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ande
June 26th, 2005, 10:20 AM
here's santa clara results
anyone got any comments

http://www.santaclaraswimclub.org/Meets/2005International/Results/index.htm

Sam Perry
June 26th, 2005, 01:15 PM
If you are not interested don't click on the link. It's that simple, lighten up. All Ande is trying to do is to make it easier for FANS of the sport to see results.

I could care less what age the competitors are. In fact I would rather see what world class athletes are doing as a FAN than the senior olympics. Doesn't mean those results don't matter, I would just ignore them.

I don't understand why people on here have do be so negative when all someone is trying to do is to promote a sport we all love...

Peter Cruise
June 26th, 2005, 02:16 PM
And check out Dennis Baker in 200 fly at Santa Clara...not all teenagers!

ande
June 26th, 2005, 02:32 PM
dear ms grupp,

folks on this board love swimming

we love masters swimming and we love what elite swimmers are doing. Santa Clara is current news because it's happening now and it's a preview to nationals and world games next month, it's something to discuss. if you're not interested in it, you can skip this thread.

I encourage you to begin a thread on the senior games
I've got 8 more years till I'll be eligible to participate. I admire those who do.

ande


Originally posted by msgrupp
be interested in this--why? Most of the participants are in their mid-late teens. Most of the masters swimmers are over 21.

Look at the results for the Senior Games at teampittsburgh.com. They are more relevant to many of the people here. Also the Y masters results for national competition.

ande
June 26th, 2005, 02:39 PM
dear msgrupp,

great, stir the conversation and keep it on the front page.

also msgrupp when i write about stuff, i'm not bragging
it's just what happened

ande



Originally posted by msgrupp
I did. Do another search (on me) and you'll see that I DID post on the Senior Games. In fact-- I DO know a number of the swimmers who DID swim in the Senior Games. But I don't go off bragging about who I swim with and who I might be training with.

Tom Ellison
June 26th, 2005, 02:45 PM
Msgrupp, gosh I don't think young Ande is bragging, he is simply posting stuff for us to read, look at and enjoy....I do not know Ande, but I met him once or twice at Masters Meets in Texas, and he is a pretty decent guy and a good swimmer....give the guy a chance....He knows swimming....very well.....

In the past you have always been pretty positive....what is going on as of late that has tweaked you? I am NOT being disrespectful when I write this, but Sam had some real good advice....lighten up a bit.....this it is a swimming forum.....

Tom Ellison
June 26th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Wow, being an OFF meet...some of those times were smoking fast!

Larry
June 26th, 2005, 03:27 PM
MissGrumpy,
I also find the results of the Santa Clara meet to be of interest, just as I appreciate Ande's posts. If you think he's dropping names or bragging than you clearly miss the intent of his posts. Keep 'em coming, Ande.

msgrupp
June 26th, 2005, 04:16 PM
You people aren't worth the time or bother. This is supposed to be a forum about MASTERS swimming. What the "kids" are doing (while somewhat important to those of you without a life) doesn't relate totally to Masters who are usually WELL over 21.

As I've said when I've done meets---We're past the age of going for scholarships and sponsors--we're swimming for our own pleasure and spirit of competition.

And Ande--it IS considered bragging when you constantly mention the coaches at a particular school and who you are swimming with.

By the way--I'm not Grumpy----some of you are a bit grumpy when called on the carpet.

dcswimguy
June 26th, 2005, 04:33 PM
The board might be sponsered by USMS. But I can't find any place that says people can only talk about masters. In fact, the name of the category is General Discussions and the description says "Any swimming-related topics not covered in one of the other top level topics". A lot of people care whats going on in Santa Clara and with the US World Champs team, if you don't then don't read the thread.

Sam Perry
June 26th, 2005, 05:11 PM
Is it me, or do the most negative people on here never post thier name? It seems all the threads I read on here, when someone is overly negative or critical, they don't even have the guts to say who they are. This is not against "msgrupp" personally, but look all over this forum and let me know if I am just crazy or their is some validity to my observation. I think if you are bold enough to gripe, you should be bold enough to use your real name. Look at the "Foreign Swimmers..." thread and I think you'll see the most outlandish comments are from those who remain anonymous.

Just a thought...

valhallan
June 26th, 2005, 05:14 PM
This is only speculation but....Piersol has definitely been chowing down on too much much pizza.....seven seconds is a big gap between his personal best. Most of the athletes are probably not tapered. ..except for the Polish sprinter (mens 50 free)...he was fast.

on a side note...I appreciate ande's post for keeping the forum lively. In the past few years the topics have strayed from swimming and gone more in the direction of what shampoo is best for after practice. Ande rocks.

Howard
June 26th, 2005, 05:15 PM
Originally posted by msgrupp
You people aren't worth the time or bother.

Then why did you bother to take the time and come into this thread and proceed to make an issue where there wasn't one until you decided to make one? Show some class and self control. Some of us are still close in age to the swimmers in Santa Clara.

Some of us have enough of a life that we don't need to go looking for trouble which doesn't appear to be the case with you.

Rich Abrahams
June 26th, 2005, 06:04 PM
I have to assume that the vast majority of Masters swimmers want to improve their swimming. Paying close attention to what is happening at the highest levels of the sport makes that goal much more attainable. Plus, it is pure pleasure to see someone perform our sport with such skill and grace.

Peter Cruise
June 26th, 2005, 07:01 PM
As previous Olympics & trials threads have amply illustrated, many of us are the biggest fans of the sport going. If a marvelous swimmer like Rich can gain from paying close attention then it behooves the rest of us to pay attention.

aquageek
June 26th, 2005, 07:24 PM
Originally posted by msgrupp
You people aren't worth the time or bother. This is supposed to be a forum about MASTERS swimming. What the "kids" are doing (while somewhat important to those of you without a life) doesn't relate totally to Masters who are usually WELL over 21.


Can I attend my kids' swim meets and brag on them or is that forbidden also? I happen to be quite proud of my 6 year old's recent PB in the 25 m free.

ande
June 26th, 2005, 07:57 PM
very well put

Ande


Originally posted by Rich Abrahams
I have to assume that the vast majority of Masters swimmers want to improve their swimming. Paying close attention to what is happening at the highest levels of the sport makes that goal much more attainable. Plus, it is pure pleasure to see someone perform our sport with such skill and grace.

dvarner
June 26th, 2005, 08:22 PM
Gee,

if anything, Masters for me has been a celebration of all things swimming.

Personally, I'm beyond caring about age in the larger sense but inspired by their strength and grace. And if the fellowship of us old fogies following their lead encourages them, so much the better. We care, we know their success is transitory, and there is a future (albeit slower and more sociable) to look forward to.

DV

seltzer
June 27th, 2005, 08:07 AM
Originally posted by Peter Cruise
And check out Dennis Baker in 200 fly at Santa Clara...not all teenagers!

Also Mike Ross, a member of New England Masters Swim Club , competed as a member of the NE Barracudas. Mike is 37 years old and swim at night in both individual events and on some of the Cuda relays.

Also looked to me that "most" of the finalist were 18 years or older, meaning that they are good recruits for masters.

Finally, my wife and I occasionally get in one of the lanes when our son is at swim team practice. The "kids" think its absolutely great to see parents in there doing the workout. Too bad, it doesn't happen more often. Its never too early to get kids thinking about swimming long after their "competitive" career is over. In fact, my daughter, who will swim at Kenyon this Fall, and her best swimming friend have vowed to swim masters after college. Their reason??? They get to pick and choose their sets, leave the pool when they want, and race when they want. In other words, they get to swim for the pure love of it. This is something that they learned because we are involved in their swimming and they watch us "strive" in the water for the pure joy of the it all.

Tom Ellison
June 27th, 2005, 08:40 AM
"if anything, Masters for me has been a celebration of all things swimming."

Brothers and Sisters....can we hear a loud AMEN!

tjburk
June 27th, 2005, 09:13 AM
Wow!!!! msgrupp.....you just don't get it do you? Angel Martino, Rowdy Gaines...just to name two former Olympians that after competing in the Olympics used Masters as a training tool to prepare for more Olympics!!!! You might even get a chance someday to see some of the names listed on the Santa Clara meet at a Masters meet!

I personally love to follow what the younger swimmers are doing!!!! Keep it up Ande!!!! And thanks from all of us who do care!!!!!

msgrupp....like the advice given by others earlier in this thread... don't like it....stay out of it!!!!

scyfreestyler
June 27th, 2005, 11:08 AM
What's up with msgrupp? I love all aspects of swimming and going to events such as this serves to pump me up even more. Anyhow, the meet was a great time. No sooner than had we sat down in the bleachers and Natalie Coughlin sits down about 3 rows ahead of us to get ready for her race. Unfortunately I was too close to take many pictures without being overly-intrusive and I chose to leave her alone as she was preparing for the 50 Free Heat. Shortly thereafter Mr. Phelps, Peter Vanderkaay and Bob Bowman are parked in front of us. Without question there were plenty of photo opportunities for my wife! Anyhow, the swimming was quite good and Ryan Lochte taking the win in the 200IM heat was a real crowd pleaser even though it was not a final. Does anybody know what the deal is with Peirsol? He failed to qualify for his signature race. After I had been preaching to my wife about how incredible this guy is in backstroke he truly dissapointed us. Brendan Hansen was absolutely incredible and made it seem like the race was staged. Competition must be scarce for the guy. The facility was incredible and I truly wish I had a place like that around the corner from my house.

SwiminONandON
June 27th, 2005, 12:57 PM
Peirsol did win the 200 back, which is his better backstroke event of the two. He swam the 200IM prelim and went out REALLY fast. He went a 26 on the fly and was still in first place after the backstroke leg by nearly 2 seconds, and ended up in 10th place. I think he wore himself out for the 100 back. He had a bad (for him) second 50 and usually that's when he really comes to life ... hopefully everything is ok, he's not injured and there's no personal issues going on ... I'm sure by worlds he be in top form and get both backstroke golds ...

some_girl
June 27th, 2005, 01:46 PM
Originally posted by Sam Perry
Is it me, or do the most negative people on here never post thier name? It seems all the threads I read on here, when someone is overly negative or critical, they don't even have the guts to say who they are. This is not against "msgrupp" personally, but look all over this forum and let me know if I am just crazy or their is some validity to my observation. I think if you are bold enough to gripe, you should be bold enough to use your real name. Look at the "Foreign Swimmers..." thread and I think you'll see the most outlandish comments are from those who remain anonymous.

Just a thought...

Uh, I'm not anonymous because I'm a cranky leftist. I'm anonymous because I'm the only person who comes up when you google my name, and everyone with ten minutes and a search engine doesn't need to know everything about me.

iswim41
June 27th, 2005, 01:53 PM
Most people do not protect their privacy as well as they should. Forums like this do not require legal names, I'm okay with that.

some_girl
June 27th, 2005, 02:17 PM
Oh, I forgot to say thanks for posting this, Ande. It's nice to see the shimmering goalposts.

Kimberlie Streed
June 27th, 2005, 04:48 PM
Post by: Tom Ellison

"if anything, Masters for me has been a celebration of all things swimming."

Brothers and Sisters....can we hear a loud AMEN!

Tom, you have my "AMEN!" and Ande, thank you for all the information you put out here for us. I haven't said much since finding the boards and signing on but I read all the time and am encouraged tremendously by much of what I read.

Old Flyer
June 28th, 2005, 02:07 PM
How common is that? Seems rare to me...why'd they do it at Santa Clara?

Did anyone see why Phelps DQ'ed 50 free? Was it a false start or non-start?

Lots of fast, young Japanese.

Congrats to Michael Ross 37 and Dennis Baker 43 for giving it a go against the young'uns.

Sidenote to MsGrupp, as with TV or radio, if you don't like what's posted, change the channel. Why invest time and energy getting torqued up about electrically charged phosphor from people you don't know on topics you're not interested in?

Jeff Commings
June 28th, 2005, 04:12 PM
Santa Clara has nine lanes. Better to give three people a chance for a second swim (27 in the three final heats as opposed to 24).

Plus, using nine lanes will make prelims go much faster.

I think next spring's nationals should use more than eight lanes for the two courses. Unless they plan to set it up like it was in Tempe.

You'd be surprised how much faster things go with heats of nine or 10 swimmers. Those 200s and 500s fly by!

letsrace
July 5th, 2005, 10:59 AM
Phelps scratched from the 50 because it would have required him to wait for about 2 hours to swim.

letsrace
July 5th, 2005, 11:02 AM
Dennis actually qualified for US Nationals in a time trial. He went 2:04 something. I can't find the official time.

Frank Thompson
July 5th, 2005, 07:17 PM
Are you the same Mike Ross that swam a backstroke split of :21.81 on those 2 NCAA Championship 200 Medley Relays that won in 1989 and 1990 for Princeton.

letsrace
July 5th, 2005, 08:20 PM
Yes, I am the same person.

Frank Thompson
July 5th, 2005, 08:35 PM
Mike:

I was going thru my swimming VHS and found one of those races either 1989 or 1990. I have the one when you swam in Lane 1 and you swam the whole race underwater. Also about 3 months ago on a post, a triva ? about one of those Relays, was there was a breastroker that had the fastest split for about 7 years. I think is name was Rich. The other guy's name was Leroy?

letsrace
July 5th, 2005, 09:05 PM
Yes, Richard Korhammer. His time was stunning. We were fortunate to have Leroy Kim for the next year. Both guys were amazing breast strokers.

The most interesting thing about those relays was actually the Osborne factor. Erik Osborne, who was Princeton's 50 freestyler, had his lung collapse during the final weeks of taper leading up to NCAAs in 1989. Rumor had it that getting out of bed was too much for the sprinter. Of course, he claims that it was climbing stairs to class. :)

We were lucky to have Robert Musslewhite take Erik's place. I don't think Robert had ever broken 21 flat start, so we were all a little "white knuckled" watching him being chased down by the big boys.

Being in the outside lane was fun in that the commentators disregarded our chance at winning, both years.

Unfortunately, I have lost my copies of those races.

Glenn
July 5th, 2005, 09:31 PM
I too enjoyed seeing the results of the Santa Clara meet. Besides seeing what the current times are, I like to see what splits swimmers are making. I am a 400/500 swimmer so I am always trying to negative split or even split my races. I like to see how consistent my 50's are. So by looking at the younger swimmers, I can see how consistent they are and what kind of drop off they have between the first and last 100. You can always learn from other swimmers, masters or age group.

Glenn :)

seltzer
July 8th, 2005, 09:58 AM
Originally posted by letsrace
Yes, I am the same person.


Not quite. You can't even take 15 kicks per length underwater in a 100 now.

Just kidding, Mike. Good swims at Santa Clara but how can you stand training with those Cuda kids. Must be like going back in a time machine and finding yourself at Peddie.

Bob Seltzer

letsrace
July 8th, 2005, 12:09 PM
You are correct, being limited to 10 (or 11) kicks is a challenge, but I am starting to get the hang of it.

To be honest, I can't hang with the Cuda kids. Thankfully, Chuck Batchelor (the coach at Baracudas) is very supportive.
I only swim with them about twice a month, but each time I return back to my YMCA a little more humble.


Thanks for the words of encouragement, Bob.

letsrace
July 8th, 2005, 12:31 PM
I feel guilty for having changed the focus of this thread, so I will try to help guide this back to the meet.

I saw several great swims. Some of the standouts for me were the men's 200 free. Sure, Phelps was incredible as usual, but I was most impressed with Peter Vanderkaay. He has a remarkable stroke.

As his hand enters the water the water seems to roll up over his arm, shoulder and head with very little splash. Seems like a minor thing to note, but with each stroke I could see the water flowing over his cap. One might suggest that this was caused by his burying his head, but don't think so. It was some magical interaction with his arm entry and head position.

His time wasn't too bad either.

Lochte in the prelims of the 200 back was something to see. He was clearly cruising just to make finals, but when he hit the last turn he kicked out with great power. It looked to me that he pulled even with Piersol simply with his underwater kickout in the last turn. Not bad, considering that he had a .83 deficit at the 150. He scratched to have a better 400 that night, I suspect.

To look at the results, one might ask "what happened to Natalie in the 50 free". Her morning swim was a 25.92 while her evening swim was a 26.57. What is missing from the results is the stroke she was swimming.

Yes, in the morning she did freestyle, where she looked very easy. She came out about a half body length ahead after what looked to me like a relaxed underwater kick. At night she had a much more powerful underwater kick and came up swimming fly. Pretty impressive.