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larrydk
November 26th, 2017, 08:40 AM
New swimmer....trying to learn other strokes, I want to integrate some underwater dolphin kicking into my workout and was wondering if anyone has some sets or a workout that incorporates these...?

67King
November 26th, 2017, 11:11 AM
Yes, if you are a member and have access to the workouts forum, @swimdogs has UDK types of sets in every single one of his workouts.

larrydk
November 26th, 2017, 11:27 AM
I'll look - thanks

Windrath
November 26th, 2017, 03:09 PM
Larry –
There are several ways to incorporate UDK into your practices. These are very basic. Before you do any of these, you might want to read the article - [URL="https://coachrickswimming.com/2014/02/22/more-than-you-wanted-to-know-about-underwater-kicking"]. Many, many, many swimmers do NOT have a balanced dolphin kick which causes more drag than power. They would be better off simply streamlining and saving the energy. I suspect it is too early in your swimming career to know where you are in this regard. So, try incorporating these sets.

Vertical Kicking – an important part of UDK is being able to balance the kick, so the “upkick” and “downkick” are relatively the same. Vertical kicking can help you figure out this balance. You can do it with your arms at your side, hands out of the water, or arms over head (advanced). Start with 5-10 sec periods of kicking followed by resting as necessary. Repeat anywhere from 10-15 times.

UDK during a push-off: Do a set of 8 x 25. After your streamline push-off, stay underwater for 5-7 dolphin kick cycles (the combination of a downkick and an upkick). Surface before the 15 yard mark – there is NO benefit to staying under longer and is not safe. Since the upkick (kicking upward with the soles of your feet) is the usual weakness for UDK, focus on this part of the cycle. Your knees should not bend very much.

Kick sets: Sets of 8 x 25s or 6 x 50s would be good. Practice dolphin kicking on your stomach (with or without a board) to get the feel for the undulation of the body in both directions. Dolphin kicking starts in the torso (hips and shoulders). You should also do dolphin kicking on your back because it is easier, in my opinion, to feel the kick with the bottom of your feet.

Undulating push-offs: Do a set of 8 x 25 with plenty of rest. After you push-off, try to add a small amount of undulation while staying streamline – like watching a whale cruising underwater. There should be very little break on body position. The undulation comes from slight up and down movements generated by the arms and shoulders.

As you advance, incorporate the undulation and/or UDK into every push-off or start that you do. Typically, the longer the repeat, the fewer UDKs and vice-versa. They are a huge drag on your oxygen consumption. In my opinion, if you cannot commit to doing at least 3-4 UDK, don’t bother doing any and just streamline. The benefit is not worth it.

Good Luck.

SwimDogs
November 27th, 2017, 10:59 AM
Thanks @67King, for the reference to my online workouts!

As you mention, I incorporate UDK work into every practice. Tom Shields, arguably one of the best UDK swimmers, mentioned once that he did 400-yards of UDK work at EVERY PRACTICE, so I decided to follow suit. I have four sets that I typically work through:

#1: 8 x 50s on 1:15 with fins. The first 25 is UNDERWATER (odds on stomach / evens on back) and the return 25 is on the surface (on back).

#2: 16 x 25s on :45 with fins. Alternate stomach and back by 25.

#3: 16 x 25s on :45 NO FINS with 15M underwater (about 14 kicks for me) and the remaining 10M easy swim. Alternate stomach and back by 25.

#4: 16 x 25s on :45 NO FINS as four times through this sequence:
A: 2 underwater dolphin kicks, 8 fast strokes without breathing, then ez to the wall with breathing
B: 4 underwater dolphin kicks, 6 fast strokes without breathing, then ez to the wall with breathing
C: 6 underwater dolphin kicks, 4 fast strokes without breathing, then ez to the wall with breathing
D: 8 underwater dolphin kicks, 2 fast strokes without breathing, then ez to the wall with breathing

At the end of #4, I like to do a 200 free (straight through) with the same UDK sequence off of each wall. I eliminate the fast strokes...all the swimming is easy: I just try to make the kicks.

#1 and #2 are more about breath control, so my kicking is relaxed. On #3 and #4, my kicking is fast and for speed.

Hope that helps.

Mark

knelson
November 27th, 2017, 11:08 AM
UDK during a push-off: Do a set of 8 x 25. After your streamline push-off, stay underwater for 5-7 dolphin kick cycles (the combination of a downkick and an upkick). Surface before the 15 yard mark – there is NO benefit to staying under longer and is not safe.

I disagree with this. If you have a great underwater dolphin kick and you want to kick out close to 15 meters during races, you definitely need to be comfortable doing full 25s underwater during practice. If you can only make it 15 meters in practice on 25 repeats you aren't going to get anywhere close to 15 meters during an actual race. Whether it's safe or not depends on the individual. Certainly do not push it. When you need to breathe, come to the surface and breathe!

Mark Usher
November 28th, 2017, 02:52 PM
I do a continuous 200 kick set as part of my daily warm-up. Usually a combo of half free and half dolphin by 50's, mixing up the order and whether on my chest or back. Mostly just to get loose and get in rhythm.

During our workout we usually do at a couple of dedicated kick sets. Today we happened to do 12 x 25 dolphin on 0:40. First 4 were on the chest, next 4 on the back and then 4 on the side. I like side kicking because it helps to give you a better feel for the up kick.

I've also developed the routine of doing at least two dolphins on every pushoff from the wall. If you do it enough, it just becomes a habit after a while.

I know from trial and error in practice (trying different combinations) that my current "sweet spots" speed-wise are four dolphins off the start in freestyle and two off the turns and eight dolphins off the start for butterfly, and four off the turn. I try to stick to those numbers in practice when doing fast sets as a rehearsal for racing and to ingrain it in my muscle memory.

Just my $0.02

Windrath
November 29th, 2017, 08:17 AM
Knelson,

No disagreement with your comment. My post was specific to Larrydk who is a new swimmer learning the aspects of our sport.

However, as someone who has passed out underwater, a word of caution to all who are reading this. It is REALLY important that this kind of training be done with someone watching so that in the event UNDERWATER BLACKOUT occurs, the swimmer has someone who can bring them quickly to the surface.

Paul

knelson
November 29th, 2017, 04:54 PM
Yes, err on the side of caution for sure!

__steve__
November 29th, 2017, 05:01 PM
Would exhaling throughout the underwater kicking, so that lungs are almost empty as you surface be a little safer? Like the hypOpoxic topic he discussed a few yrs ago.

DolphinSwimming
November 29th, 2017, 05:39 PM
Hi,

I think to work out of the water is interesting, especially for the ankles and shoulder flexibility with the abdominal muscles reinforcement.

But this is very strange that the majority of the competitor swimmers don't know what are their best times in the 25m or 50m dolphin kick!

So what is your best times in dolphin kick ?

larrydk
November 29th, 2017, 07:27 PM
Yes...doing all...kind of cool because I'm still at the stage that I can feel differences just from practicing and getting used to movements my body has never made.

Rurrell85
December 1st, 2017, 05:28 PM
Definitely go on the side of caution and don't over do it.