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michaelmoore
April 1st, 2004, 11:32 AM
I have been so busy with the XI FINA Masters World Championships, I have not been able to report some of the other things that I learned at the FINA Bureau meeting in Dubai last month.

One of the great things about going to the meetings is the ability to develop personal relationships with the members of the Bureau. On Saturday afternoon, the Bureau meetings were finished. I was walking through the lobby of the beautiful Fairmont Dubai, at one table was Cornel Marculescu, FINA Executive Director, Bill Matson and Dale Neuburger, our FINA rep.

I got called over to them and we talked about the championships to be held at Stanford. After a couple of glasses of wine, somehow the conversation got on the topic of evening out the competition. I told them that when I was in high school in San Francisco, they had a system of exponents for teams and a person could have no more than x amount of points (points were given for age, height and weight). This way you could have a basketball team of people of about like physical ability playing the game.

Bill Matson said that FINA Masters Committee was looking at differenciating the records. The FINA Bureau wants to be more inclusive and the ability to have more records. When you have different types of records more people can go after them.- it will create more excitement and maybe more people will want to swim Masters As FINA is divided into different geographical segments North America, South American, Europe, Asia and Pacific the FINA Masters Committee will be recommending that the records be kept for those areas. (I thought I heard that this was being proposed by the French who wanted there swimmers to be able to get international recognition – there best women Masters swimmers are in the same age group as Laura Val).

Dale said that the US is been opposed to this and that he and June Krauser have been working to keep it in committee, but it looks like he does not have the votes to keep it there. The US thinks that there should be only one set of records and in the current format.

He also said that there is going to be “super category” of Masters records. Masters Masters (age 40-59) and Senior Masters (60+). Cornel said that Walt Reid, who keeps track of all the International Masters Records, while initially opposed to the idea, has developed the software to handle all the new data that will be coming in.

Dale said FINA Masters will be recommending that the Federations have new categories for swimmers who were not age group swimmers (he thought this was marketing than from the competition committee). I laughed and said yea – right – the next thing you would do is to keep records on the BMI (Body Mass Index Scale). Cornel said that was considerd but they would like to see some other changes made first.

Bill said that all that is left to do is that it has to pass the FINA Masters Committee. They will be meeting in Riccione, Italy just before the X FINA Masters World Championships. (Dale thinks that the French and Europeans have the votes to get it through). After it passes there, it will go the the FINA Congress (In past years, it met at the same time as the Olympics, but starting with this Congress, it will meet at the World Championships).

Anyway, that is what I learned at Dubai. And thought you might like to know.

michael

Tom Ellison
April 1st, 2004, 11:47 AM
Sincerely I say this Michael....and this is not directed toward you or our FINA reps...
FINA needs to get a life....

old dog
April 1st, 2004, 11:52 AM
Make sure they create a "late bloomer catagory", too
;)

Karen Duggan
April 1st, 2004, 11:53 AM
Yes, yes, yes... think of all of the categories!

Rich, poor, tall, short, gay, straight, fat, thin, obnoxious, nice, stupid, smart, high VO2 Max, no VO2 Max... this would be right up our Romanian friend's alley.

This reminds me of the No Child Left Behind federal legislation. Yes, it's a happy, warm, fuzzy idea, but it's not the real world.

Come on. (whiny sounding)

Hugh
April 1st, 2004, 12:04 PM
Michael,
Do you have more information regarding the BMI records? Would these records be kept for different Index ranges or would a handicap system be used? Would it pay off for someone to gain weight if they could keep their times relatively constant?

aquageek
April 1st, 2004, 12:07 PM
A couple of points:

1. This is exactly what Ion has wanted. Now he can compete on his own merits in his own category.

2. More seriously - this is absolutely silly. Again, in the interest of making everyone feel special, we are watering things down. There are a lot of other ways to get folks swimming than by making the rules and awards easier to achieve.

Karen Duggan
April 1st, 2004, 12:09 PM
Well said Aquageek :)

swimr4life
April 1st, 2004, 12:18 PM
YOU'VE GOT TO BE KIDDING!!! I'm with Aquageek, this is encouraging mediocrity. Why take away from those individuals who have WORKED VERY HARD to break the records. It is not like you automatically become a fast swimmer just because you started at a young age. These swimmers have worked VERY hard for MANY years to become the swimmers they are today. If we start keeping all these different categories of records, they will not be viewed as the great accomplishment that they are now! Its called competition for a reason. If you can't handle not holding a record or always winning something, you are swimming for all the wrong reasons. I'm sorry if I have offended anyone...that is not my intention at all. I feel strongly that I'm pointing out the obvious! FINA must have WAY too much time on their hands if they are truly considering this!

ARE YOU PULLING OUR LEG?;)

effi
April 1st, 2004, 12:28 PM
Don't forget to mention those of us who are the "shorest swiimers out there" to quote Cynthia. We take more arm strokes per length need to be considered in a special category.

Tom Ellison
April 1st, 2004, 12:31 PM
A few short years ago I posted my thoughts on FINA and I got filleted! After reading your post Michael, I still stand by my impressions of FINA…if they really are advocating these categories, they really do need to get a serious life….

aquageek
April 1st, 2004, 12:34 PM
I'm starting to think we are being duped, Dubai style.

Tom Ellison
April 1st, 2004, 12:38 PM
It is April Fools you know....and if we are having our chains yanked....I have a serious hook in my mouth...

swimr4life
April 1st, 2004, 12:40 PM
Some other categories for fun:

Women who have had 1 child
Women who have had 2 children
Women who have had 3 children, etc.....
Part-time workers
Full time workers
Stay at home moms
Stay at home dads
Smokers
Non-smokers
Drinkers
Non-drinkers
Overweight swimmers
Ideal weight swimmers
Underweight swimmers
Swimmers over 5'5"
Swimmers under 5'5"
The possibilities are endless. We could fix it to where every swimmer could create their own category so they too could hold a record!

I'm being serious! Don't fix it if it is not broke. The records are fine the way they are kept now!

swimr4life
April 1st, 2004, 12:42 PM
WOW! Tom, if you are right, I took it hook line and sinker too!:rolleyes: Michael, if you are pulling an April Fools joke on us....GOOD ONE! :p

michaelmoore
April 1st, 2004, 12:42 PM
re BMI

They were rather unclear how to handle the BMI index, whether to make it its own separate category or to give it a handicap. It was a long day and the effects of jet lag and the wine. And I thought it was a dumb idea.

But what the heck maybe we should look at how Bill Volkening swims with two different body types. Same stroke, different body. We could extrapolate some something from his times.



michael

Tom Ellison
April 1st, 2004, 01:06 PM
Well Gosh, maybe the FINA International Top Ten Time I swam in 2000 at age 50 (19:44.08) in the 50-54 age group, 1500 SCM Free (9th place) should get updated to maybe first or second place due to the fact that I have swam as a Masters Swimmer all there years with an artificial right hip and hepatitis C, from the 40 pints of blood it took to save my life in 1977...after being crushed under a 28 ton dump truck.
Hey, great new age/swimming group...Swimmers who have been crushed under 28 ton dump trucks...
Michel, I AM NOT directing this toward you, or USMS’s hard working reps to FINA....I am simply pointing out how completely absurd this is...and I mean obsurd!

Phil Arcuni
April 1st, 2004, 01:53 PM
Michael - I heard that they were talking about adding some more accessible events. These included, of course, 25 meters, but also kick events, side stroke, and old-timers events (these include old style rules such as the requirement of a hand touch on all free style turns.)

At the other extreme, the Australian lobby is trying to add 1500 meter back and breast, and a representative of Rinconada is trying to add 1500 m fly.

Swimmer Bill
April 1st, 2004, 02:53 PM
I hope they do a grandfather clause on the BMI. It has been less than two years since I got down to this weight!

Karen Duggan
April 1st, 2004, 03:00 PM
Don't worry everyone. I've got this one under control. Tomorrow is the Pacific Masters Championships in Santa Cruz... Michael will be officiating. I'll be there too (swimming, well, attempting it!). I'll fix his little red wagon!

Any special messages or ideas you'd like me to convey in person?
To quote Val Kilmer in "Tombstone",
"I'm your Huckleberry" (I'm here for ya);)

SWinkleblech
April 1st, 2004, 03:02 PM
Originally posted by swimr4life
Some other categories for fun:

Women who have had 1 child
Women who have had 2 children
Women who have had 3 children, etc.....
Part-time workers
Full time workers
Stay at home moms
Stay at home dads
Smokers
Non-smokers
Drinkers
Non-drinkers
Overweight swimmers
Ideal weight swimmers
Underweight swimmers
Swimmers over 5'5"
Swimmers under 5'5"
The possibilities are endless. We could fix it to where every swimmer could create their own category so they too could hold a record!

I'm being serious! Don't fix it if it is not broke. The records are fine the way they are kept now!

I wonder how many swimmers would be in my category, the overweight, under 5'5, non-smoking, full time worker with two children category.

Why do I get the feeling that this is one big April Fools Joke. Just like the snow I saw outside my classroom window today.

tjburk
April 1st, 2004, 03:37 PM
Hopefully this is all a JOKE! If not, we are falling right into the "Let's make everyone feel good" so they can go out in the real world and get crushed, and have a reason to become the next Ted Bundy and blame it all on someone else!

:confused:

Rob Copeland
April 1st, 2004, 03:40 PM
Sounds like FINA took a cue from Armour hotdogs
Records, Masters, Records. What kinds of kids get Masters Records? Fat kids, skinny kids, kids who climb on rocks, tough kids, sissy kids, even kids with chicken pox get Records, Masters, Records, the records kids get in spite (of ability).

Or maybe, we could go with one-year age groups for records.

gull
April 1st, 2004, 05:25 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Hey, great new age/swimming group...Swimmers who have been crushed under 28 ton dump trucks...

It would seem to me that for an early bloomer, being crushed by a 28 ton dump truck would "level the playing field," in a manner of speaking, when competing against a late bloomer. It certainly can't help your VO2max, but then again, I'm no doctor. . .uh, actually I am.

Impressive 1500, Tom.

Hugh
April 1st, 2004, 06:37 PM
It seems to me that we could reduce the number of records instead of increase them. We could establish factors for age, weight, height, years of training, gender, and health. Everyone would then get a new calculated Cumulative Factor, or CF every year at registration. They would then multiply their times by the CF. For instance a 70 year old woman, 5 foot tall, 140 pounds, who has been training for 3 years, but had colon cancer 3 years ago, might get an index of 0.55. If the woman does a 40 second 50 free, that equates to a 22.0. A 25 year old man, 6 foot tall, 200 pounds, who has been training for 10 years, and is in excellent health, might get an index of 1.0. He would have to swim under 22.0 to beat the 70 year old woman. Using CFs, we could eliminate records for gender and age groups.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 02:31 AM
I help poor USMS souls one more time.

1.) Michael Moore and Hugh Moore played a prank like this last April 1st. too.

2.) Regarding the need for special categories in USMS races, I think that over three years in this forum I spelled my position repeatedly for whoever was decent enough to learn it;
last time I spelled it in the thread 'The Fastest Age', a few days ago;
my position is not to create special categories outside timed events, but to value research and awareness of challenges that people undertake;
challenges like this:

Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Well Gosh, maybe the FINA International Top Ten Time I swam in 2000 at age 50 (19:44.08) in the 50-54 age group, 1500 SCM Free (9th place) should get updated to maybe first or second place due to the fact that I have swam as a Masters Swimmer all there years with an artificial right hip and hepatitis C, from the 40 pints of blood it took to save my life in 1977...after being crushed under a 28 ton dump truck.
Hey, great new age/swimming group...Swimmers who have been crushed under 28 ton dump trucks...
...

or like mine -a late bloomer who steps up in USMS to training and racing the less than 3% of USMS who go to Nationals and who rely in most cases on a pre USMS background for swimming competitively-, or like effi's who posted here -in derision but I take it seriously- that short people need more strokes per length so they battle this challenge, or like Shannan's who envisioned sarcastically many categories of competitors -to which I say that it should be awareness of these challenges instead of envisioning new categories in a sarcastic way-.

What do you prefer from 'The World's Foremost Authority on Adult Swimming' and from this forum?

A.) Obscurantism, with fluffy articles -confusing yards and meters in their incompetence- that reward lazies who rely on a pre USMS background in order to meet the easier standards and stereotypes of the USMS;

or

B.) Enlightenment in research and awareness about challenges?

I prefer B.).

I am not the typical USMS member.

B.) is better understood in Senior U.S. Swimming (as in swimmers over 18 who meet cuts) than it is in USMS.

I would compete in the atmoshere of the Senior Swimming if I were fast enough to fit in there.

Compare the Swim magazine with the Swimnews magazine from Canada.

Tom's and the above challenges fell under obscurantism in USMS.

Someone's (from New Jersey, U.S.) challenge didn't fall under obscurantism in U.S. Swimming.

A few years ago he made the world's top rankings in the 100 meters free, with a 50 seconds performance.

And one lung.

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 05:51 AM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

I would compete in the atmoshere of the Senior Swimming if I were fast enough to fit in there.



But, you aren't.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 06:43 AM
_______________________________________________

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ion Beza

Tom's and the above challenges fell under obscurantism in USMS.

_______________________________________________

Gosh, I think I have just been insulted...but...I am not sure or clear on the why...or reason behind this insult. Ion, please explain your point.
Kindest regards,
Tom

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 08:12 AM
Y'all are in luck. I rooted around this morning and unearthed my Eastern European Mad Communist to English dictionary. It's relatively small as it was written by someone with poor unqualficiations. However, obscurantism was an entry and has three known definitions, as follows:

1. obscurantism - A condition, or state of being, where one fabricates medical and developmental issues to explain substandard athletic performance. Most notably characterized by a lack of facts, lashing out a peope of different age/sex groups and ability to change stories on a dime when confronted with facts. A lesser known fact is that obscuratants may have bad hair due to improper use of V02Max shampoo.

2. obscurantism - lack of proper technique, most notably characterized by flop dives and double bilateral breathing.

3. obscurantism - synonymous with Ionish, a childlike desire to be accepted.

The antonyms of obscurantism are:

1. realism

2. Tom Ellisonism - noble condition where one relies on hard work, technique and does not make excuses.

If anyone requires my dictionary for further research, please let me know.

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 08:38 AM
Oh, here we go again!!!! This should be good!!! Now just sit back, relax and enjoy the show!!!!:D Ion, a shot was fired back over your bow, whacha gonna do bout it?;)

SWinkleblech
April 2nd, 2004, 08:40 AM
Originally posted by Ion Beza
my position is not to create special categories outside timed events, but to value research and awareness of challenges that people undertake;
challenges like this:


What good is any of this if you don't do something with it. Such as create more categories.

SWinkleblech
April 2nd, 2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by Ion Beza
or like Shannan's who envisioned sarcastically many categories of competitors -to which I say that it should be awareness of these challenges instead of envisioning new categories in a sarcastic way-.


If you don't like my sarcasim to bad. This deserves sarcasim. We all have are own challenges. The difference is do we use those challenges as an excuse for what we can't accomplish or do we try our very best to overcome those challenges?

I have many challenges in my life that causes me to be slow. You don't hear me whining about how they keep me from being faster then others. I hope that someday I can overcome them and soon be a better swimmer. And If I am not faster then the person in the next lane, oh well. I'm here to enjoy swimming not make excuses.

Msparks378
April 2nd, 2004, 08:55 AM
Ion - This thread wasn't about you. Every time you post, and on every subject, you somehow mange to twist the thread into an argument about your situation, abilities and opinions.

Everyone was just having some fun. I think that 99% of all USMS members would list FUN as a reason for swimming and membership.

Relax, enjoy the swimming, test your skills and have fun.

Michael

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 09:16 AM
Michael Sparks:

What are you talking about? Every thread is somehow about Ion or eventually gets to that anyway.

I cruised over to usswim.org yesterday to check out their forums. Beza was active over there but I guess he got bored talking about teen idols and favorite color Speedos and came back to torture us with his never endin nonsense.

He doesn't usually come back to this forum until noon ET. That's when get he gets off the bagel line at Intel and comes home from the third shift.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 09:22 AM
Ion:

I looked this word up;

ob•scur•ant•ism
n.
1. The principles or practice of obscurants.
2. A policy of withholding information from the public.
3.
a. A style in art and literature characterized by deliberate vagueness or obliqueness.
b. An example or instance of this style.

ob•scur ant•ist n.


obscurantism
\Ob*scur"ant*ism\, n. The system or the principles of the obscurants. --C. Kingsley.
Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc.

obscurantism
n 1: a policy of opposition to enlightenment or the spread of knowledge 2: a deliberate act intended to make something obscure.
Source: WordNet ® 1.6, © 1997 Princeton University

I was awakened this fine morning at 4 am here in beautiful Cody, WY by snow blowing in my window. I left the window open last night before going to bed, for it was a beautiful warm day yesterday and I figured a good nights sleep would be best served with fresh air. After cleaning the snow off my window sill and a few flakes off my bed, which sits right next to the window, I got up, made a cup of coffee and pulled up the late night USMS posts.

As I read the late night posts I found myself starting my day in a bad mood, filled with anger, hostility, indignation and pain. I read Ion’s post many times and figured the most appropriate response would be to ask for a clarification to his post. I then looked up the word obscurantism on the internet dictionary. I posted that meaning above.

PLEASE read my thoughts as they are intended. That is, to enlighten Ion to his incessant attacks, belligerent manner and inaccurate posts. My understanding of Ion’s post is that I have been lumped into this USMS secret conspiracy that fosters deceit, misrepresentation and a policy of opposition to enlightenment or the spread of knowledge.

For the record….and I warn the USMS forum readers that the following information is graphic in nature and possibly disturbing:

• On 28 November 1977 while working on a paving crew right out of college, I was backed over by the rear right four tires of a dump truck carrying asphalt. The dump truck had a scale ticket that listed its weight at 27.7 tons. It had no back up bells and was not supposed to be backing up in the area it was….and I got squashed in the street.
• I spent the next five to six straight months in the hospital.
• During the first three days after being squashed I underwent five serious life or death operation to repair the damage caused by being squashed.
• Those operations included reconstruction of my intestines to place a colostomy in my stomach.
• Temporary rebuild my blown out rectum where my intestines were squashed through.
• Temporary rebuild of my right hip which was crushed out of my body.
• Massive blood transfusions to replace a massive loss of blood loss caused by evisceration. I took over forty pints of blood during the first three days.
• My pelvis was CRUSHED, my right hip was CRUSHED, my sacrum was CRUSHED and the entire right side of my buttocks was SQUASHED of in my Levis. When they removed (cut off) my Levis they literally picked up my right buttocks and tossed it in a pan next to the operating table. As a point of reference, I was conscious and watched this happen.
• To date, I have undergone twenty one operations, suffered from Hepatitis C contracted from the massive blood transfusions, two total right hip replacements and three rectum reconstructive surgeries to repair a blow out rectum (which leads to the removal of my colostomy which I had for two years after the accident).
• Thirteen or fourteen years ago while living in Greensboro, NC I started back swimming with some very, very unique and inspiring people.
• One year later I moved to Texas and continued swimming with a great group of USMS.
• NOT ONE TIME over the past thirteen or fourteen years that I have competed in Masters Swimming have I ever asked for special consideration, expected special consideration or wanted special consideration.
• I have competed in four USMS Nationals and I have worked very, very hard to swim seven Top Ten USMS times and one FINA International Top Ten Time.
• I won the Alcatraz Sharkfest Swim in 1997 in the (10 year age groups then) 40-49 year old Non-Wet Suit div.
• I placed second on the Golden Gate Bridge Swim the following day.
• In 1998 I again swam both San Francisco Bay events as the proud father of an outstanding 12 year old son who became the youngest person in the world to race across the Golden Gate Bridge, which he won in the 10-19 year old age group, Non-Wet Suit division. Then the following we raced the Alcatraz Sharkfest together.

At first glance after reading your post ION, where you refer to me as a member of USMS obscurantism, I became angry. After a few cups off coffee and a few hours to think about your post, I am going to set you straight once and for all. My record of USMS speaks for itself. My record of hard work is well known by all who swam with me. My record of attempting to help and guide new USMS is well known. My record of never ever loafing in workout is well known, my record of leaving every single ounce of strength in the pool after a mile swim is also well known. Every single mile I ever competed in was swum right up on the very edge of human conditioning.

Your reference to me by lumping me into this nonsense regarding obscurantism is a perfect example of your indifference to the truth and your inability to see dedication, hard work and grit…as opposed to making excuses why your times are not comparative with the MEN in your own age group. Please, think about what and who you write about.

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 09:33 AM
Wow! Sums it up in one word! Guess I know where your good nature comes from! One Day At A Time!!! Live each day Like it is your last! Cause it very well could be!

Hat's off to you Tom!

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 09:34 AM
Down here in the Bible Belt, there is only one word Tom's outstanding post:

AMEN

dorothyrd
April 2nd, 2004, 09:36 AM
Tom, I did not know your story and I just have to say WOW.

This is why I like Masters. There are so many people who inspire.

As for Ion, ignore him. He only posts to inflame. I have never seen a post where he does not try to stir up controversary. Some people just thrive on that.

As for me and many others, I sure had a laugh over this thread and the other VO2 shampoo thread. I thrive on humor, keep it up and I will be honored to see you swim at Nationals!

SWinkleblech
April 2nd, 2004, 09:47 AM
Tom I have a lot of respect for you. I think we all need to follow your example. It is amazing that you keep such good humor about life. Sometimes it is so easy to feel sorry for ourselves instead of rising to the occasion and showing what we as humans are really able to do. We need more people like you in this world. Your an insperation!!!!!;)

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 09:47 AM
Thank you Dorthy and others for the kind words...
I will not be at Nationals this year..I am working through some tough times in my life....and with a bit of luck and God's blessings....I will be there next year....I look so forward to meeting you all....and my bent, demented sense of humor is still stead fast in some very tough times....Heck, if I can't laugh at myself, then who can I laugh at...?

You should laugh at yourself dummy because your such a dork....hush up...I am writing this...No, really your such a dork...you should laugh at yourself...I said hush up, or I am going to turn you off....can not, can to, not, to
Kindest regards,
Tom

swimr4life
April 2nd, 2004, 09:50 AM
Tom, you are truly an inspiration to us all. PLEASE DO NOT LET THE RIDICULOUS OPINION OF ONE OBNOXIOUS INDIVIDUAL KEEP YOU FROM US!

It takes a lot to make me angry....but I've had enough!
ION, crawl back into the hole you came from. I was really enjoying this forum,as were many others, until you came back. How DARE you insult Tom. He has never been cruel to you. He is one of the only posters on this forum that stands up for you. He is a kind, generous soul. Look what all his life has handed him. Is he bitter? NO Is he cruel to others because he has had his tough times? NO Is he making the best of his life without feeling sorry for himself? YES! Is he encouraging others and promoting Masters Swimming to everyone possible? YES! Does he have a POSITIVE ATTITUDE? YES!

Why do you enjoy coming and stirring up controversy and anger. Hurting others while trying to make some obscure, ridiculous point that no one cares about. You are entitled to your opinions but not to be hateful, hurtful and just plain MEAN!

I can already predict how you will respond to this. You will tell me to use my ignore button. You'll look up some obscure quote to prove some random point contrary to something I just said. You'll cut down USMS or my beloved country...or the south. I'm very tired of you RUINING this forum. If you can't contribute to the forum in a positive way, why do you participate. Do you enjoy hurting people? You are a MEAN,MEAN MAN!

My advice to everyone. Don't waste your time trying to change Ion. HE WON'T CHANGE!

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 09:59 AM
Now that the reults are in......It has been pointed out to me by my alter ego Spaceman Spiff that Ion would not even be able to carry Tom's bags to the pool!:D

DocWhoRocks
April 2nd, 2004, 10:16 AM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
I was awakened this fine morning at 4 am here in beautiful Cody, WY by snow blowing in my

[off topic]
You haven't lived in WY long have ya? Not wise to leave your windows open at night until about the last 2 weeks in July-1st week in Aug. Unless of course you like your bedroom at 40º ;)
[/off topic]

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 10:39 AM
I am a new guy to WY...but lived in Colo many years in the high mtns.....and since the heat is free in my apt...I love fresh air....
But, your right Doc.....the seasons are...winter, Aug. and winter here in WY...

Bert Bergen
April 2nd, 2004, 10:49 AM
Ion, YOU HAVEN'T "OVERCOME" ANYTHING to earn special recognition or support in swimming, no matter how much you demand it. Look at Tom's post; look at the Americans suffering every day in Iraq; how about the homeless, the poor, the family friend of ours suffering from terminal cancer in a hospital in Atlanta-he's not yet three years old. No one cares for your condescension or your self-important blather. Please, if you want to talk about challenges, stick to what you overcame to simply get here. Otherwise, leave us alone.

mattson
April 2nd, 2004, 10:54 AM
To further the distinction between Tom and that other guy...

A while ago, I had started a thread to celebrate Tom's... um... unique sense of humor. :D He wrote back, saying he appreciated it, but wanted to keep a low profile.

I don't know Tom, beyond that sense of humor that I've noticed in these posts. That e-mail was the first time that I had heard of Tom's condition. (I remember previous posts about a nagging hip, but I did not realize the severity.) When I read that, I was thinking, this is the sort of story that needs to be told, overcoming real obstacles. But in his humility, Tom only wanted to go back to swimming hard, and competing with others on equal footing. We all have excuses about why we don't swim faster, but Tom, bless his soul, concentrates on what he can do, instead of what he can't.

gull
April 2nd, 2004, 10:55 AM
Ion, what's so great about Tom is not simply what he had to overcome but what he achieved in the end. My son understands this--born with CP he still plays basketball with the local YMCA league and has a great (one handed) outside shot. He doesn't want recognition for participating with a disability, he wants to have a big game and score a lot of baskets. And the other kids play him straight up, as they should (he wouldn't have it any other way).

Confront your adversity, overcome it, and achieve (NQT's, Top 10 times, whatever). Then you'll get your recognition. That's how things work.

And stop disrespecting the efforts of others.

Scansy
April 2nd, 2004, 11:02 AM
Originally posted by aquageek
...
I cruised over to usswim.org yesterday to check out their forums. Beza was active over there but I guess he got bored talking about teen idols and favorite color Speedos and came back to torture us with his never endin nonsense.
...


I agree with one thing, the usswim forums do seem to be filled with a lot of pre-teen and teen chatter. I for one feel much more comfortable here.

Scansy
April 2nd, 2004, 11:14 AM
Incredible story Tom. Congratulations on being stong enough to overcome. Also, good luck with the difficulties you are experiencing now.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
_______________________________________________

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ion Beza

Tom's and the above challenges fell under obscurantism in USMS.

_______________________________________________

Gosh, I think I have just been insulted...but...I am not sure or clear on the why...or reason behind this insult. Ion, please explain your point.
Kindest regards,
Tom
You hadn't been insulted by me.

You and who thinks otherwise re-read my post.

More slowly.

It says that you overcame a challenge that was not seen.

USMS has an obscurantist way that doesn't see challenges.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 12:32 PM
Thank you Paul, Gull, Mark, Bert, Tracy, Kim, Swimlebleach, Dorthy and ALL....as Mark pointed out...I am/was extremely reticent to bring attention to myself…I am just not comfortable doing that…especially with the things I am dealing with right now. After reading that post this morning, I felt it necessary to speak my peace with respect to the content. Heck, I have nothing against Ion. I have attempted to help him see the other side of the coin and give thought to his posts. Gosh, some of the posts I made in my attempts to help and guide him put me in harms way. Ion, in my humble opinion, is much the same as any of us. He loves his family, has pride and determination....but...often lacks the skills to be understood or to get his point made in a positive manner. Deep down, I honestly do not believe he has malice within him, and that is an important ingredient in what a person is about.

Know that I am not unique…or…for that matter much different then many, many fine Masters Swimmers I’ve met all over this great nation. Swimmers who exemplify greatness….guys like Bobby Patton who over came cancer to go on to swim many, many fine swims and set incredible records and is one of the nicest, most humble people I have ever met, people like the GREAT Graham Johnston who exudes such greatness just sitting with him and talking with him that it gives you goose bumps, people like the late Dorothy Donnelley who was one of the nicest, sweetest people I ever met, people like the late Gus Langer who took his time to talk to me in Fort Lauderdale when I introduced myself to him and gave him a word or two of praise for a life time of great swimming…and the fine, decent, caring people who stood by me when my life came crashing down around me 19 months ago in Fort Worth….people who I literally owe my life to…..I could go on and on…but suffice it to say….my experience with United States Masters swimmers is heart warming, inspirational and above all a blessing.
Thank you all for your kindness and support……
Tom

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 12:44 PM
Quote: By Ion:

"Tom's and the above challenges fell under obscurantism in USMS.

Someone's (from New Jersey, U.S.) challenge didn't fall under obscurantism in U.S. Swimming.

A few years ago he made the world's top rankings in the 100 meters free, with a 50 seconds performance.

And one lung."



You stated..."Tom's and the above challenges fell under obscurantism in USMS."

Then..you went on to say, " Someone's (from New Jersey, U.S.) challenge DIDN'T fall under obscurantism in U.S> Swimming."

The word DIDN'T is exclusionary in the sense that it removed my efforts and grammatically lumped me in with this obscurantism thought process.

I read what I read....and...it you did not mean what was written, then I humbly say I am sorry!

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 12:46 PM
Tom,

I re-iterate that you hadn't been insulted by me.

I do mean what I wrote.

I re-post the part in my post relevant to my appreciation for your challenge:

Originally posted by Ion Beza

...
my position is not to create special categories outside timed events, but to value research and awareness of challenges that people undertake;
challenges like this:
...
Tom's and the above challenges fell under obscurantism in USMS.
...

Re-read my post.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 12:49 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison

...
The word DIDN'T is exclusionary in the sense that it removed my efforts and grammatically lumped me in with this obscurantism thought process.
...

The way I constructed my statement is to say that USMS -not me- removed your efforts and grammatically lumped you "...in with this obscurantism process.".

How?

Simply by not reporting your efforts.

Elsewhere, U.S. Swimming did report someone's efforts.

Fritz
April 2nd, 2004, 12:59 PM
I think what Ion is trying to say is that your(Tom) particular life challenges are not given any attention by USMS. Not to speak for you but I imagine you would say that you don't want any attention although I think it certainly would make an inpirational story. I know I sat and read it and thought I'd be honored to workout with you sometime. You'd probably kick my ass. Come back to North Carolina. We've got a lane for you.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 01:00 PM
Ion, please take this with the kindness that is the foundation of what I am going to say here. USMS has NEVER lumped me in with your obscurantism thought process. In fact, they posted my USA Top Ten Times, my FINA International Top Ten Time and went so far as to recognize my efforts and successes by printing an article and picture of me in Swim Magazine back in 1997.

USMS has given me every possible opportunity to be whatever I can be. They have never hindered my efforts or goals and have always dealt with me in a positive forthright manner.

Lastly, perhaps your earlier post had a grammatical inaccuracy that I misunderstood. For that, I apologize.

Kindest regards,
Tom

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:07 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison

...
USMS has NEVER lumped me in with your obscurantism thought process. In fact, they posted my USA Top Ten Times, my FINA International Top Ten Time and went so far as to recognize my efforts and successes by printing an article and picture of me in Swim Magazine back in 1997.
...

I didn't know this.

I spoke too quickly here.

But the point that USMS doesn't emphasize it enough, stands.

Originally posted by Tom Ellison

...
Lastly, perhaps your earlier post had a grammatical inaccuracy that I misunderstood. For that, I apologize.

Kindest regards,
Tom
There is no grammatical inaccuracy in what I wrote.

I meant that your challenge wasn't reported in USMS ("...Tom and the above challenges fell under oscurantism in USMS...") and someone's challenge was reported in U.S. Swimming.

As of now, it turns out that your challenge was reported in USMS, just not enough.

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 01:12 PM
I think what separates most of us from Ion is a sense of pride and personal responsibility. When I muff a race, I can pretty much tell you the exact spots in the race I screwed up - bad turn, poor form, not enough rest, etc. Ion seems to think the cards are stacked against him - late bloomer, V02Max, USMS not honoring him. Anyone who grinds out his kind of yardage yet sees only minute improvement in times must feel compelled to blame it on others, not look inward.

I swim because I love it and I imporove or get worse of my own doing. Ion, you'd probably be much happier if you'd take a more pleasant and enjoyable view of swimming and all it does for you. As it stands now you come across as angry and jaded at an organization that really exists solely to benefit you and improve your overall fitness. No one seems exactly sure why you are so bitter against USMS. What have they done to you other than host meets, give you this forum for your rants and enabled to you compete in a sport you allegedly love?

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:17 PM
Originally posted by aquageek

...
Ion seems to think the cards are stacked against him - late bloomer, V02Max, USMS not honoring him.
...

If I address this, then you complain that I speak just about me?

My posts in this thread are mainly about challenges of others.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 01:20 PM
Gosh Ion, USMS is not into building statues or bronze sculptures to immortalize an also ran swimmer like me, who has overcome an element of adversity to swim some decent, (but not spectacular) Top Ten Times. I think…or…should I say; I believe they have gone way over and above in recognizing my successes and accomplishments. Heck, they put a color picture and ¼ page article about me in Swim Magazine. That, in my thinking is going way over and above.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison

...
Heck, they put a color picture and ¼ page article about me in Swim Magazine. That, in my thinking is going way over and above.
For someone who missed that Swim magazine in 1997, it is not emphasized at all in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003.

I bet in 2003 there were opportunities to mention it again, instead of other things that were printed.

gull
April 2nd, 2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza
My posts in this thread are mainly about challenges of others.

Yes, but the point is that they overcame the challenges and achieved greatness.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:32 PM
Originally posted by gull80


Yes, but the point is that they overcame the challenges and achieved greatness.
I think that you don't know what overcoming a challenge means to me.

To me it doesn't mean to achieve greatness like you just wrote.

To me it means to become a champion of oneself.

laineybug
April 2nd, 2004, 01:32 PM
But the point that USMS doesn't emphasize it enough, stands.

I'm tasting sour grapes here--I bet this is due to the fact that you've never been recognized by USMS.

Ion, how much is enough?

gull
April 2nd, 2004, 01:34 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

I think that you don't know what overcoming a challenge means to me.

To me it doesn't mean to achieve greatness like you just wrote.

To me it means to become a champion of oneself.

Then you shouldn't need validation of your achievements by USMS.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by laineybug


I'm tasting sour grapes here--I bet this is due to the fact that you've never been recognized by USMS.

Ion, how much is enough?
I am tasting the overzealous psychologist here.

Elaine, how much is enough?

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:38 PM
Originally posted by gull80

Then you shouldn't need validation of your achievements by USMS.
You catch on this just now?

Remember 'Enjoyed the article about us ordinary people' back in September where my opinions earned me a two week suspension from the forum?

I stated this ages ago.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 01:39 PM
Ion, in complete and total defense of USMS, the reason they have not mentioned me in the last few years is born out of the fact that I have been dealing with some rather tense issues in my life and have not swam as much as I would like to swim or should swim. That is not USMS’s fault, it is my fault, my lot in life.

Heck, I have not paid my USMS dues in the past two years because I have not had the money to do so…….yet, they afford me the opportunity to keep up with the spirit of USMS and the camaraderie associated with USMS, by allowing me to post, read and enjoy this forum.

I have zero complaints!

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 01:41 PM
Instead of records and different categories, perhapos FINA could just keep stats on athletes and then run statistical analisys.
I don;t think they should water diown records.
Perhaps find some other ways to recognize people for special achievements.

gull
April 2nd, 2004, 01:41 PM
I stated this ages ago.

Yes, Ion, and I believe you dismissed the concept of internal rewards, which is what drives most of us, as New Age pablum.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:44 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison

...
I have zero complaints!
You don't but me I do complain that the challenge was not emphasized enough.

laineybug
April 2nd, 2004, 01:46 PM
Elaine, how much is enough?

Ion, it was a rhetorical question. You miss a lot of the subtle nuisances in the informal way Americans speak.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by gull80
Yes, Ion, and you dismissed the concept of internal rewards, which is what drives most of us, as New Age pablum.
Not entirely.

I said that I value the internal but that I am not a monk and I performed well last year when cheered on by teammates.

One who was a champion of oneself is Tim Shaw, described in the book 'Four Champions, one Gold Medal'.

But he was not immune to external rewards either.

When he had anemia in 1976 and people were turning away from him in meets, he was affected too.

laineybug
April 2nd, 2004, 01:49 PM
Ion, if overcoming a challenge means championing one's self, then it is Tom's place to complain about the lack of recognition of the challenge, not yours, and as he said, he has zero complaints.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by laineybug


Ion, it was a rhetorical question. You miss a lot of the subtle nuisances in the informal way Americans speak.
Mine is a rhetorical question too.

You miss a lot of the subtle nuances (not 'nuisances' like you just wrote, 'nuisances' means something else totally different) in the informal way I speak.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 01:53 PM
I differ with this:

Originally posted by laineybug
Ion, if overcoming a challenge means championing one's self, then it is Tom's place to complain about the lack of recognition of the challenge, not yours, and as he said, he has zero complaints.
Inspirational challenges are welcome by me.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 01:55 PM
Ok, Ion, I will take the bait....How much emphasis do your think would have been enough for me? Heck, I am the guy who banged away, trained and planned for those swims and achieved an element or small degree of success, and I am MORE then happy with the recognition and emphasis given me.

What more could I possibly want, deserve or expect? Especially when I swim a couple of minutes slower in the mile then the greats in my age group; like Jim Mc Conica, Kevin Polanski, Keith Bell, Bill Cerney, Larry Woods, Leo French and many other guys who have pounded me like a drum in that event..and...most of them do it year in, year out, year in, year out....

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 02:01 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
....How much emphasis do your think would have been enough for me?
....

For you, as little as you want.

For me, more emphasis than what you are happy with.

If this emphasis is intruding in your private life and you don't want more of this, then there are other challenges that can be emphasized.

laineybug
April 2nd, 2004, 02:03 PM
Thanks Ion, I'll let you proof read my psychological evaluation reports for me, I could use a secretary that can proof read.

Ion, Americans communicate informally (we make typos, we don't use perfect grammar, etc.) and over look things like typos in forms like this. Would I have allowed something like that to get by in formal writing? No.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 02:07 PM
Ok, I can buy that answer Ion. Please, let me propose a question then. If your were ME, given my situation, knowing what I overcame, and the small degree of success I achieved in USMS, what amount or degree of recognition, emphasis would you want….and in what forum?

gull
April 2nd, 2004, 02:07 PM
What's inspirational about Tom's story, and that of others like him, is that he overcame the challenge. That he did it without drawing attention to himself or seeking special recognition makes it that much more impressive.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

You hadn't been insulted by me.

You and who thinks otherwise re-read my post.

More slowly.

It says that you overcame a challenge that was not seen.

USMS has an obscurantist way that doesn't see challenges.

maybe if you stopped grandstanding, people would be more expectant of something good and respectful coming out of you.

You know, the majority of the responsibility of a message being understood falls on the comunicator, not the listener.

In an attempt to yet again sound oh so superior, you obscuranted your own message.
Try plain english next time, instead of the peacocky poppycock that you write.

So, now don't go putting people down and blaming them for your ineffective communication style. It's noone but your own damn fault that most people didn't, or didn't bother to try and understand what you said. Also, even though, in an extremely awkeard and self serving way, you tried to give Tom kudos for what he overcame, in the same breath you attacked the organization (USMS) that he believes in.
Well, no **** sherlock, preople aren't gonna like what and how you say it, even if in an obscure way you attempt to say something positive.
You know, using fancy language is no sign if superiority. Actually using it in a casual forum such as this (out of place) is not very smart.

As for obscurantisam in USMS, that's just your skewed perception. There is plenty of recognition even in the SWIM magazine for peoples accomplishmenmts, including mine, which is hardly an accomplishment, compared to many other people.

The reasons you aren't getting the pat on the back that you so badly think you deserve is yet again, internal, on your part, and it has to do with your attitude, and nothing to do with USMS, other than perhaps the fact taht it's an organization run by humans, who will react to your bad attitude, just like any human would.

The biggest thing you have to overcome is yourself. You've got a long way to go. If some day you do, you migh even get noted for it. For now, you're stuck in your own piss and vinegar, and it will be like that no matter where you are, home, work, swim team or any other place you find yourself.

And, you should be aware that most people in here are rather annoyed with your going on and harping on your own agenda. Heard you the first time, disagreed, repeating is just annoying people, and not getting them any closer to being on your side, if anything, you're driving them aeay, even if somewhere far away and long ago you might have had a decent idea, it's now lost under your Mount Attitude.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 02:16 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

The way I constructed my statement is to say that USMS -not me- removed your efforts and grammatically lumped you "...in with this obscurantism process.".

How?

Simply by not reporting your efforts.

Elsewhere, U.S. Swimming did report someone's efforts.

And somewhere in the US someone won the lottery today, and you didn't. So what.
get out of that communist way of thinking.
People all over the world overcome all kinds of huge obstacles, and none of us ever hear about most of it.
Just the fact that they may have not gotten the external praise for their efforts, doesn't mean that their efforts are minimized or not appreciated.
One's value as a person does not revolve around how much external praise they get. Yours shouldn't eiter.

Msparks378
April 2nd, 2004, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

If I address this, then you complain that I speak just about me?

My posts in this thread are mainly about challenges of others.

Ion - these others you speak of aren't complaining. Just the opposite, these "others" are the ones who give you the most support for overcoming your particular obstacles.

I take great pride overcoming my own obstacles to achieve my goals. I am inspired by people like Tom whose obstacles were much greater than mine. I'm also inspired by the "ordinary" people and the "extrordinary" people recognized by USMS and the different magazines.

Most Master's swimmers I meet have a good story. It is a shame that everyone can't receive public accolades. But you know what? There just isn't enough room in the papers or on the podium for everyone. Such is life.

I'm thrilled when I achieve a PB or finish a grueling workout. My team mates and friends from the USMS pat me on the back and recoqnize my efforts.

The USMS does recognize the efforts of the early, late and middle bloomers. They do it every day. We just don't have a top ten list for every possible acheivement.

Food for thought!! :)

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 02:19 PM
Wow Connie:
I sure as heck would not want to be your boyfriend if you found another girls underwear in the bed……SMILE….and ….just kidding…..
You missed you calling my friend….You would have made an excellent Marine Corps Drill Instructor! You’re a tough guy in a very pretty ladies body….and that is a compliment.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 02:25 PM
Please forgive my demented sense of humor! I couldn't help myself...

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

For someone who missed that Swim magazine in 1997, it is not emphasized at all in 1998, 1999, 2000, 2001, 2002 and 2003.

I bet in 2003 there were opportunities to mention it again, instead of other things that were printed.

So what if it wasn't.
Your own post proves what I just said couple of posts ago, your perceptions are not in sync with reality.

Just look at the last swim magazine,. and the recognition several people got for overcoming their weight problems. Look at the NOV/Dec 2003 Swim Magazine and the article on Barbara Dunbar and congenital hip condition, and a hip replacement surgery...

Just about each issue of swim magazine has a story about a swimmer that overcame adversity. Yet again you know not what you speak of, and yes, you do speak too soon, because you're so zealous to push your agenda of anti-USMS-isam.

This alleged USMS obscurantisam only exists in your head.

swimr4life
April 2nd, 2004, 02:31 PM
Grow up Ion. We don't get lolipopps when we are good at the Dr.'s office anymore either!:(

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

I think that you don't know what overcoming a challenge means to me.

To me it doesn't mean to achieve greatness like you just wrote.

To me it means to become a champion of oneself.

Then why do you have this need to go around whining about your challenges being recognized by others, and more specifically the USMS.
If you;re the champion of yourself, then keep it to yourself. You;d be surprized just how many people are cap[able of recognizing someone's accomplishments, without a person having to pound their chest and point them out.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 02:33 PM
yea, but I get a gold star....:D

ESPECIALLY WHEN I AM A GOOD BOY....

Scansy
April 2nd, 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Please forgive my demented sense of humor! I couldn't help myself...

That's what we all like best about you Tom!:D

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by swimr4life
Grow up Ion.
...

I thought you promised to use 'Ignore' on me.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

I am tasting the overzealous psychologist here.

Elaine, how much is enough?

Copycat.
Come up with a comeback of your own, and not an avoidant deflection of an argument, oh the superior one.

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 02:35 PM
Gold? we...we can get gold? I only got a stinkin silver star! I'm tellin!!!!!!!!!:mad: :D

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 02:36 PM
Thank you Paul, but sometimes they shoot the messenger...

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 02:36 PM
As for Tom's challenge I find it inspirational.

If Tom doesn't want to trumpet it, I am not a paparazzi to trumpet it.

There should be more challenges that are shown, that's my opinion.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

You catch on this just now?

Remember 'Enjoyed the article about us ordinary people' back in September where my opinions earned me a two week suspension from the forum?

I stated this ages ago.

I hardly think it's your opinions that earned you a suspension.
But hey, denial is a powerful coping mechanisam.

Scansy
April 2nd, 2004, 02:36 PM
Gold star? Silver star?

I only got a shot and an enima. Not nearly as enjoyable as a shot and a beer.:(

dorothyrd
April 2nd, 2004, 02:36 PM
Tom, you always make me laugh. I sincerely hope your tribulations will come to an end soon!

Connie, wow, very well said!

Ion, taking Tom's question to you with a different slant. You seem to dance around this question. What do YOU want USMS to do to better serve YOU. What are you missing from them? Do you want an article about YOU every year in Swim? Don't tell me to go back and read something from 2001, because I won't do it. I just don't know what would make you happy? Can you give tangible, achievable items that would make you happy with USMS. I want a list, I don't want vagueness. If you give vagueness, and just tell me to go read 2001 postings, then I think you are complaining to complain.

When one has a complaint, there are 2 things you can do. You can complain, and complain, and complain and do nothing. Or you can try and affect change. To do that you have to identify clearly what that change should be. You may have some very valid items that need to be addressed, but to me, it is not real clear what they are.

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by Conniekat8


Copycat.
Come up with a comeback of your own, and not an avoidant deflection of an argument, oh the superior one.
Now Connie's bickering starts.

That's what she wants:

to mindlessly bicker about me.

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 02:38 PM
Paul, have a beer! (_)D and a shot! \_/ on me!!!! Down the hatch everyone!!!!:D

dorothyrd
April 2nd, 2004, 02:39 PM
OK, while typing you did answer with challenges of Tom's nature should be highlighted. I actually think that is very true. What can one do to achieve that. Maybe write Swim to let them know about people like Tom. I imagine there are many, many heros out there that we all know. That would be a more positive way to get this done.

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 02:40 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza


My posts in this thread are mainly about challenges of others.

Yes, in this thread, Beza, it is mostly you backtracking on your insults of other.

On every other thread you subject us to, all you do is talk about yourself. After all, how do we know that you are a late bloomer, suffer horrid V02MAx, came from Communist East Bumbleflink, worked 38 jobs, now work at Intel, swam in MD, IL and now CA, etc? All you do is is promote your own silly excuses, lame jabs and blatant lies.

I know more about youon this forum than anyone else. The irony is I desire to know less about you than any others. You are no source of inspiration, you are a source of perspiration, an angry jaded man who feels because he grinds out a lot of yards he deserves special USMS recognition. If you ask me, based on the responses you are getting, you might finally be receiving something of value from USMS now - namely, a lesson in humility.

Back off, Bubba.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 02:42 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

You don't but me I do complain that the challenge was not emphasized enough.

You always complain about something it's hard to keep track of what your latest beef is.
Ever heard the story of a boy that cried wolf?

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 02:43 PM
I think some of y'all like to argue just to argue! Grab some popcorn everyone, the show is about to start again and again and again! Once again, Ion has come in and diverted a perfectly reasonable, fun and funny thread into the Ion show!

Ion, take a number from the little hand grenade looking thing and go sit in the corner until we call you!!!! Please!:D

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 02:45 PM
Originally posted by dorothyrd

Ion, taking Tom's question to you with a different slant. You seem to dance around this question. What do YOU want USMS to do to better serve YOU. What are you missing from them?

There has never been an easier question to answer.

Ion wants USMS to call him a great swimmer, not due to his actual swimming, but due to his unrealized perceived potential as a great swimmer.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 02:57 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

Not entirely.

I said that I value the internal but that I am not a monk and I performed well last year when cheered on by teammates.

One who was a champion of oneself is Tim Shaw, described in the book 'Four Champions, one Gold Medal'.

But he was not immune to external rewards either.

When he had anemia in 1976 and people were turning away from him in meets, he was affected too.

Ion, you have very different expectations of yourself, than you have of others. You expect people to support you and build you up, while you tear them down.
It doesn't work that way.

And, your statement that you're not a monk contradicts with your recent boast about your strength of character.

Your 'I'm not a monk' statement tells me there is lack of mental toughness that would make a person into a top competitor.
Ever heard a story of a speed skater Dan Jansen???
(sorry guys, speed skating is my other favorite sport)

And, I have a privilege to swim with Brian Godell. I'm sure somewhere deep down inside he likes a pat on his back, but the guy is so humble, you'd never know it. And it most definately does not affect his performance.

Ion, you have a lot to learn when it comes to emotional intelligence.

dorothyrd
April 2nd, 2004, 02:58 PM
I have Jan/Feb Swim on my desk(don't have Connie's issue cause I tossed it before I knew she was in it, dang it!).

They highlight Caroline Drattli who is 41 and holds bunches of world records. Her training ethic certainly shows that she does not "rely" on her age group days, but is working hard now to achieve what she wants. No she does not put in 2 a days, or 8000 yard work-outs because it looks to me like she desires balance with family and other activities. I liked the article, I enjoy reading about the stars in the sport. It is followed by helpful breastsroke article.

There is an article about Brenda Bredvic and applying her art to her swimming. She was not an age group swimmer, took up swimming as rehab. This is an article about your average swimmer who has an interest in art and melds the two. Looks to me like this is an article more in line to what you want.

Coach Eddie Reese article was fun. An old guy who has coached a long time but been out of the water, gets back in and has to endure the scrutiny of the kids he coaches. Yes he was he was a good age grouper, but he is a guy who had been out of the water for 40 years. I found it light hearted and funny.

An article about a non swimmer who collects swimmer memorabilia, again an average Joe.

There is a picture of Gus Langner, 95 swimming his postal swim. Don't know if he was age group or not, but anyone 95 doing a postal swim has my vote as being inspirational!

I happen to think they do a pretty good job of covering the entire scope, world class, to average Joe.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 02:59 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza
I differ with this:

Inspirational challenges are welcome by me.

There have been plenty of them for you right here in this forum. I haven't seen you taken any.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza

For you, as little as you want.

For me, more emphasis than what you are happy with.

If this emphasis is intruding in your private life and you don't want more of this, then there are other challenges that can be emphasized.

Ion, you wouldn't be happy withh 9 gold medals, you lack something on the inside that three pounds of gold couldn't fill up.
The sad thing is, you're the only one that can fill that up, and no amount of praise or recogniotion is gonna do it.
Till you fill it up for yourself, that void stays with you no matter where you are.

mattson
April 2nd, 2004, 03:07 PM
To be fair:
1) A lot of people were baiting Ion in this thread, before he replied. While it was done in humor, I wasn't surprised when it came back to bite you all in the backside. ;)

2) Ion has posted (in a thread from last fall) what he wanted Swim Magazine to print. About half were of personal interest to him, the other half were points which I believe Swim magazine has covered in the last few months. (As a counterpoint, getting Ion to produce the list, instead of more insults at USMS/Swim magazine, was like pulling teeth. :) )

3) I think it is fair to say that stories about people losing weight, do not interest Ion. He has stated many times about how most swimmers are "lazy and fat". He probably feels there are too many stories about these sort of people, instead of "slim and strong" people like himself.

I do find it interesting that Ion assumes that, just because someone has an advantage of swimming in age group, that they are lazy.

dorothyrd
April 2nd, 2004, 03:12 PM
I did not know that, so since I have no advantage, I am not lazy. Actually it is true, I am not lazy, but do lean toward the fat side(especially if I don't swim), blows that theory!

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 03:13 PM
Mattson:

I will bet you $5 and a new speedo that Ion will quote you no less than 60 times in the next year. He tends to adopt any support of him and use it as ammo to insult others. Then, he'll decide maybe he doesn't like you anymore. See posts he's co-opted from gull80 and Ellison.

Taking up with Ion is bad news for you. Kind of like what we used to call beer goggling or the coyote in college.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:13 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Wow Connie:
I sure as heck would not want to be your boyfriend if you found another girls underwear in the bed……SMILE….and ….just kidding…..
You missed you calling my friend….You would have made an excellent Marine Corps Drill Instructor! You’re a tough guy in a very pretty ladies body….and that is a compliment.

BWAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Conniekat... my motto is: "Have claws - will travel." ;)

Hey, I'm just a poor little girl all alone and 6000 miles away from family, I have to fend for myself. [innocent look]
:D

PS. I've never had a boyfriend that would even think of finding himself near another girls underwear..... wonder why ;) ...okay, kidding, maybe, meybe not, yea, no, sure, maybe, hmmmph!

dorothyrd
April 2nd, 2004, 03:14 PM
And MArk, since your thread last fall coaxed me into going to Nationals, I am there. The psych is posted which scares me and also thrills me. Be nice to me, this is my first Nationals!

And man are those ladies in my age group fast!! Can't wait to watch, I think I am there more to watch then swim. :)

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 03:19 PM
Hey, I see Gary Hall has entered, outstanding news!

Talk about someone who is an early bloomer with good V02Max.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:20 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Please forgive my demented sense of humor! I couldn't help myself...

I dunno what to do first...
peel myself off the floor laughing
or
wipe the laughing tears off my face!

And my abs, my poor abs, I think I need some IBS ointment to soothe the burning.

HELP, I'm laughing, and I can't stop! :D :D :D :D
[gasping for air, and not even swimming]

laineybug
April 2nd, 2004, 03:20 PM
Actually, Ion, I've supported your position a couple of times and agree with you in this thread to a certain point. I'm not going back to find your exact words, but when you say you want more people to understand/recognize/how ever you phrased it-- challenges, not create categories for it, I agree. I believe that there are folks who write off a disability as something that isn't real; that it is used to get an unfair advantage. People are more likely to recognize a disability that they can see, and poo hoo those they can't. Having said that, Ion, you aren't disabled and really haven't done anything, another person, in your position couldn't do. Your carping about lack of recognition of those who have overcome challenges is a thin veil for "I want everyone to recognize what a superman I am". I do applaud your effort and drive though, some might have just given up.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
yea, but I get a gold star....:D

ESPECIALLY WHEN I AM A GOOD BOY....

Conniekat8:
Pins a Gold Star on Tom's ..... chest.

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 03:26 PM
Connie (Look of absolute shock) Where is mine? I used VO2Max Shampoo, VO5 Conditioner and am a Late/Early/Mid Bloomer with uh uh uh uhm one arm shorter then the other!!!!:D

mattson
April 2nd, 2004, 03:26 PM
Aquageek, I understand what you are saying. My point is, there is enough to criticize about Ion's irrational arguments, without reaching or baiting. (If you are shooting fish in a barrel, why use dynamite?)

I also tried to aim the last message at newer posters, who may not have slogged through all the dirt that you and I have (over the last year or two).

I also think that if he tried, Ion could misquote you into saying something positive about him. :D (In fact, I'm sure that he already did.)

I am amused that you, Craig, and I all started by having trying to have civil discussions with Ion, using critical thinking. You have definitely turned to the Dark Side. Craig is sliding down that slope. I've definitely given up.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:28 PM
Originally posted by mattson
To be fair:
1) A lot of people were baiting Ion in this thread, before he replied. While it was done in humor, I wasn't surprised when it came back to bite you all in the backside. ;)

2) Ion has posted (in a thread from last fall) what he wanted Swim Magazine to print. About half were of personal interest to him, the other half were points which I believe Swim magazine has covered in the last few months. (As a counterpoint, getting Ion to produce the list, instead of more insults at USMS/Swim magazine, was like pulling teeth. :) )

3) I think it is fair to say that stories about people losing weight, do not interest Ion. He has stated many times about how most swimmers are "lazy and fat". He probably feels there are too many stories about these sort of people, instead of "slim and strong" people like himself.

I do find it interesting that Ion assumes that, just because someone has an advantage of swimming in age group, that they are lazy.

You know, by the same logic, I could pound on Ion, and say that since he's been athletic in his youth, he has an unfair advantage. he doesn;'t seem to have had to overcome certain genetic issues that I have. Whouldn't be right, would it???

That's just the thing with Ion, he wants to be appreciated, but does not appreciate anyone or anything, at least he doesn't come across like he does. Perhaps somewhere deep down inside he does, but doesn't know how to show it. If he wants more recognition and praise and acceptance in his life, that's what he needs to work on. Learning how to get it, rather than wasting his time demanding it.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:35 PM
Originally posted by dorothyrd
I did not know that, so since I have no advantage, I am not lazy. Actually it is true, I am not lazy, but do lean toward the fat side(especially if I don't swim), blows that theory!

Yeah, I've beed diagnosed with endogenous obesity in my 20's... basically, genetic.
When I learned that, I went to work, and got from beiong well over 100 pounds overweight to being withing 0-40 pounds of my goal weight for last 12 years. I'm one of those very few people that kept it off. Went from a size 22 to size 2 and a bikini.
Not a single excuse as to why "I can't"
And, it wasn't easy.
The best thing I got out of that, and some other challenges, is not physical condition... it's the fact taht I know that no matter what life throwes at me, I'll end up on top. I can say, I can do anything I set my mind to.

[Someone drag me off the soapbox already!] :p

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:38 PM
Originally posted by tjburk
Connie (Look of absolute shock) Where is mine? I used VO2Max Shampoo, VO5 Conditioner and am a Late/Early/Mid Bloomer with uh uh uh uhm one arm shorter then the other!!!!:D

Pins a Gold Star on tracy's ..... lapel.

mattson
April 2nd, 2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by Conniekat8
You know, by the same logic, I could pound on Ion, and say that since he's been athletic in his youth, he has an unfair advantage. he doesn;'t seem to have had to overcome certain genetic issues that I have. Whouldn't be right, would it??

I was going to say that, if you were living in IonWorld, it would be right. But then I remembered, unless you are Ion living in IonWorld, there has to be a loophole somewhere. :p

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:40 PM
Originally posted by mattson
(If you are shooting fish in a barrel, why use dynamite?)


Uh-oh, true, okay, I'll stop.... for now.

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 03:41 PM
You are right, Mattson, I did try to be civil and use logical thinking. I even apologized at one point. What was the sum total of that? I got called a fat, bad skinned, swamp dwelling, NASCAR loving, slow swimming and ignorant Southerner by our communist protagonist.

Dang it, only two of those are true.

I did engage Gull80 in some medical discourse at one time and do honestly feel bad about that. I went over the line, sorry gull80. I like to pick on The Bug, but that's only because I imagine her as some beautiful mermaid.

I'm not about to apologize anymore to Capt. Unqualifications. Well, maybe I will when he can substantiate even one of his posts.

dorothyrd
April 2nd, 2004, 03:41 PM
Man Connie, I only dropped 4 sizes and it cost me a fortune to replace my clothes(14-8). 22-2 is incredible!

For someone who has never had to fight the battle of weight, it may seem insignificant, but it is one of the hardest things that many, many people do, lose weight and then keep it off.

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 03:42 PM
:D :D :D :D :D Throws hands in the air triumphantly and screams .......Thank You World!!!!

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:45 PM
Originally posted by tjburk
:D :D :D :D :D Throws hands in the air triumphantly and screams .......Thank You World!!!!

Oh, you're so easily pleased :)
That's an endearing quality!

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 03:46 PM
Yeah, and I am, cheap too!!!!;)

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:47 PM
Originally posted by dorothyrd
Man Connie, I only dropped 4 sizes and it cost me a fortune to replace my clothes(14-8). 22-2 is incredible!

For someone who has never had to fight the battle of weight, it may seem insignificant, but it is one of the hardest things that many, many people do, lose weight and then keep it off.

Thanks.
It's constrant work.
Swimming is work only a few hours a day.

Guess it's a good thing I like to be a busy body.

mattson
April 2nd, 2004, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by aquageek
I got called a fat, bad skinned, swamp dwelling, NASCAR loving, slow swimming and ignorant Southerner by our communist protagonist.

Dang it, only two of those are true.

I didn't realize that you liked NASCAR. ;)

I did engage Gull80 in some medical discourse at one time and do honestly feel bad about that. I went over the line, sorry gull80. I like to pick on The Bug, but that's only because I imagine her as some beautiful mermaid.

That's what I like. As soon as the discussion moved away from Ion's arguments, towards a real issue, both you and Craig were rational and civil.

I'm not about to apologize...

If anything I've said implied that you have anything to apologize for, then I'm the one who should be apologizing. :D

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 03:51 PM
Originally posted by tjburk
Yeah, and I am, cheap too!!!!;)
Well, I dunno, I never had to pay for that kind of a thing.
How much is cheap?

[sorry, I couldn't resist, you left yourself wide open there] ;)

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 03:54 PM
Southern Champagne and Caviar


RC Cola and a Moon Pie and I'll be yours forever!!!!!:D

dorothyrd
April 2nd, 2004, 03:55 PM
Oh my, this is getting back to being funny! Just when I have to leave. Have a good weekend, everybody(yes you too Ion), and if you are swimming, swim great!

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 03:57 PM
Dorothy...I started in this world as a "Little Swimmer" pun intended, and I'll leave this world swimming somehow! Have a great weekend!

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by mattson


I was going to say that, if you were living in IonWorld, it would be right. But then I remembered, unless you are Ion living in IonWorld, there has to be a loophole somewhere. :p

my head is spinning from the loopy circular arguments.

mattson
April 2nd, 2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by Conniekat8
my head is spinning from the loopy circular arguments.

Ah, but even a circle has two sides (inside and outside). The Moebius strip of Ion only has one side... ;)

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 04:02 PM
Originally posted by dorothyrd
Oh my, this is getting back to being funny! Just when I have to leave. Have a good weekend, everybody(yes you too Ion), and if you are swimming, swim great!

Have fun!

Well, you couldn't possibly nave more fun then here with us, but we'll let you try the grass on the other side. ;)

Okay ConnieKat, shut up already, you're not as amusing as you think you are. :rolleyes:

Ion Beza
April 2nd, 2004, 04:05 PM
I leave you in this thread.

My position is above.

I clarified the perceived insult to Tom as a non insult, to the contrary.

It gets into mindless bickering now.

Happy mindless bickering to the ones who like to do it.

Conniekat8
April 2nd, 2004, 04:06 PM
Originally posted by mattson


Ah, but even a circle has two sides (inside and outside). The Moebius strip of Ion only has one side... ;)

Is that algebra or calculus? Or perhaps geometry? I mean, we *have* to be scientifically precise here ;)
And if a traveler stays on one side of a mobius strip, will he approach infinity? And how does that affect the matricized approximation og his hydrodynamics? Would it depend on the type and the rate of his stroke or is he stuck in an eternal doggy paddle?

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 04:06 PM
Ok, C Ya, Bye Bye, Ok Lady Love You BuBye!!!!:D

Scansy
April 2nd, 2004, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by tjburk
Yeah, and I am, cheap too!!!!;)

So many possible meanings....

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 04:10 PM
Connie, according to Tom...VO2Max Shampoo with VO5 Conditioner and his new Power Boost (I added a Flux Capacitor with Gyro Stabilization, MUCH faster) Negate all of the ethereal influences!:D

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 04:12 PM
Paul, nope, just one meaning! I'm a sucker for the ladies!:D Hope this doesn't offend anyone, I'll apologize before I even say it...... I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body!!!!!!:D

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 04:27 PM
Originally posted by Ion Beza
I leave you in this thread.

Happy mindless bickering to the ones who like to do it.

Is that a promise or another story you will change later?

Strangely enough, the mindless bickering on this forum only shows up when you do. Coincidence?

This forum was a happy place for a week.

tjburk
April 2nd, 2004, 04:32 PM
Well, I am off to go coach the wee little ones!!! Y'all have a good weekend!!!!:D

gull
April 2nd, 2004, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by aquageek
I did engage Gull80 in some medical discourse at one time and do honestly feel bad about that. I went over the line, sorry gull80.

Apology accepted. I have a pretty thick skin anyway. By the way, will you be swimming in Raleigh May 1? I was thinking about swimming the 1000. . . Didn't you say something about wearing a clown suit?

effi
April 2nd, 2004, 05:19 PM
Aquageek:
Protagonist?
I think the literary term for the character might be "agent provocateur." What do you think?

aquageek
April 2nd, 2004, 05:27 PM
I'm not smart enough to know a provocoteur being an illeterate swamp dwelling southerner...

...who enjoys NASCAR, Mattson.

Fritz
April 2nd, 2004, 06:09 PM
Originally posted by gull80


Apology accepted. I have a pretty thick skin anyway. By the way, will you be swimming in Raleigh May 1? I was thinking about swimming the 1000. . . Didn't you say something about wearing a clown suit?

I'm saving a lane for him.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 06:09 PM
Ion,
I accept your clarification of my perceived insult from you. I also sincerely apologize for the grief you have taken here today, which in part, is based on my reaction to your post. My intent was not to humiliate you or berate you. Please for your sake and for everyone else’s sake on the forum, think very carefully as to your choice of words before posting. MANY, MANY people took your post as I first did, so my initial perception had to have basis.

Have a nice weekend….and we will talk on the forum next week….

Kindest regards,
Tom Ellison

gull
April 2nd, 2004, 06:52 PM
With all due respect Tom, I see no need to apologize. This was really just a continuation of an ongoing debate that jumps from thread to thread. Speaking for myself, I don't believe I was giving Ion grief, but I was challenging his point of view (which he expresses in a very direct and confrontational manner).

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 06:53 PM
Aquageek Quote:

"I got called a fat, bad skinned, swamp dwelling, NASCAR loving, slow swimming and ignorant Southerner ...."

Hey Geek, is your sisters name spray painted on the side of the high school....? If it is not, then your an upper class southerner...:D

Aquageek: The Elmer Gulespie of USMS.....;)

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 07:06 PM
Craig, I appreciate what you’re saying and I do not have a problem with your posts…and I respect your thoughts on my apology to Ion. I attempted to lessen the beating he took today partly due to my misunderstanding the thrust of his post.

I read the entire thread this-evening about three times. I honestly believe his lack of sophistication with the English language gets him into trouble as much as his inability to back away from a post he may have been in error. Anyway, I didn’t want the guy going into the weekend feeling like the entire USMS community was hacked off at him.

I just do not see malice in him, I see some other issues that are none of my business and my previous posts are clear in the manner in which I have attempted to reach out to him. Hey, I make mistakes just like the next guy, and I may have misunderstood his post and wanted to make sure I admitted that to him and everyone else.

Have a great week everyone….I will be on the road driving back east this weekend for job possibilities. I may not have the opportunity to post for a period of time, so you all take care and be nice to one another…

As always,
Kindest regards,
Tom Ellison

old dog
April 2nd, 2004, 07:13 PM
Farewell, Mr. Ellison.
Your friend,
Old Dog

2go+h20
April 2nd, 2004, 07:17 PM
On a different tack, I would like to repost a question I asked Ion on another thread, and have not had a reply.
I copied a quote from Ion,
"That 90% of USMS -including you, Connie and lots of posters in this thread- are slower than me in the 1,000 free and beyond?"
Ion,
What is your time for a) a 5km distance? b) a 10km distance?
c) a 25km distance? d) a 34km distance? e) any other distance swum over 5kms.
HAve you ever participated in the open water section of the World MAsters Swimming Championships? If so where, when, water temperature, what distance and finishing time.
When giving these results of each swim completed, please include if it was a FINA sanctioned meet, what the water temp was, and where it took place.
I am interested to see what your 'beyond' means.
By the way, I have done all of these swims without a wetsuit at the tender age of 43-49 and counting, and I am a type 1 insulin dependent diabetic which is not easy. Keeping blood sugars level and training for all events both indoor and outdoor.
Like Tom, I take every day as it comes. And when I can train, I certainly make excellent use of each session.

old dog
April 2nd, 2004, 07:24 PM
kiwi,
You are amazing. I don't remember Mr Beza making substantive
replies to your posts. Correct me if I am wrong. You are a
shining example of contradiction to the norm....
Congrats! Big time.

swimr4life
April 2nd, 2004, 07:50 PM
Tom, You are the epitome of a gentleman! Good luck with your possible new job. We all hope you get it! You are in our thoughts and prayers!

2go+h20
April 2nd, 2004, 11:28 PM
Thanks Old Dog,
I always wanted to be a swimmer as a child but the opportunity wasn't there. So I learnt to swim at 33. When I first joined a masters team I thought they were so serious, caps and goggles and speedos. (I thought speedos were for Olympic athletes) I knew sidestroke and a form of freestyle. I thought the workouts on the board were like a foreign language. So, with pun intended, I have come a long way. OVercoming a huge fear of the open water, but totally loving anything and most strokes, (I can only do breastroke with a fly kick) that has to do with swimming.
I am proud of all of my achievements, but the one I especially love was at 45 I was selected to swim in the National 10km Open Water swim. IN a very cool 55 degrees I jumped in with the other swimmers. We swam in the ocean in a quite confusing loop system. I had to fight the incoming and cold water for 45 mins at the end. The first swimmer ( 18 yr old male) completed the course in 1hr 57. The first female (17) finished in 2 hrs 02. And I finished in 2 hours and 36 mins.
Managing Type 1 Diabetes during training and especially during the swims longer than 45 mins, I have to stop to take on carbs. this is extremely costly in time (45 secs+), which in the National Championship 5km Open Water is a lot. In swims longer than 90 mins I have to also stop and test my blood for sugar levels and then take on a measured amount of carbs and or protein drinks.
It is not easy treading water and drying a hand, testing keeping the thing dry. I can tell you cramps in the legs are awful out there !! I keep these times seperate from feeding breaks (every 45 mins for the first 30 mins and 30 mins after that.
But I simply love to swim. I so much love to set new goals, challenge myself and achieve them.
As my team mates say, Look out if you swim in that lane you will be doing those crazy distances.
And at meets they love to remind me, 2 lengths and get out.
Our coach started the 26km race last year by saying, "your workout is one length. Pace well and stay even" :p
My Motto: To motivate add water.

Tom Ellison
April 2nd, 2004, 11:44 PM
Kiwi:
I am seriously impressed with your accomplishments especially since you deal with type two diabetes….
I have never swam an open water swim over 10K…and that was akin to being in the grinder. I was totally blown away at some of the serious long distances you swim and what makes it more incredible is your starting so late in life.
As with Old Dog, my hat is off to you…..your an animal my friend….a serious animal….and that is a complement here in USA Swimming.

Karen Duggan
April 3rd, 2004, 01:26 AM
I have an idea, and I'm serious, for once. (VO2 shampoo and bloomers aside of course.)

Since SWIM magazine obviously doesn't have the space to give everyone the recognition they deserve, why don't we start a thread where we can "obtain recognition" and "warm fuzzys" about our every day "challenges" and things we have overcome.

SWIM wouldn't have to send interviewers or photograhers, we could be our own editors (although Ion seems to edit for everyone) and we could share with each other encouraging words, and perhaps kudos.

That might fix Ion. I mean help Ion feel better. That is why we are all here isn't it?

I'll start. Hmm, what to name the thread?

"Hey, look what I've done?"

"It's been challenging and I want everyone to know"

"Ion's Inspirations"

Yes, I think I like the last one. That way we can all share, and, hey, know A LOT more about each other, and Ion will get the honor of a thread named after him (a positive nuisance, I mean nuance to be sure).

Here I go. Check it out.

P.S. Tom, I was hoping you could post your story again. It is truly inspirational.

Tom Ellison
April 3rd, 2004, 01:39 AM
Karen:
GREAT, SUPER IDEA..and positive for all USMS.

Perhaps we could call it....

Walking into the Arena

For I believe...even being broken as I have been these past 19 months..

You can neither win or lose unless you walk into the Arena and give it a whack...

Just my thoughts.....
Tom

breastroker
April 3rd, 2004, 01:56 AM
Wow, I can't believe I read all 11 pages. I have Ion on my ignor list, unfortunately others bring up his words as quotes. Simply amazing how self centered.

There are so many peole in Masters swimming with stories such as Tom's, all who value hard work over praise. The rest of the world is really just like us, it is the FINA officials who are messed up.

I do like the way Australia had more events though, every thing from 25 meters to 400 meters.

What would be really cool would be for someone to have the record in a stroke and age group for say the 25, 50, 100, 200 and 400 meters breaststroke or fly. I can think of a few americans who could do it. Just would be very hard to be good from a true sprint like the 25 all the way to a 400 in the same stroke!

Tom was wrong about Connie, she would not make a good marine Drill sargent, but she is cute. Also very very smart. And single guys! But you would have to get past her 17 pound attack cat.:D

Every swim meet or workout I am always humbled by the classy, wonderful people I meet as part of Masters swimming. I remember one regional championship here at SPMA, we had two generals and an Admiral present the US flag at the start of the meet. No one knew they were of such high rank. We swim with CEO's, attornies who have stood in the US Supreme Court, Olympic gold medal winners, and guess what? We all all the same in our Speedo's. What a wonderful lifelong sport.

Just too bad some one has all day at his work to mis-quote and ruin our enjoyment of our friends here.

Tom Ellison
April 3rd, 2004, 02:15 AM
Wayne: You big knuckle head...I knew all of that stuff about Connie...I was attempting to make her out as some tough guy Jar Head ...so none of these guys would have an interest...then....I could have had a shot for myself...Now I am going to have to compete with the rest of these animals... :(

Heck, now I'll have to use VO2 Max Shampoo just to keep up....Gosh, she is already giving MY gold stars to Tracy... and he isn't a former Jar Head like we are...he is a retired dog face...can it get any worse Wayne...the single poster girl for USMS giving a ret. dog face a Jar Head's gold star....wow, what is this world coming to....

swimr4life
April 3rd, 2004, 06:13 AM
Ion, I would like to apologize to you for my remarks earlier in the thread. I should've just walked away from the computer and let myself calm down before my fingers started typing. I was very angry, I was actually shaking, while I wrote that post. I thought you had insulted Tom, who I think the world of....a very classy & kind man. In some of the following posts you said you did not mean to insult him. If you did not mean your statement that way, I am sorry for attacking you. You are often misunderstood by many on this thread. You are entitled to your opinions. That is what makes this country great. You are entitled by USMS to voice your opinions on this site. Please stop attacking people personally though. I'm sorry if I hurt you.

tjburk
April 5th, 2004, 09:10 AM
Tom.....HOOOOOAAAHHHHH!!!!!!!!

Army Rules!!!!!!

Spent some time at Camp Pendleton..Took the easy way out... joined the Army!!!!:D

At least it wasn't the Air Force!!!!!;)