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Tarzan
March 18th, 2004, 10:24 AM
What are the possible advantages and disadvantages of training wearing girl suits to try and increase the drag resistance?

aquageek
March 18th, 2004, 10:32 AM
Advantages - none
Disadvantage - you look like a freak

I've seen some goofy stuff over the years and trained with many teams but, come on, I've never seen this and hope I never do.

Now, girls training in guy's suits, that's a different story altogether.

Tarzan
March 18th, 2004, 10:41 AM
It would seem like you have more drag to me. I would appreciate at least one indept reply that would prove or dissprove this. (I"m neutral, so you won't be stepping on my toes).

aquageek
March 18th, 2004, 10:47 AM
I can't resist - do you want more drag or to dress in drag? If you want more drag, but a MALE drag suit. They make plenty out there. They also make female drag suits if you are dead set in wearing a female suit but I'm sure you can find a sufficient male suit.

If you want to dress in drag, well, to each, his/her own.

tjburk
March 18th, 2004, 10:50 AM
I am kind of with geek on this! Not a good idea unless you like wearing girls things (No offense intended). I would recommend buying a drag suit if that's what you want. Other suggestions and things I have my kids use are: tennis shoes, t-shirts, pants etc. There are a lot of products out there that are cheaper to use then buying another full swim suit!;)

Tarzan
March 18th, 2004, 10:51 AM
Well, to be totally honest, I agree with you. However I know of a swim team that wears girl suits when they practice. And since I am of the opinion there are pleanty of "guy drag suits" why would you need to wear girl suits? I also though wearing a girl suit would mess up your strokes since you have added pressure to your shoulders etc.

knelson
March 18th, 2004, 10:52 AM
I'd say the disadvantage of trying to add drag, regardless of how it's done, is that you will change your body position to try to minimize this drag. This body position change may NOT be beneficial when the drag is removed, such as in a race.

And, yes, the other disadvantage is you will look like a freak :)

knelson
March 18th, 2004, 10:55 AM
Originally posted by tjburk
Other suggestions and things I have my kids use are: tennis shoes, t-shirts, pants etc.

This kind of thing will definitely mess up your stroke and body position and probably greatly increase your chance of injury. Any coach advocating using these kind of things for training is a damn fool, IMO.

aquageek
March 18th, 2004, 11:07 AM
I have to think this thread is a joke. If there is some coach who thinks dressing boys like girls for added drag is a good idea, he should be required to wear a dress and high heels while he coaches.

I'd take my kids off that team in a skinny minute. That coach is a kook.

Tarzan
March 18th, 2004, 11:17 AM
I'd say the disadvantage of trying to add drag, regardless of how it's done, is that you will change your body position to try to minimize this drag. This body position change may NOT be beneficial when the drag is removed, such as in a race.


So any drag would be harmfull? Surely a jammer and/or bag suit wouldn't effect it would it?

knelson
March 18th, 2004, 11:47 AM
Originally posted by Tarzan


So any drag would be harmfull? Surely a jammer and/or bag suit wouldn't effect it would it?

Hard to say, but why risk it? Think about taking it to the extreme and wearing trunks in the pool. It seems to me your legs are going to sink due to the increased drag, so you're going to compensate by changing your body position. Now when you race you're used to that modified body position and use that even though it isn't really required since you no longer have the added drag.

Tarzan
March 18th, 2004, 12:03 PM
thanks for your input guys. Any further information would be appreciated but I think I've developed my opinion :)

eliana2003
March 18th, 2004, 12:49 PM
Uh-uh... sounds a bit creepy to me... How does he manage to get them to wear girls' suits, anyway?

:eek:

Some drag may be beneficial- but this sounds somewhat inappropriate...

Good luckwith it!

tjburk
March 18th, 2004, 01:02 PM
Nelson, do you coach? If so, go do some research on things that are being used these days to ENHANCE training! No injury involved!!! If you don't coach, SHUT UP and talk about something you know! IMO

gull
March 18th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Many coaches use sprint assisted and sprint resisted training techniques. For resistance they use surgical tubing and a pulley with weights--Gary Hall Jr. trained with this under Mike Bottom. Maglischo (who is a coach) agrees with Nelson that wearing clothing (male, female or other) is of no benefit and may adversely affect your stroke (see Swimming Fastest).

tjburk
March 18th, 2004, 01:29 PM
Alright, let me clarify what I mean! To give a blanket stament that these things are only used by a damn fool is going way to far! When used in the right context, at the right time, they are very useful! Like, tennis shoes on the feet while you are pulling! A lot of people tend to kick even with a pull bouy, putting tennis shoes on or an inner tube around the ankles takes the feet out of the equation. T-Shirts can be used while doing relays for fun to mix things up. I should have said this in the beginning.

Conniekat8
March 18th, 2004, 02:23 PM
Originally posted by Tarzan
Well, to be totally honest, I agree with you. However I know of a swim team that wears girl suits when they practice. And since I am of the opinion there are pleanty of "guy drag suits" why would you need to wear girl suits? I also though wearing a girl suit would mess up your strokes since you have added pressure to your shoulders etc.

maybe they're hand-me-downs, stretched out swimsuits may be a cheap solution to adding drag.

I have about a dozen streatched out old suits that could be used for added drag and i can only use one at the time. If someone wanted the extras, I'd gladly give them away just before I toss them out.

Cheaper that getting a specialized drag bucket or a parachute.

Conniekat8
March 18th, 2004, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by knelson
I'd say the disadvantage of trying to add drag, regardless of how it's done, is that you will change your body position to try to minimize this drag. This body position change may NOT be beneficial when the drag is removed, such as in a race.
.

so, then you use the incerased drag sets sparingly, so the changed body position doesn't become secod nature, but you still have some increased resistance sets in your workout to challenge the muscles.

swimsum
March 18th, 2004, 03:21 PM
I hope they have the good sense to go for some molded cups size D or up!

knelson
March 18th, 2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by Conniekat8
.

so, then you use the incerased drag sets sparingly, so the changed body position doesn't become secod nature, but you still have some increased resistance sets in your workout to challenge the muscles.

My muscles get challenged enough on sets with "normal" amounts of drag!

tjburk: thanks for the clarification, but I still don't think these methods add anything, but I can see the appeal if it adds some variety to workouts. And, no, I don't coach, but that doesn't mean I don't know anything about coaching.

One thing that just struck me as funny: why do people think it's so strange for a man to wear a woman's suit anyway? Heck, that's pretty much like men's suits looked like back in the day. Think about the picture of JFK when he swam for Harvard! Now if you could get your hands on some of those suits--that would give you some extra drag! You would also be required to swim without goggles :)

aquageek
March 18th, 2004, 04:16 PM
Originally posted by knelson

One thing that just struck me as funny: why do people think it's so strange for a man to wear a woman's suit anyway?

I suggest you wear a woman's suit to your next practice and gauge reaction. Heck, wear a woman's thong suit and really push the envelope.

I'll tell you why people think it's so strange for a man to wear a woman's suit - BECAUSE IT IS STRANGE. I'm not sure why that needs any type of explanation.

mattson
March 18th, 2004, 04:20 PM
Sad to say, we actually used this in high school. The team would shave and taper for sectionals. The state qualifier was the week after. To try to reduce the "shaved" feeling during the week of training, we would wear old t-shirts, pantyhose, women's suits, whatever.

I don't know how much it increased drag (or reduced our lifespans, those suits are very constricting down below ;) ), but it definitely made you forget about the feel of the water (from being shaved). And it digs into neck/shoulder muscles.

Conniekat8
March 18th, 2004, 04:28 PM
Ugh, yea, I hate the strap over the shoulder muscles. that can hurt, and restrict motion.
That's one of the reason I like my fastskin suit, it frees up my shoulder range of motion, and picnches my waist if I don't streamline well. Good reminder to rotate properly and not weave.

kaelonj
March 18th, 2004, 04:50 PM
Some double standards here (not that I am saying I advocate wearing a womens suit for added drag, unless one is female) - Isn't a Kilt a plaid skirt (not to offend any of Scottish descent), look at the competition body suits - not much design difference from the male to female suits (yea some but very similiar) yet it's okay to wear these. I had a female swimmer and she was interested in getting a pair of the mens swim leggings and combine it with the top of her 2 piece swim suit.
We too use to wear the pantyhose because district/league meets were only a week or two from the Regional /state meets (if you were lucky you could get a pair of running tights instead of the panty hose with the feet cut out).
I agree that there are plenty of ways to introduce drag to create an extra load on the swimming muscles, without scaring someones psyche for the rest of their lives (like the mesh shorts with the pockets that captured water to increase drag). Wasn't there a discussion that mentioned the decline in swimming because todays youth didn't want to wear the competition brief. If we are thinking about public opinion/perception then how do you explain wrestling (paraphrased from Breakfast Club) 2 guys dressed in tights rolling around on the ground grabbing each other hmmmmmmmm.
All I can sat to each their own.

Tom Ellison
March 18th, 2004, 04:50 PM
Wow, this is the 1st Post I am NOT going to comment on....
Way to out there for me....but intersting....gosh, can we swim our Levis???? Or, bring the horse to practice?
Is not, is to, is not is to, not, to

sparx35
March 18th, 2004, 05:09 PM
??this womens suit that we're supposed to,as men,swim in....
wouldn't happen to have a women in it would it,this could get tricky!!!

knelson
March 18th, 2004, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by aquageek
I suggest you wear a woman's suit to your next practice and gauge reaction.

Point taken. I think I'll pass on this experiment!

Mark in MD
March 18th, 2004, 06:29 PM
Tom, does this mean that you might try this out as your personal experiment and let us know the results? Just curious here. :D :p

Conniekat8
March 18th, 2004, 06:40 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Wow, this is the 1st Post I am NOT going to comment on....
Way to out there for me....but intersting....gosh, can we swim our Levis???? Or, bring the horse to practice?
Is not, is to, is not is to, not, to

I've been tossed in the pool before in my wranglers and with my cowgirl boots on. Wasn't a competition pool though ;)

Then again, riding a horse in Levis instead of Wranglers might raise an eyebrow or two. Those double seams on the inside of the pant leg can cause an awful lot of chafing. Any self respecting cowboy knows that! ;)

Shaky
March 18th, 2004, 10:11 PM
Everybody's worried about how it would look, but I'm thinking more about how it would fit and feel. I mean, I've looked at certain parts of these suits while they were being worn by the ladies (all us guys have), and there doesn't appear to be enough material there to adequately cover everything without a little more compression than is desirable. Face it, those things aren't meant to fit us (or at least most of us), and the spillover or torsion that would result would be worse than the fear that someone would think we're gay or something because we're wearing girls' clothing.

I never could understand guys who wear womens' underwear for this same reason. Hey, silky stuff is great, but it just ain't properly tailored for the extra baggage. How can that be a turn on?

Tom Ellison
March 19th, 2004, 02:44 PM
ALWAYS wore Levis....always will....loyal I guess....
Besides....any tough guy does not worry about a stupid little seam...rufff....errrr...rufff....

jdut
March 19th, 2004, 03:34 PM
Has anyone noticed that a) women have to swim with those straps digging into their shoulders all the time b) high school swimmers seem to go for weirder-is-better approach to practice attire and c)nobody seems scarred for life? I think as an adult we cannot guess the workings of the teenage boy's mind (nor would we want to) and what works to motivate a h.s. team perhaps would not be effective for masters - for the boys team I coach, using trunks, tights, etc is part of the "getting psyched for states" process. We (coaches and any other adult that might encounter them in late February) know they look strange (they also have bizarre hairstyles by that part of the season, but it's all part of it) but they feel like it helps them swim faster. And they DO swim FASTER - who is to say that the mental part of taper is not as important as the physical?

Conniekat8
March 19th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
ALWAYS wore Levis....always will....loyal I guess....
Besides....any tough guy does not worry about a stupid little seam...rufff....errrr...rufff....


*giggle*
You're too funny :)

breastroker
March 19th, 2004, 08:34 PM
You guys crack me up:p

To try to reduce the "shaved" feeling during the week of training, we would wear old t-shirts, pantyhose, women's suits, whatever
As a coach this would be the last thing I would ever recommend!Swimmers always have a hard time adjusting to swimming fast during taper. A High school senior might have tapered perhaps half a dozen times, a college senior perhaps two dozen times. Your mind and body need to be in sync with the taper and be able to take advantage of the extra speed, esp. off the start and turns. Missed turns is the most common bad effect of taper. A swimmer cannot afford a bad race, a missed turn when college scholarships are involved.

I believe that swimmers who taper often and race often (Amanda Beard) in World Cup have huge advantages in being able to control the mind and body to pull out a great swim despite problems diring the race.

I feel breaststrokers are the most disadvantaged during taper because there is not a readily available device such as Zoomers that can simulate race pace speed. Of course I have an article on taper for breaststrokers at http://www.breaststroke.info/taper.htm

Also any of you coach young boys? They HATE regular boys suits, so I had my boys get the jammers, they like the less revealing suit MUCH better. They would have all quit the team if they had to wear womens clothes!!! Same goes for high school boys.

breastroker
March 19th, 2004, 08:48 PM
ALWAYS wore Levis....always will....loyal I guess....
Besides....any tough guy does not worry about a stupid little seam...rufff....errrr...rufff....

Connie, you need to meet real men, not hollywood cowboys:D

Tom has these inseam burns from the Levis, when he swims they make him faster, less water resistance due to reduction in form drag over wave drag:rolleyes:

lapswimmr
March 19th, 2004, 09:15 PM
I have never seen a man wearing a womens swim suit in the pool. But I have seen a few men wearing swim caps with the chin strap. I remember one fellow who had long black hair . I think he was from India. He had a white strap speedo cap on and it was on backwards the strap was real high up toward the ears almost as a result. . We swimmers smiled and had a bit of a laugh to ourselves..but not because the cap had a strap but it was backwards and really looked goofy! Poor fellow he did not know how the cap was supposed to go on. A cap is a bit different then a swim suit though..lots of guy things have chin straps like fighter helmets football helmets, dive gear..all mucho macho. Now a flower cap would be sissy and get lots of laughs! All in all I guess it would be kind of strange to use womens suits for drag as they have cups. I pity the coach who tells his male swimmers to do this!

cinc3100
March 19th, 2004, 09:26 PM
Anyways, being a history nut. I remember particularly french men in the 18th century. They wore very flowing shirts and pants and wigs and wore a lot of jewerly and perfume. Granted, few of them were dresses. I do remember swimming on a team with Brazilian olympian Romulo Artress(sorry for the missspelling. He wore a woman's bathing suit and joke about the area where the breasts are at. He had a sense of humor.

SWinkleblech
March 19th, 2004, 09:49 PM
I have a couple of questions here

1. I use a old worn suit through out the season as a drag suit for practice. It sounds like some of you are saying that I shouldn't be using a drag suit. Should I or shouldn't I be using a drag suit? Also how often so you use a drag suit for practice?

2. I have an idea as to what it means to taper off but how should you go about doing this? Our league championships is coming up in about two weeks. I usually don't workout as much after championships and throughout the summer. Also if you use a drag suit do you use it when tapering?

breastroker
March 19th, 2004, 10:20 PM
SWinkleblech,
Taper is all about swimming fast, so why would you use a drag suit then? Taper is for feeling good, finding your stroke and overcoming muscles worn out over thousands of laps, finally feeling good. I like to schedule a swim meet the week after the big meet, just to see if the taper period was correct. You never can tell when you are going to rip that one great swim.

I remember coming back after a world championship. I am not a good freestyler, but I did a 56 for 100 free from a pushoff the wall.
Talk about missing the taper, I felt so good the week after.:D One of my friends did a 52 push, he also missed his taper. Connie knows him, great butterflier.

SWinkleblech
March 19th, 2004, 10:45 PM
Over Christmas break I wasn't able to swim for two weeks and had to go into a swim meet the first week of Janurary. In three out of four events I swam my fastest, since I've been in masters. Someone told me I must taper off well. I don't call taking two weeks off before a meet tapering off.

I'm a long distance swimmer. When you mean swim fast do you mean do fast sprints or trying swimming my distance as fast as I can?:confused: :confused:

Blue Horn
March 20th, 2004, 12:31 AM
I really could have done without the thought of hairy guys hanging out of girls suits. Seriously, where would you put your goods? Just the thought is painful. No pain no gain, huh? :D

Hook'em
Blue