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mark_varney47
May 5th, 2004, 02:16 AM
Does anybody know if it is illegal for a swimmer to grab the edge of the pool as they turn so as to allow them to push off more effectively from the wall and gain greater distance for their turn.I'm thinking that because the hand would be over the edge of the pool that it would be considered illegal.Of course the best thing would be for me to learn to do tumble turns.

Bob McAdams
May 5th, 2004, 06:31 AM
The only legal requirements for freestyle turns are:

1) Some part of your body must touch the wall.

2) You must surface within 15 meters after each turn.

I'm not clear, though, on why you think grabbing the edge of the pool will speed you up.


Bob

aquageek
May 5th, 2004, 08:26 AM
By placing hands on the wall in this odd manner you essentially defeat many of the advantages of the flip turn.

First, you must now come all the way to the way in order to grab it.

Second, you lose the momentum of your arms when you do the flip and push back off. Easier to show than say, sorry.

Third, I'm not entirely sure how you can flip and grab at the same time. Since your arms do not do any pushing, I'm not sure if there are any advantages of this. Maybe perfecting your flip turn without this wall grab is a better idea.

mattson
May 5th, 2004, 10:57 AM
If you are talking about an open turn (for fly or breaststroke), I'm slowly coming around to the idea that grabbing the wall will still slow you down. The tendency is to pull yourself up (to gasp air). This will slow your actual turn, and give you negligible momentum on your pushoff.

If you drive with your elbow and lean back (during your turn), this will give you enough momentum going into the wall to give you a good pushoff.

seltzer
May 5th, 2004, 03:17 PM
It is a legal but slow turn.

You should treat the wall as if it is a hot plate! Get off it as quickly as possible. Your legs/torso should start the rotation even before your hand touches the wall. Make sure that your hands spend very little time in contact with the wall or you'll get "burned."

The hot plate image is a good one to keep in mind during races. It also helps to think legs/torso first in terms of the basic
rotation for "open turns."

Edward The Head
May 5th, 2004, 03:21 PM
Originally posted by mark_varney47
Does anybody know if it is illegal for a swimmer to grab the edge of the pool as they turn so as to allow them to push off more effectively from the wall and gain greater distance for their turn.I'm thinking that because the hand would be over the edge of the pool that it would be considered illegal.Of course the best thing would be for me to learn to do tumble turns.

Yes you may turn just as you asked. It is not however any faster and while you may gain some speed/distance off the wall, you will be slower in the end.

As for the speed/distance, I do get a bit more distance off the wall when I first start as opposed to doing a flip turn.

mark_varney47
May 6th, 2004, 02:19 AM
I guess the reason for me not doing flip turns is due to the fact that when I go training there are always swimmers resting at the end of the lane in the pool,so basically they create an obstacle to anyone that wants to do a flip turn.The only way that you can avoid hitting them is if you do an "open turn" as described in my first post.

Bob McAdams
May 6th, 2004, 03:34 AM
Personally, I make a point of getting out of the road when I'm resting and a swimmer is coming toward the wall.

Does this happen at both ends of the lane? All you really need to perfect your flip turns is to be able to practice them some of the time. It's not essential that every turn you do in practice be a flip turn, any more than it's essential that you begin each set from the starting blocks in order to have a good start.

During a race, of course, you will always have a lane to yourself.

Conniekat8
May 6th, 2004, 12:01 PM
Originally posted by mark_varney47
Does anybody know if it is illegal for a swimmer to grab the edge of the pool as they turn so as to allow them to push off more effectively from the wall and gain greater distance for their turn.I'm thinking that because the hand would be over the edge of the pool that it would be considered illegal.Of course the best thing would be for me to learn to do tumble turns.

It's legal to grab the wall or the gutter, but it does slow you down. My coach likes to say..."Don't be a gutter grabber". If you must do open turns, it's better/faster to push off with your palms against thewall rather than to grab the gutter.
On occasion you'll find yourself in a pool with a bulkhead with no gutter, and you'll have noting to grab.

Yes, learn the flipturns. Give yourself time to learn them. The main thing is to not get discouraged while learning them. It will be awkward at the beginning, and you might aswallow some water, or get dizzy, but trust me, it gets better.

dorothyrd
May 6th, 2004, 12:03 PM
If you flipturn enough into the "standers" they will start to move out of your way. You can be polite and tell them you need to do the turns, but after that, I say it is fair game and come in and flip.

Conniekat8
May 6th, 2004, 12:10 PM
There's always a neat little extra splash that you can do while flipturning, that will result in the social club cluttering the end of the lane getting a face-full of water. Just work that last little dolphin kick that will help you flip.
That'll teach them to stay off to the side. :p

Then make an innocent face and say, sorry, I'm just learning hoe to do this. ;)

mark_varney47
May 7th, 2004, 02:34 AM
Thanks guys.So tonight it's flip turn night at the pool.I don't know about over there, but here in England we have an amazing number of people that when they go to the pool, they spend most of their time standing around in the water. I don't mind as long as they remember that the lanes are for swimmers not talkers.lol:D

dorothyrd
May 7th, 2004, 08:33 AM
Luckily my Y keeps the pool at a cooler temp. You stand around, you get cold. It keeps the chatters out!

londoner62
May 9th, 2004, 03:09 PM
Originally posted by Bob McAdams
It's not essential that every turn you do in practice be a flip turn,

I have to disagree; the more turns one does in practice, the better ones turn will be in competition. So, therefore, I would say it is imperative MV47 flips on every occasion. Also, if turns are your main priority for the evening in a public session, swim widths when the people are hanging out @ the end!

Paul