View Full Version : LMSC vs. State Records

May 30th, 2002, 04:01 PM
Looking for opinions here.
As you know, the USMS community is divided in to LMSCs, not states. It is my impression that not all LMSCs maintain swimming records, but when they do, it is done for the LMSC, not by state.
Does anyone maintain masters swimming records at the state level (when the state does not correspond to an LMSC? For example, Georgia is not only a state, but an LMSC.)

I have been maintaining "New Jersey" state records, but I have learned that the "New Jersey" LMSC only covers North Jersey, and that South Jersey is part of the "Delaware Valley" LMSC, which includes eastern PA, and DE.

If a swimmer from the Delaware Valley LMSC lives in NJ, should that be included in the "New Jersey" records? (particularly if the Delaware Valley LMSC does not maintain records).
Should eligibility be based on residence, regardless of LMSC affiliation?

And does anyone count YMCA Masters times, if the person is not registered as a USMS swimmer, but lives in the state?

May 30th, 2002, 05:11 PM
I can't answer the question related to "State" versus "LMSC" records but can address the Y Masters swims. Here in New England, an LMSC composed of several states, we do include performances at meets outside the LMSC as long as they are USMS sanctioned and/or recognized. Examples of such "foreign" meets include Zones, Y Nationals, certain USS Meets, World Master Championships. However, we do require that swimmers follow a notification process and provide our Top Ten recorder with the appropriate information.

A.G. Thompson
May 31st, 2002, 12:38 PM
You might check the USMS handbook, but I think every LMSC must keep records for consideration for USMS Top Tens. Our LMSC, Missouri Valley (MOVY), cover 2 states: all of Kansas and about half of Missouri. The current bylaws in MOVY allow any registered swimming that competes in a MOVY-sponsored meet to establish or break an LMSC record. MOVY registered swimmers that compete in any USMS or FINA sponsored events can also establish or break MOVY records, if they provide meet results that include the sanction number and the results.

Therefore, you might need to contact each LMSC to see how they maintain records, who can establish/break them, and what documentation is required.

Anthony Thompson, MOVY Fitness Chair

June 19th, 2002, 03:15 PM
As the 'offical' SCY/SCM records keeper for ADMS and was recently charged with updating the NYS Championship Meet Records, I can give you my experiance and knowledge of how these things work. There was some confusion about this recently, so I did some research on it, to clear things up.

If the records are for a GROUP (ie, LMSC, Zone, State?) then the records may only be broken by members who fall into that group. If the records are for a MEET (ie, NY State Championship Meet Records) then the records may be broken by anyone attending the meet regardless of their membership (providing their membership qualified them into the meet).

The question has been raised, How about NY State Records? You would assume this would mean records set by NYS residents. Questions arise, must you be living in NY? Do you have a NY license(or official residence) but living and swimming in CA? There is no simplified task, because there is no 'official' USMS (or other) membership, unless like Georgia, the state is an LMSC itself, but then, as membership rules apply, one doesn't have to live in the LMSC they belong to so the member may not be a Georga resident. So, unless you create a state GROUP that members can subscribe to, you're going to drive yourself crazy.

Joe Bubel

Barb Protzman
June 26th, 2002, 02:29 PM
The meaning of the records is up to the person maintaining them. The criteria should be published and consistently applied. I keep the Maryland LMSC records. As with NJ, not all of MD is in the MD LMSC. Our Maryland LMSC top ten/records are for any swim done by a swimmer registered in our LMSC at any sanctioned/recognized USMS meet.