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ImaybeslowbutI'mold
August 9th, 2017, 12:21 AM
So, my 2017 Summer Nationals performance was OK, but left room for improvement and I'm thinking about planning to start training for 2018 Long Course Summer Nationals.

Oops, there is no USMS Summer Nationals in 2018, in deference to the UANA Pan American Masters Championships.

I cannot find any information about if we can participate, how one qualifies, if we have to join UANA, etc., etc.

I've checked the UANA site, the Orlando YMCA site, USMS site with no luck.

Does anyone have any information about the event and whether those of us who were expecting a USMS Summer Nationals can plan to swim at the UANA Championships?

jim clemmons
August 9th, 2017, 12:28 AM
Not yet but if you're USMS registered, don't fret. You'll be covered.

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sarahwelch
August 21st, 2017, 08:50 PM
For more information, see USMS website Events/National Championships with dates for the Pan Am's and a link with info to date. Here's a copy but links available from website...not my copy here...

2018 U.S. Masters Swimming Summer National Championship
The 2018 Summer Nationals will not be contested in favor of supporting the 2018 UANA Pan American Masters Championship in Orlando

2018 UANA Pan American Masters Championship
YMCA Aquatic Center, Orlando, Florida
July 28 - August 3, 2018
Long Course Meters

ImaybeslowbutI'mold
August 21st, 2017, 09:12 PM
Thank you, sarahwelch and jimclemmons. I appreciate your input and will try to be patient. The Long Course Nationals are a major event in my annual schedule and I will be anxiously awaiting further information from USMS.

I can understand that UANA is still getting organized and it is a long time until that meet, but I would have expected that if USMS decided not to hold a Summer Nationals in deference to UANA's otherwise nearly concurrent meet, they would also have prepared a statement or policy that explains how that decision affects their expectant USMS national long-course swimmers.

jim clemmons
August 21st, 2017, 09:42 PM
Thank you, sarahwelch and jimclemmons. I appreciate your input and will try to be patient. The Long Course Nationals are a major event in my annual schedule and I will be anxiously awaiting further information from USMS.

I can understand that UANA is still getting organized and it is a long time until that meet, but I would have expected that if USMS decided not to hold a Summer Nationals in deference to UANA's otherwise nearly concurrent meet, they would also have prepared a statement or policy that explains how that decision affects their expectant USMS national long-course swimmers.Well, I believe the statement you're referring to was generated by USMS as follows:

"The 2018 Summer Nationals will not be contested in favor of supporting the 2018 UANA Pan American Masters Championship in Orlando."

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ImaybeslowbutI'mold
August 22nd, 2017, 01:24 AM
I mean no disrespect, Jim. Clearly I've failed to articulate my questions well.
Do USMS swimmers need to join UANA in order to participate, or is there reciprocal membership recognition?
Is there a U.S. team, or do swimmers compete as individuals?
It may be that there is no USMS connection at all with the UANA meet and that we swimmers simply participate as individuals within the Pan American swimming community, according to their as-yet-undefined qualification and entry requirements.
Thank you for your patience.

jim clemmons
August 22nd, 2017, 06:53 AM
No worries. Your USMS membership will allow participation without having to join another organization. I believe that is due to USMS being a member of UANA. You'll participate as a member of your current team (think relays, if you belong to one) otherwise as an unattached USA swimmer (no relays).

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sunruh
August 22nd, 2017, 08:48 AM
there is however 1 small problem. the usms rules clearly state that a summer nationals must be held:

104.1

Meet Categories

USMS national championship meets shall be awarded in the following categories and

held during the following dates

104.1.2
Long Course (50) Meters—
Between August 1 and September 15. With the
approval of the Championship Committee, other dates may be considered

jim clemmons
August 22nd, 2017, 09:19 AM
there is however 1 small problem. the usms rules clearly state that a summer nationals must be held:

104.1

Meet Categories

USMS national championship meets shall be awarded in the following categories and

held during the following dates

104.1.2
Long Course (50) Meters—
Between August 1 and September 15. With the
approval of the Championship Committee, other dates may be considered

Hi Steve,

Which one small problem are you referring to?

jroddin
August 22nd, 2017, 12:49 PM
there is however 1 small problem. the usms rules clearly state that a summer nationals must be held:

104.1

Meet Categories

USMS national championship meets shall be awarded in the following categories and

held during the following dates

104.1.2
Long Course (50) Meters—
Between August 1 and September 15. With the
approval of the Championship Committee, other dates may be considered

Steve,

Article 506.3.10 gives the emergency power to suspend any swimming rule in Part One to the Board of Directors provided that the Board, with the advice and consent of the Rules Committee for part one rules, determines that immediate action is required to serve the interests of USMS.

The USMS Rules committee had a conference call on May 7 and voted to provide consent to suspend the rule and put the matter in the hands of the USMS BOD.

Please consult with a member of the Rules committee to verify everything was done properly...:bolt:

daniel.paulling
August 23rd, 2017, 10:10 AM
Steve,

Article 506.3.10 gives the emergency power to suspend any swimming rule in Part One to the Board of Directors provided that the Board, with the advice and consent of the Rules Committee for part one rules, determines that immediate action is required to serve the interests of USMS.

The USMS Rules committee had a conference call on May 7 and voted to provide consent to suspend the rule and put the matter in the hands of the USMS BOD.

Please consult with a member of the Rules committee to verify everything was done properly...:bolt:

There is also precedent for not having a Summer Nats: In 2006, there wasn't one because Worlds took place in San Francisco.

jroddin
August 23rd, 2017, 10:51 AM
Steve,

Article 506.3.10 gives the emergency power to suspend any swimming rule in Part One to the Board of Directors provided that the Board, with the advice and consent of the Rules Committee for part one rules, determines that immediate action is required to serve the interests of USMS.

The USMS Rules committee had a conference call on May 7 and voted to provide consent to suspend the rule and put the matter in the hands of the USMS BOD.

Please consult with a member of the Rules committee to verify everything was done properly...:bolt:

I posted that too quickly. And as a follow-up, the BOD agreed to suspend 2018 Summer Nationals at their summer board meeting last month in Tampa. So all is good with regard to proper procedures and protocol being followed.

sunruh
August 23rd, 2017, 12:33 PM
very good
i dont think many (any?) have seen the BOD minutes from last month to know that the 2018 summer nats were suspended.
to which:

July 29, 2017:


2017 Annual LMSC Meetings & Financials Southern LMSC 2017 Minutes (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/so-2017-7-29-1.pdf)


July 16, 2017:
Sports Medicine and Science Committee Conference Call Minutes (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/spm-2017-7-16-1.pdf)


July 10, 2017:
Coaches Committee Conference Call Minutes (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/coach-2017-7-10-1.pdf)


July 3, 2017:
Executive Committee Conference Call Minutes (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/ec-2017-7-3-1.pdf)



June 27, 2017:
Fitness Education Committee Conference Call Minutes (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/fit-2017-6-27-1.pdf)


June 25, 2017:
Long Distance Committee Conference Call Minutes (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/ld-2017-6-25-1.pdf)


June 19, 2017:
Board of Directors Conference Call Minutes (http://www.usms.org/admin/minutes/bod-2017-6-19-1.pdf)




this very site doesnt even list the BOD meeting minutes for anybody to know that the rule was suspended.
the june 19 meeting minutes talk about the next meeting being july 15.

jim clemmons
August 23rd, 2017, 12:46 PM
Yes, Steve, they're a bit delayed with posting.

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swoomer
August 24th, 2017, 11:43 PM
Though I usually attend most USMS National Championships and have attended a number of Pan Ams in really interesting places, I'm just not enthused about this concept. Orlando in summer....well, is Orlando in Summer. The extended meet schedule makes it difficult to attend for the whole meet. And while I've heard that the facility will be upgraded and there will be tents installed to extend the venue, I wonder if this is the right location for a combined event. I just don't think that an international event will maintain the USMS flavor for a national championship. Maybe it will work?

jroddin
August 28th, 2017, 10:00 AM
Though I usually attend most USMS National Championships and have attended a number of Pan Ams in really interesting places, I'm just not enthused about this concept. Orlando in summer....well, is Orlando in Summer. The extended meet schedule makes it difficult to attend for the whole meet. And while I've heard that the facility will be upgraded and there will be tents installed to extend the venue, I wonder if this is the right location for a combined event. I just don't think that an international event will maintain the USMS flavor for a national championship. Maybe it will work?

Please note this will not be a combined event. This is the UANA Pan Am meet. There will be no 2018 USMS Summer Nationals. The benefit to this particular Pan Am meet (as compared to others outside the US) is that USMS swimmers in the 18-24 age group will be permitted to compete in individual events. They will not be eligible for Pan Am awards and points, but their times will be eligible for USMS purposes (e.g. Top 10, Records, All American).

Jeff

guppy
August 28th, 2017, 11:58 AM
Though I usually attend most USMS National Championships and have attended a number of Pan Ams in really interesting places, I'm just not enthused about this concept. Orlando in summer....well, is Orlando in Summer. The extended meet schedule makes it difficult to attend for the whole meet. And while I've heard that the facility will be upgraded and there will be tents installed to extend the venue, I wonder if this is the right location for a combined event. I just don't think that an international event will maintain the USMS flavor for a national championship. Maybe it will work?

Could it be much worse than Houston (2007), Indianapolis (2009), or Auburn (2011) when it comes to heat and humidity?

ImaybeslowbutI'mold
September 1st, 2017, 12:18 AM
I'd like to go back to the original issue.
I'm pleased that USMS swimmers may not need to join UANA in order to compete, but remain hopeful for more information. The UANA site is not helpful.

Jim and others have provided some details for which I am grateful, but I'm disappointed that a detailed "How the cancellation of USMS 2018 Summer Nationals will affect those USMS swimmers who planned on it" statement has not disseminated by USMS to all swimmers. If I've missed such a statement, I apologize.

Among my questions:
Can it be confirmed that current USMS swimmers will not need to join UANA (I know Jim said not to worry and he believed it was because USMS is a member of UANA)?
Will competitions be decided on the basis of one swim, or might there be quarter finals, semi finals and finals?
Are there qualifying times?
Are the age groups and end-of-year basis the same for UANA as they are for USMS?
Are there any differences in rules at the UANA Pan Am Masters competition relative to USMS rules?

Others may have more questions.

John

orca1946
September 1st, 2017, 10:37 AM
Well - now that is cleared up. I think. We will await Q times to see if we can get in.
Do that allow any "free" non=Q times to enter?

Jillian Wilkins
September 1st, 2017, 01:10 PM
Let me try and answer some of your questions John:

Can it be confirmed that current USMS swimmers will not need to join UANA (I know Jim said not to worry and he believed it was because USMS is a member of UANA)? Jim is correct and USMS is a member of UANA. As long as USMS athlete have a current 2018 membership they will be allowed to participate in the event just as it was a National event.

Will competitions be decided on the basis of one swim, or might there be quarter finals, semi finals and finals?
All events will be timed finals

Are there qualifying times?
No, UANA committee has requested no Qualifying times for this event. But please be aware that we MAY have to limit entries on events or even the entire competition because of this in order to have a 10 hour competition day. We re encouraging athletes to register early as we are expecting a large number of swimmers for the pool event.

Are the age groups and end-of-year basis the same for UANA as they are for USMS?
yes, we are following FINA regulations and all age groups are based on their age on Dec, 31st of that year.

Are there any differences in rules at the UANA Pan Am Masters competition relative to USMS rules?
USMS adopts FINA rules for LCM events, so there should not be anything specific besides the 18-24 age groups. We are adding this age group for all individual events to allow all USMS members the opportunity to participate in the event. We are also looking at adding another age group (72+) for relays to allow younger members the opportunity to parcitipate. We are currently working out the details of this with our Sports Timing Management team to be able to separate the relays with athletes that are 18-24 for USMS records and top 10 only.

Please let me know if anyone has any questions regarding the event.

ImaybeslowbutI'mold
September 1st, 2017, 01:44 PM
Thank you very much, Jillian. That was very helpful.
Perhaps this or other such communication should be distributed to all USMS members?
Surely I'm not the only one who expected a 2018 long-course USMS meet and who now wonders how the decision to defer to the UANA meet affects their plans.

Annguins
September 4th, 2017, 07:41 AM
You will like the Pan Am championships. When held 4 years ago in the US,, it was extremely efficiently run! The pool in Orlando is an indoor pool. It is in a great area in Orlando; lots to do and see, many good restaurants.

MPohlmann
October 14th, 2017, 09:02 AM
I was looking at the UANA Pan American Championship website (http://www.2018panammasters.com) to get the schedule of events for swimming. If you click on Swimming at the top of the home page and then scroll down, you see the schedule of events. The dates listed on the USMS website and the dates listed on the UANA website do not include August 4th. On August 4th they have the 100 breast and 400 free. Open Water is August 5th. So the dates for swimming on our calendar should be July 28 - August 4 (not August 3). Date for Open Water August 5th with warmup August 4th. Event limit is 5 events, plus Open Water and relays.

Allen Stark
October 15th, 2017, 02:08 PM
So, the meet runs 1 day longer than advertised, the 800 free and the 400 free are a week apart, and there is no 1500 free. Is that right?

MPohlmann
October 15th, 2017, 06:07 PM
Yep, Allen, that's the way I read it.

Jillian Wilkins
October 18th, 2017, 10:28 AM
Good morning Mary,
yes, we have updated the events for the 2018 UANA Pan Ams to reflect the same event schedule as 2013 in Sarasota.

Here are the official dates of the event:
7/28 800 Free
7/29 400 IM, 50 Free
7/30 200 Back, 100 Free
7/31 100 Back, 50 Fly, 200 Free
8/1 Relay Day
8/2 200 Breast, 100 Fly, 50 back
8/3 200IM, 50 Breast, 200 Fly
8/4 100 Breast, 400 Free
8/5 Open water, 1.5k, 5k

The most up to date information about the event is on our website at:
2018PanAmMasters.com

Jillian

mpmartin
October 18th, 2017, 11:02 AM
Jillian,

It looks like in the first section of the swimming section, it still says August 3, 2018:

Meet Info:
Minimum Age Limit: 18 Years Old
Age Groups, Individual Events: 18-24, 25-29, 30-34, 35-39, 40-44, 45-49, 50-54, 55-59, 60-64, 65-69, 70-74, 75-79, 80-84, 85-89, 90-94 and five-year age increments as high as necessary.
Note: 18-24 age groups are not permitted to participate on relay teams: 100-119, 120-159, 160-199, 200-239, 240-279, 280-319, 320-359
Competition Dates: July 28 – August 3, 2018
Competition Venues:
The YMCA Aquatic Center
8422 International Drive
Orlando, Florida 32819 USA
Pool Characteristics:

Allen Stark
February 14th, 2018, 10:54 PM
The schedule decreases my desire to go. The swimming lasts 8 days. My wife's best events are the first 4 days, mine the last 3.
Thats a long time to be somewhere for a swim meet. Worlds isn't 8 days of swimming.

BobBruce
February 26th, 2018, 05:54 PM
Allen, hate to pop your bubble, but the Pan-Am schedule IS a typical World Championships schedule (seven days in the pool and one day of open water). I agree completely that it is a long time to be somewhere for a swim meet, so I do not plan to be there.

jimsauer
March 5th, 2018, 11:58 AM
Allen, hate to pop your bubble, but the Pan-Am schedule IS a typical World Championships schedule (seven days in the pool and one day of open water). I agree completely that it is a long time to be somewhere for a swim meet, so I do not plan to be there.


I usually try to attend 1 Nats a year, but SCY is late this year and conflicts with my summer league Swim team duties and LCM if you count travel days in and out would be 8 days to swim five events. Really have no desire to be at a meet for 8 days of which several days I would have no events to swim. Looking at Southern Pacific zones mid August or maybe skip LCM all together this year.

sunruh
March 6th, 2018, 11:23 AM
the worlds/panam format of 6 pool days and 1 openwater day with a relay only day in the middle
is as much about time and fatigue management as it is about swimming fast.
i have written this several times in the last 6 years

knelson
March 8th, 2018, 02:56 PM
The Worlds schedule with the 800 and 400 frees at opposite ends of the meet really needs to change.

MPohlmann
July 7th, 2018, 04:03 PM
I haven't seen any postings about the UANA Pan American in quite some time and the registration is closed now. I can't find anything about the competition time (time of day the events start) nor anything about warm-ups the day of competition and after competition is done for the day. Can anyone enlighten me?

MPohlmann
July 7th, 2018, 04:17 PM
I just found at this site https://www.clubassistant.com/club/meet_information.cfm?c=2164&smid=9303 the warm-up for each day of swimming competition is 8 am with events starting at 9 am.

Jay Eckert
July 9th, 2018, 03:40 PM
I haven't seen any postings about the UANA Pan American in quite some time and the registration is closed now. I can't find anything about the competition time (time of day the events start) nor anything about warm-ups the day of competition and after competition is done for the day. Can anyone enlighten me?

Hi Mary,

Here are the estimated times that are listed in the pysch sheets (http://www.2018panammasters.com/pysch-sheet.html). SwimPhone (https://www.swimphone.com/meets/event_order.cfm?smid=9303) is another good source of information for this event. :)



Day

Date

Warmup Start

Competition Start

Competition End



1

Sat, Jul 28

8:00am

9:00am

7:13pm



2

Sun, Jul 29

8:00am

9:00am

3:23pm



3

Mon, Jul 30

8:00am

9:00am

4:14pm



4

Tues, Jul 31

8:00am

9:00am

5:28pm



5

Wed, Aug 1

8:00am

9:00am

TBD (relay day)



6

Thurs, Aug 2

8:00am

9:00am

4:59pm



7

Fri, Aug 3

8:00am

9:00am

4:43pm



8

Sat, Aug 4

8:00am

9:00am

5:44pm

2FlyChris
July 29th, 2018, 02:15 AM
Why am I prompted for a password when accessing the PAN AM website and/or the results?:

wenix
August 5th, 2018, 03:38 PM
I have to check it out of curiosity. Because you have to admit that the topic is good :)