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hooked-on-swimming
November 2nd, 2004, 02:39 AM
Just started practicing breaststroke and already have a bunch of questions.
One - is your head supposed to be in one position only at all times, i.e. looking down or do you kinda raise it a bit when about to break the surface when finishing the pull-out and then lowering your chin again to look down when submerging again?I noticed after watching some videos that there is some slight movement of the head.Or am I wrong?
Two - how deep is it best to be when doing the underwater part(streamline part) of the breaststroke(not start or turns).
Three - what is the optimal stroke count for breaststroke for, say, 25-meter pool(I am 6'1'')
And finally - how is it best to train the breaststroke kick(sample drills would be appreciated)
Sorry if that is too many questions at once.
Thanks.

scyfreestyler
November 2nd, 2004, 11:00 AM
Your head should not move from your above water to below water transition. I am told that you should pretend that you have a neck brace on and constantly look down. As far as the kick goes, I would try 2 down one up. Two kicks under water and one pull up to get a breath. This is just a teaser from the 4 strokes made ewasy video from TImmersion. I would strongly suggest that you get this video if you plan on working on all four strokes. You will probably even pick up something useful for your freestyle. Anyhow, the 2 down one up will teach you to kick efficiently and to be slippery through the water. I don't know about your second question. Good Luck and buy that video!!

Bob McAdams
November 2nd, 2004, 03:53 PM
Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming
One - is your head supposed to be in one position only at all times, i.e. looking down or do you kinda raise it a bit when about to break the surface when finishing the pull-out and then lowering your chin again to look down when submerging again?I noticed after watching some videos that there is some slight movement of the head.Or am I wrong?

You generally want to minimize the movement of your head relative to your body, as 330man has stated, and to drive your head up and down by pulsing your body. In practice, of course, it's virtually impossible to totally eliminate all head movement.


Two - how deep is it best to be when doing the underwater part(streamline part) of the breaststroke(not start or turns).

The important thing is not to go so deep that you have to fight your way back to the surface.


Three - what is the optimal stroke count for breaststroke for, say, 25-meter pool(I am 6'1'')

This varies from person to person. Your height is not the sole indicator. Different people vary in how effective a breaststroke kick they can achieve.


And finally - how is it best to train the breaststroke kick(sample drills would be appreciated)

The "one up, two down" drill 33oman describes is good, provided that you think of it as underwater breaststroke kicking in which you surface every couple of strokes to breathe. If you think of it as a modified breaststroke in which you stroke once and kick twice, this may encourage you to rush your kick, which is a bad thing to do. Keep in mind that a good breaststroke kick takes longer than a good breaststroke arm stroke.

For some additional drills, see:

http://www.totalimmersion.net/2003%20articles/march/mcadams.html

hooked-on-swimming
November 2nd, 2004, 04:14 PM
Sorry for the ignorance, but how exactly is the two down - one up drill done, i.e. two full breaststroke movements underwater(two kicks and two hand pulls) and one full one over or two kicks with one pull underwater?
Thanks.

Bob McAdams
November 2nd, 2004, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming
Sorry for the ignorance, but how exactly is the two down - one up drill done, i.e. two full breaststroke movements underwater(two kicks and two hand pulls) and one full one over or two kicks with one pull underwater?

First, kick off from the wall in a streamline and do two underwater breaststroke kicks. Then allow your body to surface and do one breaststroke arm pull (breathing, obviously). Then do two more underwater breaststroke kicks. And so on.

The purpose of the drill is to let you practice underwater breaststroke kicking while still providing a way for you to breathe.

Allen Stark
November 4th, 2004, 12:23 PM
Another good drill is breaststroke kick on your back. This helps to keep from bending at the hips during the recovery. Also when you are working on full stroke,concentrate on really squeezing your arms against your head to streamline when you kick. Working on this helped me drop one stroke per 25 yd. with out slowing down.

mattson
November 5th, 2004, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by Allen Stark
Another good drill is breaststroke kick on your back. This helps to keep from bending at the hips during the recovery.

Maybe you can help me with something. Often my feet will break the surface of the water, if I don't bend at the hips (and really concentrate on getting my heals towards my backside). Suggestions?

geochuck
November 5th, 2004, 03:24 PM
Drop your knees lower.

George

jim clemmons
November 5th, 2004, 04:25 PM
Drop your knees lower.

Sorry, I don't think that's what you want to do. You'll just create more drag with that "correction".

I believe you want to keep those knees within the "envelope" of the profile/silhouette your body is creating while moving through the water, not increase the size of the profile/silhouette.

Are you trying to say to increase the angle from your hips on down towards your feet?

Maybe I'm just misunderstanding the format of the suggestion.

geochuck
November 5th, 2004, 04:44 PM
Originally posted by jim clemmons
Sorry, I don't think that's what you want to do. You'll just create more drag with that "correction". Well we could write all day but you drop the knees don't bend at the hips. If your body is level and you just bend at the knees your feet come out of the water. I am making a simple explanation. I believe we can say too much when we do explanations of every detail.

George

breastroker
November 5th, 2004, 04:49 PM
Look at www.breaststroke.info
:p

Scansy
November 5th, 2004, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by breastroker
Look at www.breaststroke.info
:p

I think I've heard that advice before......

Allen Stark
November 6th, 2004, 12:33 AM
Absolutely, go to Wayne's website,but in the interum,if you don't bend your neck when you breath you should have to slant your body up enough so that you can recover your feet under water without bending at the hips.(Actually,world class breaststrokers bend at the hips just before the propulsive phase to increase power,but they do it very fast and at the moment they are moving at the same speed as the column of water surrounding them,so the increase in resistance is minimal and more than offset by the incease in power.)

hooked-on-swimming
November 8th, 2004, 12:53 AM
Actually i have another question after reading an article about breathing one every 2 strokes in sprint breaststroke at Wayne's site -what is the exact rule on breaking the surfuce in breasstroke?Is your head supposed to come totally out of the water or not?Wouldn't breathing once every 2 strokes kinda make breaststroke underwater stroke of some sort?Or does that mean just breaking the surface slightly and not "getting out of the water up to your shoulders?"

Bob McAdams
November 28th, 2004, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by hooked-on-swimming
Actually i have another question after reading an article about breathing one every 2 strokes in sprint breaststroke at Wayne's site -what is the exact rule on breaking the surfuce in breasstroke?Is your head supposed to come totally out of the water or not?Wouldn't breathing once every 2 strokes kinda make breaststroke underwater stroke of some sort?Or does that mean just breaking the surface slightly and not "getting out of the water up to your shoulders?"

The exact rule is:

"Some part of the swimmer's head shall break the surface of the water at least once during each complete cycle of one arm stroke and one leg kick, in that order, except that after the start and each turn the swimmer may take one arm stroke competely back to the legs and one leg kick while wholly submerged. The head must break the surface of the water before the hands turn inward at the widest part of the second stroke."

breastroker
November 28th, 2004, 07:04 PM
All real breastrokers know you are faster underwater than on the surface.

That was always my complaint when many coaches hijacked the stroke for a dozen years by emphasizing the above water part of the wave stroke.

Finally some coaches learned and you get swimmers like Kitijima, Hansen and Amanda Beard, who now spend as much time in each stroke underwater as the other components of the stroke.

As to the rule, your head only needs to go high enough to break the waters surface, just the very top of the head coming out. The entire head does not have to come up. This allows more time in the streamlined underwater portion of the stroke.