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Seagurl51
December 12th, 2004, 10:39 PM
Not sure if this goes in this forum or not, but I could really use some help on this. I finally have got my freestyle times to be below 40 sec. consistenly for 50 yds (i know it's slow but it's the fastest I've ever been personally), and now I would like my backstroke times to come down. I feel like I've tried everything I know to make them faster and I'm feeling kind of stuck. I do some interval training but they still seem to be in the mid-40's for 50 yds. I think I roll enough (I show my shoulder on every stroke) and my kick is decent, but when I kick hard, I feel like I sink. I've tried everything that I can think of and all kinds of combinations of kicking and arm speed to get myself to go faster and no matter what I do, I still can't get my times to come down. So anyway, now that I'm done complaining (sorry)I was wondering if anyone had any tips to help me out? Thanx a bunch!!

~Kyra

knelson
December 13th, 2004, 01:34 PM
Make sure your head is looking straight up, or as close to that as you can get. I think the natural tendency is to drop your chin and this causes your legs to sink.

USMSarah
December 13th, 2004, 08:04 PM
i agree w/ the above post, keep your head back, it will help you float better.

keep your hips up! (push them upwards)

just keep working hard on your drills and work your butt off... you gotta manage a good mesh b/t quality and quantity.

work on your starts/turn/finishes... streamline and underwater kick are both so imporant.

if you look at a backstroker from the side (underwater), the pull is in the form of a wide W, pull that water!

keep your fingers together, you don't any water to slip through your fingers!

Alicat
December 13th, 2004, 08:25 PM
Here is a secret too...

Backstroke, like butterfly, has a tempo, rhythm. You can't just speed up one part of the stroke, kick, or turnover, it all must flow together. It cannot be rushed. This is where backstroke stops being technical and becomes and art form.

Beside the other input that is all true, power comes from finishing the stroke past the hips, the kick is a constant "figure 8" (of sorts) in three distinct quadrants, the right side as your right hand enters, the midline kick as you are rolling on the plane and then the left side as your left hand catches the water over your head. The kicking NEVER STOPS! Backstroke can be quite tiresome.

Backstroke is a weird stroke because you are moving forward (OK backward) on one plane of water and side to side simultaneously on the same plane!

Are you totally confused yet?

Alicat
December 13th, 2004, 08:30 PM
This weekís Speedo Tip of the Week comes from Judson Aungst, former assistant swimming and diving coach at Bucknell University. Aungst is now the swim-clinic leader of goswim.tv, and he offers a backstroke drill that helps improve turnover.

Aungstís Tip:
When I was a kid, I used to watch reruns of TV westerns. The good guys were always quick on the draw and could shoot the bad guy down from their hip. I realized at a young age that being quick on the draw is more than just having quick hands. It starts with the shoulder. All backstrokers can learn a thing or two from these gunslingers.

Why Do It:
Quick-draw backstroke teaches you to use your dry shoulder while swimming backstroke. By drawing the shoulder up, you can free your hand for a clean exit and quick turnover.

How To Do It:
1. This drill, in its basic form, is single-arm backstroke. You have one arm extended and the other arm at your side. The focus is on the arm that is at your side.

2. When your lead arm is extended and initiating the pull, shrug the shoulder of your trailing arm up toward your chin. Make sure you are rotated onto your side so that your shoulder can clear the surface.

3. As you shrug the shoulder of your trailing arm, your hand should pop out of the water. Let the hand come up out of the water, then relax the hand and let it fall back to your hip.

4. After taking three or four strokes with one arm, take four full strokes. While you are swimming whole-stroke backstroke, concentrate on shrugging your shoulders to clear you hands.

How To Do It Really Well (the Fine Points):
1. In order for this drill to work, you need to rotate your body so that your lead arm is deep in the water. If you are flat on your back, it is difficult to shrug your shoulder.

2. Make the shrug an aggressive motion. The more pronounced the shrug, the more acceleration you'll generate in the hand that comes out of the water. Make sure not to hit yourself in the face with your shoulder.

3. Try to have the thumb pop out first as your hand exits the water.

4. Start by swimming with one arm on the first length, and with the other arm on the second length. When you feel that you have the gist of the drill, mix in some whole-stroke swimming. For example, you could do some 50s, taking 3 strokes with one arm, 3 strokes whole-stroke, then 3 strokes with the other arm.


http://www.usaswimming.org/USASWeb/ViewMiscArticle.aspx?TabId=144&Alias=Rainbow&Lang=en&mid=196&ItemId=1443

valhallan
December 14th, 2004, 07:29 AM
If you have a moment, there's a good article posted on the web. In your internet search engine try typing in "Piranha Backstroke". The web site address is too long to type out. They have some really good pointers on technique similar to Ali's post.

Seagurl51
December 14th, 2004, 01:15 PM
Thanx for the replies. I looked at that Piranha Backstroke site it was very helpful, and I'm excited to try the drills that USA swimming had this week. I haven't been able to get to the pool recently (finals ick!!), but I have doing my stroke in front of the mirror and found something that feels like it might make me go faster. So are your hips supposed to move in more of a figure 8 rather than just back and forth? I usually just roll back and forth but when I was doing the figure 8 (on dry land mind you) it felt like if I were to do this in the water it would really help my shoulder shrug and pull and give me a lot more power. Is this true or close to something at least? Thanx!!

~Kyra

ande
May 12th, 2005, 04:15 PM
I don't know what your current time is but
let's say we're talking about your 50 time and you're currently swim a 50 back in 45

1) improve your start (1 second)
2) improve your underwater dolphin kick (3 seconds)
3) improve your backstroke (3 seconds)
arm cycle, feel for the water, body position and kick
4) improve your turn (1 second)
5) improve your touch (1/2 second)
6) improve your splitting (1 second)
7) get stronger (3 seconds)
8) get super psyched (1 second)
1 + 3 + 3 + 1 + 0.5 + 1 + 3 +1 = 13.5
correcting some of these might even help you improve by more

Ande


Originally posted by Seagurl51
Not sure if this goes in this forum or not, but I could really use some help on this. I finally have got my freestyle times to be below 40 sec. consistenly for 50 yds (i know it's slow but it's the fastest I've ever been personally), and now I would like my backstroke times to come down. I feel like I've tried everything I know to make them faster and I'm feeling kind of stuck. I do some interval training but they still seem to be in the mid-40's for 50 yds. I think I roll enough (I show my shoulder on every stroke) and my kick is decent, but when I kick hard, I feel like I sink. I've tried everything that I can think of and all kinds of combinations of kicking and arm speed to get myself to go faster and no matter what I do, I still can't get my times to come down. So anyway, now that I'm done complaining (sorry)I was wondering if anyone had any tips to help me out? Thanx a bunch!!

~Kyra

jswim
May 12th, 2005, 04:34 PM
I recently started trying the backstroke starts, which are fine for me initially, however, I have a lot of trouble with the underwater kick, and learning to breathe out from my nose sloooooowly..

I breathe out quickly then absoultely have to get to the surface for a breath, as water starts going up my nose..

Are there any tricks to training for a longer underwater dolphin kick on your back?

thanks!
J.

SwiminONandON
May 12th, 2005, 04:38 PM
As with most things in swimming ... practice, practice, and more practice ... Technique is huge obviously, make sure you are starting your kick from the gut and using your hips. Work it on every backstroke set. Do underwater 25s with no breathe.

ande
May 12th, 2005, 04:39 PM
I have a way to flex my nose so air can't get in or out.
I think you should hold your air when dolphin kicking under water. some swimmers can't hold air and bleed it out till they get to the surface.

i think we swim faster with air in our lungs because we float better.

I've heard of swimmers pumping air into their intestines before a big race. eww

ande


Originally posted by jswim
I recently started trying the backstroke starts, which are fine for me initially, however, I have a lot of trouble with the underwater kick, and learning to breathe out from my nose sloooooowly..

I breathe out quickly then absoultely have to get to the surface for a breath, as water starts going up my nose..

Are there any tricks to training for a longer underwater dolphin kick on your back?

thanks!
J.

nkace
May 12th, 2005, 04:44 PM
It's good to know I am not the only one getting water up the nose when doing backstroke, yuck. How does one prevent this?

SwiminONandON
May 12th, 2005, 04:46 PM
I don't understand how people get water up their noses in backstroke ... very perplexing to me, however ... breathe out of your nose ...

ande
May 12th, 2005, 04:49 PM
i scrunch my nose
one swimmer i know presses her top lip over her nose holes
(no clue how she does that)
some people wear nose plugs
some swimmer blow air till they surface

ande


Originally posted by nkace
It's good to know I am not the only one getting water up the nose when doing backstroke, yuck. How does one prevent this?

jswim
May 12th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Originally posted by SwiminONandON
As with most things in swimming ... practice, practice, and more practice ... Technique is huge obviously, make sure you are starting your kick from the gut and using your hips. Work it on every backstroke set. Do underwater 25s with no breathe.

yeah I'm going to have to do just that I know.. I'm assuming those underwater 25's would be on my stomach,, not my back, correct? there's NOOOOO way I could do that on my back!..
lol.. boy that would be an ugly thing to witness!

I also have the question of how the heck do you keep water from getting up your nose while holding your breath??... do you have special nostril exercises, or are you all just genetically advanced?? ;)

jswim
May 12th, 2005, 04:51 PM
Also,, my coach told me (many times, because I used to hold my breath as a habit), not to hold my breath on push offs, but let a little out as I'm streamlining, or I will go into oxygen debt faster and my energy level will suffer..

is this true, or perhaps just training to get used to that oxygen debt is what will overcome that?
J.

SwiminONandON
May 12th, 2005, 04:52 PM
The flow of the water isn't going up your nose, it's going against your body so it'd be going the opposite direction. I really don't get it, I am fairly gifted genetically though ;)

No, those 25 kicks would be on your back, I can pop out at 15m on underwater dolphin kick on my back no prob (well off of the first wall, it's all down hill after that) Build up to it! Make sure you are in a super tight streamline, have good technique on your kick. Go as far as you can, pop up for air, go back down ...

SwiminONandON
May 12th, 2005, 04:56 PM
Hmmm ... see these are all things I just do, I donít really think about ... I think I start blowing out water when I am in my streamline unless itís a sprint and then I hold my breathe a little longer ... it really depends on the race. Oxygen debt for a 50 free isnít a problem, but on a 1650 you want to be getting in as much oxygen as you can. Make sure you really empty your lungs, too. I actually usually intake just a bit of water before I turn, and spit the water out first (itís a weird habit that I actually like).

jswim
May 12th, 2005, 05:10 PM
ohhhhh, 25 KICKS.. I thought you meant to start swimming 25 yards underwater on my back.. whew!

Thanks for the tips! I'll give em' a go at practice tonight!

also after thinking about it a bit I'm wondering if because I breathe out so fully on my back if the water rushing into my nose is perhaps due to an involuntary reaction to start sucking air back in?... Maybe if I don't breathe out all the way I won't get the water up my nose...

Though it may just be the genetic advantages that allow you all to do this correctly! lol.. ;)

SwiminONandON
May 12th, 2005, 05:11 PM
No, the kick is on your back, dolphin, underwater ...

EyeoreSAM
May 12th, 2005, 05:15 PM
I do 25's underwater fly kick on my back, not on my stomach.

As far as getting water up your nose I also can scrunch my top lip to cover my nose.

SwiminONandON
May 12th, 2005, 05:16 PM
Like a kissy/fish face kind of a thing? So you are really puffing out your lips?

jswim
May 12th, 2005, 05:26 PM
Originally posted by EyeoreSAM
I do 25's underwater fly kick on my back, not on my stomach.

As far as getting water up your nose I also can scrunch my top lip to cover my nose.

ahhhh.. thus the genetic enhancements!.. damn!.. 25 m underwater fly kick on back..impressive

ok then.. I have some goals now at least!

Heather I figured you meant 25 dolphin kicks underwater on back, but I initially thought you meant 25 Meters, though you may have actually.. hmmmm....

I'll do as many as I can anyway, and work from there!
J.

Seagurl51
May 12th, 2005, 08:14 PM
Whoa Ande! What's with the rehashing old threads?;)

Since I posted this thread all those many months ago, I've found a pretty good rythm to my backstroke. It's getting better slowly but surely, and I'm sure after this summer it will be even better.

Good Luck Jeanette with your breathing. You'll get it in no time!

Leonard Jansen
May 13th, 2005, 07:48 AM
Originally posted by ande

I've heard of swimmers pumping air into their intestines before a big race. eww


Actually, the East Germans tried this in the 70's and gave up on it as it provided relatively little floatation and lots of cramping/bloating/discomfort.

-LBJ

Scansy
May 13th, 2005, 09:36 AM
Originally posted by Leonard Jansen
Actually, the East Germans tried this in the 70's and gave up on it as it provided relatively little floatation and lots of cramping/bloating/discomfort.

-LBJ

Weren't the East Germans pumping everything and anything into their body around that time? Not just swimmers ....

EyeoreSAM
May 13th, 2005, 10:26 AM
Originally posted by SwiminONandON
Like a kissy/fish face kind of a thing? So you are really puffing out your lips?

I roll my top lip up to under my nose. I think I must have learned it when I was really little b/c I have always done it.

ande
May 13th, 2005, 10:49 AM
i just wandered into the hinter lands of "general discussions" looking for threads I wanted to comment on
I'm sure there's several people here who want to improve their backstroke

ande


Originally posted by Seagurl51
Whoa Ande! What's with the rehashing old threads?;)

Since I posted this thread all those many months ago, I've found a pretty good rythm to my backstroke. It's getting better slowly but surely, and I'm sure after this summer it will be even better.

Good Luck Jeanette with your breathing. You'll get it in no time!

SwiminONandON
May 13th, 2005, 10:53 AM
I don't need to improve my backstroke, it's perfect!













haha ... not really, anyone that has seen me swim backstroke will tell you it's far from perfect ... stupid backstroke! ;)

Scansy
May 13th, 2005, 11:23 AM
Backstroke bad. Breaststroke good.

Bad, bad, backstroke.

SwiminONandON
May 13th, 2005, 11:32 AM
Unfortunately I don't know who wrote this, I belive it has been posted before ... here's the backstroke part (they do all four strokes)
BACKSTROKE



We have many questions to ask of the world's backstrokers. First, what is the matter with you? That's right, you heard us. What is your problem? Do you not realize that you are upside down? Does light not shine in your sinister eyes? Are you reptiles with a second pair of eyelids, opaque in nature, that protect you from the sun's rays? Speaking of eyes, what about the ones in the backs of your heads, allowing you to spot the wall? Is it true that you can see through Speedos? And what of your start...crouched in front of the blocks as if praying to your "god." Who sent you to Earth? What have you done with Elvis? And why, when you grab at our private parts in practice, do you pretend that it is an accident?

sibleyclan
May 13th, 2005, 11:36 AM
Loved that!!! Now I need to see the ones for the other strokes!

katiann111
February 1st, 2012, 08:58 PM
I have never gotten water in my nose when I first push off the wall either, only when I'm trying to move really fast and move my arms like a crazy person. I've figured out that I actually swim faster when I relax a little. Also breathing out through your nose and in through your mouth helps.

orca1946
February 3rd, 2012, 07:39 PM
It beats pulling water in your nose & out your mouth!!!!!!!!:bolt:

wnt2bfst
February 4th, 2012, 01:03 AM
I have never gotten water in my nose when I first push off the wall either, only when I'm trying to move really fast and move my arms like a crazy person. I've figured out that I actually swim faster when I relax a little. Also breathing out through your nose and in through your mouth helps.

Nose plugs, the only way to flail! SDK's not a problem, with nose plugs.

What I would like to know is how do you keep your shoulder joint from tearing while flailing. :cane:

I am really not much of a fla'er. I am more of a "This is gonna hurt so glide as far as you can" backstroker.