hand shape - finger width

[daniel bullock]

Apologies if this subject has been 'done' to death, I tried to search the previous forums as I am new here and found some useful information but quickly the topic moved to some heavy duty fluid mechanics discussions and equations.

I noticed at the Olympics that many swimmers are now swimming with fingers wider then I thought would be practical. Have any studies shown the optimum width before you start to lose feel or start to slip and are then not able to get a good catch/purchase on the water to pull against? As a collegiate swimmer in the 90s I seem to remember the figure of 5-10mm being mentioned.

Is a wider spread advisable for sprinters trying to over power the water? narrower for distance swimmers trying to obtain max distance per stroke? Would weaker swimmers be advised to learn with a narrower grip and then experiment?

In the prvious discussions increasing surface area seemed to be key but can too much be a bad thing? Watching clips of Ian Thorpe he appeared to be maybe 2cm apart on entry then closed significantly during the phase of the stroke as the hand swept under the body....

Thanks for any advice, after a long career racing I would now like to start coaching and I think some of my ideas might be a little dated....

[Aramis]

I think that this is something that each individual should take time to play with for themselves. I don't know that there is a set distance for each finger to be apart that would be the standard to set accross the board. I feel this way because each person may pick up power and distance in their stroke at a different portion of their stroke. Because of that each person would therefore need to customize their finger position and width to match their style to where they need to maximize surface area on their hand.

[daniel bullock]

Thanks, sound advice. I have been experimenting with this in training and its interesting playing with different finger widths at different speeds. I have found some good underwater shots of Ian Thorpe with fingers spread on entry but his opposite hand, which at that moment in time is close to his hips, has his fingers closed confirming what I thought I was seeing during the underwater filming at the Olympics.

I found I was able to use a wider width at higher speeds where more power was employed and still stay strong in the water. Swimming longer distance sets at mile pace I felt as if I was not travelling with each pull as far as I possibly could when I spread my fingers more then one centimetre. ie I felt like I was slipping the hand under the body without travelling forwards as much as usual.

At the slower speed I guess there is less disturbance in the water to make use of when trying to pull the body through the water.....

thoughts??

[geochuck]

University of Wisconsin?? ran tests in the 50s using mechanical hands with closed or open fingers, the results were the same.

George

[MommyCoach]

Quote: "University of Wisconsin?? ran tests in the 50s using mechanical hands with closed or open fingers, the results were the same. "

The results may have been the same, but maybe it was because it was just a mechanical hand, and not the whole arm. What your hand and fingers do affects your arm position, namely that of the alignment between wrist and elbow. At least that's what I've been taught from other coaches.

With fingers open wide, the palm will move through the water faster than if the fingers are closed or just closer together. The palm will move so fast that it's hard for those who don't have a lot of body awareness to realize that their whole arm needs to follow their hand.

Then again, I could be totally wrong in posting this reply, but it's the way I've been taught to swim and it's how I coach other people - think of your whole arm moving through the water as a lever. If you spread open your fingers, it would make it hard for most swimmers for their arm to follow in sync.

But back to the original post subject: in watching the underwater pull of Olympic swimmers, perhaps they have been able to spread their fingers apart without it affecting their overall stroke because they're world-class swimmers and have amazing awareness of their body's movement through the water. (and can therefore cope easier with the change)

[daniel bullock]

Hi SwimandPedal,

thanks for the response, I agree about the hand speed. We use a fingers spread hand position and a fists clenched hand postion as drills to demo this precisely.

Originally I mentioned:
'Watching clips of Ian Thorpe he appeared to be maybe 2cm apart on entry then closed significantly during the phase of the stroke as the hand swept under the body....'

Not sure if you have seen the clips,

you can check them at:
http://www.swimmingcyclingrunning.com/Videos/thorpeturn.mpeg
http://www.swimmingcyclingrunning.com/Videos/HackettBrilliant.mpeg

On closer inspection now with a better monitor it looks more like they are are entering the water before extension with fingers spread and then closing up before getting into 'catch.'

[geochuck]

I just checked the second video on a program that adds pixels, to me the fingers are slightly open.

[Loffe]

The only thing I ever practise is to relax in the hand - that gives between 10-15 mm. It has worked perfectly for all distances and strokes.

[islandsox]

A relaxed hand is key. A rule of thumb that I use (pardon the pun) is that no bubbles should be coming through the fingers. To accomlish this, not only are my fingers slightly apart during the catch portion, but I change my hand position also to accomplish this. Bubbles mean a poor catch of water. As I finish the catch/pull portion, my fingers are slightly more closed.

So I watch for bubbles and make changes accordingly. I know of people who think that keeping all the fingers tightly together and cupped is the way to go. That to me is disastrous because it means the hand/forearm is not relaxed and it is only a matter of time before a person feels the arm strain.

[craiglll@yahoo.com]

A relaxed hand is key. A rule of thumb that I use (pardon the pun) is that no bubbles should be coming through the fingers. To accomlish this, not only are my fingers slightly apart during the catch portion, but I change my hand position also to accomplish this. Bubbles mean a poor catch of water. As I finish the catch/pull portion, my fingers are slightly more closed.

So I watch for bubbles and make changes accordingly. I know of people who think that keeping all the fingers tightly together and cupped is the way to go. That to me is disastrous because it means the hand/forearm is not relaxed and it is only a matter of time before a person feels the arm strain.

I started looking at my bubbles and tose made by others. It is really interesting to see the really weird directions they og. I know a guy who makes his hand bubbles go forward & under him.

i have very small hands for my height. the fingers are webbed.