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ande
June 16th, 2005, 11:21 AM
MAKING YOURSELF HEART ATTACK PROOF
sounds fairly sensational, but a friend of mines dad, Dr Esselstyn has done a tremendous amount of research in this area.

http://www.vegsource.com/esselstyn/

http://www.vegsource.com/esselstyn/news_info.htm

http://www.runtex.com/NewsView.asp?key_m=219

http://www.heartattackproof.com/

just google his name if you'd like to learn more.

Ande

gull
June 16th, 2005, 01:38 PM
Dean Ornish has published similar results. Unfortunately, most patients are unable or unwilling to become vegetarians and reduce their fat intake to 10%. Americans prefer the quick fix (which doesn't exist).

thisgirl13
June 16th, 2005, 03:17 PM
Ande,

Brilliant post. I've been following this kind of research for awhile now.

My dad's side of the family is very susceptible to heart related problems, and high blood pressure, so I've been very careful about the things I eat since I was a little girl.

I was a strict vegan for a couple years, but over time, and due to swimming factors, have added a couple "exceptions" to my diet. I guess you could call me a pesco-vegetarian, because I do eat fish, but no other meat.

It's not as hard to find good sources of protein anymore for vegetarians like it used to be, thanks to the wide use of soy. However, it is still difficult to keep the diet low-fat. Some steps have been taken to avert this, but it is a common fact that vegetarians tend to be heavier than their meat-eating counterparts.

If only it were a perfect world. *sigh* :rolleyes:

ande
June 16th, 2005, 04:12 PM
THANKS
I need to do a better job with what i consume.

Ande


Originally posted by thisgirl13
Ande,

Brilliant post. I've been following this kind of research for awhile now.

My dad's side of the family is very susceptible to heart related problems, and high blood pressure, so I've been very careful about the things I eat since I was a little girl.

I was a strict vegan for a couple years, but over time, and due to swimming factors, have added a couple "exceptions" to my diet. I guess you could call me a pesco-vegetarian, because I do eat fish, but no other meat.

It's not as hard to find good sources of protein anymore for vegetarians like it used to be, thanks to the wide use of soy. However, it is still difficult to keep the diet low-fat. Some steps have been taken to avert this, but it is a common fact that vegetarians tend to be heavier than their meat-eating counterparts.

If only it were a perfect world. *sigh* :rolleyes:

Heidi
June 16th, 2005, 06:47 PM
Hahah - I only eat healthy because I am so damn picky! The list of stuff I don't like is quite extensive: all seafood except some mild white fish, all red meat, all pork products, most chicken, most desert like snack foods, soft drinks, eggs... ... ...

I'll probably have a heart attack trying to find something to eat for dinner tonight!

Canadian Triathlete
June 17th, 2005, 02:08 AM
Great Post :)

Scansy
June 17th, 2005, 07:45 AM
Originally posted by thisgirl13
Ande,

Brilliant post. I've been following this kind of research for awhile now.

My dad's side of the family is very susceptible to heart related problems, and high blood pressure, so I've been very careful about the things I eat since I was a little girl.

I was a strict vegan for a couple years, but over time, and due to swimming factors, have added a couple "exceptions" to my diet. I guess you could call me a pesco-vegetarian, because I do eat fish, but no other meat.

It's not as hard to find good sources of protein anymore for vegetarians like it used to be, thanks to the wide use of soy. However, it is still difficult to keep the diet low-fat. Some steps have been taken to avert this, but it is a common fact that vegetarians tend to be heavier than their meat-eating counterparts.

If only it were a perfect world. *sigh* :rolleyes:

Where did you hear that vegetarians tend to be heavier? That's interesting to me because I work with a guy who is a vegetarian because it's a healthier way to eat (his words). But he uses so much cheese and eats so much junk that he is at least 100 lbs overweight......

Sometimes I think the lack of protein in his diet (he doesn't use a lot of nuts or soy, etc) means he is more hungry more of the time.....

Leonard Jansen
June 17th, 2005, 07:56 AM
I'm a vegetarian and have always had to struggle with my weight. However, what has really helped more than anything is eliminating almost all sugar from my diet. Fortunately, I don't have much of a sweet tooth.

-LBJ

craiglll@yahoo.com
June 17th, 2005, 10:24 AM
Did everyone hear the report released to day that teenage boys who had acne are more likely to have healthy hearts as a dults. I didn't get my first pimple until I was 22 years old. Now I truly fear a young death!

aztimm
June 17th, 2005, 03:12 PM
I took a quick skim through, but didn't see anything about genetics, and how that can be a cause of heart disease. Yes, there are some factors within our control, however some certainly are not.

jim thornton
July 13th, 2005, 05:46 PM
A cardiologist friend of mine summed up fate thusly:

"If you were born to drown, you'll never hang."

I think that the genetics of heart disease are extremely compelling, and that many of the conventional risk factors, including high cholesterol, are only that--risk factors, not guarantees of early demise.

Having said this, and acknowledging Craig's ? point about most Americans eschewing vegetarianism and a sub-10 percent fat diet (which can cause its own problems, especially for athletes training hard), you might want to look at the research indicating how three medicines can cut heart attack risk by about 80 percent.

low dose aspirin to inhibit blood clotting
a beta blocker to control blood pressure
a statin drug to lower cholesterol and, perhaps more importantly, stabilize whatever plaque you have within you

if anyone is interested, you can email me and I will send you an article I did on this for Best Life magazine (an offshoot of Men's Health)

Jeff Commings
July 13th, 2005, 06:37 PM
Originally posted by aztimm
I took a quick skim through, but didn't see anything about genetics, and how that can be a cause of heart disease. Yes, there are some factors within our control, however some certainly are not.

Every day I fight the battle against genetics. Both sides of my family have long histories of heart disease.

I take medication. I eat pretty well (pork and chicken and tuna are my main sources of protein, which every swimmer needs). And I've been a competitive swimmer since 6 years old, so I know that helps.

I could never be a vegan/vegetarian. I love pig products too much.

Peter Cruise
July 13th, 2005, 08:10 PM
My teenage daughter calls herself a vegetarian, but she has declared that bacon is a vegetable.
My early 20's still-at-home son will eat meat, but only if he catches or kills it himself (he says we are "too remote" from what we eat. But he likes beer (which he does not brew himself) a lot...
sigh...My wife has gone on a no-salt diet (blood pressure)...I sure like going to swim meets & eating out...

valhallan
July 14th, 2005, 07:04 AM
However, what has really helped more than anything is eliminating almost all sugar from my diet.

Sports drinks and juice drinks are loaded with sugar. And it's surprising how much of this is consumed by athletes as a daily part of their training regime. A healthy dose of unrefined carbs and water after a workout is an excellent alternative to a half gallon jug of sugar laced energy drink.

...salmon, ground flax seeds, and omega three oils are wonderful for the heart...www.drweil.com has great information about the benefits of these things and more.

battle
July 14th, 2005, 08:55 AM
About 6 years ago I read the Ornish book and was convinced to try the sub 10% fat diet. I never felt or swam so badly. I guess it is an individual thing. After about 3 months I drank a milkshake (with whole milk), felt great the next day, and have never looked back since. Good luck to all you that want to live forever - I think very active people require more fat than that.

alexknibbs
July 14th, 2005, 10:15 AM
The postings about vegetarians perhaps having in general a greater body mass than their meat-eating counterparts, is concerning to say the least.

Having studied obesity at college several years ago the message I seemed to glean from a plethora of different studies seemed to indicate that the opposite was in fact the case. Clearly we will be easily misled if we concentrate on anecdotal evidence based on one or two vegetarians who we might happen to know who .. just happen to have a high BMI. [Just like everyone knows someone who smoked and lived to 90 right? Attributing causal relationships can be fraught with problems].

Surely we should err towards the larger and more robustly clinically controlled studies on which to base our conclusions.

For example, check out

http://sci.cancerresearchuk.org/research/ceu/publications/abstracts/2003-9313169-27-728-734.html

From the research I conducted in the 1990s this seemed to be a fairly typical finding.

Just my 2 cents.

gull
July 14th, 2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by jim thornton
...low dose aspirin to inhibit blood clotting
a beta blocker to control blood pressure
a statin drug to lower cholesterol and, perhaps more importantly, stabilize whatever plaque you have...

Excellent point--statins in particular have had a tremendous impact. However, you should also include exercise and weight loss, as well as not smoking (none of which can be solved with a pill).

Bob McAdams
July 14th, 2005, 11:59 AM
Originally posted by battle
About 6 years ago I read the Ornish book and was convinced to try the sub 10% fat diet. I never felt or swam so badly. I guess it is an individual thing. After about 3 months I drank a milkshake (with whole milk), felt great the next day, and have never looked back since. Good luck to all you that want to live forever - I think very active people require more fat than that.

Try Omega 3 fats, instead. You can find a lot of them in seafood. Sharks eat lots of seafood, and look at how fast they swim!:)

knelson
July 14th, 2005, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by Peter Cruise
But he likes beer (which he does not brew himself) a lot...

It seems to me beer should be o.k. with this diet plan. Entirely plant-based and no fat. You'd have to be a pretty extreme vegan to consider yeast an animal!

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 15th, 2005, 05:20 PM
Genetics plays a role in heart condition. I have know 2 guys who were great atheletes & dead by 55 yrs of age from heart attacks. It can happen to anyone.