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View Full Version : A Faster Pool than Fort Lauderdale



TheGoodSmith
June 1st, 2005, 05:32 PM
Who is familiar with the pool at the site of the next Short Course USMS Nationals in Coral Springs next year?


Question: Is it a fast pool?



John Smith

jim clemmons
June 1st, 2005, 05:45 PM
try this:


http://www.csscswim.com/facilties.html


Jim

jim clemmons
June 1st, 2005, 05:47 PM
I wonder who's gonna bring up the shade question?

Frank Thompson
June 2nd, 2005, 10:03 AM
I was at this pool about 8 years ago and it looked like they added another pool to the 50 meter pool they already had. As I remember it was a very nice facility with a lot of space. However, it seemed small compared to the great facility about 5 miles away which was called Mission Bay. Some of you might remember this place because they hosted the 1989 SC Nationals. Is a shame they had to close that facility because at the time it was one of the biggest facilities in the world. If I remember correctly the depth was about 5 feet at one end and gradually went deeper at the other end. I know there are some people out there that swim there now and could explain the facilities better now.

tjrpatt
June 2nd, 2005, 10:11 AM
That looks like a beautiful facility. I might have to go to Short Course Nationals next year. It is a shame that they can't build facilities like that in PA. WE have very few long course pool in these area.

mbmg3282
June 2nd, 2005, 10:52 AM
John,

The depth of the Coral Springs is similar to that of the Fort Lauderdale pool, however, I believe it is a faster pool. The gutters around the pool are much better. They are both deeper and wider so they should be able to handle much more water at one time. The facility also has wider lanes than the Fort Lauderdale pool. There are 20 rather than 22 lanes in the pool. We will be competing in 16 of them - leaving the 1st and 10th empty on each side.

Jim,

As for the shade, there are a number of changes coming in the next year. Along the side of the 50 meter pool, there have scheduled the installation of permanent bleachers with shade. This should be enough to hold 750 people. Around the other side of the pool (the side with the buildings) there is already some permanent shade. They are planning to double that amount this year. This project has already started actually. In other areas, they will be putting up tents for swimmers and teams to use. I expect the majority of the shade to allow you to be able to sit right around the pool.

In terms of warm down space, the facility has a 25-yard 6 lane diving well, a 25-yard 10 lane training pool and a 25-yard 3 lane teaching pool.

Also of note, the tennis center is 30 yards away from the competition pool. It will have beer on tap during the meet. This should make for some happy swimmers towards the end of each day.

Rob Copeland
June 2nd, 2005, 11:11 AM
Yes, but will Coral Springs be graced with the Ft Lauderdale official meet announcer? I hear this man single handedly is responsible for most of the fast swims, shaming many a swimmer into going faster just to limit the amount of time of the verbal abuse. At least thatís what I understand form our webmaster.

matysekj
June 2nd, 2005, 11:39 AM
I can only wish that his abuse would have shamed me into swimming faster. The good thing is that no matter how poorly I swim at nationals, Mark is certain to announce at least one of my swims as a lifetime best.

Let's just hope the announcer's stand is nowhere near the bar at Coral Springs. You haven't heard anything until you've heard him with a few adult beverages under his belt.

Peter Cruise
June 2nd, 2005, 02:04 PM
Beer on tap? Tall Paul will be there...beware fast pools, John; they might cause you to take a distance race too fast...

knelson
June 2nd, 2005, 03:43 PM
Originally posted by mbmg3282
Also of note, the tennis center is 30 yards away from the competition pool. It will have beer on tap during the meet. This should make for some happy swimmers towards the end of each day.

Whadya mean end of the day? That could make me happy all day :)

Do Gold Medal sponsors get free beer? OK, maybe not such a good idea.

TheGoodSmith
June 2nd, 2005, 03:58 PM
Dear Mr. Cruise,

I can assure you I will NOT be swimming the 500 freestyle next year........ end of discussion. I definitely was suffering from some sort of mental virus when I agreed to take that one one.


Dear Mr. Gill,

It's good to see that our bitching and complaining about shade conditions will result in positive change during next years meet in Coral Springs. (Squeaky wheel gets the grease again)

As far as the tennis courts and beer is concerned. This could be beneficial as Mr. Patton won't be able to resist a cold one in such close proximity. It may take the edge off of him in the 50 fly.

aquageek
June 2nd, 2005, 04:54 PM
Originally posted by mbmg3282
lso of note, the tennis center is 30 yards away from the competition pool. It will have beer on tap during the meet. This should make for some happy swimmers towards the end of each day.

This could be a deciding factor for me.

michaelmoore
June 2nd, 2005, 08:29 PM
Adult beverages at swimming meets? I thought there was only beer after water polo games - I may have to do more planning.

Hmm maybe beer at Worlds. or maybe wine (we are talking California).

michael

knelson
June 2nd, 2005, 11:33 PM
Originally posted by michaelmoore
Hmm maybe beer at Worlds. or maybe wine (we are talking California).

You wouldn't want to offend anyone, Michael. Beer AND wine is the way to go.

Tom Ellison
June 3rd, 2005, 10:22 AM
"or maybe wine (we are talking California)."

Ah, wouldn't that be "hooch" out there on the left bank?

Just kidding.....:)

Paul Smith
June 4th, 2005, 10:34 AM
Fast pool, shade, bleachers, sunshine, beer nearby, Mark Gill (USMS Metrosexual of the year) announcing, Bobby drinking beer in between events, small team/large team/ super club debates held post meet, beaches nearby, Evil-Good-Longhorn tattoed Smith reuniting is 5 and under diaper relay, Trip & Jack beating the hell out of each other every race, Nadine's smile at very turn!

People, end of all debates as of right now...........get organized and get your people to the meet next year.

I propose we have a "reverse" point system that "punishes" teams for not brining a certain percentage of their team......beer would be the fine.

Last but not least, I think its time we added an event at the meet. After Saturdays races we clear out lane lines and set up a couple of inner tube water polo courses. Team Colorado challenges Kerry & Team WCM to the first match!

aquageek
June 4th, 2005, 11:51 AM
Paul:

Are you defining super team based on size or beer drinking ability? I know some folks are opposed to super beer drinking teams. Please publish guidelines on this.

TheGoodSmith
June 6th, 2005, 11:59 AM
Hey, I take offense to that last comment. My old "diaper" relay got 6th place !


A beer relay would be a better idea at the end of Masters Nationals. I think Jim Mongtobery, Bobby Patten, Robert Killeen and The Evil Smith could challenge just about anyone...... at any age.


John Smith

Tom Ellison
June 6th, 2005, 12:28 PM
Gosh John, knowing Bobby Patton and Jim Montgomery as I do, you could put those two on a relay with two dead guys and they'd still win!

Paul Smith
June 6th, 2005, 04:18 PM
Magnus,
Interesting question, we may also need to take into account early/late bloomer drinkers because that would be two VERY distinct categories.

Also, the whole "cydesdale" (read Mike Shaffer) classification may come into play, although stick man Bobby kinda challenges that old stereotype.

This will take some thought........I'm open to suggestions?

aquageek
June 6th, 2005, 04:59 PM
Clydesdale - good point, didn't even consider that aspect. A super team of super clydesdales could throw the whole meet into a tailspin.

I'm known some late bloomers to partying who I just assume not go out with anymore for liver logevity reasons. A late blooming Clydesdale could be a force to be reckoned with.

TheGoodSmith
June 6th, 2005, 06:17 PM
Paul,

Since you go to the USMS national meetings, you propose this beer relay thing. If they love it, tell 'em I thought of it. If they hate it and throw you out of Masters swimming altogether, it was your idea. I want no part of it. No!... better yet, blame it on Mark Gill. He's our new scape goat for disasters such as these on the USMS forum now.

Hey,

If the beer relay doesn't pan out, I say we do a college alumni relay instead after the meet. Me, Clay Britt, John Kenny and Ande Raz (Texas Longhorns) will punish Bobby, Weissman, Saeger and his SMU Pigmy Horses.


John Smith

Paul Smith
June 6th, 2005, 06:30 PM
JS, either way doesn't matter because they all hate you......by the way, didn't you like me bringing Bill by to meet you in FL!! I guarantee that the pi he took will not be a flattering one after you took a shot at him in this forum!

As fr the alum relay, UCSB wants a piece of that action. With Shaf, Schroeder, myself & Lezak we would beat you ugly Texans swimming sidestroke!

PS: No way are you getting Saeger to come to FL, better change getting Geoff!

Tom Ellison
June 7th, 2005, 10:16 AM
"we would beat you ugly Texans swimming sidestroke!"

Wow, knowing those Texans as I do...I'd say that was a serious,
"All hat, no cattle" statement.....
;)

newmastersswimmer
June 7th, 2005, 10:51 AM
Goodsmith,

Since you mentioned the SMU team (and bringing Saeger in).....why don't you track down Steve Lundquist while your at it?.....I heard a few rumors that he once could down a beer or two back in the day.


Newmastersswimmer

TheGoodSmith
June 7th, 2005, 05:05 PM
For cripes sake, I am NOT going to contribute to the speed of the enemy. Bobby can go recruit his own SMU team. I'll try and find my own Texas boozers that still swim.

Actually, at this point in life..... Saeger is the one to have on your relay team. He has aged well and is the fastest 40-44 freestyler in the world....... by far.


John Smith

Phil Arcuni
June 7th, 2005, 08:06 PM
Man, am I confused. Isn't SMU in Texas, and doesn't that mean that SMU == Texas?

coastal boy

TheGoodSmith
June 8th, 2005, 10:43 AM
Dude,

We need to have a Texas 101 class on rivalries.

Texas.... the real Univ. of Texas
Texas A&M..... the jealous maroon headed step child
SMU....... little spoiled rich school in Dallas


Many moons ago, Texas and SMU had a huge rivalry in swimming. The Southwest conference was ruled by the two schools for decades.

Lundquist = SMU = Dallas

Texas = UT = Austin

It's like matter and antimatter. You don't want to mix the two together........... ever.

Tom Ellison
June 8th, 2005, 10:48 AM
Yea, yea. yea. but they are all Texans!:)

TheGoodSmith
June 8th, 2005, 11:15 AM
I strongly suggest you don't confuse the issue while you are in the state of Texas.... :-)


John Smith

aquageek
June 8th, 2005, 11:19 AM
I always heard you went to A&M or UT if you couldn't get into SMU.

Tom Ellison
June 8th, 2005, 12:44 PM
I lived in texas for over 15 years...and that alone confused the issue.....;)

newmastersswimmer
June 8th, 2005, 01:21 PM
I'll try and find my own Texas boozers that still swim.
originally posted by Mr. GoodSmith


Isn't the phrase "Texas boozers" a bit of a redundancy?...(At least it seems that way to a native Texan like me)

I remember going to watch the Dallas Morning News meet when I was a Junior (I believe?) in high school....back when SMU was very very fast (Ricardo Prado, Ludquist, I believe Seager was there but I can't swear on it?)....Anyway, I was most impressed with Lundquist because he showed such versatility....He "seemed" to swim almost everything and still win....freestyle events, butterfly events, breastroke, IM's...relays....He was a machine....I guess Mr. GoodSmith was probably there at the meet too as a Freshman maybe? ...(but I don't recall it).....It was an excellent meet to watch...very entertaining. The main reason I suggested Lundquist though was not b/c of the swimming part....I was thinking more along the lines of the beer drinking (and general partying) abilities when I suggested him....(based on rumors only though!)


Newmastersswimmer

p.s. A couple of highschool teammates of mine went on recruiting trips to SMU and saw Lundquist in action first hand.....I guess that's where a lot of the rumors may have come from.

craiglll@yahoo.com
June 8th, 2005, 01:28 PM
How do Rice & TCU fit into the hierarchy of Texas schools? My neice's husband got his Ph. d. at TCU. And what aboput that wonderful school Texas Tech.?

Tom Ellison
June 8th, 2005, 01:59 PM
TCU has had some very good swimmers....and has a good swim program....

newmastersswimmer
June 8th, 2005, 02:27 PM
It's like matter and antimatter. You don't want to mix the two together........... ever originally posted by Mr. GoodSmith


O.k......I have to admit that I am a little suprised by that quote coming from a U.T. alum.....(maybe an SMU alum or an alum of TCU, or Univ. of Dallas perhaps....but a U.T. alum??)

And to make it more impressive it was a reply message to Mr. Arcuni (one of our resident USMS particle physicists).....

Either you've been watching to much Star Trek growing up.....or you're getting help from some one....right?


Newmastersswimmer

TheGoodSmith
June 8th, 2005, 05:44 PM
First of all, just because I know that the name of grain on the Star Trek episode "The Trouble with Tribbles" was called QUADROTRITICALY..... does not mean I am a Treky or that my scientific information is either flawed or outdated.

Secondly, yes, I was at the first and several of the subsequent Dallas Morning News Invitiational in the early 80s. That was an interesting and loud meet to say the least.

Thirdly, please don't mention the words "Rice" and "TCU" in the same breath as the word "swimming" on this forum.


John Smith

newmastersswimmer
June 8th, 2005, 06:51 PM
First of all, just because I know that the name of grain on the Star Trek episode "The Trouble with Tribbles" was called QUADROTRITICALY..... does not mean I am a Treky or that my scientific information is either flawed or outdated.
posted by Mr. GoodSmith


I hate to burst your Treky bubble there Mr. GoodSmith....but I'm afraid you've already given "flawed" Scientific Info.....(sorry ...I know...I'm overly picky perhaps ...please forgive!)


When you said that matter and antimatter should never be mixed under any circumstances.......Actually you are technically wrong from "both" a Scientific standpoint as well as a fictional (Treky) standpoint.......Starting with the Treky standpoint: If your statement were in fact true, then how did the Enterprise ever reach warp speeds?

From a Scientific Standpoint: Small amounts of antimatter have already been created "and" mixed with small amounts of matter in a controlled laboratory setting (Check with Phil Arcuni...or Mattson to back me up on this one)......I know that I am being a little unreasonable to call you on this one.....but when I think of the fact that you're JS ...a U.T. alum....and you like to dish a little flack out every once in a while....well then I guess my complaint is reasonably justified then.....sorry....please don't take any offense!

newmastersswimmer

Phil Arcuni
June 9th, 2005, 01:26 AM
You know, I am not a total ignoramous when it comes to Texas. I once visited UT. It was god awful hot, flatter than a skillet, and surrounded by rusted oil rigs. The people were hard to understand, and ate steak on butcher paper with nothing but sharp knives.

Or maybe that was Lubbock . . . ? (It is hard to keep these places straight)

I did not see a pool.

TheGoodSmith
June 9th, 2005, 12:06 PM
The next time I come across some Dilitheum Crystals, I will test your hypothesis.

ande
June 9th, 2005, 12:17 PM
No sometimes Texas is HOTTER THAN THE HINGES ON THE GATES OF HELL and so are many of it's women. Texas is quite a diverse state. You can see a little bit of everything in the greatest state god ever made. Including some really nice swimming pools.

ande


Originally posted by Phil Arcuni
You know, I am not a total ignoramous when it comes to Texas. I once visited UT. It was god awful hot, flatter than a skillet, and surrounded by rusted oil rigs. The people were hard to understand, and ate steak on butcher paper with nothing but sharp knives.

Or maybe that was Lubbock . . . ? (It is hard to keep these places straight)

I did not see a pool.

newmastersswimmer
June 9th, 2005, 04:29 PM
You can see a little bit of everything in the greatest state god ever made. posted by Ande


Hmm??....I didn't know that Mr. GoodSmith actually "made" Texas??....(j/k of course!!)

Actually there is a whole lot of things that you "CAN'T" see in the woderful state of Texas (which I know b/c I lived there most of my life and then moved to the beatiful State of Tennessee afterwards!!)....Like:

1) Leaves that turn another color (other than brown) during Autumn.

2) Many varieties of flowering trees in the Spring (such as White and Pink Dogwoods, Tulip Magnolias, Redbuds, Bradford Pear Trees, and Cherry Trees just to name a few).

3) "Real" mountains....and covered in wild flowers of every kind during the Spring.

4) Just about anything that one normally associates to any one of the 3 "supposedly separate" non-summer seasons.

5) A decent College football team (such as the "real" U.T.....i.e. The Proud Volunteers!)

and the list goes on and on......

I guess you have to actually travel outside the state of Texas to find these things out??

Newmastersswimmer

SwiminONandON
June 9th, 2005, 04:36 PM
Alright I have no reason to get involved in this but ... to me the real UT is Texas and I grew far closer to TN. And I have faith that the Longhorns could kick the Vols booties.

I also prefer summer to last year round. No need for any other season.

Tom Ellison
June 9th, 2005, 04:37 PM
2) Many varieties of flowering trees in the Spring (such as White and Pink Dogwoods, Tulip Magnolias, Redbuds, Bradford Pear Trees, and Cherry Trees just to name a few).

White and Pink Dogwoods bloom in Dallas quite a bit in spring....

3) "Real" mountains....and covered in wild flowers of every kind during the Spring.

The mountains in the Big Bend are beautiful........

4) Just about anything that one normally associates to any one of the 3 "supposedly separate" non-summer seasons.

Out in west Texas around Post or Gail is gets very cold in the winter...HOT like hell in the summer...with beautiful fall and spring times.....

newmastersswimmer
June 9th, 2005, 04:49 PM
Moose Man,

The key word about the flowering trees statement is "Variety"...notice that pink and white dogwoods only lead off a long list of flowering trees out here in TN......As far as the Big Bend goes.....I did say "real" mountains right?......and as far as West Texas goes.....Hmm??....Never been there so I can't really refute or support that one (So I'll edit my last posting to exclude West Texas.....that still leaves enough of Texas to engulf at least 3 or 4 of the more moderately sized other states)


Heather......Are you sure you haven't had those three drinks today already (you mentioned on the NSR site??)....Longhorns beating the VOls in football??......Did you catch the Cotton Bowl last year by chance???....The team that almost beat Texas (i.e. the maroon headed Step Childs of Texas as GoodSmith put it) got there butts severly wiped by the Vols....shows how tough the Big 12 really is eh??


newmastersswimmer

Tom Ellison
June 9th, 2005, 05:08 PM
Jimmy, Jimmy....don't judge a GREAT state like Texas's football programs on a few bad years....If we look back over the past few decades....Texas has produced some gas house football teams...
As to the mountains....gosh, in TN they are simply hill billy hills compaired to the Big Bend....;) Just kidding of coarse....

ande
June 9th, 2005, 05:10 PM
dear jim,

allow me to address the points you made in your Tennessee list.

ande

1) Leaves that turn another color (other than brown) during Autumn.
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/park/lostmap/

2) Many varieties of flowering trees in the Spring (such as White and Pink Dogwoods, Tulip Magnolias, Redbuds, Bradford Pear Trees, and Cherry Trees just to name a few).
~~~~> Texas has many blooming trees

3) "Real" mountains....and covered in wild flowers of every kind during the Spring.
http://www.nps.gov/bibe/
http://www.nps.gov/gumo/
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/park/davis/
http://www.tpwd.state.tx.us/park/franklin/


4) Just about anything that one normally associates to any one of the 3 "supposedly separate" non-summer seasons.
~~~> I think the problem might be that you lived near Houston

5) A decent College football team (such as the "real" U.T.....i.e. The Proud Volunteers!)
~~~> UT Austin won the ROSE BOWL last year
how'd things go for for the VOLS

texas also has a pretty decent swimming pool in austin and some pretty OK swimmers as well.

Ande



Originally posted by newmastersswimmer
You can see a little bit of everything in the greatest state god ever made. posted by Ande


Hmm??....I didn't know that Mr. GoodSmith actually "made" Texas??....(j/k of course!!)

Actually there is a whole lot of things that you "CAN'T" see in the woderful state of Texas (which I know b/c I lived there most of my life and then moved to the beatiful State of Tennessee afterwards!!)....Like:

1) Leaves that turn another color (other than brown) during Autumn.

2) Many varieties of flowering trees in the Spring (such as White and Pink Dogwoods, Tulip Magnolias, Redbuds, Bradford Pear Trees, and Cherry Trees just to name a few).

3) "Real" mountains....and covered in wild flowers of every kind during the Spring.

4) Just about anything that one normally associates to any one of the 3 "supposedly separate" non-summer seasons.

5) A decent College football team (such as the "real" U.T.....i.e. The Proud Volunteers!)

and the list goes on and on......

I guess you have to actually travel outside the state of Texas to find these things out??

Newmastersswimmer

SwiminONandON
June 9th, 2005, 05:14 PM
I've actually heard that they inject steroids into the water in Austin, that's why all the swimmers are so fast ... KIDDING!

hmmm ... Texas swimmers ....

Tom Ellison
June 9th, 2005, 05:29 PM
Hey Jim:
Gosh, with over 40 peaks or summits having elevations higher then TN's highest.....I'd say Texas has this one hands down...


Texas Highest Named Summits Feature Name Elevation County Latitude Longitude Map
Guadalupe Peak 8749 Culberson 315328N 1045136W Guadalupe Peak
Bush Mountain 8631 Culberson 315546N 1045247W P X Flat
Shumard Peak 8615 Culberson 315427N 1045226W Guadalupe Peak
Bartlett Peak 8508 Culberson 315504N 1045253W P X Flat
Baldy Peak 8378 Jeff Davis 303807N 1041022W Mount Livermore
Hunter Peak 8368 Culberson 315448N 1044947W Guadalupe Peak
Livermore, Mount 8206 Jeff Davis 303759N 1041001W Mount Livermore
Capitan, El 8085 Culberson 315238N 1045127W Guadalupe Peak
Lost Peak 7830 Culberson 315812N 1045116W Guadalupe Peak
Emory Peak 7825 Brewster 291444N 1031812W Emory Peak
Brooks Mountain 7780 Jeff Davis 303800N 1041223W Mount Livermore
Chinati Peak 7728 Presidio 295711N 1042838W Chinati Peak
Pine Peak 7710 Jeff Davis 303918N 1040648W Mount Locke
Sawtooth Mountain 7686 Jeff Davis 304106N 1041339W Mount Livermore
Townsend Point 7580 Brewster 291417N 1031725W Emory Peak
Black Mountain 7544 Jeff Davis 304321N 1035852W Casket Mountain
Lost Mine Peak 7535 Brewster 291632N 1031528W The Basin
Eagle Peak 7484 Hudspeth 305516N 1050505W Eagle Mountains NE
Toll Mountain 7415 Brewster 291516N 1031725W The Basin
Casa Grande Peak 7325 Brewster 291603N 1031711W The Basin
Blue Mountain 7286 Jeff Davis 303354N 1040120W Blue Mountain
Pine Mesa 7285 Jeff Davis 303632N 1041018W Paradise Mountain
Brown Mountain 7273 Jeff Davis 304005N 1040531W Mount Locke
Parda, Sierra 7270 Presidio 295650N 1043149W Sierra Parda
Bear Mountain 7256 Jeff Davis 304030N 1041504W El Muerto Peak
McDaniel Mountain 7235 Jeff Davis 304147N 1041002W Mount Livermore
North Franklin Mountain 7192 El Paso 315410N 1062936W North Franklin Mountain
Crown Mountain 7010 Brewster 291537N 1031534W The Basin
San Antonio Mountain 6998 Hudspeth 315941N 1053255W Sixteen Mountains
Brown Mountain 6983 Jeff Davis 303351N 1040942W Paradise Mountain
Spring Mountain 6966 Jeff Davis 304308N 1040023W Mount Locke
Geronimo Mountain 6963 Jeff Davis 304344N 1041430W Mount Livermore
Cutoff Mountain 6953 Hudspeth 315940N 1045506W P X Flat
Anthonys Nose 6927 El Paso 315734N 1062953W North Franklin Mountain
Ward Mountain 6925 Brewster 291525N 1032005W The Basin
Twin Mountains 6895 Presidio 302507N 1034936W Mitre Peak
Pulliam Peak 6870 Brewster 291736N 1031738W The Basin
Haleys Peak 6868 Brewster 301031N 1033947W Cathedral Mountain
Guide Peak 6842 Jeff Davis 304157N 1040023W Mount Locke
Cathedral Mountain 6800 Brewster 301046N 1033941W Cathedral Mountain
Cerro Alto Mountain 6787 Hudspeth 315643N 1055810W Cerro Alto Mountain
Spring Mountain 6752 Jeff Davis 304210N 1041949W El Muerto Peak
White Mountain 6742 Jeff Davis 303329N 1041023W Paradise Mountain
Vernon Bailey Peak 6670 Brewster 291701N 1031912W The Basin
Coyote Peak 6663 Culberson 315940N 1045340W P X Flat


Robbers Roost Mountain 6652 Jeff Davis 304641N 1040719W Friend Mountain

TN

1 Clingmans Dome, TN/NC 6,643 Forney Ridge Sevier, TN / Swain, NC 35.5628 -83.4986 Clingmans Dome

:D

newmastersswimmer
June 9th, 2005, 05:43 PM
Moose Man (MM for short)

O.k. so there may be a "few" sort of mountains in Texas.....Couldn't produce a larger list to support your point eh??


Ande,

I thought I pointed out the absolute beating the Vols laid on the supposedly tough Texas A&M team in the Cotton Bowl last year.....Who did Texas "barely" beat in the Rose Bowl?....I can't remember off hand...but it was probably one of those severely overrated Big 10 schools?


newmastersswimmer

SwiminONandON
June 9th, 2005, 05:53 PM
Alright no knocking the big ten ... I love how the big ten is always so overrated but they seem to prove themselves time and again. They beat Michigan, and as a Buckeye I applaud that.

Ohio State was the National champ in 02-03, but I guess they were probably overrated, too, huh?

ande
June 9th, 2005, 06:05 PM
a win is a win
but let's write a little about swimming before this thread gets closed

What's the U. Tennessee's NCAA swimming record versus UT Austin's?
need I write more?

Ande



Originally posted by newmastersswimmer
Moose Man (MM for short)

O.k. so there may be a "few" sort of mountains in Texas.....Couldn't produce a larger list to support your point eh??

Ande,

I thought I pointed out the absolute beating the Vols laid on the supposedly tough Texas A&M team in the Cotton Bowl last year.....Who did Texas "barely" beat in the Rose Bowl?....I can't remember off hand...but it was probably one of those severely overrated Big 10 schools?


newmastersswimmer

newmastersswimmer
June 9th, 2005, 06:05 PM
Ohio State was the National champ in 02-03, but I guess they were probably overrated, too, huh? posted by SwiminOnandOn


Nice to see that you finally sobered up after those few drinks earlier!


newmastersswimmer

p.s. what happened last time Ohio State played the Vols in a bowl game?....and the last time the Vols played Michigan in a bowl game?.....it wasn't that long ago (both within the last 8 years or so I believe?)....I was at the "real" UT when both of those bowl games happened.

newmastersswimmer
June 9th, 2005, 06:11 PM
What's the U. Tennessee's NCAA swimming record versus UT Austin's? posted by Ande Razzzzz


It always comes back to swimming for you Texicans doesn't it?.....Well that's one issue I can't argue with I suppose....but how bout those SMU Mustangs back in the Lundquist days eh??.....Thos spoiled little rich kids had UT's number didn't they??


Newmastersswimmer

ande
June 9th, 2005, 06:29 PM
well this is a swimming board

Unfortunately for Steve and by some miracle, UT won all the conference meets in all the years that Steve Lundquist attended SMU. Though Steve owned the breastrokes, did great in the IM, made the Olympic team in the 100 fly and swam a heck of a 100 free leg on SMU's 4 x 100 free relay. I think we scored higher at NCAA's at than SMU did each of those years. Though there was quite a long stretch when SMU beat UT at conference but SMU's streak ended when Eddie came to Texas and a few of his transfers gained eligibility in 1980. I think 1979 was Eddies first year at UT and SMU's last year to win conference. When SMU won, they'd scream out each previous year they had won then add the new year to the list.

Now I'm not sure if SMU could out party UT, but SMU was famous for their annual L.A.G.N.A.F. party.

Ande


Originally posted by newmastersswimmer
What's the U. Tennessee's NCAA swimming record versus UT Austin's? posted by Ande Razzzzz
It always comes back to swimming for you Texicans doesn't it?.....Well that's one issue I can't argue with I suppose....but how bout those SMU Mustangs back in the Lundquist days eh??.....Thos spoiled little rich kids had UT's number didn't they??


Newmastersswimmer

newmastersswimmer
June 9th, 2005, 09:27 PM
Are you 100% sure about all of that?....I was almost certain that SMU won that first Dallas Morning News Invitational (and I was at the meet??).....And I guess I have forgotten a lot from those days (it's was a bit foggy back then for some reason??).....but I thought SMU actually won the National Championships one of those Lundquist years......Didn't they win like 2 or 3 out of the 4 relays at NCAA's one year with Lundquist on each of them?.......I have been known to get my facts confused though when going back that far....Don't know what killed off all those memory cells?


Newmastersswimmer

p.s.....Sorry I misread your posting...I thought you included all head to head matchups....but you said Conference Championships and NCAA's only........but not all the big meets though right?...and r you 100% sure about NCAA's?

knelson
June 10th, 2005, 02:05 AM
Originally posted by newmastersswimmer
but I thought SMU actually won the National Championships one of those Lundquist years......Didn't they win like 2 or 3 out of the 4 relays at NCAA's one year with Lundquist on each of them?

The closest they came was a second place finish in 1983 behind Florida. It was close, though, 238-227. It looks like SMU only won the 200 medley relay, though. Also Lunk didn't win the 200 breast that year.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/records/winter_champs_records_book/2003/2003WinterChampsRecords.pdf

newmastersswimmer
June 10th, 2005, 08:49 AM
The closest they came was a second place finish in 1983 behind Florida. It was close, though, 238-227. It looks like SMU only won the 200 medley relay, though. Also Lunk didn't win the 200 breast that year. originally posted by Knelson


So even though Texas won all the Conference titles during the Lundquist era, ....looks like SMU did rank higher at NCAA's over Texas at least one of those years then......I'm sure that both teams were fairly evely matched back then and both were top 5 Nationally each of those years as well......There was a guy who swam IM from Texas that was also very fast (and he and Lundquist would go back and forth breaking each other's National record .....I think his name was Barrett maybe? (was it Bill Barrett ?).....Anyway, I'm too lazy to look it up on google I guess.


Newmastersswimmer

newmastersswimmer
June 10th, 2005, 09:10 AM
Sorry.....I looked on google and Bill Barrett swam for UCLA not Texas.....so I'm thinking of someone else then.....Anyway, I thought Texas had an IMer who was on par with Lundquist back then .....but if so, I can't recall who it was......It's hard to keep track of all those fast swimmers in Texas I suppose......I can't take that away from the state of Texas....but I'll never give up my position that Tennessee is superior in football......We Tennesseans have to have something over Texas now!!


newmastersswimmer

mattson
June 10th, 2005, 09:16 AM
Originally posted by TheGoodSmith
Dude,

It's like matter and antimatter. You don't want to mix the two together........... ever.

Gahh, I missed my chance to make an on-topic posting! (Or is the topic Texas rivalries? Florida pools? :p )

You are welcome to check out the Fermilab web site (http://www.fnal.gov/pub/inquiring/index.html) and point out an appropriate place for us to add, "Wrongly colliding protons and anit-protons for over 30 years." :)

On the other hand, if you meant that we should never mix matter, anti-matter, fire ants, and politicians (the aborted SSC project in Texas in the early '90s), then you are absolutely right.

kristilynn
June 10th, 2005, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by newmastersswimmer
Moose Man,

As far as the Big Bend goes.....I did say "real" mountains right?......and as far as West Texas goes.....Hmm??....Never been there so I can't really refute or support that one (So I'll edit my last posting to exclude West Texas.....that still leaves enough of Texas to engulf at least 3 or 4 of the more moderately sized other states)
newmastersswimmer

Okay, like Heather (or is it Keather?) I have no reason to get involved as I have nothing against either Texas or Tennessee. But face up to facts -- neither of your states have mountains, hills perhaps, but MOUNTAINS? No, sorry. Although I don't doubt that your hills are very lovely when they are covered in spring flowers.

Frank Thompson
June 10th, 2005, 11:17 AM
Jim:

I think the guy you are thinking about is Scott Spann who I believe swam for Texas for 2 years after transfering from Auburn. I believe he was 2nd in the 200 IM behind Bruce Furnis but I believe he was swimming for Auburn then.

SMU pretty much dominated Texas up until 1980. I believe that year was the changing of the guard. Texas being to build with swimmers like Clay Britt, Kris Kirchner, William Paulas, Scott Spann, and others and I don't think SMU beat them in a dual meet or conference meet once these swimmers came on board and they started to recruit around this base. I also believe that the Texas Swim Center was built in the early 80's and this helped with their recruiting efforts along with having a proven coach like Eddie Reese.

I do remember SMU being a very good swim program in the late 60's and early 70's. They came to Univ. of Michigan in 1969/1970 period and had the longest dual meet win streak at like 80 in the country and Michigan beat them by 1 point in that dual meet. I remember it well because Larry Driver was the Michigan HS State Champion in the 100 Breast in 1969 and 4th in the nation behind B. Job, T. Bruce, and S. Issak and he swam for SMU. They had some great swimmers on that team like Fred Schlicher, Charley Minder, Ronnie Mills, and the late great Jerry Heindrich. I beleive that was there best team until the one that got 2nd in 1983 at the NCAA Championship.

Tom Ellison
June 10th, 2005, 11:35 AM
The Moose Man has to tell it like it is....and Jim the facts are the facts...!

TN did have one heck of a swim program back then...and...if my old Moose memory is not going to far south...I believe TN was Nat. Champs in swimming in the early 80's. Marc Forman was a 200 back SCM WR holder and swam on TN's Nat. Championship team along with some other very fast swimmers.....No one can take anything away from TN...but in the long run....TX & SMU ruled in those days.....

Frank Thompson
June 10th, 2005, 11:47 AM
Tom:

You are right that TN had great teams. They won the 1978 NCAA Championships and were favored to win in 1979 but were 2nd. I think those were the best finishes they ever had. I remember Marc Forman and Paul Carter who is swimming very well now in USMS were on those teams. I still think that Tennessee had the 3 best sprinters in NCAA history from the same school during a 10 period. Those sprinters were David Egar, John Trembly, and Andy Cohen.

newmastersswimmer
June 10th, 2005, 12:12 PM
You are right that TN had great teams. They won the 1978 NCAA Championships and were favored to win in 1979 but were 2nd. I think those were the best finishes they ever had. I remember Marc Forman and Paul Carter who is swimming very well now in USMS were on those teams. I still think that Tennessee had the 3 best sprinters in NCAA history from the same school during a 10 period. Those sprinters were David Egar, John Trembly, and Andy Cohen. originally posted by Frank Thompson


I actually have had the pleasure of meeting John Trembly on several occaissions while I was residing at U.T. (...John was the head coach of the Vol Swim Team while I was in Grad School there from 1995 - 2001....and may still be the head coach?).....He seems like a very cool guy!


And MM,

The Moose Man has to tell it like it is....and Jim the facts are the facts...! posted by the moose man in relation to his meager list of Texas mountains I suppose??

I have to agree kristilynn on this one for the most part.....the only difference is that our "hillbilly hills" (as you so eloquently put it) actually have "lots" of beautifyul wild flowers covering them in the Spring....Look at those "lame" photos Ande posted earlier of the Texas "desolate and flowerless" excuse for hills...LOL!!.....The facts are the facts all right...that's really what I meant by "real" mountains.....What is it with Texicans thinking everything is measured by "size"??.....You and your oversized 10 billion gallon Hats, giant belt buckles, and oversized hood ornaments.....poor Texicans can't understand any other measure of interest but size!!


newmastersswimmer

Tom Ellison
June 10th, 2005, 12:19 PM
The AMOUNT matters as well Jim...given that Texas has over 40 peaks higher the TN....

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....I think the mountains in W. Texas are beautiful.....as much so as TN, ID or anywhere else...Now, are they blooming? Na....they are very rugged...but like Texans...that rugged look equates to beauty...as in beautiful big belt buckles....big trucks....big watches....huge land....big hats....I could go on and on...but you get my point....Their is a reason they call it the United States of Texas.....;)

Tom Ellison
June 10th, 2005, 12:21 PM
Frank....again my memory may be on the slide...and I do not know how to spell their names....but, I remember two other TN swimmers that were very, very fast back then...Buna and Rendall?

newmastersswimmer
June 10th, 2005, 12:47 PM
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder....I think the mountains in W. Texas are beautiful.....as much so as TN, ID or anywhere else...Now, are they blooming? Na....they are very rugged...but like Texans...that rugged look equates to beauty...as in beautiful big belt buckles....big trucks....big watches....huge land....big hats....I could go on and on...but you get my point....Their is a reason they call it the United States of Texas..... posted by MM


You forgot to include Big Texas size Egos as well!! (Ala GoodSmith and his reg tag UT posse of Masters swimmers...lol...no offense right Mr. GoodSmith, ...and Ande et al...you are still lurking out there somewhere....I mean God is omnipotent right??)


Newmastersswimmer

Howard
June 10th, 2005, 12:49 PM
Ebuna. He's done a little masters swimming as well. Swam at Nationals last year.

newmastersswimmer
June 10th, 2005, 01:27 PM
Texas being to build with swimmers like Clay Britt, Kris Kirchner, William Paulas, Scott Spann, and others posted by Frank Thompson


Also lets not forget Chris Rives as well.....I had the pleasure of having my butt served back to me on a silver platt back in highschool by Chris in the finals of the 100 fly and 200 IM at the Texas State Championships in 1981 (or maybe it was 1982??)!!


Newmastersswimmer


p.s. Chris swam for Memorial high school (in Houston) along with Masters swimming phenom Dean Putterman.....They won state in the year I am reffering to above with 4 swimmers in attendance (and one diver who only scored one point for them)....the other two swimmers were tjord Brink and Larry Craft......Chris was the most phenominal of the group though IMHO ...Although they were all fast as hell!

TheGoodSmith
June 10th, 2005, 01:31 PM
I will say this about Tennessee and their late 1970s program under "the man" ..... Ray Bussard. They totally dominated and changed sprint freestyle in their day. They totally stacked the 50 free finals of the NCAAs like no other team since.... including Auburn. It was an impressive feat to say the least.

His teams always had a lot of spirit..... some crazy initiation stories.... but a legendary past none the less.


As for big egos........... you must have a decent sized ego to properly swim the 50 free..... :-)


John Smith

Paul Smith
June 11th, 2005, 11:20 AM
Evil-Goodsmith..........that explains your winning the 50 (and 100/200) against Bobby in the "king of texas" bets last month.

So what does it take for Bobby (if not ego) to wax you in the 500/1000? Brains?

Phil Arcuni
June 11th, 2005, 11:49 PM
If you look at how Goodsmith paced the 1000, he either demonstrated *lots* of ego, or a remarkable *lack* of brains!

knelson
June 12th, 2005, 01:32 AM
Originally posted by Phil Arcuni
If you look at how Goodsmith paced the 1000, he either demonstrated *lots* of ego, or a remarkable *lack* of brains!

That's funny. I saw this swim and didn't realize I was watching TheGoodSmith (TM). I don't think you call that bad pacing. I think you call that a 200 for time followed by an 800 cool-down :)

Peter Cruise
June 12th, 2005, 02:14 PM
All I know is that when Goodsmith's 1000 splits were posted on the results site I finally understood the phrase "helpless with laughter", but I applaud his jam...

TheGoodSmith
June 13th, 2005, 10:49 AM
Life is about strategy........... negotiations..... positioning.

You take it out hard and go for the TV camera footage early in the race. After all, these first laps are the ones that always feel the best.... When it comes to the 1000 and the mile I say "Carpe Diem" people......... live for the moment.

A little 200 for time during the 1,000 keeps your foes on their toes. It give Mr. Gill food for his announcements as well.

Evil Smith..... if Bobby Patten doesn't have enough sense to stay OUT of the 500, mile and 200 fly, it is not my problem. No one cares about those foolish events (along with breastroke) anyway.


John Smith

Tom Ellison
June 13th, 2005, 10:55 AM
"Bobby Patten doesn't have enough sense to stay OUT of the 500, mile and 200 fly"

Bobby Patten was MADE for those events....and then some....

TheGoodSmith
June 13th, 2005, 11:21 AM
Agreed.

Jeff Commings
June 16th, 2005, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by TheGoodSmith
No one cares about those foolish events (along with breastroke) anyway.


John Smith

Those of us who go against you in the 100 IM do.

TheGoodSmith
June 20th, 2005, 01:10 PM
Mr. Commings..... even though my measly 53's for 100IM's are not sufficient to over power that strange stroke on the 3rd length, I have one ultimate revenge in the end..... i.e. old age.


Every year I will drag you with me, like it or not..... :-)


John Smith

geochuck
July 11th, 2006, 11:30 PM
Oh Fort Lauderdale is the Blue Note Night Club still accross the street from the pool. Had many a jug of beer there in 1955.