PDA

View Full Version : Streamlining after flip turns- need advice on how to improve



AlanV212
July 18th, 2017, 10:24 AM
Hi, all. Not sure if this topic has been covered in other threads (searched but didn't find it) so I'm hoping I can get some advice and guidance regarding my flip turns. The issue is that almost immediately after kicking off the wall from my flip turns I feel desperate for air, which forces me to end my streamlining sooner than I should just so that I can take a breath. Additionally, doing a flutter kick or dolphin kick while streamlining makes me feel even more fatigued, which makes me break for air even sooner. The result is that I feel like I spend most of the next lap recovering from the flip turn rather than building on the momentum I should be getting from it. Also, obviously, decreased streamlining means I'm exerting more energy, as I have to swim farther (i.e., higher stroke count per lap).

Are there any drills or workouts I should be focusing on to improve in this area? For reference, when swimming I breathe every third stroke but I'm really bad about not breathing into or out of the turns (i.e., I breathe right before the turn and then have to take two breaths immediately out of the turn since I feel so desperate to breathe). Is this just a mental thing I need to overcome? If so, any advice on how I can get over it?

Thanks in advance for any help. Let me know if I can provide any further info to explain the issue.

Mark Usher
July 18th, 2017, 12:17 PM
What I try to do is forcefully exhale on the last 2-3 breaths before the wall. The accumulation of CO2 in your system is what creates the urge to breathe, not the lack of oxygen per se. Forcefully exhaling can help clear or reduce the CO2.

After turning, I then try to slowly exhale as I streamline and the kick off the wall, rather than holding my breath, which at least for me helps hold off the urge to breathe.

Another thing, which might seem a bit too obvious, is that it's easier the faster I'm swimming.

Like anything else, the more consistently you work on it in practice, the more comfortable it becomes.

ande
July 18th, 2017, 12:25 PM
Hi,

We are humans we need air. Turns are critical for sprinters and important for all swimmers.

Staying under after push offs is just something you need to get used to with training. I confess sometimes I double breathe in and out of turns on long swims or skip breastroke pull outs. But when you're racing, if you want a better time you gotta turn right.

What's your age?
How often do you train? X per week?
how far do you go per practice?
with a team or on your own?
What are your goals? which events? focus events are.

if you want our help on your turns.

Make a video on an iPhone of you swimming freestyle in and out of a turn.
Tell the person to get a side view, not too close, not too far away.
Tell them to film with the phone turned sideways
Then post the video on youtube and post the link here

I'd suggest you arrange a one on one turn clinic to get specific help, but mostly keep training and get used to it.

Ande



Hi, all. Not sure if this topic has been covered in other threads (searched but didn't find it) so I'm hoping I can get some advice and guidance regarding my flip turns. The issue is that almost immediately after kicking off the wall from my flip turns I feel desperate for air, which forces me to end my streamlining sooner than I should just so that I can take a breath. Additionally, doing a flutter kick or dolphin kick while streamlining makes me feel even more fatigued, which makes me break for air even sooner. The result is that I feel like I spend most of the next lap recovering from the flip turn rather than building on the momentum I should be getting from it. Also, obviously, decreased streamlining means I'm exerting more energy, as I have to swim farther (i.e., higher stroke count per lap).

Are there any drills or workouts I should be focusing on to improve in this area? For reference, when swimming I breathe every third stroke but I'm really bad about not breathing into or out of the turns (i.e., I breathe right before the turn and then have to take two breaths immediately out of the turn since I feel so desperate to breathe). Is this just a mental thing I need to overcome? If so, any advice on how I can get over it?

Thanks in advance for any help. Let me know if I can provide any further info to explain the issue.

ElaineK
July 18th, 2017, 12:48 PM
Have you tried switching to breathing every stroke for several strokes before the turn? Getting a more frequent exchange of air (assuming you breathe properly) may help. Make sure you are fully exhaling before you take a breath to prevent a build-up of CO2, especially before you turn. (I'm no expert, but this is just an idea to try.)

I know my lung power has weakened as I have gotten older. When I was in high school, I always breathed every fourth stroke. Now, if I did that, I would :whiteflag:! As a Master's swimmer, I have to breathe every stroke. To keep my body balanced, I breathe to the left going down the pool and to the right coming back.

AlanV212
July 18th, 2017, 02:11 PM
Wow, thanks for all the replies and suggestions! I really appreciate the input. I'll try to answer everyone's questions and respond to the feedback.

I'm 45yo, and I try to swim at least four times per week. I swim on my own (haven't found a masters program in my area) and I use Swamplan.com to get workouts; although having recently gotten back into swimming after taking about six months off I'm doing one workout of 1800 yards that is mostly 100 yard sets. Right now, my 100 time is 1:25 but I'd like to get that down to between 1:15 - 1:20 consistently. Also, my endurance isn't what it used to be so eventually I plan to add longer distances and get back to being able to do 500 yard sets (with a goal time of around 6:30). I could probably do 500 yards now but my time would probably be quite awful.

As for the input and suggestions on going in and out of my turns, I'm going to try breathing a few strokes into the wall and not holding my breath for the duration of my streamline, but rather slowly exhaling so to reduce my CO2 levels. I'm going to the pool today so I'll let y'all know how that goes.

Also, currently I breathe every third stroke but sometimes go 4-5 strokes between breaths (I'll focus on my form and kind of forget to breathe), which is why I was wondering if my issues with flip turns are more mental than anything else.

Lastly, I'll try to get a video of my turns and post them here. Thanks for the suggestion! And yes, if I can find a coach or someone to work with me 1:1, that would be great!

Cheers!

knelson
July 18th, 2017, 03:20 PM
Lastly, I'll try to get a video of my turns and post them here.

That would be great. I have a feeling most people with good turns don't have a problem "running out of air" like you're experiencing. I'd go so far as saying many swimmers find short course swimming easier than long course because the turns provide a rest break. Perhaps you are exerting too much effort on your turns or your turns are quite slow. A video would confirm this.

ForceDJ
July 18th, 2017, 03:39 PM
For reference, when swimming I breathe every third stroke but I'm really bad about not breathing into or out of the turns...

By that do you mean that you're bi-lateral breathing? If so...that's how I swim. And, depending on the effort/intensity/speed...I will sometimes breathe twice, on successive strokes just as I get to the wall. For example: As I turn my face back into the water from breathing on the RIGHT, I will exhale quickly while my face is in the water and then turn to take a breath on my LEFT on the very next stroke...which is my last breathe/stroke before going into my turn.

Dan

RonCummins
July 18th, 2017, 06:23 PM
I would add two things.

First, Your air will come with practice. Remember to focus on a good streamline starting now. Once you get your air right, the streamline is incredibly important. Work on it every single turn.

The closest thing to a drill I can think of would be to do a set of 25's with and turn and breakout at the end of each one. Focus on the push-off, streamline and breakout at the beginning. Do the rest of the 25 at about 80%, then do a turn with another good, strong push-off, streamline and breakout. You can then either go back to the wall, or finish the 50 very easily. Take plenty of rest, and repeat, at least 10 times.

Good turns are a great way to improve your swimming times with very little effort. You are right to start working on them early.

orca1946
July 18th, 2017, 11:23 PM
Unless you are working to be a sprinter, I would breathe every rotation of your arms into and out of turns to make it better for you to swim the next lap.