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old dog
May 10th, 2004, 09:14 PM
/

Tom Ellison
May 11th, 2004, 08:03 AM
I'm lost again....

Scansy
May 11th, 2004, 08:09 AM
Tom, if you read between the lines it becomes much clearer!

Tom Ellison
May 11th, 2004, 09:42 AM
Does not...

Conniekat8
May 11th, 2004, 01:22 PM
Then slashesd through blank space... seems to me someone is swatting after flies... But I don't see the flies.

perhaps:

. .
. . / .
/ . . \
. . . .
/ . \

;)
okay, just never mind me here. :rolleyes:

Tom Ellison
May 11th, 2004, 01:24 PM
Anyone got a light in here....

Conniekat8
May 11th, 2004, 01:43 PM
Is it dark in here?
I can't see!

PS. I'm glad you asked for a light ... not for a match. ;)

Scansy
May 11th, 2004, 03:30 PM
OK, maybe I am dumb and clueless - but what exactly is this conversation about?

Tom Ellison
May 11th, 2004, 03:56 PM
I asked that question many posts ago....I am still lost...

Scansy
May 11th, 2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by Conniekat8
Then slashesd through blank space... seems to me someone is swatting after flies... But I don't see the flies.

perhaps:

. .
. . / .
/ . . \
. . . .
/ . \

;)
okay, just never mind me here. :rolleyes:

I read this post three times and got more confused each time! Then the fourth time it started to make sense. That's what scares me.:eek:

Conniekat8
May 11th, 2004, 05:03 PM
Be afraid, be very afraid!

How many posts can we make talking about nothing?
Hey, they made a hit sitcom about nothing.

There's value to nothing, just depends which way you look at it.

Scansy
May 11th, 2004, 05:15 PM
Nothing.

Scansy
May 11th, 2004, 05:16 PM
Originally posted by Conniekat8
Be afraid, be very afraid!

How many posts can we make talking about nothing?
Hey, they made a hit sitcom about nothing.

There's value to nothing, just depends which way you look at it.

Wasn't there already a very long post about nothing...??? Seems to me I got a message from the administrator for that one - as I'm sure many of you did too.:)

Tom Ellison
May 11th, 2004, 05:36 PM
Does NOTHING really exist?
Thomas Baldwin has constructed a detailed formal argument to show that there is a possible world where nothing exists, and thus he makes use of a different conception of worlds. It is based upon the idea that it is always possible to "subtract" a concrete object from a given possible world and thus to find another possible world, accessible to the first, which has exactly one less object in it. He begins with the premises that a world with a finite number of concrete objects is possible, that each of these objects might not exist, and that their nonexistence does not entail the existence of anything else. He then shows that there is an iterative procedure for "subtracting" objects from worlds, and the end result, given a finite number of objects, is that there is a possible world where all concrete objects have been subtracted. This is the empty world. The subtraction argument, as Baldwin calls it, probably represents the most natural way of thinking about the possibility that nothing exists.
As in this Thread....

Conniekat8
May 11th, 2004, 05:53 PM
Oh great!
Now you got me thinking about the Schroedinger's Cat, and that one always gives me a headache.
It's in the box, alive, no it isn't, it is, not, is...

kaelonj
May 11th, 2004, 06:23 PM
Connie whatever you do just don't peek into the box or you will disrupt the experiment.

Hey Tom - so if we continue to remove one concrete objetc til we get to the last one, once that last object is removed nothing exist, but since it is nothing how do we get there or for that matter how do we know we are there, since there is nothing there to mark that we are there. Or is it truly nothing since we would be there and we are somthing so it truly wouldn't be nothing.

Jeff

Tom Ellison
May 11th, 2004, 06:37 PM
The Cat is either alive or dead it cannot be both, if it has been poisoned then it is dead whether you look at it or not....

Tom Ellison
May 11th, 2004, 06:48 PM
Kaelonj
My position is very different from that of many, I contend that the situation where nothing exists is impossible, but for a different reason. Perhaps a combinatorial theory of possibility which limits possible worlds to those constructed from given elements (actual individuals, properties and relations). Clearly the empty world is not so constructed, because it has no structure at all. Hence there is no empty world, and the proposition that something exists is a necessary truth. Having said that....what really happened to the cat?

kaelonj
May 11th, 2004, 07:25 PM
To answer your question on the cat - I think it was shipped to Cucamonga (at last that's what I recall in a Tom and Jerry episode).

mattson
May 11th, 2004, 07:43 PM
Hey Tom, an empty world may be theoretically possible. But consider this, even empty space (in reality) has energy. There are constantly antiparticles and particles being formed and destroyed in the void. This is on such a minute time scale, on average you wouldn't notice (and you would call it empty space).

Schroedinger's cat is a thought experiment on the duality of something being a particle and a wave at the same time. To apply it literally is not so meaningful. A complex system (like a cat) requires statistical mechanics, a completely different set of rules than applying quantum mechanics to a single particle (err, wave).

Let this be your lesson, about trying to bring something into a discussion about nothing. That would violate conservation of energy.

Conniekat8
May 11th, 2004, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by kaelonj
Connie whatever you do just don't peek into the box or you will disrupt the experiment.
Jeff

I'm the 'outside the box' kind of a cat, I mean gal. ;)

Conniekat8
May 11th, 2004, 08:49 PM
Originally posted by mattson

Let this be your lesson, about trying to bring something into a discussion about nothing. That would violate conservation of energy.

Well, and ex-boyfriend of mine used to harp on me how intelectualizing about 'nothing' is such a pointles waste of time.
I often enjoy those discussion.
Now instead of a boyfriend, he is nothing...
as in "A woman without her man is nothing"

How's that for coming in full circle about nothing ;)

Today, I feel like a Scrodingers cat... If you can imagine that.

Conniekat8
May 11th, 2004, 08:50 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
what really happened to the cat?

It's here, but don't look in the box.

Leonard Jansen
May 12th, 2004, 07:35 AM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Does NOTHING really exist?


Or does NOTHING not exist? Or doesn't NOTHING not exist?

-LBJ

Mark in MD
May 12th, 2004, 07:53 AM
Perhaps William Shakespeare was clairvoyant when he wrote a play about all of this: Much Ado About Nothing. :D

SWinkleblech
May 12th, 2004, 08:17 AM
If there is a world with nothing then isn't that something. If something exists then it can not be nothing.:confused:

Tom Ellison
May 12th, 2004, 08:26 AM
I knew I shouldn't have started this....I just knew it....:D

Mark in MD
May 12th, 2004, 08:37 AM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
I knew I shouldn't have started this....I just knew it....:D Yup. You shouldn't have. :p

tjburk
May 12th, 2004, 09:27 AM
Tom, you talk about removing all of the concrete objects....what about all of the leather objects? Or rubber? :D

Kaelonj....don't make fun of Cucamonga!!! I used to live there!!! It's probably just as much of NOTHING today as it was then!:D

Tom Ellison
May 12th, 2004, 09:32 AM
Rubber...as in...the room I should be in? No, leave it there...it has purpose...

kaelonj
May 12th, 2004, 11:18 AM
Hey TJburk,

Nothing against Cucamonga - frankly it's closer to something than Mentone.

mattson
May 12th, 2004, 01:16 PM
Hey Tom, don't feel bad. We've had lots of other threads that were hijacked from their original purpose, and ended up being a dozen pages of nothing. Maybe this could be a huge thread that stayed on purpose. It started as talking about nothing, and stayed that way! :p

"Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople..."

Tom Ellison
May 12th, 2004, 01:26 PM
Gosh, I am ok with this thread....I am used to NOTHING....

Are not...am to....am not....hush up or your going to become nothing Ralph...

Scansy
May 12th, 2004, 04:08 PM
If we removed all of Tom's alter egos, would he be nothing?

If there was no swimming in our lives, would our lives be nothing?

danjobry3
May 12th, 2004, 04:29 PM
I can't believe I read all of these posts.

At least I'll have something to think about during that slow 1000 free I plan to swim tonight. Nothing, that is.

Tom Ellison
May 12th, 2004, 04:32 PM
Paul, Ralph said he wasn't my alter egos..he said he was me...No your not, yes I am...no your not...

Conniekat8
May 12th, 2004, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by tjburk
Tom, you talk about removing all of the concrete objects....what about all of the leather objects? Or rubber? :D


Just don't remove liquids, without them, what's a swimmer to do?

Conniekat8
May 12th, 2004, 07:16 PM
Originally posted by Tom Ellison
Rubber... No, leave it there...it has purpose...

Yeah, there are enough accidens even with rubber, as it is.

Conniekat8
May 12th, 2004, 07:18 PM
Originally posted by danjobry3
I can't believe I read all of these posts.

At least I'll have something to think about during that slow 1000 free I plan to swim tonight. Nothing, that is.

:rolleyes:
All of them distance swimmers in here, we're all really good at talkin' 'bout nuttin' aren't we?

swimr4life
May 12th, 2004, 10:34 PM
Without water.... we would be Masters of what domain?;)

Conniekat8
May 12th, 2004, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by swimr4life
Without water.... we would be Masters of what domain?;)

Nothing.com... or is it Nothing.net? Perhaps Nothing.org ?
Or just nothing.___

Conniekat8
May 12th, 2004, 11:02 PM
Gues you can tell I have NOTHING to do.
Or maybe I'm in the nothing kind of a mood tonight.
Speaking of nothing... you guys know it;s something when you ask, What's the matter, dear? And she says "Nothing"

Okay, shut up kitty, you're rambling now.

cinc3100
May 13th, 2004, 12:18 AM
Constantinople was founded about 331 AD by Constantine the Great. And it became Istanbul around 1922.

nyswim
May 13th, 2004, 07:23 AM
actually I think he was talking about the TMBG song

mattson
May 13th, 2004, 08:35 AM
nyswim, you are correct. With Tom debating with Ralph, I thought he might appreciate that song. (Next time, I'll include more lines of the song, to make it clearer. Or maybe I won't. Will. Won't)


Originally posted by danjobry3
At least I'll have something to think about during that slow 1000 free I plan to swim tonight. Nothing, that is.

That, grasshopper, is why you fail. To achieve a zen like meditation, you do not think about nothing... you do not think! :eek: (On a serious note, if you can shut off your random thinking for a while, you will be more aware of your body movements, as well as the sound and feel of the water. This may help in more efficient swimming.)

Tom Ellison
May 13th, 2004, 09:08 AM
Mark:
Ralph thinks I debate with him...in reality, (no pun intended) Ralph does what I tell him...No I don't, yes you do, no I don't, yes, no...

danjobry3
May 13th, 2004, 03:18 PM
Originally posted by mattson
... if you can shut off your random thinking for a while, you will be more aware of your body movements, as well as the sound and feel of the water ... )

... and that's a nice place to be. Nothing else compares. :)

swimr4life
May 13th, 2004, 04:08 PM
When you can zone the world out and think of nothing but how good the water feels, concentrate on your stroke and feel of the water and hear the rhythm of your swimming through the water....that's heaven on earth....the reason we are all addicted to this wonderful sport!!

DocWhoRocks
May 13th, 2004, 04:52 PM
Originally posted by swimr4life
the reason we are all addicted to this wonderful sport!!

I thought it was because we're all masochists :confused: :p

Tom Ellison
May 13th, 2004, 06:47 PM
Ralph said he wasn't a masochist....hush up Ralph....

laineybug
May 13th, 2004, 09:19 PM
Originally posted by swimr4life
When you can zone the world out and think of nothing but how good the water feels, concentrate on your stroke and feel of the water and hear the rhythm of your swimming through the water....that's heaven on earth....the reason we are all addicted to this wonderful sport!!

YES, it is heaven on earth!
I've always wondered if other swimmers could hear themselves swimming. I can tell when I'm doing it right or wrong just by changes in the sound. Unfortunately, its usually too loud (under and over the water) at my pool. But, that doesn't mean I don't love zoning out when I swim. I try to accomplish that, "I'm the only fish in the pool" feeling during every workout

dorothyrd
May 13th, 2004, 09:40 PM
Lainey, my neighbor just had twins and the little girls name is Elaina and they are calling her Lainey. So silly, I immediately thought Laineybug! :D

laineybug
May 14th, 2004, 08:19 AM
Thats so sweet of you! Laineybug is the nickname my family gave me when I was a little girl. Family still calls me Laineybug or Elaine. Most everyone else calls me Lainey. But I answer to most anything.

Tell Lainey the other Lainey wishs her a happy healthy life.

tjburk
May 14th, 2004, 08:44 AM
Swimming along...the flow of the water as it passes your ears... the feel of the water slipping around your hands... WHAM! OOPS forgot to flip at the wall!:D Hate when I do that:D

Mark in MD
May 14th, 2004, 11:13 AM
Originally posted by tjburk
Swimming along...the flow of the water as it passes your ears... the feel of the water slipping around your hands... WHAM! OOPS forgot to flip at the wall! :D Hate when I do that :D That's what happens when I think about music and don't PAY ATTENTION to the advanciong wall.

Scansy
May 14th, 2004, 12:26 PM
Originally posted by tjburk
Swimming along...the flow of the water as it passes your ears... the feel of the water slipping around your hands... WHAM! OOPS forgot to flip at the wall!:D Hate when I do that:D

What a stupid place to put a wall . . . . at the end of a swimming pool!:p

swimr4life
May 14th, 2004, 12:37 PM
Don't worry Tracy! Long course season is starting!!!....less walls to run into!

Conniekat8
May 14th, 2004, 03:01 PM
Originally posted by Mark in MD
That's what happens when I think about music and don't PAY ATTENTION to the advanciong wall.

Walls Move!
I swear, they move on you ;)

Tom Ellison
May 14th, 2004, 03:07 PM
Not like Vail swimmers though.....:)

tjburk
May 14th, 2004, 10:04 PM
Shhhhhhhhh!!!! Quiet!!!! The walls have ears!!!!!!:D They'll hear us!!!

Scansy
May 14th, 2004, 10:27 PM
Walls may drive me to do open water swims!

Less walls - of course there are bridges, boats, piers, driftwood....

Conniekat8
May 17th, 2004, 01:42 PM
Could someone compare and contrast how to do legar flipturns off a piece of driftwood? That one always escapes me.

mattson
May 17th, 2004, 03:04 PM
Originally posted by Conniekat8
Could someone compare and contrast how to do legar flipturns off a piece of driftwood? That one always escapes me.

I didn't see "legar" in dictionary.com, but I did find

leger -
a. Lying or remaining in a place; hence, resident; as, leger ambassador

So obviously, since it is hard to get much of a push-off from a piece of driftwood, it is a "leger flipturn".

("Legal" ?? Oh, nevermind. :D )

Rob Copeland
May 17th, 2004, 03:44 PM
Connie,

As discussed in other threads, a legar flipturn in a pool are any turn where you actually touch the wall. The same is true for legar flipturns on driftwood.

In a pool, the wall must be parallel and vertical, and at a right angle to the water surface and shall be constructed of solid material with a nonslip surface that extends no less than .8 meter (2 feet, 7 inches) below the water surface. Driftwood may be slippery, constructed with semi-solid materials and have no permanent parallel, vertical or right angle orientations.

In addition, End Wall Targets in a pool must be flush, nonslip targets in the shape of a T or a cross and the same width as the lane bottom markers shall be provided in the center of each lane on each end wall of the course and shall extend at least 3 feet, 4 inches (1.0 meter) below the level of the water surface. Driftwood targets are typically non-flush (?) and are hardy ever in the shape of a cross, unless you are swimming in the Fiume Tevere, downstream of the Vatican.