions per week, with exercises selected from the swimming anatomy book. The Salo book has some excellent year round plans for different levels of ability, which you can adapt to suit your personal situ.

While there may be some debate on whether swimming specific exercises have benefit, I rarely train muscles that aren't primarily engaged in my focus event - front crawl.

As a sprinter, weight training really helps improve my in-water times, albeit not without significant risk of injury. It's a balance between lifting the maximum possible weight (at the right time), while not pushing too hard and too often which can at best lead to significant soreness, and at worst injury.

Sometimes I really feel like I'm pushing my luck, particularly on the shoulders when benching and lat pull downs, and while I know it's not sustainable long-term as an aging masters swimmer, the max effort to exhaustion really improves my times after taper.

Stevepowell
April 1st, 2015, 08:42 AM
I confess to (probably dangerously) heavy weight on the pull down and pull overs. Everything else is moderate weight and reps.
Bench DBs 2x(8@45), Deads 2 or 3 @225, Machine leg press 2x(10@ 250ish), speedbag work; planks, airsquats and pushups thoughout
the day. I'm not very fast yet, but improving.

__steve__
April 1st, 2015, 03:42 PM
I confess to (probably dangerously) heavy weight on the pull down .. I already pushed my luck too far on those - right rear deltoid and lower bicep tendon. I would put 40+lbs over my BW on the machine and knock out a set of a few reps, now I can only use no more than 150lbs and do plenty of reps. For some reason these injuries seem to resist healing (maybe it's time for a shot).


Like Eaglesrest said
"It's a balance between lifting the maximum possible weight (at the right time), while not pushing too hard and too often"