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waterdevil
December 15th, 2004, 02:18 PM
So, I was just wondering what is the deal with YMCA Swimming :confused: I am familiar with USA Swimming at the age group and Senior level and if you belong to a registered USA swimming team you CANNOT swim YMCA or belong to a YMCA club team. So why is it okay at the Masters level:confused: Isn't CMSA part of United States Masters Swimming and not the Young Mens Christian Association?????????????
And, why is the CMSA putting those few ELITE swimmers, who just happen to be on the board and want to participate in YMCA meets, ahead of the rest (and the MAJORITY) of swimmers in Illinois. This ruins it for everyone else who is participating in Masters Swimming for the fun and enjoyment of it. This conflict of interest has put a crimp in the CMSA (not YMCA) State Meet.

ANY Answers would be helpful???
Thanks

SwimPhil
December 15th, 2004, 03:18 PM
Dear Waterdevil, you should keep your facts straight. The CMSA Board did nothing to change the CMSA State meet date agreed upon by the membership. In fact it protected the CMSA membership vote when the State meet host tried to change the date. Now that the State meet host admits that it cannot keep its commitment to the agreed upon date, why are those people throwing out accusations that a few elite swimmers kept them from changing the date? The request to change date was to meet the convenience of the State meet host, not the CMSA membership. DO NOT BLAME THIS ISSUE ON ANYBODY OTHER THAN THE STATE MEET HOST

waterdevil
December 15th, 2004, 03:43 PM
Okay so maybe I should clarify.
The original date was decided by someone who wanted to attend Y Nationals. Unfortunately the original date falls at a time when many schools have spring break, therefore many masters swimmers who also happen to be parents would probably not be able to attend the State Meet. I have heard that Naperville has an issue with that as the Naperville schools are on break at that time.

SwimPhil
December 15th, 2004, 03:57 PM
Get your facts straight Waterdevil. The Original date was selected by the State meet host in the bid they submitted! That bid was accepted by a majority vote in an open and publicized membership meeting. The date was not selected by someone who wanted to attend the Y Nationals. As for the Spring date issue, that was discussed at that meeting. No body from the State meet host indicated that was a problem for them. It would have been nice if the State meet host had done their homework in advance and knew they had a problem before offering a date they could not meet. So stop blaming the issue on Y Nationals and elite swimmers. You have no further to look than an unfortunate mistake by the state meet host. A mistake than can and is being delt with fairly, BY THE CMSA MEMBERSHIP

cjquill
December 15th, 2004, 05:13 PM
Dear Mr./Ms. Waterdevil:

Where did you ever get the idea that a CMSA board member could sponsor someone for the Y National Meet? This is not true. The ONLY way you can enter the meet is if you're a member - PERIOD.

This is a very contentious issue and your spreading misinformation will only make matters worse. It is truly unfortunate that a problem occured with the bid for a meet many CMSA members look forward to. It is also very unfortunate that an incorrect date has been disseminated to the membership.

Please check your facts before posting.

Thanking you in advance for your consideration,

Jennie Quill

dorothyrde
December 15th, 2004, 08:44 PM
I am not an ELITE swimmer and I want to go toY-nationals.

ALso there are many USA teams that are also YMCA affiliation, so the age groupers are both USA and YMCA teams. You have your facts way wrong.

waterdevil
December 15th, 2004, 09:02 PM
Okay sorry everybody, did not mean to get anyone upset. To clarify the USS versus YMCA. It is my understanding that YMCA teams can compete in USS swim meets. But on the other hand USS teams cannot compete in YMCA meets. I am not sure why this is, but it is what I have been told.
My questions was, does USMS also have this rule? From what I have heard, I guess not. Thank you for your response.

My issue with the State meet date change is: The new date seemed to be a better more convenient time. Yes, it should have been okay'd through CMSA first, before publishing the change. I agree with that. But the earlier dates fall at the beginning or the end of many school districts' spring break. This makes it harder for anyone with kids to attend. Not to mention that the later date moves it closer to Nationals, which is similar to how it was two years ago.

dorothyrde
December 15th, 2004, 09:28 PM
Many, many age group teams are under the affiliation of both YMCA and USA. In this manner the kids on these teams can swim both USA and YMCA sanctioned events. Certain YMCA meets are also sanctioned by USA, such as YMCA State and YMCA NAtionals.

It is true that if you are on a USA only team, you cannot be on a different YMCA team, nor can you swim at a YMCA meet. But if your team has dual sanctioning, then kids can swim at both.

I know this because my kids are on such a team.

waterdevil
December 15th, 2004, 09:37 PM
Yes, that is what I was trying to get across. If your team is affiliated with a YMCA you can go to both USS and YMCA meets. On the other hand if your team is not afilliated with a YMCA you cannot go to YMCA meets. The only answer I have gotten as to why USS teams cannot go to YMCA meets has to do with USA swimming insurance issues.
So I was only wondering if this is an issue with Masters swimming. From what I have heard it is not. From what I understand now it is okay to belong to two different teams, a YMCA and a USMS registered team.
If this is incorrect, please let me know,
Thank you for your help.

dorothyrde
December 15th, 2004, 10:18 PM
An age grouper can only go to USA meets if they are registered with USA and the same is true of YMCA. It is just that some teams are registered with both. This is also true with Masters. My masters team is a YMCA that is also registered with USMS. So I don't have to belong to two different teams to swim both types of championships.

In age group swimming there are many teams that are YMCA only and these teams do not and cannot go to USA meets because their kids are not registered members of USA swimming. On those said teams I know of kids who register as unattached with USA so they can swim USA meets. They cannot swim for their YMCA team because the YMCA team is not a member of USA. Just as a USA team cannot swim YMCA unless they are registered as a YMCA team.

If you read the meet information for YMCA Masters Nationals, it is a similar situation. The team has to be registered in order for relays from that team to go. An individual can go if they are a member of their Y and the Y fills out the paperwork for them to go.So a U of I Masters team member could also be a member at McKinley Y. They could go to YMCA Masters because the YMCA would be able to prove they are a standing member(there are rules as to how long you need to be member to attend).

One difference I see between the age group rules and the Masters rules(besides Masters has no time standards for their National meet), is that age groupers must attend 3 closed YMCA meets to be eligible for their championship meet. And to be eligible for the National meet, they must compete in a championship meet in their state. For Masters there is no such rule, just be a member at your Y for a certain number of days.

Just an additional clarification on the in and outs of YMCA swimming. :)

Barola
December 15th, 2004, 10:24 PM
:confused: What in the Sam-H is this vote thing all about? Someone's agenda, or shall I say "insight" is really screwed up. Tell me why we have this issue with "elite" swimmers. This has to be someone's ill-informed bias. Please define "elite" swimmer. These accusations about "elite" swimmers wanting something is soooooo off base. You must understand. When an entity such as CMSA advertises for bids for a particular thing such as state meet, the bidders who submit their bids for this state meet project do so with the presumption that the bidders understand the "terms" of their respective bids and that the process for deciding to whom to award the bid has at least some semblence of fairness. CMSA at its semi-annual meeting of the membership received and opened 3 bids for the state meet. Each of the bids contained proposed dates, venues and other pertinent matters. The membership took a written vote and the entity that won the bid did so based upon the state meet taking place on April 1,2, and 3. Prior to the vote at the semi-annual meeting of the membership, a discussion was held about the dates and the coordination of Y Nats. Most importantly the issue was discussed and considered by all members who were present. There were significantly more CMSA members present than just these undefined "elite" swimmer[s] who might be on the CMSA board. After discussion -- consistent with Roberts Rules -- the vote was taken. The April 1,2 and 3 dates won!! Period. Then, persons who were not present at the semi-annual meeting sought a change of dates which was purportedly approved by one single member of the executive committee. Is this fair to the other bidders? Absolutely not. Do you think people can unilaterally change a vote of the membership at a semi-annual meeting? Do you simply reconstruct history to fit the "needs" of certain persons? Does not this entire issue place into question the integrity of the CMSA at large? Once the board discovered the "unilateral" change, the board voted to do a rebid of the state meet because it was the only way to attempt to resurrect the integrity of the CMSA adminsitration. This is not a simple YMCA versus CMSA issue. That is a RED HERRING. This issue is more complex and and runs much deeper. It concerns fairness and integrity and how it impacts all of the members of CMSA. Not just the disgruntled state meet hosts who realized with hindsight that their dates were no do-able. Let's stop the accusations. And lastly -- why can't you swim Y Nats, USMS Nats and State meet? Just Do It! Bury the hatchet!!!!

dorothyrde
December 16th, 2004, 07:47 AM
Ok, now I am a little confused. I know what date the Y-nat meet is on, now what date is the CMSA state meet on. Neither conflicts with my kids spring break. Their schedule is determined by the U of I spring break which is the 3rd week in March. How is that for an icky time for spring break? and the reason to have it then? Anyway, which date is CMSA state meet on, for my planning purposes?

cjquill
December 16th, 2004, 09:31 AM
Right now, there is no scheduled CMSA championship meet. The three orginal bidders, Evanston/Chicago, Carbondale, and Barrington, have been invited to re-bid for the meet. Once Mary Pohlman is back in the country she will post relevant information about which of these groups submitted a bid and for what date. The following quote is from her e-mail announcing the re-bid:

"I'm sure you all realize that no date is going to please everyone; however, the Board is reluctant to override the vote of the membership. Since the dates March 31-April 3 are no longer feasible for Chicago/Evanston, we are going to put the bids back on the table for vote by the team representatives. We are collecting team representative information with the 2005 club registration and should be able to put out an emailing about this issue after Christmas. We should have a final decision by mid-January in time for publication in the February newsletter."

Hope this helps.

dorothyrde
December 16th, 2004, 09:55 AM
Yes it does help, thanks!