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arrieros
January 31st, 2018, 08:15 PM
...swim at all for themself?

Obviously a question for those who have coaches.

Odd question maybe, but Iím genuinely curious.

MSK
January 31st, 2018, 09:02 PM
My local YMCA has three different coaches that coach Masters and two additional coaches who teach a once a year triathlon swim class. Of the five, all but one swim regularly. One of them actually doesn't coach much since he is swimming the workout with us. I don't know all the age group coaches since many of them are working at times that the pool is closed to adults. Two of them swim with masters though.

Windrath
January 31st, 2018, 09:30 PM
I swim every day - 4500-5500 yards. Except for when I coached college, I was swimming as much as the kids I was coaching (and much of the time faster as well).

None of my coaches were swimmers. Best coach I know was a wrestler. He could relate to the swimmers like no other coach I have known. He was an even better diving coach. So, being a swimmer does not necessarily mean the coach will know what they are doing. Many coaches simply coach the way they were coached. :(

PW

ssumargo
February 1st, 2018, 10:37 AM
My masters coach joins us in the water when it's not too crowded. But he skips a few sets, to make sure he is available when the fast lanes are done or to give individual comments.

gobears
February 1st, 2018, 10:42 AM
Our team has 5 coaches - 4 who swim regularly and 1 who didn't swim that much as a kid and doesn't swim now. He coaches for the USAS team and is one of the best coaches out there. He has really creative and outside the box thinking. I regularly swim his practices and incorporate his ideas into my workouts when I coach. I love swimming other coaches' practices to keep my own coaching fresh with different ideas.

arrieros
February 1st, 2018, 12:02 PM
Well, that's interesting... seems that the majority of coaches still seem to enjoy swimming themselves, and that being a good coach doesn't necessarily require having much of a swim background.

I've been considering it for a while. No competitive experience here, do not swim all that fast myself, and I was like, 'if this is what coaching is, then I can coach this class'. When I really thought about it though, yikes! For various reasons, most significantly that I like to swim for myself and there's nothing like turning a hobby into a job, and I don't want to work another job.

I'd rather volunteer, but I don't think volunteers are allowed at my facility because of insurance purposes. Anyways it's good to hear that coaching doesn't drain all the joy out of being in the water yourself.

ForceDJ
February 1st, 2018, 12:12 PM
The Masters coaches at my pool all swim for themselves. But seperately...not during the Masters' workout. On of them is the holder of several age-group world records.

I've always believed that the best coaches were 'average' athletes. But in fact...a good coach doesn't necessarily need to have played the game he/she is coaching. Roger Bannister's coach, Franz Stampfl, was not a runner. He threw the javelin, and was a skier. Bill Belichick played football only briefly in h.s. But, lacrosse was his favorite sport.

Dan

arrieros
February 1st, 2018, 04:34 PM
I swim every day - 4500-5500 (tel:4500-5500) yards. Except for when I coached college, I was swimming as much as the kids I was coaching (and much of the time faster as well).

None of my coaches were swimmers. Best coach I know was a wrestler. He could relate to the swimmers like no other coach I have known. He was an even better diving coach. So, being a swimmer does not necessarily mean the coach will know what they are doing. Many coaches simply coach the way they were coached. :(

PW

4400 yards everyday?? Wow what do you eat after a workout like that... anything over 2500 yards and my appetite is out of control. I actually gain weight when I swim that much.


oh I just realized this might be off topic for the post

Windrath
February 1st, 2018, 06:23 PM
Arrieros -

Yeah, off topic, so what...

Contrary to all the stuff you read about eating & drinking before and after practices, I don't follow any of that. The only time I used a water bottle was during my first 10K swim. After that, if I needed water, I just drink what I am swimming in. Learned that from a good open water swimmer in Minnesota, Roger Bosveld. Faster. Have never had a bottle in practice either. I am generally never thirsty after practice and don't drink anything before practice either. if I do, I have to pee too often.

As for food, nothing more than a small bowl of granola w/ milk - maybe 500 calories all told in energy content. I might have a cup of yogurt a couple of hours before I swim.

No one is gonna like me saying this, but most masters athletes are not burning anywhere near the calories they think they are. Most are probably burning 200-250 calories per hour max. To burn the kind of calories the olympians report, you have to be running your heart rate in the 165-180 range for the better part of 2 hours in each practice where they are covering 16-20,000 yards/day.

I know I will get push back from individuals who are pushing that hard - my comment is NOT about what you are doing. NOR am I slamming the rest of us who are swimming easier. I am just saying that swimming with your heart rate in the 100-120 range is not going to burn alot of calories.

For the heck of it, you might want to estimate how many calories you consume after a practice to see if it is balanced against how much you burned.

Let the outcry begin!

PW

ForceDJ
February 1st, 2018, 06:30 PM
...if I needed water, I just drink what I am swimming in.


Sometime I do too. But not on purpose.

How's that workout in salt water?

Dan

Windrath
February 2nd, 2018, 12:23 PM
Dan,

I have a trouble swimming long distances in salt water - my throat gets very raw. So, although I am not trying to sip the water, I obviously do ingest more than I should. So, to amend my post, drinking the water only applies to fresh water. :)

__steve__
February 4th, 2018, 04:29 PM
Dan,

I have a trouble swimming long distances in salt water - my throat gets very raw. So, although I am not trying to sip the water, I obviously do ingest more than I should. So, to amend my post, drinking the water only applies to fresh water. :)Sea water is not unlike gatorade, with phytoplankton boost in nutrients.

JPEnge
February 5th, 2018, 08:40 AM
Sea water is not unlike gatorade, with phytoplankton boost in nutrients.

It's got electrolytes... they're what plants crave.

knelson
February 5th, 2018, 11:57 AM
I am just saying that swimming with your heart rate in the 100-120 range is not going to burn alot of calories.

I'm guessing most swimmers training seriously are getting their heart rate well above that range!

arrieros
February 5th, 2018, 12:59 PM
How about drinking salt water from an indoor pool? Any benefit to drinking pool water?

knelson
February 5th, 2018, 06:32 PM
How about drinking salt water from an indoor pool? Any benefit to drinking pool water?

Go for it and report back to us on your results. :)

arrieros
February 5th, 2018, 07:40 PM
Go for it and report back to us on your results. :)

Hmmm, well I do it all the time, inadvertently. Small sips. I would say itís not terribly thirst-quenching.

Karl_S
February 5th, 2018, 08:57 PM
No one is gonna like me saying this, but most masters athletes are not burning anywhere near the calories they think they are. Most are probably burning 200-250 calories per hour max. To burn the kind of calories the olympians report, you have to be running your heart rate in the 165-180 range for the better part of 2 hours in each practice where they are covering 16-20,000 yards/day.

I've wondered about this quite a bit recently. The workout computer on the stationary bike at the gym reports that I burn ~320 calories in half-hour session. I wonder how accurate this is. (Multiple bikes produce similar results.) That would translate to well over 600 calories per hour, which is a lot if the chart on the wall that compares the calorie consumption rate of various activities can be believed. It "feel like" I work harder than that in most pool workouts, but a calorie consumption rate >600/hour doesn't sound believable. Of course I do take set breaks during a 80-90 minute swim workout so I'm not running at that rate 100% of the time, but in a 90 minute workout at least some days I would be running hot for 75-80 minutes. Of course it has been months since I have been able to do this on account of life getting in the way... grrrrrr.

aztimm
February 6th, 2018, 03:19 PM
I've wondered about this quite a bit recently. The workout computer on the stationary bike at the gym reports that I burn ~320 calories in half-hour session. I wonder how accurate this is. (Multiple bikes produce similar results.) That would translate to well over 600 calories per hour, which is a lot if the chart on the wall that compares the calorie consumption rate of various activities can be believed. It "feel like" I work harder than that in most pool workouts, but a calorie consumption rate >600/hour doesn't sound believable. Of course I do take set breaks during a 80-90 minute swim workout so I'm not running at that rate 100% of the time, but in a 90 minute workout at least some days I would be running hot for 75-80 minutes. Of course it has been months since I have been able to do this on account of life getting in the way... grrrrrr.

Since I've had my Apple Watch, I keep an eye on the estimated calories burned. I'm typically around 100 calories per 500-600 yards.

I took a look at my average heart rate from my last week of workouts. It is typically 130-140. Even allowing for an error rate, that's still well over 110. Plus that's the average, so some is less/some is more.
I mostly don't worry about heart rate when I swim after using the treadmill and/or lifting. My HR is already up high, so even an easy swim will record a HR of 150+.


As for drinking water that you swim in...I'd be cautious if swimming in a lake. There was one o/w swim at a lake in Arizona where many people got sick and the race organizers contacted everyone and advised them to see a doctor. Giardia seems to be an increasing problem with lake water.

Karl_S
February 6th, 2018, 08:02 PM
Since I've had my Apple Watch, I keep an eye on the estimated calories burned. I'm typically around 100 calories per 500-600 yards.
Wow, that would be close to 800 Cal/hour since. Do you believe that?


I took a look at my average heart rate from my last week of workouts. It is typically 130-140. Even allowing for an error rate, that's still well over 110. Plus that's the average, so some is less/some is more.
I mostly don't worry about heart rate when I swim after using the treadmill and/or lifting. My HR is already up high, so even an easy swim will record a HR of 150+.
Agreed. 110 is low. 130-140 doing aerobic stuff and 150+ to possibly 170+ doing lactate stuff.

aztimm
February 7th, 2018, 04:25 PM
Wow, that would be close to 800 Cal/hour since. Do you believe that?


Agreed. 110 is low. 130-140 doing aerobic stuff and 150+ to possibly 170+ doing lactate stuff.

I posted the overview of my swim workout screenshot in my blog post today:
http://forums.usms.org/entry.php?41706-Wednesday-02072018

But to answer your questions:
* for my normal workouts, I probably get in 3500 yards/hour. If the watch tells me 700 calories, I'd guess around 550 from just swimming. so I don't think the watch gives me a 100% accurate measurement. I subtract about 10%.
* most masters swimmers probably average a HR of 130 for normal workouts. of course recovery, drills, swim yoga, etc. would probably be lower. some more advanced swimmers probably get that up to 160+, while others may indeed by closer to 110. there's more to HR than just the workout though, there could be physical/medical conditions to take into account.

Jeff Gross
February 17th, 2018, 07:04 PM
Does your coach swim at all for themself?

I am a masters coach and have been for quite a few years now. Coaching is a lot like having a baby: your priorities change away from yourself to your masters group. I used to swim a lot, loved masters workouts, and competed frequently.

On becoming a coach, I do not swim the workout with the masters. That is not really coaching, it is just posting up a workout. Getting in the water and swimming the workout with the masters is mostly selfish, although it also gives swimmers a shared communal experience with the coach, which builds rapport.

As an on-deck coach, I can give encouragement and technique advice, keep swimmers on track with the workout, socialize with swimmers who are too wasted to finish a set, time and care about race efforts, meet and greet late arrivals and early departures, and explain confusing aspects of each set. Most swimmers like a coach who shows such interest. Others are more intense and prefer a zen inner focused and undisturbed workout, and that is ok, too.

I do not lap swim by myself that much, for all the reasons that you enjoy masters. I do not like swimming alone; I cannot push myself as fast or as long without pressure; I like being given a workout with shared expectations; I like being coached. It is also physically difficult to get in and swim my own workout after standing out in the weather, on concrete, for an hour and a half as a coach. Coaching is mentally exhausting and emotionally intense, and needs some recovery time. You as a swimmer come to a workout fresh and leave exhausted, and so do I as a coach.

I miss swimming masters workouts, but I also find on-deck coaching rewarding on many levels: social, technical, troubleshooting, and keeping track of multiple lanes and individual needs. I swim by myself now more for the fun refreshment of swimming, and less for glory speed. Swimming: loved it then, love it still, always have, always will.

arrieros
February 17th, 2018, 07:44 PM
Does your coach swim at all for themself?

I am a masters coach and have been for quite a few years now. Coaching is a lot like having a baby: your priorities change away from yourself to your masters group. I used to swim a lot, loved masters workouts, and competed frequently.

On becoming a coach, I do not swim the workout with the masters. That is not really coaching, it is just posting up a workout. Getting in the water and swimming the workout with the masters is mostly selfish, although it also gives swimmers a shared communal experience with the coach, which builds rapport.

As an on-deck coach, I can give encouragement and technique advice, keep swimmers on track with the workout, socialize with swimmers who are too wasted to finish a set, time and care about race efforts, meet and greet late arrivals and early departures, and explain confusing aspects of each set. Most swimmers like a coach who shows such interest. Others are more intense and prefer a zen inner focused and undisturbed workout, and that is ok, too.

I do not lap swim by myself that much, for all the reasons that you enjoy masters. I do not like swimming alone; I cannot push myself as fast or as long without pressure; I like being given a workout with shared expectations; I like being coached. It is also physically difficult to get in and swim my own workout after standing out in the weather, on concrete, for an hour and a half as a coach. Coaching is mentally exhausting and emotionally intense, and needs some recovery time. You as a swimmer come to a workout fresh and leave exhausted, and so do I as a coach.

I miss swimming masters workouts, but I also find on-deck coaching rewarding on many levels: social, technical, troubleshooting, and keeping track of multiple lanes and individual needs. I swim by myself now more for the fun refreshment of swimming, and less for glory speed. Swimming: loved it then, love it still, always have, always will.

You sound like a great coach.

flystorms
February 18th, 2018, 10:43 AM
You sound like a great coach

I was thinking the same thing! I spent about three months "coaching" when ours unexpectedly (and thankfully) quit until we got a new one on deck. It was an absolute joy to do and I learned so much more about technique by trying to help others. I love it, but was excited to get back in the water when our new coach started.

__steve__
February 18th, 2018, 12:52 PM
I belive my coach did not come from a background in swimming. However, every form correction suggested has resulted in improvement

Isnít it true water pressure lowers the heart rate significantly when compared to being on land?

arrieros
February 18th, 2018, 03:21 PM
You sound like a great coach

I was thinking the same thing! I spent about three months "coaching" when ours unexpectedly (and thankfully) quit until we got a new one on deck. It was an absolute joy to do and I learned so much more about technique by trying to help others. I love it, but was excited to get back in the water when our new coach started.

Iíd like to try my hand at it too, except that I have very little experience being coached, or even as a swimmer. However the quality of the adult swim class at my facility would probably be better if they recruited volunteers instead of the underpaid and over-scheduled college students who earn a whopping $20 a week after tax to run practices.

arrieros
February 18th, 2018, 03:29 PM
Isnít it true water pressure lowers the heart rate significantly when compared to being on land?

Iím not sure, but my heart rate is in the stratosphere when I swim especially during intervals.

Windrath
February 18th, 2018, 03:39 PM
Heart rates for swimmers are, indeed, generally lower, but not due to water pressure. It is due to the body being horizontal and the heart not having to work as hard/fast to move blood through the body. :)