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some_girl
May 31st, 2005, 11:47 AM
Inspired by some of the discussion in the fly thread (http://forums.usms.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4628&perpage=15&pagenumber=2) , I was wondering how you all feel about drills.

Personally, they drive me nuts, yet everywhere people rave about TI and boy do my coaches like 'em. I find that generally drills just make me feel as though I'm learning to swim a way I will never actually swim, as opposed to helping me focus on one aspect of the stroke. For instance, last night, we were doing breaststroke drills and I spent the entire time trying to learn the drill as opposed to focusing on what we were meant to learn.

Also, I tend to learn technique by figuring out what feels right, but with drills, it feels different because you aren't doing the full stroke.

What about you?

geochuck
May 31st, 2005, 12:02 PM
The best swim coach I ever knew always said you have to swim to be good.

The only drills we ever did were arms only, kicking front and back with out a board and bilateral breathing. Lots of fartlicks and timed swims. We did fartlicks or pyramids before they had a name.

jswim
May 31st, 2005, 12:15 PM
my relationship with drills comes in waves. Sometimes I'm just NOT in the mood and I want to swim, other times I start to feel like I'd love to do a drill set.

I have to say I think they've helped me. For instance, Fist drill forced me to realize how much I used my hands for balance in the water and changed the way I use my forearm in freestyle. I can tell after I do drills my stroke feels much smoother. (though that may be just a perception thing coming off a drill set)

Other than some of the basic freestyle drills, finger drill, fist drill, and r&r, we don't do much else in our coached practice besides regular swim sets :)

geochuck
May 31st, 2005, 12:21 PM
Perception - kick a few lengths then swim and you seem to be swimming better, but are you?

sibleyclan
May 31st, 2005, 12:31 PM
I'm going to have to give it time to see if I want to do drills. As I've been at this only a bit over a month, I'm still focusing just on increasing my distance per workout. I feel confident enough with where I am that I've entered the 800 meter distance of an open water swim this weekend. I plan on entering a meet in July and trying the shorter distances at all four strokes with a goal of just finishing. I never swam high school or college, only summer club teams. Starting to swim with my six year old in February made me realize how much I missed just swimming after 30+ years away.

I watch my daughters do drills so I've been exposed to them & understand what they're for, I just don't know at this point if I want to dedicate part of the (realitively) small amount of time I get to swim to drills rather than just swimming.

Matthias
May 31st, 2005, 01:11 PM
I like drills a lot. I think there is no better way to work on certain aspects of your technique.
The guy who writes the plans for my coach usually doesn't include any drills so I usually throw in some drills in those long endless freestyle swims (speaking of a 500 and up) to include some spice and improve my swimming while actually getting some cardio workout.

poolmonkey
May 31st, 2005, 01:18 PM
I try to make sure I have a good kick set in every workout. And I really try to focus on my technique when I start to get tired. The only drill I really do is the one arm fly. I'll like the 2-2-2.

jswim
May 31st, 2005, 02:24 PM
Originally posted by geochuck
Perception - kick a few lengths then swim and you seem to be swimming better, but are you?

sigh.. yeah.. I know you're right.. darnit! and I thought I was doing so well!!! ;) lol

aztimm
May 31st, 2005, 06:32 PM
I hate it when we're supposed to be doing a drill set, and the person behind me doesn't, and rides me the whole set, and they refuse to go ahead.

We seem to go through phases, I think in the fall we do more drills, then Jan-Mar more emphasis on distance. There are a few drills I have found extremely useful, especially one arm, when you keep your other arm at your side.

Donna
May 31st, 2005, 09:15 PM
I especially love doing one arm fly. Since I have a really bad back, the one arm fly really helps me to loosen my back enough to make it through practice or a meet. :cool:

Bob McAdams
May 31st, 2005, 10:33 PM
Originally posted by some_girl
I find that generally drills just make me feel as though I'm learning to swim a way I will never actually swim, as opposed to helping me focus on one aspect of the stroke. For instance, last night, we were doing breaststroke drills and I spent the entire time trying to learn the drill as opposed to focusing on what we were meant to learn.

The purpose of drills is not to help you "focus on one aspect of the stroke." It is to allow you to break out of bad swimming techniques you have been practicing for so long that they have become habit. For example:

When I learned to swim at age 7, they taught us to breathe on only one side. Many years later, I learned that this is not recommended because it tends to make your stroke lopsided. So I tried to learn to breathe on the other side. But it was a total failure. I'd start down the lane breathing on my new side, but by the end of the lane I'd somehow switched back to my familiar side. I'd been breathing on only one side for so long that it was too deeply engrained for me to be able to break out of it.

But then I went to a TI weekend workshop and they gave us drills which we practiced on both sides. My engrained habits didn't cause me any trouble because the drills didn't feel like swimming, and therefore my brain didn't invoke it's lopsided habits. As the workshop progressed, the drill sequence moved closer and closer to whole stroke swimming, until by the end of the weekend I was doing whole stroke freestyle, breathing on both sides.

some_girl
May 31st, 2005, 10:34 PM
All the one-arm fly lovers. On the one hand, it's easier than two arm, but on the other, I always end up leaning on the side I'm stroking with, and then it doesn't feel like fly.

geochuck
May 31st, 2005, 10:39 PM
Bob McAdams

Just a thought I think drills were made up by coaches to make workouts to be fun, but drills are not fun.

Drills are an excuse by coaches to not coach proper technique.

Leonard Jansen
June 1st, 2005, 07:39 AM
I love using fistgloves as a drilling tool. The guy that invented them should get the swimming equivalent of a Noble Prize.

-LBJ

craiglll@yahoo.com
June 1st, 2005, 01:21 PM
Sometimes whe really bad swimmers ask me how to improve their stokes, I tell them some drills. They say to me that they aren't going to do that . They remain bad swimmers.

I think that swimmers who have good strokes can use drills. Peole with bad strokes need to use drills.

shark
June 1st, 2005, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by geochuck
Bob McAdams

Just a thought I think drills were made up by coaches to make workouts to be fun, but drills are not fun.

Drills are an excuse by coaches to not coach proper technique.

I'm not sure what this means. Drills are used by coaches to teach proper technique. I bet if you look at any of the olympic swimmers, they all use some type of drill. Be it drills for starts, strokes, turns or breath control. Drills are a very important part of swimming. I use drills as a conditioning part of my program for my young swimmers. Conditioning through proper drilling on technique.

You can't find any elite athlete at any sport that doesn't use drills to enhance their performances.

football - blocking drills
baseball - hitting drills
basketball - shooting drills
cheerleading - varsity sport where I teach - cheer drills
wrestling - take down drills
swimming - stroke, turn, start drills
etc.

Just my two cents worth.

nkace
June 1st, 2005, 02:32 PM
One arm fly??? People do that, for real?
Ahhh trying to breathe on both sides is quite the production for me as I too only learned as a kid to breathe in 1 side. How do you get into the proper rhythym of doing both?

some_girl
June 1st, 2005, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com
Sometimes whe really bad swimmers ask me how to improve their stokes, I tell them some drills. They say to me that they aren't going to do that . They remain bad swimmers.

I think that swimmers who have good strokes can use drills. Peole with bad strokes need to use drills.


See, I think some people just learn things different ways. My technique has gotten much better as of late, and it had nothing to do with drills. Rather, the person I was working with said, "You need to do more X." Then I attempted to do so and said, "Like that?" And he would say yes or no. When he said yes, I memorized what that felt like. However, when I do drills, I spend the time fighting againt my instinct to swim the stroke normally.

I know it sounds like justification, but I guess I'm just trying to figure out if anyone else has had this experience.

jim clemmons
June 1st, 2005, 02:53 PM
Gotta agree with Shark and really, really disagree with Geochuck on this issue.

Drills have purpose in reinforcement and correction although there are probably some coaches out there someplace (and not just in BC) that don't understand them and may just throw some in to kill time.

Jim

BTW, the poll could use a 4th choice between the "love 'em" and "don't mind them", such as "I like them occasionally, just not all the time".

geochuck
June 1st, 2005, 02:53 PM
Originally posted by shark
I'm not sure what this means. Drills are used by coaches to teach proper technique. I bet if you look at any of the olympic swimmers, they all use some type of drill. Be it drills for starts, strokes, turns or breath control. Drills are a very important part of swimming. I use drills as a conditioning part of my program for my young swimmers. Conditioning through proper drilling on technique.

You can't find any elite athlete at any sport that doesn't use drills to enhance their performances.
Just my two cents worth. I have been watching other coaches who make up their workouts and every work out is a drill no time spent on stroke correction. I as a coach don't do anything but stroke correction. I let the drill sargents have the swimmers drilled to death. Drills will not correct anything unless each drill is a coached drill. That is the reason I only do one on one teaching (coaching???)

geochuck
June 1st, 2005, 03:19 PM
Originally posted by jim clemmons
Gotta agree with Shark and really, really disagree with Geochuck on this issue.

Drills have purpose in reinforcement and correction although there are probably some coaches out there someplace (and not just in BC) that don't understand them and may just throw some in to kill time.
I don't waste the time of the people I teach, they are nearly always begginner tri athletes, most have a little experience. So the time I spend with them is to correct major mistakes. I get rid of their problems and let them go to the slave drivers. As I said before I make a few bucks to buy coffee and they go on to someone else. I usually sign them up for 6 to 10 teaching sessions. I have between 7 to 10 clients a week. I really do not want to work harder and have more.

jswim
June 2nd, 2005, 10:45 AM
I just did some searching and found Phelps and Coughlin do quite a bit of kicking drills, among others. Not an overwhelming amount of time seemed to be spent on drills, but at least some time, and enough for them to be mentioned in articles.

I would imagine that by the time you're training for the olympics, you've pretty much broken your bad habits (at least the major ones), and are working to improve and focus on certain aspects of a stroke.

That being said, I'm sure people react to drills in different ways. Everyone learns differently, so some people may not get the benefit from drills that others do, but I can't see why it would hurt to try them once in awhile.

just a thought. :)

craiglll@yahoo.com
June 2nd, 2005, 12:31 PM
Originally posted by some_girl
See, I think some people just learn things different ways. My technique has gotten much better as of late, and it had nothing to do with drills. Rather, the person I was working with said, "You need to do more X." Then I attempted to do so and said, "Like that?" And he would say yes or no. When he said yes, I memorized what that felt like. However, when I do drills, I spend the time fighting againt my instinct to swim the stroke normally.

I know it sounds like justification, but I guess I'm just trying to figure out if anyone else has had this experience.
That's a drill you wre doing it just wasn't something you wanted to label as a drill.

geochuck
June 2nd, 2005, 12:43 PM
We did what coaches call drills before they were called drills, arms only, kicks of all sorts, catch up, dives, streamline, one length no breathe, you name it. I don't think every practice needs to be drills. I know when I give a workout to some one they know what the workout is and don't have to figure out a code to finish it.

some_girl
June 2nd, 2005, 12:50 PM
Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com
That's a drill you wre doing it just wasn't something you wanted to label as a drill.

It isn't about wanting to label; it's just having different definitions of drill, but thanks for ascribing delusion when there was a much better possibilty for explanation. I do enjoy my motives being impugned.

My beef is with, shall we say, the subset of drills that involve not swimming the stroke as you normally would (with the exception of kick and pull sets) as opposed to just focusing on a particular ascpect or sensation while swimming the stroke. I'm sorry I wasn't clearer before. Take catch-up for instance. I spend so much time focusing on countering my instinct to start pulling at a certain point that I get nothing else from it. I do the drill because I do what my coach tells me to, but it's certainly beyond frustrating.

I was curious if I was crazy or in the bell curve on that feeling. The poll is inconclusive.

Kevin in MD
June 2nd, 2005, 12:51 PM
George,

I am wondering you would or how you do in fact work stroke correction time into a standard masters practice of one hour.

geochuck
June 2nd, 2005, 01:18 PM
Originally posted by Kevin in MD
George,

I am wondering you would or how you do in fact work stroke correction time into a standard masters practice of one hour. At a master swim session I take a lane at a time and spend five or more minutes doing stroke stuff. It may be a dropped elbow, finish, shoulder roll, breathing in the arm pit, head to high, hand position, only one correction to work on at a time. On front crawl I have 29 items that I check and try to correct.

Maryyyyyy
June 2nd, 2005, 01:51 PM
Originally posted by geochuck
The best swim coach I ever knew always said you have to swim to be good.

The only drills we ever did were arms only, kicking front and back with out a board and bilateral breathing. Lots of fartlicks and timed swims. We did fartlicks or pyramids before they had a name.

'scuse me George, with all respect, I just gotta correct the spelling of:

FARTLEK (färtlk)

NOUN:
An athletic training technique, used especially in running, in which periods of intense effort alternate with periods of less strenuous effort in a continuous workout.

ETYMOLOGY:
Swedish, speed play : fart, running, speed (from fara, to go, move, from Old Norse; see per- 2 in Indo-European roots) + lek, play (from leka, to play, from Old Norse leika)

geochuck
June 2nd, 2005, 02:05 PM
Fartlick,
fartlek, Fartlek comes from the Swedish word for 'Speed Play'

I may be a terrible speller however I was also told, the training system was called after Desmond Fartlick. Who ever he was.

Maryyyyyy
June 2nd, 2005, 02:09 PM
Originally posted by geochuck
Fartlick,
fartlek, Fartlek comes from the Swedish word for 'Speed Play'

I may be a terrible speller however I was also told, the training system was called after Desmond Fartlick. Who ever he was.

ha! could be right! I'm never quite sure of myself...

it's just the word itself is SO open to silly comments.

I myself love doing fartleks in workouts...

geochuck
June 2nd, 2005, 02:11 PM
Best to change it to pyramid it is not as crude. The other cleaner version is ladder training.
There is also Garelick, a real swimming platform http://www.boatersworld.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?categoryId=342062&storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10051

shark
June 2nd, 2005, 02:21 PM
Originally posted by geochuck
I have been watching other coaches who make up their workouts and every work out is a drill no time spent on stroke correction.

Where I'm from these people aren't really coaching. This type of "coach" is just punching a time card, collecting a paycheck. Drills require hands-on coaching. Fundamentals cannot be taught without some type of feedback. But, fundamentals are required to be good at anything, IMO. I seem to remember a post that read, "Build a volkswagon, drive a volkswagon. Build a porsche, drive a porsche." As a coach, I feel that drills are important to build that porsche, even at the masters level. If drills are accompanied by a coach sitting down reading the paper, then you aren't even going to be able to build a gremlin.

Nothing against any of you VW owners or gremlin lovers. Boy, wouldn't that be a thread!

craiglll@yahoo.com
June 2nd, 2005, 05:57 PM
Originally posted by geochuck
Fartlick,
fartlek, Fartlek comes from the Swedish word for 'Speed Play'

I may be a terrible speller however I was also told, the training system was called after Desmond Fartlick. Who ever he was.

My father's first language was Swedish. He always told me that it ment playful journey. Unfortunately, my father is dead. I always thought it ment fun journey. So I looked at my Swedish lanuage dictinary/There is no Fart word there is fard which means journey. when you look up speed it gives the verb fart. Then I asked the retired minister who confimed me. He said that farte means what one might think and would never be said in public and it is an English word made to fit into Swedish by immigrants. Thank you Pastor Contance Johnson (there are many Swedish desendants in Galesburg, IL). Lek I knew means to play but many like as in silly . I looked that word up in my dictionary It means 1. ; (med dockor) play; pa~in play: ur~en out of the . 2 (kort~ ) pack 3 (-fiskars-) spawning ( My comment. This is turned into a slang for sex, I think) pairing and mating.

Lik is a very common Swedish word that means death, or dead body. It is used in slang for some one who is boring. It also means alike.

What Swedish I know is almost all American Swedish slang. When ever my father, his brother, & his sister were talking they spoke Swedish. American Swedish is almost, at least here, all slang. When my fahter got mad could he say some Swedish.

Anyway, I think we can determine that fartlek means somehting like speed play or fast play or maybe fast journey. I don't think it is fartlik -speed death although that's how you might feel when you do it! I thnk in the book written in the 1907's by the runner who died, can't remember his mane Jim Ryan maybe... He says it means speed play.

Tacks meca or tacks gotta haul. those are slang for thank you.

BillS
June 2nd, 2005, 06:33 PM
Depends on what you mean by drills. I swim by myself with no coach or team, currently doing Mo Chambers workouts off this site, so I don't have to worry about what others are doing or the coach wants. When the workout calls for drills, I work on whatever I think I need to work on that day.

Recent examples include trying to break my bad habit of breathing on the first stroke after the flip, so I'll swim 100's trying to wait until stroke 2. I'm working on dolphin kicking off the wall, so I'll do 25's and do 5 the first set, 4 the next. I'll combine the dolphin off the wall drill with the don't breathe yet drill. I'll do an underwater 25 dolphin kick with fins without breathing. And I always count strokes. If I'm over 15 for a non-sprinted 25 meter length, I'll do a length where I try and stretch it out and get back to 12 or 13. I'll see how long I can swim at a decent pace holding stroke at 15 or under.

I consider all of these to be drills, and I'm certain all have helped my swimming.

Maryyyyyy
June 3rd, 2005, 06:06 AM
Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com


Tacks meca or tacks gotta haul. those are slang for thank you.

Hey Craig, I grew up like you, only instead of Swedes we are Norwegians. If anyone out there thinks "well, that's the same thing, isn't it?" ummmm, nope! but yes, but kinda not...

Anyway, I got the definition off a Yahoo dictionary, here's the link:
FARTLEK (http://education.yahoo.com/reference/dictionary/entry/fartlek)
I'm not being picky or know-it-all... I'm just kinda into etymology. And I REALLY like farlek drills!

Takk!

craiglll@yahoo.com
June 3rd, 2005, 11:48 AM
Mary,

My father was first generation Swedish american and my mother was first generation Norwegian. My Norwegian great-grandfather lived to be 97 years old. He was so strict that when my grandmother pierced her ears, she was forbinded to ever eat inhis dining room. she always ate inthe kitchen of his house with his house keeper. When he died the entire little town where he lived showed up at his funeral. I'll never forget how everyone talked about how he farmed to the end. My father would work all week, we'd get in the car (all six kids, my grandmother, my mother), drive from central Illinois to norhteastern Iowa. My father would do the farming. Then on Sunday night we'd drive back home & my father would go to work onMonday morning. I think all Norwegian (some Swedish also) American immigrants have a fetish for strawberries. My great grandmother, who died 10 days before I wa born (there's nothing like Lutheran guilt) had huge strawberry patches. I don't know what it is?

Also, did you know that we of Norwegian descent make up the smallest European ethinic group in the US! There are even fewer of us than Romanians, Slovenians.

Also, this morning I talked to the oldest Swedish immigrant I know. He said that fartlek to him would mean something like playing a fast . He also said that it is kind of a nnsense word because you can make so many compound words in Swedish. I then looked in the book on running (I've already forgotten the name) the Swedish track coach who invented the word ment it to mean speed play or fast running play (sometimes in Swedish a word can be induced becaus of what is being done).

Maryyyyyy
June 4th, 2005, 12:58 PM
Craig,
Two norwegians were taking a lifeguarding class. One asked the other: "Do you know how to save a Swede from drowning?" the one said. "No," his friend said after a little while. The first Norwegian grinned, "Oh, That's good." :D

OK, back to the subject of the thread...

Lately I've been trying to dedicate myself to drills more than usual. My freestyle needs a lot of correction, and especially the left arm entry, which I tend to do with my elbow too low, slapping the water instead of entering hand-forearm-elbow-upperarm-shoulder. So today, my program said: "500m freestyle drills"... I did 200, then went on to do a really tough set of 6 x 200m followed by 4 x 100m followed by ...

and I realized why drills are not popular: they are HARD! I'd much rather do 6x 200m any day, and 200's are not exactly my faves...

But, I do believe in drills and will do my best to up the ante.

Takk!
Mary

craiglll@yahoo.com
June 4th, 2005, 05:46 PM
Mary,
I'm only half offended. When My father was inthe fourth grade, a new boy came to his scholl. the little boy had come from Sweden. His teacher assigned my father to help the new boy fit in becasue the boy spoke no English. The teacher, this was in the early 1920's, actually said that she couldn't understand why all the stupid little Swedes didn't speak English before they came to this contry. They were actually forbidden from speaking Swedish n the school. For almost the entire student body, Swedish was their first language and Galesburg was at the tiem almost 40% Swedish. It amazes me that this issue about bilingual education still exists.

On the Norwegian side. My grandmothers name wa Nellie Nelson. Your last name is so Norwegian. My great grandmother's maiden name was Liervik. Where in the US did you grow up? Did you grow up eating ribs? My mother used to work with a woman who married a man ofNorwegian ancestry. this woman used to talk about her mother-in-laws rids. One day i asked why we never ate ribs at Christmas time. My mother repplie to me that we didn't becasue we didn't have to. Also, did anyone ever make upside down pineappple cake? I think I wa in highschool before I realized that you didn't have to eat that for every special occasion.

My Swedish great grandfather changed his name from Orling to Johnson because they were kicked out of Sweden for trying to start the revolutin. You know Methodist Swedish immigrnts came to the US becaseu they were poor. Lutherans came here becasue they were kicked out by rich Methodists.

Do cartch-up drills for your left arm entry. It will really help.

Maryyyyyy
June 5th, 2005, 03:07 AM
Craig,
I am really cracking up over this Norge-Swede thing and I hope we're not bugging the other folks in the thread being off-topic!
So, my dad, Sigurd Lokken (that Norwegian enough for you?) was born in the USA but didn't speak English until he went to school when he was 5. He grew up in Pigeon Falls Wisconsin where his dad was the book-keeper in the general store, and no one spoke English. My great-grandfather's name was Thor Thorson. Another was a Nelson, so maybe we're related.
As for food, I'm thinking you're lucky because you didn't mention lutefisk which is basically dried cod which is boiled until it's fish jelly... with bones in it!
I grew up in Berkeley California because my dad was a Lutheran minister (duh!) and got a calling out there to be the Campus Minister at UC Berkeley in the '60's and 70's.... they were exciting times.

Now I'm off to the pool to do those catch-up drills!

Mary

PS: Norwegians are so smart, we even tell jokes about ourselves, like:

"Mama, I have da biggest feet in da third grade. Is dat becoss I'm Norvegian?"
"No, it's because you're NINETEEN."

craiglll@yahoo.com
June 6th, 2005, 01:08 PM
Mary,

My grandmother was born in Wisconsin when her father was there to work on one of his uncle's farms. Do you know where in Norway youor family is from. My great grandmother was born in Oslo. My great grandfather was born in Gran Matiland (it is a town on a highland fjord). Their housekeeper, Ruth, was born on a farm up very north. She was sent to work for my great grandfather to raise my grandmother because she "was too ugly to get married" every one said. She spoke a dialect of Norwegian htat is said to now be dead. Many linguists believe that in those valley, farming communities Norwefgian broke off from Swedish.

Were you brought up LCA or Missouri Synod. We were LCA. My Swedish grandparents were one of the original families who started the church. Very LCA. At the church in Clermont, IA, they used a song board. Once I asked my mom why they used one & we didn't have one in the church in Galesburg. She told me that it was because there were so many people who only spoke Norwegian in Clermont that was the only way they could follow the service. I didn't occur to me until I was in high school that if they couldn't follow the English-printed order of confession, they wouldn't be able to read the service anyway. So what did it matter!

When we were in Iowa, we couldn't watch TV or listen to the radio on Sundays. My great grandfather wouldn't allow it. We would sneak over to my grandmother's cousins house (she was related to both of them but they weren't related to each other) there we could listen to the Cubs onthe radio. My great grandfather was so ole that if wqe had turned onthe TV or a radio he wouldn't have been able to do anything about it. One thing great about Scandinavian immigrants is how important sports were to them. Norwegians in Iowa are very much responsible for that state having had great women's programs for over one hundred years.

Do you still have any relatives in Norway? I have several who are named Liervik. Leirvik is sort of the Norwegian Johnson. They live mostly around Oslo. Oslo is one of the most beautiful cities inthe world. I had two cousins who were ski jumpers. I think both participated in the Olympics. They were absolutely crazy but extremely intense. Can you imagine jumping off of a ski jump?

One thing so great about threads is if people don't want to read this, they don't have to!

Maryyyyyy
June 6th, 2005, 01:41 PM
OK, so here we go! (since you gave me permission to go off topic and all!)...

My mom's family is from the Lyster Fjord which is off the Sogne Fjord (one of the most beautiful places on earth!) and the site of the 211 KM Cold Water Swim (http://www.asken.no/fjordswim/) record by Lewis Gordon Pugh. (got some swim stuff in there :D )...

We are LCA. Growing up in the super-liberal People's Republic of Berkeley my family wasn't as strict as yours sounds. Plus, we were pretty much alone out there since the rest of the family was in Wisconsin.

And speaking of women and sports, a distant (Norwegian, naturally) cousin of mine from Iowa was on the Women's Hockey Team that won the GOLD at the Olympics at Nagano 1998!

My dad's family comes from Lillehammer.... anyone remember that little town north of Oslo? He used to ski yump... yust dat he yumped one time too many and ended up in a tree... never yumped again!! Uff Da!!

It's funny being Norwegian in Italy. We're considered exotic.
:cool:

Mary

craiglll@yahoo.com
June 7th, 2005, 12:35 PM
It amazes me that Iowa and Illinios have always had very different attitudes towards women and sports. Illinois used to have women's basketball until the thirties becasue of lack of interest. The program was stopped then sarted up again for Title IX. My sisters were archers in the 60's. After they graduated the program was stopped.


Also, in Indiana, almost every high school seems to have a pool. No matter how small? The only way Galesburg got a pool was to have a community foundation started and have them conduct a money raising campaign. What is even odder about myu old high school is that the radicitonal sports used to rule. Now they do terribly but still get the most funding. At one time, galesubrg had gone to state basketball tournament more than any other high school in the state. Now it can't win a game. Yet the swimming teams are getting better & better! but no one pays any attention to them.

Mary, I always say that my family is a very strict, liberal lutheran family. Always Democrats, yet when I was a kid, during Lent I wasn't allowed to leave the house unless it was church or school related. For school it had to be really important!