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knelson
May 26th, 2017, 05:46 PM
Someone told me salt water pools are now disqualified from USMS records and Top Ten eligibility. Is this true? I can't find any reference to this in the rule book.

ForceDJ
May 26th, 2017, 11:10 PM
Well, I haven't heard nor seen anything relating to that. But, I guess it'd make sense...to a degree. Salt water provides more buoyancy and thereby would make 'a' swimmer faster in salt water than in other waters. But what is "salt water"? If I put a dash of salt in an Olympic-size pool does that make is salt water? Maybe it's like the USTAF/IAAF rule for wind-aided events. But in that case wind is allowed up to a certain speed. So, WRT swimming and salt water, I would say that IF such a rules exists it should state the definition of "salt water." Because, not all salt water contains the same amount of salt. The rule should state that water up to a certain mg/L or ppm is allowable for records.

I did come across this:
http://cssf.usc.edu/History/2011/Projects/J0117.pdf

Dan

knelson
May 27th, 2017, 12:03 AM
I found the relevant USMS rules:

105.3.5 A record can only be made in fresh water. No records will be recognized in
any kind of sea or ocean water
and

105.2.4 A Top 10 time can only be made in fresh water. No Top 10 times will be
recognized in any kind of sea or ocean water.

So the key is "sea or ocean water." That means pools using a saline chlorination system would be OK. Unfortunately the pool in question for me uses water pumped in from Puget Sound.

sunruh
May 27th, 2017, 11:56 AM
kirk,
let me just say that "your pool in question" is causing a stir and possibly a rewrite of the rules to include a specific salinity level! ;)
we all know there is a huge difference between a bromine/salt fresh water pool and a sea water pool.

now with that said, imho, if the bouyancy of salt water isnt allowed...can we get all the techsuit records removed as well since some of those were bouyant too! ;)

pwb
May 27th, 2017, 01:23 PM
So the key is "sea or ocean water." That means pools using a saline chlorination system would be OK. Unfortunately the pool in question for me uses water pumped in from Puget Sound.Maybe there is a sub-rule that allows you to counter-balance the salinity with the detrimental effects of pollution on performance - http://komonews.com/archive/clean-water-advocates-release-frightening-facts-about-pollution-in-puget-sound

ForceDJ
May 29th, 2017, 10:05 AM
I found the relevant USMS rules:

and


So the key is "sea or ocean water." That means pools using a saline chlorination system would be OK. Unfortunately the pool in question for me uses water pumped in from Puget Sound.


Do those USMS rules differ from USA Swimming/FINA rules? Or, was an exception made for the 2016 Rio Olympics 10k open water marathon swim?

Dan

sunruh
May 30th, 2017, 09:30 AM
Do those USMS rules differ from USA Swimming/FINA rules? Or, was an exception made for the 2016 Rio Olympics 10k open water marathon swim?

Dan

dan,
in almost all cases the usms rules are identical to the usa-s/fina rules. in a few cases the usms rules are far better than usa-s. lets not compare laughable fina whose vagueness/lacks allowed buoyant neck to ankle teflon zipper suits allowed because speedo paid them.
open water is a separate discipline than pool swimming. since i, myself, swam in the 2012 world masters open water championships in the Adriatic Sea, i am pretty sure its allowed. besides fina would just make it legal for that one meet anyway.

knelson
May 30th, 2017, 03:07 PM
open water is a separate discipline than pool swimming. since i, myself, swam in the 2012 world masters open water championships in the Adriatic Sea, i am pretty sure its allowed. besides fina would just make it legal for that one meet anyway.

Not to mention there are no "records" or "top ten" for open water. Everyone recognizes every open water course is going to be a little different. You can really only compare yourself to the other swimmers in a particular race.

ForceDJ
May 30th, 2017, 04:07 PM
dan,
in almost all cases the usms rules are identical to the usa-s/fina rules. in a few cases the usms rules are far better than usa-s. lets not compare laughable fina whose vagueness/lacks allowed buoyant neck to ankle teflon zipper suits allowed because speedo paid them.
open water is a separate discipline than pool swimming. since i, myself, swam in the 2012 world masters open water championships in the Adriatic Sea, i am pretty sure its allowed. besides fina would just make it legal for that one meet anyway.

Well my curiosity is...who is the governing body for say the open water swim in the Olympics? Is that FINA, or does IOC act as the authority for just that one swimming event?

Dan

knelson
May 30th, 2017, 05:37 PM
Well my curiosity is...who is the governing body for say the open water swim in the Olympics? Is that FINA, or does IOC act as the authority for just that one swimming event?

No, FINA is the governing body for all aquatics events (swimming, open water, diving, water polo, and synchro).

sunruh
May 31st, 2017, 12:48 PM
Well my curiosity is...who is the governing body for say the open water swim in the Olympics? Is that FINA, or does IOC act as the authority for just that one swimming event?

Dan
the IOC currently (for better or worse) recognizes fina as the governing body of all aquatic sports

http://fina.org/content/fina-rules

http://www.fina.org/sites/default/files/finaowrules_20152017.pdf

OWS 1.1
OPEN WATER SWIMMING shall be defined as any competition that takes place
in rivers, lakes, oceans or water channels except for 10km events

OWS 5.2
The course shall be in
water that is subject to only minor currents or tide and may
be salt or fresh water.

this took me all of 3mins to find and post