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arrieros
March 9th, 2018, 03:53 PM
Hi there, any suggestions for improvement on my butterfly would be appreciated!

Here's a video of my butterfly from underwater;


vimeo.com/259482275

Over the top:


vimeo.com/259482131

And lastly a static video starting off with one arm drills, and full stroke beginning around 1:28:


vimeo.com/259364445


Thanks in advance for your time,

__steve__
March 10th, 2018, 12:04 PM
From what I can tell it looks quite good. But Iím not commenting due to stroke- others much more qualified than me for that. What I can recommend despite knowing the effort, time and guts it takes to produce a video of yourself alone for review, For a more vast collection of feedback may I suggest:
- editing or also splicing videos down to reviewable material
- shorten clips
- youtube uploads seem to work a little better on my devices and guess others too
- donít view from aft- water all turned up with bubbles
- pool water seems more clear for filming prior to treatment than after

Good luck, videos are a powerful tool to improve swimming and to go faster, keep it up

ElaineK
March 10th, 2018, 12:12 PM
Steve, can you recommend a good (and free) video editing software? Although I am proficient in editing still photos, I know NOTHING about editing video. Thanks! :)

arrieros
March 10th, 2018, 12:18 PM
yeah same here. There's a little crop function in Quicktime where I could shorten the video, but there must be something better.

AZkid
March 10th, 2018, 12:25 PM
Hi my name is Kaden, my 100 fly scy is a 51 mid. First off Iíd like to compliment you on your underwaters, theyíre honestly better than my own. Try working on keeping your hips up and work on the front 8Ē on your pull. It seems like your hips are dragging you down and youíre not getting as much power out of your catch. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

__steve__
March 10th, 2018, 03:48 PM
For most underwater videos I use the basic free gopro software that comes with it. I have 2 cameras, the GP LCD and the GP sessions 5, theyíre relatively cheap and rugged. Honestly though, the software and apps are temperamental and crash but does have many editing features and creates a good product. For the app on my phone I use the free gopro Quik. It also has a wireless feature but unfortunately looses connection UW. For keeping it sturdy UW I just zip tie it to something heavy.

I also use my Iphone in a waterproof case then use the phoneís standard Photos app to edit off uneeded stuff at beginning or end. If I need to clip a portion in the middle of I just make a copy and turn material into two separate clips. The slow motion has 200 or something frames per second making sprints, block starts and turns very expressive.

Youtube itself also has good editing features.

ElaineK
March 10th, 2018, 04:54 PM
Youtube itself also has good editing features.

Thanks, Steve. I never even thought of poking around YouTube's "Edit Video" feature. I'm stabilizing a breaststroke video I just posted and messing around with editing some old videos to get an idea of how the editing features work.

__steve__
March 11th, 2018, 12:14 PM
Just two things I did notice - body/rear dropping on a few cycles (rhythm?), and dropped elbows (don't adjust if causes stress): a comparison to Misty Hyman's fly below

11488

It looks like you hold good momentum, then one stroke is off and you drop off. But we need to have a more experienced member look, particularly the last two vids

arrieros
March 11th, 2018, 12:33 PM
Just two things I did notice - body/rear dropping on a few cycles (rhythm?), and dropped elbows (don't adjust if causes stress): a comparison to Misty Hyman's fly below

11488

It looks like you hold good momentum, then one stroke is off and you drop off. But we need to have a more experienced member look, particularly the last two vids

Thatís a really good observation, thanks!

Windrath
March 11th, 2018, 10:20 PM
Arrieros,

The most obvious aspect that I would suggest working on is the timing of when you lower your head after taking a breathe. Currently, you are lowering your head (looks like tucking your chin a bit) in advance of when your arms come around on the recovery. Lowering your head too soon will result in slightly less extension at the front of the stroke and cause your upper body to be lower in the water. This will translate into a higher likelihood of dropping your elbows during the first phase of the pull which leads to less power during the main power phase of the pull. This is most evident during the second length of your 50 when you start breathing 1 up-1 down.

So, given that explanation, I suggest two things:

a) Keep looking forward until your arms are "in front" of your shoulders during the recovery.
b) To initiate the pull, think about "pressing" your feet towards the surface (some might call it an upkick). Done properly, this will result in your shoulder/upper body lifting and makes it easier to pull with your elbows in a "high catch" position.

The third thing I would focus on involves your turn. Initiate the turn by drawing your knees into your chest instead of trying to get your upper body and hands off the wall faster. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it works.

Good Luck.

PW

arrieros
March 12th, 2018, 10:10 AM
Arrieros,

The most obvious aspect that I would suggest working on is the timing of when you lower your head after taking a breathe. Currently, you are lowering your head (looks like tucking your chin a bit) in advance of when your arms come around on the recovery. Lowering your head too soon will result in slightly less extension at the front of the stroke and cause your upper body to be lower in the water. This will translate into a higher likelihood of dropping your elbows during the first phase of the pull which leads to less power during the main power phase of the pull. This is most evident during the second length of your 50 when you start breathing 1 up-1 down.

So, given that explanation, I suggest two things:

a) Keep looking forward until your arms are "in front" of your shoulders during the recovery.
b) To initiate the pull, think about "pressing" your feet towards the surface (some might call it an upkick). Done properly, this will result in your shoulder/upper body lifting and makes it easier to pull with your elbows in a "high catch" position.

The third thing I would focus on involves your turn. Initiate the turn by drawing your knees into your chest instead of trying to get your upper body and hands off the wall faster. It may seem counter-intuitive, but it works.

Good Luck.

PW

Thanks! Yes now I realize that if I tuck my head early and too deep it shortens my forward velocity.

Can you go into further detail about your suggestion about the turn? Should I pull my knees in while my hands are still touching the wall?

ElaineK
March 12th, 2018, 04:35 PM
Arrieros,

The most obvious aspect that I would suggest working on is the timing of when you lower your head after taking a breathe. Currently, you are lowering your head (looks like tucking your chin a bit) in advance of when your arms come around on the recovery.
PW

Is it worth the trade-off, though, if it makes it easier to get your arms around faster on recovery? I was told by a coach to get my head back down sooner to help get my arms around for a faster recovery and less splash on entry. In my case, though, I am an older (56) swimmer that is trying to improve my 200 fly and 400 IM.

Windrath
March 12th, 2018, 09:15 PM
Ellaine K,

I would love to hear the explanation of how dropping your head sooner speeds your recovery and results in less splash. It makes no sense to me. Age is immaterial. For fly, I would rather see the head higher longer than shorter

Arrieros - for breaststroke and fly turns, the turn sequence is best if the following sequence is followed:

a) After touching the wall, the first motion is pulling your knees to your chest. Use your hands as leverage at this point. This movement starts the rotation process.
b) Wait until your feet are quite close to the wall before releasing your grasp.
c) Before pushing off, make sure you can be streamline off the wall.

You cannot push off until your feet get to the wall. The concept of getting your hands and upper body off the wall first actually increases the time it takes for your feet to get to the wall and reduce the amount of time you have to get a breath. If you doubt this, talk to a diving coach. They will tell you that the fastest way to spin is to initiate the back or reverse spin is by pulling the knees in instead of throwing their head back.

Of course, experiment to see what works best for you.

ElaineK
March 12th, 2018, 10:13 PM
Ellaine K,

I would love to hear the explanation of how dropping your head sooner speeds your recovery and results in less splash. It makes no sense to me. Age is immaterial. For fly, I would rather see the head higher longer than shorter


A coach who looked at my video said I was keeping my head up too high and for too long on the breath. He thought that for me with my past neck and shoulder injuries/thoracic outlet syndrome surgery (land-based; not from swimming), he thought if I lowered my head and neck earlier, it would physically be easier for me to get my arms around. Therefore, if it's easier and more comfortable, I will be able to get them around faster. I tried it, and for my particular physical issues, he was right. It wasn't long after that advice I was able to swim a 2,000 yard butterfly to qualify for the Butternuts: http://www.grinswim.org/~nasti/butternuts.html (http://www.grinswim.org/~nasti/butternuts.html) .

As for the splash, I'm still working on landing my hands softer once they get to where they need to be!

P.S. If you want a good laugh, this is a current clip of my horrid fly. :lmao: I'm a breaststroker who likes to swim 200 fly and 400 IM as my add-on events at meets. I would love to be able to swim fly as well as arrieros! Any suggestions, in addition to changing my breathing, would be most appreciated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I7bLClvtws&list=PLs5nk16uX1WhZ6rpd_e2VRE8lzIvNSA1B &index=46

arrieros
March 13th, 2018, 08:49 AM
Hi my name is Kaden, my 100 fly scy is a 51 mid. First off Iíd like to compliment you on your underwaters, theyíre honestly better than my own. Try working on keeping your hips up and work on the front 8Ē on your pull. It seems like your hips are dragging you down and youíre not getting as much power out of your catch. Good luck!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Thank you for your feedback, Kaden :)

arrieros
March 13th, 2018, 09:06 AM
A coach who looked at my video said I was keeping my head up too high and for too long on the breath. He thought that for me with my past neck and shoulder injuries/thoracic outlet syndrome surgery (land-based; not from swimming), he thought if I lowered my head and neck earlier, it would physically be easier for me to get my arms around. Therefore, if it's easier and more comfortable, I will be able to get them around faster. I tried it, and for my particular physical issues, he was right. It wasn't long after that advice I was able to swim a 2,000 yard butterfly to qualify for the Butternuts: http://www.grinswim.org/~nasti/butternuts.html (http://www.grinswim.org/~nasti/butternuts.html) .

As for the splash, I'm still working on landing my hands softer once they get to where they need to be!

P.S. If you want a good laugh, this is a current clip of my horrid fly. :lmao: I'm a breaststroker who likes to swim 200 fly and 400 IM as my add-on events at meets. I would love to be able to swim fly as well as arrieros! Any suggestions, in addition to changing my breathing, would be most appreciated!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I7bLClvtws&list=PLs5nk16uX1WhZ6rpd_e2VRE8lzIvNSA1B &index=46



I think itís actually harder to swim fly at a slower tempo and still be able to recover the arms... not to mention a distance of 200 (longest distance I ever did was a 100 and my feet and legs were completely numb after the first 50).

Someone at my pool said any woman over the age of 25 who could do fly was in pretty good shape. Where I swim, itís pretty unusual and rare to see adults of either gender swimming fly at all.

orca1946
March 13th, 2018, 01:42 PM
As far as dropping off speed - were you trying to look as good as possible with the arms instead of working on speed? If so, I see that as the reason.

ElaineK
March 13th, 2018, 02:42 PM
As far as dropping off speed - were you trying to look as good as possible with the arms instead of working on speed? If so, I see that as the reason.

Orca, who are you asking-- me or arrieros? If you are asking me, I'm not concerned with speed as much as I am concerned with doing the stroke correctly. I am still unable to sustain an increased tempo for much more than a 50; however, when I slow my stroke and glide, I can complete a 200 (and more).

ElaineK
March 13th, 2018, 02:46 PM
I think itís actually harder to swim fly at a slower tempo and still be able to recover the arms... not to mention a distance of 200 (longest distance I ever did was a 100 and my feet and legs were completely numb after the first 50).

Someone at my pool said any woman over the age of 25 who could do fly was in pretty good shape. Where I swim, itís pretty unusual and rare to see adults of either gender swimming fly at all.

As I mentioned above to Orca, for me, I am unable to swim a 200 fly at a faster tempo. I need that glide in between strokes!

arrieros
March 13th, 2018, 08:51 PM
As I mentioned above to Orca, for me, I am unable to swim a 200 fly at a faster tempo. I need that glide in between strokes!

I donít think I could do 200 fly at any tempo... just out of curiosity what is your time? I did the 100 in 1:26 and the last 25 was taking in mouthfuls of water trying to breathe.

ElaineK
March 13th, 2018, 10:21 PM
I donít think I could do 200 fly at any tempo... just out of curiosity what is your time? I did the 100 in 1:26 and the last 25 was taking in mouthfuls of water trying to breathe.

I haven't broken 4:00 on the 200 fly since 2014 before my hip surgery, I'm that slow. :blush: And, I'm slower than that now. My 200 fly time probably ranks me down around 75-80% in my age group compared to my breaststroke times at 40%. I will swim it this weekend at a meet (after I swim the 1000 free!), so I will get an accurate time then.