Rules Butterfly with breaststroke kick

[breastroker]

Both R1 and R2 deal with the Butterfly stroke while using a breaststroke kick. It seems some officials are confused and we must make this more precise. Both limit the number of breaststroke kick to one only between arm pulls. I would vote for either, with some additional wording.

Since some officials are not clear. I would like to add that it is permissible to do one breaststroke kick and an unlimited number of dolphin kicks between each arm pull.

[Frosty]

Wayne, nice job this year being the pre-convention discussion leader!

I wish we could eliminate the breaststroke kick altogether in butterfly, but we can not do that...since FINA Rule MSW 3.10 says "A breaststroke kicking movement is permitted for butterfly."

Why don't we simply adopt the butterfly rule(s) as published in FINA rules without trying to add language that is/has been open to wide interpretation?

I understand the desire by many to limit breaststroke kicking to once-per-cycle in the butterfly stroke, but FINA doesn't have such a restriction. FINA allows multiple frog kicks just as it and USA-S allow multiple dolphin kicks.

[breastroker]

Dan,
I thought it was in my job description:D

I look at the threads and see 10 people view for every one that adds to the discussion. My wish is more would feel comfortable expressing themselves. Already some threads are a little heated, which is good as it gets out and vented before convention.

My personal opinion on breaststroke kick in butterfly is we should do away with our rules and go to dolphin only. Too many old breaststrokers ( Oh wait, that's me) want to be able to fall back to the trusty whip kick.

I also remember the first year the rule was changed for AAU, 1970. I was in the Navy, at Mare Island. For some reason there was no 100 breaststroke at the 12th Naval District Champs. So in the 200 breast, I was out in 1:12 and died like a dog, got 3rd.

The following day I swam a 200 meter fly, all dolphin and won! That was 34 years ago, it is time USMS gets with the rest of the world.

[pettijohn]

The rule changed around 1954 to 1956. You were given a grace period where either kick was legal, then only the dolphin was legal.

As an older swimmer who learned with the breaststroke (frog before the whip) kick, I would still like the option of using both in a long race. As the races get longer 200 fly, it is great to go back to the breaststroke kick.

[craiglll@yahoo.com]

In the how to cheat... I wrote that my father taught me to swim. He began swimming in 1919. He never could get the breast stoke. He pasted that on to his children. If I know the history right. When breast & butterfly were seperated into distinct strokes, there was a lot of concern about how the two strokes were to be done to distinguish them. How to define the kick has always been a problem. Possibly, the reason why the kicks aren't so well defined is because the rule has never been exact enough because of fear of confusion. Weren't these rules for the two strokes first strtreed in the late 1940's early 50's? Swimming has changed a great deal.

[TRYM_Swimmer]

I don't think we should have our rules any different than the FINA rules.

I am an old breaststroker who has used the whip in the past with fly (although I finally swam the front end of a 400 SCM IM last year with all dolphin!). I never tried to use more than one whip per stroke, because I was trying to maintain some sort of momentum. Don't think one using multiple kicks would have any sort of advantage.

[Anthony Thompson]

There are a number of exceptions in the FINA Masters Rules which modify the FINA Swimming rule (SW). A project is underway to create a comparison the complete set of FINA Rules: SW, MSW, MGR and GR; as well as open water rules.

See Masters Rule on FINA Site:
http://www.fina.org/generalrules.html

MSW 3.10 A breaststroke kicking movement
is permitted for butterfly.

Anthony Thompson, USMS Rules and International Committee member

[TRYM_Swimmer]

I meant our Masters rules should be the same as FINA Masters.