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Swimmy Jimmy
May 3rd, 2004, 05:51 PM
Although I was very impressed with Sabir the swimmer, I was not impressed with Sabir the person. What was up with him flexing his muscles before the 50 FLY? Is this the NFL/ NBA or is this master's swimming? I didn't appreciate the "hey everyone, look at me" attitude. Swim the race, shake hands with your competitors, and be thankful for the gift God has given you. Don't show up your competitor like a Pro Wrestler. I wonder how much muscle flexing Sabir will do before events at the olympic trials! I have much respect for him for his talent and swimming accomplishments. But after his display before the 50 Fly, I have little respect for him as the person.

Susan
May 3rd, 2004, 05:55 PM
That's an interesting observation. I thought it was just in the spirit of fun and kidding around.

swim53
May 3rd, 2004, 06:28 PM
Swimmy Jimmy- Maybe Sabir really was just trying to stay loose. Maybe he was nervous, too. After all, he only had about 1,000 people watching.
Besides, I don't think he had to flex to show us his muscles. They are just THERE.

Sam Perry
May 4th, 2004, 12:41 AM
Lighten up, the guy is a great swimmer and a very fine person from what I've read and heard from others. If he flexed, so be it. At least he doesn't spit in other peoples lanes as a sign of intimidation!

knelson
May 4th, 2004, 01:36 AM
It could definitely be seen as a very cocky manuever, but to me it came across more like he was hamming it up. I think he was just trying to get the crowd, and himself pumped up.

dorothyrd
May 4th, 2004, 08:04 AM
From what I saw, all of the Race Club were having a good time and were very patient with all the autographs, pictures and talking to strangers. I swam in the 200 IM in lane 6. They were behind lane 4 right after their 50 free. I swam in the 3rd heat in the South pool. They were still there long after I swam talking to people, signing things(shirts, programs), and getting their picture taken. I am betting that they would have liked to warm-down a little, sit down and relax, but they didn't.

Sabir had an audience, and like the great performer he is, he performed for the audience. If I looked like that, I would probably do the same thing. :)

swimr4life
May 4th, 2004, 09:01 AM
I thought his flexing and hamming it up were great. He was having fun and not taking himself too seriously! It got the crowd pumped up which helped him get pumped up! All of the swimmers on the Race Club were gracious to everyone. No cockiness was seen by any. They took time to talk, sign autographs and pose for countless pictures. They can only help promote our sport.

Tom Ellison
May 4th, 2004, 10:18 AM
Give the guy a break....If I had his muscles....I'd flex em....Heck, maybe Connie would notice me.....Would not...would to, not, to

swimmer
May 4th, 2004, 11:31 AM
How many of you have contributed to the race club now? Just curious how much success the business end of the race club had by coming to the meet.

Conniekat8
May 4th, 2004, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Give the guy a break....If I had his muscles....I'd flex em....Heck, maybe Connie would notice me.....Would not...would to, not, to

I already noticed you! But you're so dog gone far away!

Oh, and about Sabir, I got to meet him in the hospitality suite, very nice, friendly and easy going guy.

I think muscle flexing bit was cute. I mean people were about to bring the house down cheering, I think little bit of showing off in response to tthe crowd was very appropriate and in the spirit of the whole thing.

Perhaps we shouldn't jump on quick judgements of someone's personality based on one instance. That always bothers me, when people judge someone imediately before they know anyting about them.

Conniekat8
May 4th, 2004, 02:55 PM
Originally posted by swim53
Swimmy Jimmy- Maybe Sabir really was just trying to stay loose. Maybe he was nervous, too. After all, he only had about 1,000 people watching.
Besides, I don't think he had to flex to show us his muscles. They are just THERE.

He flexed to show of a tad, but it was very cute, and I think very appropriate to the atmosphere of the moment.
That one I did catch on tape, casue I was taping couple od Sabirs swims. I caught 50 free and his 50 fly on video.

tsimsak
May 5th, 2004, 12:34 AM
My coach caught Sabir on tape as well. My two year old son thinks Sabir's posing and hamming it up is absolutely hysterical. He begs me to play the scene over and over again (and I do, just to hear him laugh).

My son has caught on to the fact that I purposely rewind the video just a little further so that he's forced to watch his Mama swim her 50 fly too. He tolerates my need to be center-stage for 30 seconds, but only because I have the remote!

rafa
May 5th, 2004, 08:17 AM
I think he just wanted to have a laugh. It was fun. Did you see him and the others in the diving pool? They were sitting at the bottom of the pool playing around while swimmers were relaxing in the surface!!

swimmer
May 5th, 2004, 08:45 AM
Ask youself how you are going to feel when kids start to emulate this behavior. How are you going to feel about that? If you are fine with it then why not encourage all kids to adopt it as part of their pre-race ritual. Let's get the parents pumped up! I can just see the pre-swim posedown between a couple of big kids. That'll add lots of excitement to agegroup meets. And when the skinny 10 year olds pick it up, that'll be way cool.

Yes, I'm old school and I can hear geek telling me to lighten up but I'm not going to. I agree this is bad form.

swimr4life
May 5th, 2004, 09:52 AM
I think it would be GREAT if kids emulated this. I see way too many young swimmers taking their swimming too seriously. They are often so nervous that they can't stay loose and swim to their full potential. Most of them will never make the Olympic or National level. They are doing it for fun, camaraderie and fitness....much like Masters swimmers. When they get too serious, it stops being fun. As long as they aren't showing poor sportsmanship...spitting in others lanes or talking trash...I see no problem in it. I think it is great for people to show a little personality and emotion. It means they are excited and having a good time.

mattson
May 5th, 2004, 11:05 AM
I agree, Sabir was goofing off, not showing off. When the 50 fly came up, a bunch of us started cheering for Neil (the non-Race Club swimmer). :) Then the crowd started getting into it. It was at this point that Sabir did something to amuse the crowd. His actions were enough over the top, I didn't take it seriously for a second.

If Sabir had flexed at his competitors before the crowd cheering, you might have something. I think he was just responding to the atmosphere.

(I also remember the post-race warm-down. Sabir waited for another Race Club member to get closer in the diving well, then jumped in so the splash would hit his teammate by surprise. They were definitely playing around.)

swimmer
May 5th, 2004, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by swimr4life
I think it would be GREAT if kids emulated this. I see way too many young swimmers taking their swimming too seriously. They are often so nervous that they can't stay loose and swim to their full potential. Most of them will never make the Olympic or National level. They are doing it for fun, camaraderie and fitness....much like Masters swimmers. When they get too serious, it stops being fun. As long as they aren't showing poor sportsmanship...spitting in others lanes or talking trash...I see no problem in it. I think it is great for people to show a little personality and emotion. It means they are excited and having a good time.

I hope you get what you ask for then.

swimr4life
May 5th, 2004, 01:21 PM
Ouch...Thanks...I think.

swimmer
May 5th, 2004, 01:48 PM
You're welcome.

dorothyrd
May 5th, 2004, 08:48 PM
Originally posted by swimmer
Ask youself how you are going to feel when kids start to emulate this behavior. How are you going to feel about that? If you are fine with it then why not encourage all kids to adopt it as part of their pre-race ritual. Let's get the parents pumped up! I can just see the pre-swim posedown between a couple of big kids. That'll add lots of excitement to agegroup meets. And when the skinny 10 year olds pick it up, that'll be way cool.

Yes, I'm old school and I can hear geek telling me to lighten up but I'm not going to. I agree this is bad form.

The spirt in which he did it was fun and goofy. What is happening at age group meets is not. And that is the trash talking in the bull pen and waiting behind the blocks. I would much rather have the fun goofy muscle flexing in kids, then the meaness I sometimes see at age group meets. Of course where does that come from, hmmmm.

swimmer
May 5th, 2004, 09:56 PM
Originally posted by dorothyrd


The spirt in which he did it was fun and goofy. What is happening at age group meets is not. And that is the trash talking in the bull pen and waiting behind the blocks. I would much rather have the fun goofy muscle flexing in kids, then the meaness I sometimes see at age group meets. Of course where does that come from, hmmmm.

It all comes from the older role models. Maybe you'll get lucky and have trash talking kids flexing behind the blocks.

dorothyrd
May 5th, 2004, 10:22 PM
Cute, and they probably already are. Actually at the young age, it is more how they are taught by their parents, not until a little older is it by example by other swimmers. I have seen many youngsters a product of what their parents have made them, both good and bad.

dorothyrd
May 5th, 2004, 10:25 PM
Sabir probably does not do that in a group of his peers, but this was sort of a celebrity showing for those guys, so they hammed it up. I guess he was delivering for the spectators. It is unlikely you would see that at Nationals, Trials or any other meet. Just was in the spirit of the occasion. We were treating them like celebrities, so they acted like that.

swimr4life
May 6th, 2004, 08:45 AM
OK...I'll say it for Aquageek..."Lighten up!"
I don't think Sabir flexing and hamming it up is going to be a sign of the end of civilized swimming! It was fun. You had to be there to understand the moment. It is no big deal!!!...really!

;)

Tom Ellison
May 6th, 2004, 09:01 AM
Gosh, I was not there…but from reading all the posts describing the flexing event….It sure sounds like it was done in humor and the mood at the moment…with no ill will, intent, slams, showing off or anything related to negative actions. He was having fun and hammed it up for the sake of the crowd…He did not talk smack, belittle anyone, diss anyone…he was simply having a good time….
I always attempt to look for the good in people and things….perhaps we can do that here…

swimr4life
May 6th, 2004, 09:14 AM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
I always attempt to look for the good in people and things….perhaps we can do that here…

Thank-you Tom! There is so much wisdom in your statement. ;)

Tom Ellison
May 6th, 2004, 09:20 AM
Swimmer:
My oldest son (18 Sr. HS) is a swimmer …He is a great kid…honor student, decent, polite, VERY FAST and considerate. He would NEVER think of talking smack behind the block before a race or acting in a manner that was disrespectful towards other swimmers….Having said that, he has a great sense of humor…if… my son did what Sabir did with the flexing of his muscles….at that point in time…same situation….I would know it was done with good intent….
My point, we teach our kids to strive to be the best they can, to be good guys, have respect for others, kindness, decency, honesty…but we also teach them that life is way to short sometimes….and if can’t laugh and enjoy it…then we are going to live in a rather mundane world….Laughing at ourselves is not poking fun at others…hamming it up is not ridicule…or trash talking….My dollars bet Sabir was just having fun….

dorothyrd
May 6th, 2004, 10:06 AM
Amen Tom,

Swimmer do you have children?

Because I think if my son or daughter had seen this display, they would instantly understood the flavor it was delivered in and enjoyed it. And if they ever are in a situation where they were flexing or whatever, I am fairly certain it would be in the same context as they have been taught respect for their competitors and if anything, their competitors are some of their best friends in this world.

Besides, they have also learned what a humbling world swimming is, and the minute they think they are top dog, and the cat's meow, they will get beat! There is always someone there to humble ya.

swimmer
May 6th, 2004, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by swimr4life
OK...I'll say it for Aquageek..."Lighten up!"
I don't think Sabir flexing and hamming it up is going to be a sign of the end of civilized swimming! It was fun. You had to be there to understand the moment. It is no big deal!!!...really!

;)

What makes you think we weren't there?

swimr4life
May 6th, 2004, 10:31 AM
I'm sorry. I should not have assumed that. I guess I thought if you were there, you would understand that he was not being disrespectful to anyone. He was just having fun...actually poking fun at himself, no one else. You have stated your opinion and I respect it...I'm just stating mine. We don't agree....

swimmer
May 6th, 2004, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by dorothyrd
Amen Tom,

Swimmer do you have children?

Because I think if my son or daughter had seen this display, they would instantly understood the flavor it was delivered in and enjoyed it. And if they ever are in a situation where they were flexing or whatever, I am fairly certain it would be in the same context as they have been taught respect for their competitors and if anything, their competitors are some of their best friends in this world.

Besides, they have also learned what a humbling world swimming is, and the minute they think they are top dog, and the cat's meow, they will get beat! There is always someone there to humble ya.

I do have children and hope they don't go down this path. Mine aren't at an age that I think they could distinguish between the right and wrong time for something like this. I've known plenty of 18 year olds that wouldn't have known the correct moment either and I've known kids that would rather put the emnphasis on the posing above the emphasis on the swimming.

It's all in fun and no harm can come out of it. At least that's what I hear you saying. You're probably right and most likely it isn't going to impact anything one way or another. I guess we'll see.
Let's hope they don't start pulling sharpies out of their suits or grabbing cell phones hidden under the block to fire up the crowd. I'm not sure I see the difference though.

rafa
May 6th, 2004, 10:52 AM
I think we are making a big deal out of it. I agree we were treating them as celebrities. Everyone present knew what they are capable of and the bottom line is we are not professional swimmers (I don't pretend to offend anyone, I take swimming seriously too, although I think a bit of fun does not harm anybody.

dorothyrd
May 6th, 2004, 11:01 AM
I think we have to agree to disagree. What you saw was distasteful to you and you have a right to feel that way.

Just remember that as your children get older that you and them have to have a sense of humor in certain situations, it just makes life easier. And of course we all have to learn when the proper time for that sense of humor is.

Have a great day, don't mean to upset you in anyway. :)

Conniekat8
May 6th, 2004, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by swimmer
Ask youself how you are going to feel when kids start to emulate this behavior. How are you going to feel about that? If you are fine with it then why not encourage all kids to adopt it as part of their pre-race ritual. Let's get the parents pumped up! I can just see the pre-swim posedown between a couple of big kids. That'll add lots of excitement to agegroup meets. And when the skinny 10 year olds pick it up, that'll be way cool.

Yes, I'm old school and I can hear geek telling me to lighten up but I'm not going to. I agree this is bad form.

Oh geez....
Not every little thing grows to become an extreme case.
And if the parents have so little control over their kids that one little public display of emotion is going to dmage them for life... It's not gonna be Sabir's thing that's gonna do it. f theyr'e that hopelesly impressionable, they've aleady been 'damaged'

Don't get me started on parent's responsibilities to explain and educate kids to put things into perspective and proper context.

People need to teach kids how to deal with things in life, rather than trying to control what th world is going to do. Controling the world is a huge effort in futility and a nice setup for disappointment.

okay, I'm off the soapbox... for now.

gull
May 6th, 2004, 12:52 PM
First you have the designer steroid scandal, then Kobe Bryant's arrest, and now this. It's a slippery slope indeed.

swimr4life
May 6th, 2004, 12:58 PM
A sense of humor makes life fun. If this is the "worst" thing that happens in the world of swimming, we can all be proud of our sport! :cool:

swimmer
May 6th, 2004, 12:59 PM
Originally posted by gull80
First you have the designer steroid scandal, then Kobe Bryant's arrest, and now this. It's a slippery slope indeed.

It is indeed.

I'll do my best to live up to Connies parenting expectations. I gather she's an expert.

gull
May 6th, 2004, 01:02 PM
And did you say something about pulling a sharpie out of a suit (as in, "Is that a sharpie in your suit or are you just glad to see me?")?

swimr4life
May 6th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Like I said...a sense of humor makes life fun!:o

swimmer
May 6th, 2004, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by gull80
And did you say something about pulling a sharpie out of a suit (as in, "Is that a sharpie in your suit or are you just glad to see me?")?

That's funny. See, I have a sense of humor.

Tom Ellison
May 6th, 2004, 01:18 PM
I'd be careful hammering on Connie....she gives as good as she gets ....If you don't believe me...then go back and read the Ion posts....

swimmer
May 6th, 2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
I'd be careful hammering on Connie....she gives as good as she gets ....If you don't believe me...then go back and read the Ion posts....

I read them as they were happening. I see nothing to worry about.

Scansy
May 6th, 2004, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
I always attempt to look for the good in people and things….perhaps we can do that here…

Yeah, just like we have done in the past!:rolleyes:

Conniekat8
May 6th, 2004, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by swimmer


It is indeed.

I'll do my best to live up to Connies parenting expectations. I gather she's an expert.

I respectfully call your attention to the "Reminder of the forum ettiquette" post recently originated by the administrators of this board.

nyswim
May 6th, 2004, 04:26 PM
Does swimmer = Ion?

swimmer
May 6th, 2004, 04:29 PM
Originally posted by nyswim
Does swimmer = Ion?

No

Ion nolonger can participate.

gull
May 6th, 2004, 05:37 PM
Originally posted by swimmer
Ion no longer can participate.

Really? I wanted to thank him for recommending Four Champions, One Gold Medal. Great book.

nyswim
May 6th, 2004, 05:51 PM
I would like to hear his reviews of his Nationals swims. He could be a pain in the arse but he seemed to really enjoy the sport.

Paul Smith
May 6th, 2004, 10:08 PM
A few observations:

1) RE: Sabir flexing, I hope anyone critical fo Sabir playing around has the oppurtu nity sometime in their life to satnd in front of a 100o+ people screaming for you and keep your composure. In other words lighten up.

2) Tom, I'm with you about pissing off Connie as I have seen how fast and how "sharp" the girl can reply! By the way, I had a brief "thing" with Connie in the stairwell at Indy!!

3) Ion, I'm VERY dissapointed that he has been banned. I have always championed Ion's passion for this sport and his ability to get people fired up and writing with all his baiting. Ion is a unique person and although I don't agree with a lot of what he posts I do think he has a right to be here.

4) Swimmer, you've got a great sense of humor and sarcasm. I will however say i think your a wuss by not showing who you are! It's easy to spout off, except when your known! Be a man/woman and put a name to your sign.

mattson
May 6th, 2004, 11:10 PM
I don't know any of the details, but I am going to take an educated guess:
Ion was not banned for his ideas on swimming or his passion for the sport. It was for the contempt he expressed for the majority of USMS swimmers, and the personal attacks (that he sometimes resorted to) when his ideas were challenged. (Some of his responses were provoked, but most were not.)

I'm not saying I would banned him, but I am not disappointed with the outcome. Paul, if you are dissatisfied by that response, send me a PM. You may have missed the 1-day thread with my name in it.

Tom Ellison
May 7th, 2004, 08:37 AM
Paul:
Wow, in the stair well....you animal you....
Swimmer, I side with Paul ...post your name behind what you have to say...
As to Ion, I always tried to keep the guy top side up...I wish he was back...and don't like the ban if that is what happened...

Paul Smith
May 7th, 2004, 08:42 AM
Mark, I just sent you a PM on this.

I also want to be clear, my message about being "very" dissapointed in his being banned is in no way a defense of his actions. I never want to see anyone banned, I hope people are strong enough or smart enough to ignore those types of attacks. I can understand and accept that others don't agree, just sharing my opinion.

swimmer
May 7th, 2004, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by Paul Smith
Mark, I just sent you a PM on this.

I also want to be clear, my message about being "very" dissapointed in his being banned is in no way a defense of his actions. I never want to see anyone banned, I hope people are strong enough or smart enough to ignore those types of attacks. I can understand and accept that others don't agree, just sharing my opinion.


Originally posted by mattson
I don't know any of the details, but I am going to take an educated guess:
Ion was not banned for his ideas on swimming or his passion for the sport. It was for the contempt he expressed for the majority of USMS swimmers, and the personal attacks (that he sometimes resorted to) when his ideas were challenged. (Some of his responses were provoked, but most were not.)

I'm not saying I would banned him, but I am not disappointed with the outcome. Paul, if you are dissatisfied by that response, send me a PM. You may have missed the 1-day thread with my name in it.

We can debate the right/wrong of Ion being banned in another thread if anyone really wants to go there and if it would even be allowed. There were also threads started with his name in it and it took numerous people to argue his points and as far as I can tell he is the only one gone even though others certainly broke the Forum Etiquette. He may have been the worst but he wasn't the only.

Paul and Tom, the names people use on the site are completely irrelevant. We can't really know who anyone is. We don't really know you are Paul Smith or which Paul Smith. Based on signature, we don't know Conniekat, rafa, swimmy jimmy, susan, swim53, or nyswim and that's just in this thread. I'm the dissenting opinion here and I know that but that doesn't mean I should be held to a higher standard than others who've posted. If you ask for mine then ask for all.

I'm slightly sorry to have caused this much of a discussion. Only slightly though. Isn't it about time for the yearly discussion of pool termp and noodlers?

swimr4life
May 7th, 2004, 09:07 AM
Originally posted by swimmer

I'm slightly sorry to have caused this much of a discussion. Only slightly though. Isn't it about time for the yearly discussion of pool termp and noodlers?

You should not be sorry. You have every right to post your opinion. Thats why it's called a discussion forum. We don't all have to agree on every topic. I enjoy hearing different opinions on topics. Often we can learn from each other by hearing different points of view. Please don't hesitate to post your opinion!

Pool temp...now that is something we can all agree on!:D

swimmer
May 7th, 2004, 09:10 AM
Originally posted by swimr4life


You should not be sorry. You have every right to post your opinion. Thats why it's called a discussion forum. We don't all have to agree on every topic. I enjoy hearing different opinions on topics. Often we can learn from each other by hearing different points of view. Please don't hesitate to post your opinion!

Pool temp...now that is something we can all agree on!:D

You're right. I'm slightly sorry about some of the direction it went. Not that I wasn't in the majority. If we were all in the majority then life would be pretty boring.

rafa
May 7th, 2004, 09:15 AM
I agree.
Swimmer you should not be sorry at all. I will be happy to read your views on other topics!!

swimr4life
May 7th, 2004, 09:18 AM
Yes it would! Keep posting! We are all passionate about our wonderful sport. That is why its so much fun to be involved with this discussion forum.

mattson
May 7th, 2004, 09:20 AM
Swimmer, Paul isn't holding you to a higher standard, just the same one that he, ConnieKat, and others are using. I was going to send you a private message (nothing nasty :) but not really appropriate for this thread), and found out that button was missing.

Conniekat8
May 7th, 2004, 01:15 PM
Originally posted by Paul Smith

By the way, I had a brief "thing" with Connie in the stairwell at Indy!!


:eek: Uh-Oh, you promissed you wouldn't tell! :p
;)

Conniekat8
May 7th, 2004, 01:16 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Paul:
Wow, in the stair well....you animal you....


Well, I couldn't catch up to him in the pool, so I had corner him going up the stairs, when he was least expecting it.

jim clemmons
May 7th, 2004, 01:26 PM
Originally posted by "swimr4life":


Pool temp...now that is something we can all agree on!

Oh? I don't think so! :D Not even going to go there.

Scansy
May 7th, 2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Conniekat8


:eek: Uh-Oh, you promissed you wouldn't tell! :p
;)

Not only did he tell, he sent us all pictures!:eek:

Nah, not really.:(

Conniekat8
May 7th, 2004, 04:31 PM
Originally posted by Scansy


Not only did he tell, he sent us all pictures!:eek:


Pictures? Hmmm!
It was dark in that stairwell!

Scansy
May 7th, 2004, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by Conniekat8


Pictures? Hmmm!
It was dark in that stairwell!

Those "flashes" of light you kept seeing weren't lightning!

Tom Ellison
May 7th, 2004, 07:37 PM
Connie....good advice....NEVER, EVER get caught in a stairwell with a guy from Vail, Colorado......esp a Masters Swimmer....THE WILD BUNCH IS ALIVE AND WELL....

Conniekat8
May 7th, 2004, 08:53 PM
But, but... He seemed like such a nice guy... At first...
;)

Conniekat8
May 7th, 2004, 08:57 PM
Originally posted by Scansy

Those "flashes" of light you kept seeing weren't lightning!
Uh, oh... And I thought all superstars had that kind of a glow around them!
Well, it's a rough world out there for innocent little girls like me, all alone.
[makes her best pouty angel face]

gull
May 8th, 2004, 08:33 AM
Originally posted by Conniekat8
But, but... He seemed like such a nice guy... At first...
;)

There you have it, another cautionary tale about an Internet predator.

Paul Smith
May 8th, 2004, 09:45 AM
Tom, sorry but you can't lay the Vail thing on us anymore as we just relocated to Boulder! Going to be interesting having a real team to train with for the first time in years!

Gull80: Sorry, but I'm only a "pool predator"! As an internet predator I'm lost (can't spell, or type) and God knows I couldn't catch a snail on foot!

Scansy: The flashes we're actually from a late bloomer stalking us both attempting to find the secret of VO2Max!

Connie: On a serious note it was nice to meet and put a face to the fastest typer on the web!

mattson
May 8th, 2004, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by Paul Smith
Sorry, but I'm only a "pool predator"!

Sorry Paul, that makes you a "stairwell predator". You can upgrade to "pool", if you caught Connie in the diving well, like I did. ;) (Closest thing there, to a hot tub.)

Tom, I remember an age-group meet in Rome during the summer, where families pitch tents next to an outdoor pool. (This was 20 years ago. :p ) Is that the pool where you are training?

Tom Ellison
May 8th, 2004, 12:28 PM
Paul...
I went to CU and lived in Breckenridge, CO after I got out....You just traded one wild place for another wild place....I loved the Colorado Mtns...and the people that lived there....Boulder is one of my Top Ten places on earth...Go Bufs...

Tom Ellison
May 8th, 2004, 12:29 PM
Have not heard of that pool...I swim at the Y here....

Conniekat8
May 8th, 2004, 11:32 PM
Originally posted by gull80


There you have it, another cautionary tale about an Internet predator.

Is there internet in staiwells? Why... Who knew!

Conniekat8
May 8th, 2004, 11:35 PM
Originally posted by Paul Smith

Connie: On a serious note it was nice to meet and put a face to the fastest typer on the web!

Same here Paul.
Very good to meet one of the fastest swimmers out there.

[I'm sorry if the stairwell theme got little too far out of hand]

Conniekat8
May 8th, 2004, 11:37 PM
Originally posted by mattson
Originally posted by Paul Smith
Sorry, but I'm only a "pool predator"!

Sorry Paul, that makes you a "stairwell predator". You can upgrade to "pool", if you caught Connie in the diving well, like I did. ;) (Closest thing there, to a hot tub.)


Yes, and it was a very memorable meeting :)

libby
May 15th, 2004, 04:09 PM
I have been meaning to post my opinion on the Race club appearance at Nationals, but it appears someone beat me to it. After reading the many opinions I can say I don't think there will be any long lasting effects on kids everywhere. However, I felt like their swimming at USMS nationals took something away from masters swimming. Masters is supposed to be about people who love to swim AND have lives too. People that swim USMS have jobs and families. These are guys who may swim at the Olympics in a couple of months and that is ALL THEY DO..IMO they had no buisness swimming competitively at USMS Nat. They were there for one reason.....to make money$$$$. Of course they were so sweet and nice and hamming it up. USMS is full of swimming junkies who will eat it up all the while throwing money at them. It's one thing to have some fun at meet, but about doing it with a little class.

Susan
May 15th, 2004, 08:50 PM
They may have been there to make money, and they certainly were nice. So? I thought it was great that they recognized USMS as significant enough to warrant their attention. After all, we all love swimming, don't we? If you can make money on it, all the better. Judging from the response they received, I'd guess most swimmers were glad to have them there. Sorry you didn't see it that way.

Sam Perry
May 15th, 2004, 10:16 PM
So making money to continue what you want to do is a bad thing? Am I missing something here or is that logic totally ridiculous?

swimr4life
May 15th, 2004, 11:39 PM
I agree with you Sam.

As to the topic of the Race Club not belonging at USMS Nationals... Masters is open to everyone. Are we going to have "maximum" time requirements?....If you swim faster than this time, you can't compete? Go to the Race Club website and read their writeup on our Nationals. They say nothing but good things about Masters swimming. If they can bring more swimmers into USMS, their involvement can be nothing but a positive influence! I don't see how it can be seen as a bad thing for Masters!:confused:

libby
May 16th, 2004, 01:44 AM
What exactly is the difference between masters and senior nationals or Olympic Trials? I am not saying there should be a time limit, but there is a sort of unspoke consideration. Why don't you see Michael Phelps at USMS meets or Ian Crocker, Eric Vendt, Chad Carvin or Jenny Thompson? I understand why the Race club is trying to make money...it's definitely hard to come by in swimming. It just seems to me that there was something taken away from the masters national meet by them being there (to make money).

Paul Smith
May 16th, 2004, 08:58 AM
Some of te best swimmers in the world show up for a meet in one of the fastest pools in the world as a tune up for Olympic Trials that is open to them and you feel something was taken away for you?

I assume by your argument you also felt the same way (in regards to making money) about the meet hosts wanting to make money, the vendors selling t-shirts, the massage therapists, the concession workers, the parking lot attendents....................

ANY money coming into ANY area of swimming is a good thing, our sport needs pools, coaches, etc. etc. More power to those guys and hopefully they fill their camps up with USMS swimmers!

Brian Stack
May 16th, 2004, 06:48 PM
I agree with Paul, all USMS sanctioned meets are open to anyone with a valid USMS membership. The Race Club members certainly qualified. I did not attend the Indy meet, but our swimmers who attended were unanimously happy that the Race Club showed up and swam fast. This isn't the first time that elite level swimmers have attended USMS championships. Jon Olsen and Gary hall have attended USMS Nationals at Santa Clara in the past, Olsen in '99 and I can't remember Hall's dates maybe early 90's. I recall that every time GH stepped to the blocks there was a ripple of excitement through the crowd. I also remember the 200 Free race('99) with Jon Olsen, who was preparing for Olympic Trials, and John Keppler, a former Olympic Trials participant went head to head with Olsen swimming a 1:38.03 to Keppler's
1:40.54. Folk's were 10 deep around the pool, and everyone was screaming encouragement as the race proceeded. I still get goosebumps just picturing it. There was similar support for non elite swimmers in all the age groups. I can't total all the Nationals I've attended in nearly 14 years of coaching Masters Swimmers, but I've never heard anyone complain after watching a fast swim.
Go to http://www.theraceclub.net/column_usmsnationals.php
to read what the Race Club swimmers thought of the meet.
Just an after thought; Trina Radke a former and maybe future Olympian has been training with Ross Geary at Foothill Jr College, and has swum in a number of Pacific Masters Meets this past season. I know some very competitive swimmers in her age group who had no problems being knocked down a place in many events because of Trina's participation. Not one swimmer felt diminished by her presence.

JRidge
May 17th, 2004, 08:08 AM
Just as Masters does not exclude the slowest out there, neither does it exclude the fastest. The fact is, as fast as the members of the Race Club, swam others have swum faster or nearly as fast. In the 50 free Sabir Muhammad was the only one to break the national record; Aaron Ciarla, Gary Hall and Nadine Rolland did not. In the 100 free both Sabir Muhammad and Gary Hall broke the record, but Aaron Ciarla (took 4th) and Nadine Rolland did not. In the 50 fly Nadine Rolland and Sabir Muhammad each broke the record (Sabir by .01), Aaron Ciarla did not. The 100 fly no record, the 100 IM no record (and a DQ). 74 individual national records were broken at Nationals and I only count 5 of them from the Race Club.

Howard
May 17th, 2004, 08:48 AM
Originally posted by JRidge
Just as Masters does not exclude the slowest out there, neither does it exclude the fastest. The fact is, as fast as the members of the Race Club, swam others have swum faster or nearly as fast. In the 50 free Sabir Muhammad was the only one to break the national record; Aaron Ciarla, Gary Hall and Nadine Rolland did not. In the 100 free both Sabir Muhammad and Gary Hall broke the record, but Aaron Ciarla (took 4th) and Nadine Rolland did not. In the 50 fly Nadine Rolland and Sabir Muhammad each broke the record (Sabir by .01), Aaron Ciarla did not. The 100 fly no record, the 100 IM no record (and a DQ). 74 individual national records were broken at Nationals and I only count 5 of them from the Race Club.

Why are making such a big deal of the The Race Club then if they aren't even as fast as other masters swimmers?

pmbchill
June 2nd, 2004, 06:08 PM
I've been to many National meets in my swimming years and the Race Club is another exciting piece of the big picture. How can we NOT be thrilled, inspired, proud and impressed by people in our sport who have great swims. A big reason for going to Nationals for me is to watch great swims and to see the people who inspire me. My #1 hero is Edith Glusac from Michigan. She's 85 and she won 5 events including the 100 fly. Good luck Race Club members and same to you, Edith. Watching anyone who puts their heart into a race is an inspiration to me.

Swimmy Jimmy
July 15th, 2004, 07:00 PM
Why didn't Sabir flex his muscles and strike a pose at the trials? Sorry, but after his little demonstration at our Nationals in Indy, it was hard for me to root for him. On the other hand, congrats to Gary Hall. 3 Olympics in a row, and he was nothing but class at Nationals.

Sam Perry
July 16th, 2004, 09:11 AM
FYI, he did and he is a giant! Not to mention a great guy, sorry you have so much trouble with him.