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jswim
May 12th, 2005, 02:33 PM
I have been wondering about differences in pool lengths and competition issues between short course yards, and meters, and LCMs...

I train in a short course yard pool, but had my first meet in a 25 meter pool. I didn't notice too much of a difference, and it didn't bother me. I am interested in doing more meets, but there are only a couple of short course meets, and more long course meets in the area.

Is it suicide to train in a 25 yd pool then go to a long course 50 meter meet? has anyone done this before? I am interested in going for fun, and just to see the difference..

J.

sibleyclan
May 12th, 2005, 02:45 PM
I've just started swimming myself (in a 25 yd pool) so I've got no first hand observations to offer. My twins are on an age group club that trains exclusively at the same pool. One of them started swimming in September of 2003 (the other started about 6 months later) and, by the end of the Short Course season (end of March), had worked up to some "BB" times. She only swam 4 LC meets but ended the season with 2 "A" times (50 & 100 free) and one "AA" time (50 fly) so I don't really think it hurt her not to train in a 50 meter pool. I don't know how much difference it makes to swim the distance without having to make that turn.

ande
May 12th, 2005, 02:54 PM
it's better to train than not train
if you can find a 50 m pool that's great, there just aren't as many of them as 25 y or 25 m

if you only train SCY, when you swim LCM
you'll be wondering where the wall is and why you're so tired.
correct splitting is critical when swimming LCM even in a 50.

ande


Originally posted by jswim
I have been wondering about differences in pool lengths and competition issues between short course yards, and meters, and LCMs...

I train in a short course yard pool, but had my first meet in a 25 meter pool. I didn't notice too much of a difference, and it didn't bother me. I am interested in doing more meets, but there are only a couple of short course meets, and more long course meets in the area.

Is it suicide to train in a 25 yd pool then go to a long course 50 meter meet? has anyone done this before? I am interested in going for fun, and just to see the difference..

J.

SwiminONandON
May 12th, 2005, 03:18 PM
Amanda Beard had only trained LCM twice before the 96 Olympic trials ... Realize that it'll be harder but that you can do it ... sounds like you have the right attitude.

At about 20 yards you will be wondering where the wall is ... however on the flip side of this if you start training LCM and then go to SCY you will think wow the wall is here already. THAT is a great feeling!

Matthias
May 12th, 2005, 03:27 PM
training in a SCM for a LCM is possible and seems to be used successfully by some coaches. I recently read an article about this. They advised to train off distances (like doing 75's instead of 50's when you are training for a 50LCM) so you get the endurance you need to overcome the need to turn in the middle of the pool :D
at first I couldn't believe that you are acutally slower in a LCM pool than in a SCM pool but now I realized that a good push off at turns will make you faster than you are while acutally stroking.

tjrpatt
May 12th, 2005, 03:32 PM
Alot of people train only in 25 yards and do LCM meets. I met one swimmer who did a 2:21 in his 200 LCM fly and he doesn't train long course at all. It is best to train LCM as much as you can but if you can't, just train hard in whatever type of pool that you train in.

I prefer LCM over Short Course, but since I am not in the shape that I was when I was an age grouper, I seem to do better in Short Course meets. My Long Course last season times were bloody awful. Well, this summer is a whole new season and at least, I will get a June meet in this summer.

jswim
May 12th, 2005, 03:52 PM
great!..
well I'll give the LCM meets a go and see what happens!.. Also, the "team" (of about 4-5 people) lol.. that I've started working out with never did the meets, but since I went to this last one, it has sparked some interest from everyone! We may actually go to a meet as a team! how fun!

cheers!
J
:)

DAP
May 12th, 2005, 04:42 PM
This is a relevant thread for me. Just yesterday, I swam in a 50 meter pool for the very first time. It was also the first time I went to a real Masters workout. I had taken some classes from the Masters group before, and all my previous swimming had been in 25 yard pools. The shock to me was that the 50 meter pool felt like it went on and on. It felt like more than double the usual distance, and it felt as if I would never reach the wall.

Bob McAdams
May 12th, 2005, 11:13 PM
The first meet I was ever in was a long course meet, and it was the first time I'd ever been in a long course pool in my life.

I do remember, about halfway down the lane in my first heat (50m freestyle) hearing a little voice in my head saying "Haven't we reached land yet?" But I just ignored it.

I don't remember that the fact it was LC instead of SC made much difference in 50 freestyle. But in backstroke, I ran into a problem because it was also an outdoor pool. I was used to being indoors, where I could steer off the ceiling, but all I had at the meet was a blue sky, and halfway down the 50m lane, I couldn't even see the flags. So I steered wrong and started bumping the lane line, and kept bumping it over and over and over again. My time was a disaster!

kaffrinn
May 12th, 2005, 11:41 PM
Jeanette,

Last summer I trained as usual in a 25-yard pool, but before our long-course state meet, I found an outdoor LCM pool in town and trained in it just once for a small fee. I don't know if it provided me with anything other than a mental advantage, but it was fun to do and if you have a LCM pool in your area, I'd recommend it. You might also want to try swimming 125's or 225's in practice for time instead of 100's and 200's, to give you the feeling of racing a longer distance (although in the 100 that will be overshooting it a bit).

It's definitely not "suicide" to swim in an LCM pool after practicing in SCY...you'll get through it just fine. As a youth I always trained in SCY but performed best in LCM pools.

But I don't think I'll ever get rid of that feeling while swimming backstroke in a long-course pool..."WHERE are the flags? Did I miss them? Am I gonna hit the wall?!?"

Katherine

dorothyrde
May 13th, 2005, 07:33 AM
Here in Illinois the age group teams are facing this more and more as the park districts are doing away with the old outdoor 50 meter pools, and replacing them with water parks(Joliets closed last summer, Champaigns is open for its last summer this year).

The kids have no choice but to train SC and swim LC. It is possible, but what I have observed is there is a definate breakdown about 3/4 across that they are searching for the wall, especially early in the season. Once they have raced a few meets, they adjust.

LC helps if you are not good at turns!

Scansy
May 13th, 2005, 09:34 AM
I have never had the opportunity to swim a LC pool. I swim SCY regularly. Heck, every once in a while I will swim SCM and it seems long.

Rumor has it that the Y where I swim is planning to start construction on a LCM pool this fall. I say rumor because the same thing has been said for a couple of years now. As you would expect with a Y, funding is an issue.

Blue Horn
May 13th, 2005, 10:41 AM
They switch my pool up every so often, so I have trained in both the 50 Meter LC and the 50 Yard SC. I prefer the LC over the SC because it lets me focus more on my stroke and getting into a rythm. Plus, I feel like I get a better work out and it seems like I am swimming less (due to less laps).

The one advantage I think training in a SC pool gives you is the ability to work on your turns and to develope better lungs because you spend more time on your turns. Focusing on making the fourth line after each turn really helps you develope a sense of how little you really need air and how you can go past that burning sensation. Obviously, this will help you in your races, no matter the type of pool.

Just my 2 cents, if it is even worth that.

Hook'em
Blue

Jeff Commings
May 13th, 2005, 02:03 PM
Originally posted by DAP
, and all my previous swimming had been in 25 yard pools. The shock to me was that the 50 meter pool felt like it went on and on. It felt like more than double the usual distance, and it felt as if I would never reach the wall.

It is more than double the distance. 50 meters equates to about 55 yards. Add in the fact that the turn eliminates about 5 yards of swimming in yards, and you're ending up swimming 50 yards in one length of a long course pool instead of 45 yards in two lengths of a short course pool.

Interestingly, I had my first long course workout in nine months last weekend. Yeah, it hurts. But your body adjusts.

In 1991 US Swimming changed the spring nationals from short course to long course for the first time. I was scared I wouldn't do well because we didn't have a long course pool to train in in the winter, and that I'd die hard on the last 50 of my 100 breast. But I did lots of overtraining, as Matthias pointed out. Instead of sets of 100's, I did sets of 125s. Whether it was the training or the fact that my coach told me that some of the other guys in the race probably didn't have access to a short course pool (which I didn't really believe because they all attended universities with long course pools), but I swam best times in all three of my events.

I love racing long course. I hate training in long course.

Alicat
May 15th, 2005, 07:41 AM
This is one of my pet peeves --along with twisted phone cords…

I talk to people who say they have an “Olympic size swimming pool” and I believe they are meaning a 50 meter pool. So I quickly ask, “it looks as long as a football field right?” and they look at me bewildered and usually say, “No, it's not as long as a football field…” and my retort is usually, “then it’s not an Olympic size pool…” response “yes it is…” and they start arguing with me. I just smile remembering how the wall NEVER seemed to come and REALLY working the turns so I would have to stroke less. Hey, this is what I remember when I was 10 years old!

Now I have never heard of this one (before going to Ohio), “Junior Olympic size pool” meaning 25 yards. For me, it’s 25 yards or 50 meters. I suppose it’s because we have about three 25 meter pools in New England. Our 50 meter pools are almost always public pools (different set of tangents there seen in different threads) and these pools are always in disarray and are always being threatened to be closed by the Parks and Recreation Dept. every Spring.

I have much more of a “Wow!” factor when I read about the swimmers who can buzz down and back in record time. Yet, when I get to watch on TV they seem slow, I freely admit this is a “seem” kind of thing, and I feel really bad about it. Maybe it’s too much NASCAR and I think sound effects should be added!

valhallan
May 15th, 2005, 10:45 AM
It's a real help in knowing your stroke count per lap in the smaller pool (for both race pace and normal speed), and letting this information be your guide for the longer lanes.

Freestyle isn't usually a problem if there's a mark along the middle of the pool. The mid way point is often defined. But as a few of you mentioned, backstroke can be a bit trickier especially outdoors.

During warm-up at my last long course meet I swam alot of backstroke studying the ceiling fixtures to guage when the walls would appear. (We don't have many outdoors pools in the North East).

Karen Duggan
May 15th, 2005, 11:15 AM
I can always tell 25 m from 25 y with my stroke count. Just do a couple of pace 50's and you'll see a time difference as well, provided you know your 25 y pace 50 times!

I think the change from 25y to 25 is more psychological than physical. You just need to get used to the wall not being where you're used to it :p

Scansy
May 15th, 2005, 08:53 PM
Originally posted by Alicat
.... Maybe it’s too much NASCAR and I think sound effects should be added!

That would be cool. As Phelps (or Croker, Beard, Thorpe, ....) goes by the camera you would hear the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRROOOOOWWWWWWwwwwwww!

Guvnah
May 16th, 2005, 01:23 PM
Originally posted by Scansy
That would be cool. As Phelps (or Croker, Beard, Thorpe, ....) goes by the camera you would hear the rrrrrrrrrrrrrrRRRRRRROOOOOWWWWWWwwwwwww!

Know what? I'll bet that if they had underwater microphones, you might very well hear something like that.

I know that when I push it, I tend to grunt or growl on my exhales.

It might make an interesting "flavor" for TV swimming coverage if they miked the pool.

Scansy
May 16th, 2005, 03:45 PM
I know that when my freestyle stroke is good (relatively speeking) it sounds different to me as I swim. Can't explain it, but it does.

DAP
May 16th, 2005, 04:00 PM
Originally posted by Scansy
I know that when my freestyle stroke is good (relatively speeking) it sounds different to me as I swim. Can't explain it, but it does. I have experienced the same thing. I'm still learning, but in those short periods when my freestyle feels right, it sounds different. The water rushing by the ears makes a different rushing sound. I assume it is the sound of a good streamline. Unfortunately, I can't reproduce it reliably yet.

Allen Stark
May 16th, 2005, 04:26 PM
I love LCM. I like to say"LCM is for swimmers and SCY is for turners."None the less,I rarely get to train long course. To compensate I not only swim over distance(75 for a 50,125 for a 100) but I don't push off on every other turn. This not only gets the stroke count about right for the distance,but it gives the experience of having to accelerate which is great for that last 25 when you want to speed up,but don't have the crutch of a wall to push off of.