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ande
July 17th, 2005, 10:22 PM
some of us might enjoy following the world championships

you can find worlds results at
http://www.omegatiming.com/

first click on
"XI FINA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS"

then click on
"Swimming"
on the top middle of the page


July 24 Day 8

Preliminaries
SESSION 1 09:30
100 m Butterfly (W)
400 m Free (M)
200 m IM (W)
50 m Butterfly (M)
400 m Free (W)
100 m Breast (M)
4x100 m Free (W)
4x100 mFree (M)

Finals
SESSION 2 18:00 - 20:00
100 m Butterfly (W)– Semi
400 m Free (M)
200 m IM (W)– Semi
50 m Butterfly (M)– Semi
400 m Free (W)
100 m Breast (M)– Semi
4x100 m Free (W)
4x100 m Free (M)


July 25 Day 9

Preliminaries
SESSION 3 09:30
100 m Back (W)
200 m Free (M)
100 m Breast (W)
100 m Back (M)
1500 m Free (W)

Finals
SESSION 4 18:00 - 20:00
50 m Butterfly (M)
100 m Breast (W)– Semi
100 m Breast (M)
100 m Butterfly (W)
200 m Free (M)– Semi
100 m Back (W)– Semi
100 m Back (M)– Semi
200 m IM (W)


July 26 Day 10

Preliminaries
SESSION 5 09:30
50 m Breast (M)
200 m Butterfly (M)
200 m Free (W)
800 m Free (M)

Finals
SESSION 6 18:00 - 20:10
1500 m Free (W)
50 m Breast (M)– Semi
100 m Back (W)
200 m Butterfly (M)– Semi
100 m Breast (W)
100 m Back (M)
200 m Free (W)– Semi
200 m Free (M)


July 27 Day 11
Preliminaries
SESSION 7 09:30
50 m Back (W)
100 m Free (M)
200 m Butterfly (W)
200 m IM (M)

Finals
SESSION 8 18:00 - 20:00
100 m Free (M)– Semi
50 m Back (W)– Semi
50 m Breast (M)
200 m Free (W)
200 m Butterfly (M)
200 m Butterfly (W)– Semi
200 m IM (M)– Semi
800 m Free (M)

July 28 Day 12
Preliminaries
SESSION 9 09:30
100 m Free (W)
200 m Back (M)
200 m Breast (W)
200 m Breast (M)
4x200 m Free (W)

Finals
SESSION 10 18:00 - 20:10
100 m Free (W)– Semi
200 m Breast (M)– Semi
50 m Back (W)
100 m Free (M)
200 m Butterfly (W)
200 m Back (M)– Semi
200 m Breast (W)– Semi
200 m IM (M)
4x200 m Free (W)

July 29 Day 13

Preliminaries
SESSION 11 09:30
50 m Butterfly (W)
50 m Free (M)
800 m Free (W)
100 m Butterfly (M)
200 m Back (W)
4x200 m Free (M)

Finals
SESSION 12 18:00 - 20:10
100 m Free (W)
200 m Back (M)
200 m Back (W)– Semi
50 m Free (M)– Semi
200 m Breast (W)
100 m Butterfly (M)– Semi
50 m Butterfly (W)– Semi
200 m Breast (M)
4x200 m Free (M)


July 30 Day 14

Preliminaries
SESSION 13 09:30
50 m Free (W)
50 m Back (M)
50 m Breast (W)
1500 m Free (M)
4x100 m Medley (W)

Finals
SESSION 14 18:00 - 20:10
50 m Butterfly (W)
50 m Free (M)
200 m Back (W)
100 m Butterfly (M)
50 m Breast (W)– Semi
50 m Free (W)– Semi
50 m Back (M)– Semi
800 m Free (W)
4x100 m Medley (W)

July 31 Day 15
Preliminaries
SESSION 15 09:30
400 m IM (M)
400 m IM (W)
4x100 m Medley (M)

Finals
SESSION 16 18:00 - 20:10
50 m Back (M)
50 m Breast (W)
400 m IM (M)
50 m Free (W)
1500 m Free (M)
400 m IM (W)
4x100 m Medley (M)

CLOSING CEREMONY

Seagurl51
July 18th, 2005, 10:30 AM
Does anybody know if any American broadcast companies are showing them? I remember reading in the other thread that the Canadian Broadcast Company is showing them, but it made no mention about like ESPN or FOX. Anybody know?

Frank Thompson
July 18th, 2005, 12:47 PM
On the FOX Sports Network website last week they had listed that they will provide coverage of the meet but they had not announced further details of the coverage. This week they announced that it will be covered on Fox College Sports TV, which is not the FOX network that provided the 1998 FINA World Championships. So if you don't have this as part of your cable package, you are out of luck unless you can pick up CBC.

FOX College Sports will provide coverage starting Sunday, July 24, 2005 from 6:00 PM until 8:00 PM ET. It will be shown for the next 7 days at the same time everyday ending Sunday, July 31, 2005. The coverage is for aquatic sports, so the 16 hours has all of the other disciplines and swimming will be part of the coverage everyday. FOX College Sports has 3 regions and I am pretty sure it will be shown in all 3 regions.

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 19th, 2005, 11:51 AM
Isn't NBC going to show highlights onthe 6th & 7th of August?

Frank Thompson
July 19th, 2005, 12:03 PM
Craiglll:

NBC is showing Duel in the Pool, which is Team USA vs. Team Australia. It will be shown on August 6 from 4:00 to 6:00 PM ET and on August 7 from 1:00 to 2:30 PM ET. If you want to know more about the details of that meet go to the USA swimming site at www.usaswimming.org which has a link to this site also in the links section. It has a story about the meet, the type of events in dual meet format and the swimmers that will be swimming in the meet.

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 19th, 2005, 05:50 PM
Thank you. I don't know where I got the idea that it was highlights for worlds.

Does any one think that Duel in the Pool will be as exciting as worlds looks like it might be? I knid of thought that the Duel in the Pool in Indy didn't live up to all of the hype.

Jeff Commings
July 19th, 2005, 06:36 PM
There are financial incentives for athletes to break world records. And it's national pride.

Coming right off worlds, there might be some good performances.

But I expected more individual world records in Athens, so you never know how a meet will pan out. Just watch and enjoy.

nkace
July 20th, 2005, 12:34 PM
I am so glad to find out about this! Awesome!

knelson
July 20th, 2005, 12:38 PM
According to the CBC website they will have coverage Sunday afternoon, then weeknights from 7:00-8:00. Good news for those of us who get CBC!

scyfreestyler
July 20th, 2005, 04:38 PM
The more I think about this event not being covered by a major network, the more it irks me. For crying out loud, the NCAA swimming championships were covered on ESPN. If NCAA is important then a WORLD championship sure as hell should be. It's hard to believe that people would rather watch a bunch of rerun amateur boxing matches on ESPN than the fastest swimmers in the world giving their all.

Sam Perry
July 20th, 2005, 04:54 PM
I hear you, but like it or not, they would show it if they could sell space. Ratings are all that matter, believe me if they thought they could get better ratings NOT showing boxing reruns or whatever they would.

I think the only sport on the networks that is there in spite of bad ratings, is the WNBA. They show that b/c the NBA subsidizes the sport. Nothing against woman's basketball, I actually think women are better pure shooters than men for the most part.

I guess if we could get some sort of major league to subsidize swimming we could get airtime.

scyfreestyler
July 20th, 2005, 05:06 PM
Originally posted by Sam Perry
I hear you, but like it or not, they would show it if they could sell space. Ratings are all that matter, believe me if they thought they could get better ratings NOT showing boxing reruns or whatever they would.

I think the only sport on the networks that is there in spite of bad ratings, is the WNBA. They show that b/c the NBA subsidizes the sport. Nothing against woman's basketball, I actually think women are better pure shooters than men for the most part.

I guess if we could get some sort of major league to subsidize swimming we could get airtime.
You speak the truth Sam. I suppose I should look at it as belonging to some sort of rare sport that few people GET to watch and even fewer know how to do correctly. Matt

Seagurl51
July 20th, 2005, 05:25 PM
Just out of curiosity how many people here get either FSN Northwest or FSN Detriot? I know someone who works for the company and am always trying to tell him that swimming is a bigger market than he thinks. If enough people show enough support in it, I think we could get our sport covered more. Feel free to PM or e-mail with comments. :)

Jeff Commings
July 20th, 2005, 06:27 PM
I remember the 1991 World Championships being shown on network TV. It was pretty much the whole meet crammed into two hours, but still worth it.

With the huge mass appeal of Michael Phelps and Natalie Coughlin, airing worlds on a network would be a no-brainer. But oh well.

Frank Thompson
July 20th, 2005, 06:52 PM
I agree with what everyone is saying and I will add some more information as to why I don't think a major network is providing the World Championships. ESPN and ESPN2 were very successful in carrying the 2003 Championships from Spain and they had at least 12 hours of aquatic coverage. Rumor has it that they had a contract for this meet but it was cancelled when FINA pulled the Montreal bid and for a while the meet was uncertain as to where it was going to be, if it would be held at all. Cities like Athens, Berlin, and Moscow were interested and were going to put bids together for the meet.

Then some strange things happen like the head organizer for Montreal was found dead of an apparent sucide and then a couple of weeks later FINA announced that the meet was going back to Montreal and the financial woes have apppartently been straigthten out. Because of this uncertainty, I am convinced that the major networks did not want to get caught holding the bag so to speak, so none of them bid on the meet.

FOX Sports announced on there website that they would carry the meet but were very vague until this week when they announced that College Sports Net would provide the coverage.
In 2001, when the championships were in Japan, I don't believe there was any coverage, even tape delay. The 1998 Perth and 1994 Rome Championships were covered tape delay.

Swimming has been very succesful in the last 2 years and I really feel that if the meet was not originally dropped by FINA, you would have the same coverage that was provided by Spain in 2003. I am lucky because I can pick up CBC real well. Also today my cable company was having a special to add stations and for $4.95 per month I get all these sports stations including FOX College Sports Net. I am in the Eastern division which is one of the 3 regions they will show the coverage. I plan on watching and taping both coverages as I have done in the past.

Matt S
July 21st, 2005, 02:31 PM
My own, personal conspiracy (sort of) theory: TV airs programming that it expects to generate revenue, BUT network decisions influence what we think we want to see.

Put another way, if networks are willing to put a lot of hype, publicity, and broadcasting production into covering an event, more people will watch it. So, what events will they choose to back with these kinds of resources? The ones that the executives believe will benefit the most from publicity and/or ones that will generate advertising revenue. Because American football is so popular with such a large percentage of the population, it pays more to flak relentlessly for a lousy, meaningless exhibition game than it does for the most compelling synchronized swimming competition in the history of the sport. However, because executives are human beings and not omniscient, often times their judgments will be unimaginative, risk-adverse, appealing to the crassest lowest common denominator, or simply ignorant to the opportunities of an off-beat sport.

How many times have you channel-surfed past ESPN2, and seen yet another replay of some idiotic "World's Strongest Man" competition. Oh yes, I want to watch Olaf Larson carry a small Nordic village on his back for a 100m, one more time. Does ANYONE actually watch this drivel? Ever? Wouldn't seeing it one less time, and instead watching FINA World Championships, with recognizable U.S. stars like Michael Phelps in the competition, make some sense? So, how does this make any sense from any perspective? Well, assume some guy who knows this stuff has shown before, and figures advertisers are used to it and will pony up some minimal dollars to run it, and he couldn't tell the difference between FINA Worlds, and the local YMCA region championships and suddenly it makes sense.

So, I read alot of apologia from various folks about how TV networks follow the money, and we have to build up the fan base for swimming so there will be more money in it for advertisers, yada, yada, yada. This is all true to a certain extent. However, there are factors other than sheer fan base that go into these kinds of decisions, and they tend to create inertia for seeing more of precisely what we have seen in the past, regardless of how dreary or tiresome it has become.

Also, I think Skip has made a very valid point about FINA scaring away networks and advertisers with the off-again, on-again championship meet. Given the possibilities for building on the Athens Olympic swimming competition, this has to go down as a major lost opportunity.

Matt

Peter Cruise
July 21st, 2005, 03:24 PM
Judging by the last Olympic coverage, if Amanda Beard were competing NBC would be covering the story "from all possible angles" "blanket coverage" "more as this story unfolds" "up close and personal"....

aquageek
July 21st, 2005, 03:29 PM
There is one factor and one factor only driving what to put on TV - money. Let me say it again - money. The CBC is different given the 93% tax rate they have up there that subsidizes everything.

If swimming, not a new sport, was interesting and appealing to the masses, it would have long, long ago been a major televised sport. Swim meets are boring, even as a participant. The sport is hard pressed to meet a logical TV format. 2 minutes of swimming, 3 minutes of waiting, 2 minutes of swimming, etc. All you want to see, for the most part, unless you are an avid swimmer like we are, is the final heat. That leavs hours of boredom where the stars do merely enough to advance.

And, let's compare this Worlds Strongest Man rerun argument. The production costs for that are basically zero. Pop in the tape, you are done. Televising a major sporting event is expensive. Let's say it costs $1m to televise the swimming championships. You have to then sell ad space to support that. Swimming doesn't generate revenue cause no one watches it. So, it's a losing proposition.

Matt S
July 22nd, 2005, 01:21 PM
Aquageek,

I think we may be in violent agreement. Let's review the salient points:

1) TV is about making money. Oh yes, I am 100% in agreement with you on that one. I also happen to believe that sometimes networks make choices out of ignorance because they don't know every sport as well as its fans know it, and they take a pass on opportunities.

2) Swimming is a boring spectator sport; the production required to make it interesting takes work and money. I'm down with you on this point too. The one quibble I have is that you seem to think FINA and US Swimming have sole responsibility to sex up the meets and make them more spectator friendly, and only then will TV come. I happen to believe that TV coverage can take a swim meet as it is currently run, and with good editing and commentary, make it compelling TV viewing. I believe this because they do so, every 4 years, for the Olympic competition. The lost opportunity is that the networks don't see and/or choose not to make other meets into media events. But, this is where your point is very well taken. Why should they when FINA and US Swimming won't do anything to liven things up? You or I could explain to a TV network exec why the FINA World Championships are not just another meet, and describe to them the opportunities, but you or I are not going to get five minutes with a TV network exec.

3) Rerunning a tape of the World's Strongest Man has zero production cost. OOPS, you got me. I had not observed closely enough to tell that these were reruns of a finite number of competitions. However, this is true for rerunning a tape that already exists for ANY athletic competition. The production value is decidedly NOT zero when you make the tape for the first time it will run. So, why was this drivel so much more compelling the first time around?

Back to my original point. TV can create demand for the sporting events it choses to televise. So, the question is why do they chose to create demand for some sports, and not others? An existing fan base is a big factor (hence the reason why basketball is seen more than water polo, despite the fact they have about the same level of watchability, because hey, they are practically the same dang sport). In some other "new" sports, like bikini beach volleyball, the initial hook is obvious.

The difference between our opinions is small. Does it matter? I think it does in this respect. You think TV will never come if we do anything the way we have done it in the past, and we have to change everything to get them to notice. I think we are closer to being a money making proposition for them than you think. With a few strategically selected changes, and a little effective advocacy to point out the opportunities, I think they will come.

Matt

tjrpatt
July 23rd, 2005, 07:44 PM
I am so annoyed that Fox sports is covering and not ESPN. I don't get the Fox college Sports on my cable. I think that it is extra for that and my bill is high enough as it is. Oh well. What was ESPN 2 thinking. I am sure that they can make more money off Worlds than softball or whatever they will have on.

Peter Cruise
July 23rd, 2005, 07:52 PM
Recent results on most-watched 'sports' on US tv:
1. Football...well okay, I suppose
2. Nascar...vroom, vroom
3. Wait for it...Poker!

No wonder we don't see swimming, hmm, maybe online betting on the 100 free, maybe they could swim in an oval pool & bump into each other...

scyfreestyler
July 23rd, 2005, 08:14 PM
We have Dish Network and they don't offer FCS or CBC so I am screwed I guess. Somehow, someway, someday, somebody will pay for this.:mad:

Maryyyyyy
July 24th, 2005, 04:36 AM
I'm feeling very lucky over here in Italy.

Montreal is being covered extremely well by RAI2, one of 3 state-owned channel (free of charge).

Every morning from 7:30-8:00 there is coverage of what happened during the night, and every evening from 5:25-8:00pm we get the direct.

I was VERY impressed on Friday evening that they showed the 25KM WOMEN'S race! Stroke by stroke, and with extremely good and expert commentary we got to see Laura La Piana get the bronze medal - and we're talking about a 5+ hour swim!! Meantime they flashed back and forth between waterpolo and diving... It was extremely entertaining, especially for a swim-nerd like me! And we haven't even started to pool races yet!

Wigam
July 24th, 2005, 11:25 AM
Thanks for that. I watch RAI in the UK via satellite.
Normally watch Rai sport satellite and did not think to look at the other channels.

There is no coverage so far on UK channels ....no surprises there.
The only coverage has been on the cable and satellite channel Eurosport which is a pay service. However there is a free German service via satellite.

Diving and swimming on now.
I feel just as lucky as you Mary and it is all for free.

Peter Cruise
July 24th, 2005, 01:31 PM
Oh oh- Phelps does not qualify for finals in 400 free! Women's 400 free no USA swimmers make finals...this is going to be a very interesting worlds. 100 breast looks like Kitajima & Hansen to duke it out. By the by, oldest swimmer I've spotted so far is Mark Warnecke born 1970 GER in 100brst doing a crisp 1:02.34.

scyfreestyler
July 24th, 2005, 06:55 PM
Yeah, when I saw that Phelps DNQ I was astonished. I was not expecting him to dominate Hackett but certainly expected to see him in the finals. I have never really even considered the possibility of him not making it to a final event. Very unfortunate and I certainly hope that he uses the rest of the meet to prove himself.

EDIT: What I really want to see is Brendan Hansen dominate Kitajima and yell in his ear like Kitajima did to him in Athens. That underhanded cheat!

ande
July 24th, 2005, 11:32 PM
you can find worlds results at
http://www.omegatiming.com/

first click on
"XI FINA WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS"

then click on
"Swimming"
on the top middle of the page


some of the highlights so far are


schoeman broke the world record in the M 50 M FL 23.01
wonder if crocker will respond in the finals?

hansen and kitajima are duking it out in the 100 BR
both swam very close sub 1:00 swims

US Men won FINALS the 4 x 100 free relay
walker split 47.70 on the 4 x 100 fr relay out in 22.1

ande
July 25th, 2005, 10:03 AM
here's the order of events again


Monday, July 25, 2005 - Morning Session
Women's 100m Backstroke Heats
Men's 200m Freestyle Heats
Women's 100m Breaststroke Heats
Men's 100m Backstroke Heats
Women's 1500m Freestyle Heats

Monday, July 25, 2005 - Evening Session
Men's 50m Butterfly Final
Women's 100m Breaststroke Semi-Final
Men's 100m Breaststroke Final
Women's 100m Butterfly Final
Men's 200m Freestyle Semi-Final
Women's 100m Backstroke Semi-Final
Men's 100m Backstroke Semi-Final
Women's 200m Individual Medley Final

Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - Morning Session
Men's 50m Breaststroke Heats
Men's 200m Butterfly Heats
Women's 200m Freestyle Heats
Men's 800m Freestyle Heats
Tuesday, July 26, 2005 - Evening Session
Women's 1500m Freestyle Final
Men's 50m Breaststroke Semi-Final
Women's 100m Backstroke Final
Men's 200m Butterfly Semi-Final
Women's 100m Breaststroke Final
Men's 100m Backstroke Final
Women's 200m Freestyle Semi-Final
Men's 200m Freestyle Final

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - Morning Session
Women's 50m Backstroke Heats
Men's 100m Freestyle Heats
Women's 200m Butterfly Heats
Men's 200m Individual Medley Heats

Wednesday, July 27, 2005 - Evening Session
Men's 100m Freestyle Semi-Final
Women's 50m Backstroke Semi-Final
Men's 50m Breaststroke Final
Women's 200m Freestyle Final
Men's 200m Butterfly Final
Women's 200m Butterfly Semi-Final
Men's 200m Individual Medley Semi-Final
Men's 800m Freestyle Final

Thursday, July 28, 2005 - Morning Session
Women's 100m Freestyle Heats
Men's 200m Backstroke Heats
Women's 200m Breaststroke Heats
Men's 200m Breaststroke Heats
Women's 4 x 200m Freestyle Heats

Thursday, July 28, 2005 - Evening Session
Women's 100m Freestyle Semi-Final
Men's 200m Breaststroke Semi-Final
Women's 50m Backstroke Final
Men's 100m Freestyle Final
Women's 200m Butterfly Final
Men's 200m Backstroke Semi-Final
Women's 200m Breaststroke Semi-Final
Men's 200m Individual Medley Final
Women's 4 x 200m Freestyle Final

Friday, July 29, 2005 - Morning Session
Women's 50m Butterfly Heats
Men's 50m Freestyle Heats
Women's 800m Freestyle Heats
Men's 100m Butterfly Heats
Women's 200m Backstroke Heats
Men's 4 x 200m Freestyle Heats

Friday, July 29, 2005 - Evening Session
Women's 100m Freestyle Final
Men's 200m Backstroke Final
Women's 200m Backstroke Semi-Final
Men's 50m Freestyle Semi-Final
Women's 200m Breaststroke Final
Men's 100m Butterfly Semi-Final
Women's 50m Butterfly Semi-Final
Men's 200m Breaststroke Final
Men's 4 x 200m Freestyle Final

Saturday, July 30, 2005 - Morning Session
Women's 50m Freestyle Heats
Men's 50m Backstroke Heats
Women's 50m Breaststroke Heats
Men's 1500m Freestyle Heats
Women's 4 x 100m Medley Relay Heats

Saturday, July 30, 2005 - Evening Session
Women's 50m Butterfly Final
Men's 50m Freestyle Final
Women's 200m Backstroke Final
Men's 100m Butterfly Final
Women's 50m Breaststroke Semi-Final
Women's 50m Freestyle Semi-Final
Men's 50m Backstroke Semi-Final
Women's 800m Freestyle Final
Women's 4 x 100m Medley Relay Final

Saturday, July 30, 2005 - Morning Session
Women's 50m Freestyle Heats
Men's 50m Backstroke Heats
Women's 50m Breaststroke Heats
Men's 1500m Freestyle Heats
Women's 4 x 100m Medley Relay Heats

Saturday, July 30, 2005 - Evening Session
Women's 50m Butterfly Final
Men's 50m Freestyle Final
Women's 200m Backstroke Final
Men's 100m Butterfly Final
Women's 50m Breaststroke Semi-Final
Women's 50m Freestyle Semi-Final
Men's 50m Backstroke Semi-Final
Women's 800m Freestyle Final
Women's 4 x 100m Medley Relay Final

Leonard Jansen
July 25th, 2005, 10:11 AM
BTW, in case no one has mentioned it already, I believe that you can listen to it over the Internet via:

http://www.eurosport.com

There should be a link on the upper left hand side of the home page. Gotta love Eurosport.

-LBJ

Seagurl51
July 25th, 2005, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by Leonard Jansen
BTW, in case no one has mentioned it already, I believe that you can listen to it over the Internet via:

http://www.eurosport.com

There should be a link on the upper left hand side of the home page. Gotta love Eurosport.

-LBJ

That is so great!! Leonard you're awesome!

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 25th, 2005, 11:02 AM
Swimming is one of the most poplular sports there is. When compared to other sports, it is usually in the top five in daily participation. Many people who swim, even lap swimmers, never conpete. Therefore, since so few people compete in it & the major competitions tend to last over several days that networks do not see any reason to cover it. It would be very expensive to cover the event live. Think of the number of comercials that would be necessary if a network were to cover just 4 hours a day. Also, many meets do not move quickly. Highlight shows are about the most, I think, we can expect. Generally though, by the time a highlight show can be put together, the general public is no longer interested.

This creates a true downward spiral. People don't get to see swimming. People don't know about swimming's competitive nature. People don't know swimmers. People aren't interested. People don't get to se swimming.

Also, the image of swimming with most of the young boys (7 to 14 yrs old) is very bad. they see swimming as somehting you do for fun. Few people know that there are now prizes that include money for world records. They see it as a waste of tiem. why swim?

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 25th, 2005, 11:05 AM
Case in point. Look how Alcatraz was covered over the week end. It made something that is very exciting into a boring show with way too many comercials & those "personal interest" pieces. And poor Adamle, he couldn't even get his butt up oner hill on his bike.

If netwroks covered the Worlds, I can't imagine that they coudl do a good job.

Maryyyyyy
July 25th, 2005, 12:05 PM
If you want to see video clips of each day's races, click here:

RAI CLICK (http://www.raiclicktv.it/raiclick/pc/website/0,4388,10-1430-1-CTY18-CID1430-0-1-0---1-1-ABB0,00.html)

click on "buongiorno Montreal"

then the date that interests you.

if you click on "pieno schermo" the film will fill your screen.

BUONA VISIONE!!

Jeff Commings
July 25th, 2005, 02:28 PM
The Italian site only does Italian news, so if you're like me and wanted to see the 100 breast semi, you're outta luck.

By the way, how do you hear audio on the Eurosports site? Is it only live? I couldn't find the audio link.

Leonard Jansen
July 25th, 2005, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by Jeff Commings
By the way, how do you hear audio on the Eurosports site? Is it only live? I couldn't find the audio link.

If they are broadcasting at that moment, on the left hand side of the Eurosprt home page you will see the words (I think) "AUDIO NOW". Click on that and it should start the audio stream after it buffers, etc. They don't have an archive of the broadcast available, I believe, so you listen to it live or not at all.

If you look at it right now (3 pm EDT) it says "LIVE AUDIO 00:00" which means that you will get live audio at midnight their time which is 6 PM EDT.

Note that some web browsers can be grumpy about running their audio stream. I usually use Opera as my browser, but have to switch to Internet Explorer if I want to listen.

-LBJ

Frank Thompson
July 25th, 2005, 03:28 PM
I saw the 2 hours of the CBC coverage yesterday and they showed hardly any swimming. It was mostly synchronized swimming and diving. The last 5 minutes of the telecast they showed highlights including Michael Phelps 400 swim from the morning heats. They will telecast from 7 to 8 ET every night this week and I sure tonight they will start the swim events.

I didn't see FOX College Sports Net because I won't receive it until Tuesday. A friend of mine told me he saw yesterdays coverage and it was excellent. They did not interupt any of the races and showed the 400's completely.

geochuck
July 25th, 2005, 04:02 PM
Talking about coverage, my coach in the old days wrote up reports to the newspapers after and during meets. These articles were in the papers next day.

It is the swim officials responsibility to contact the press and to be in contact with the reporters so they can report. Who is a reporter you can contact about swimming? There has to be one. In Canada I know three that I can call and you will get immediate coverage if you want it.

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 25th, 2005, 04:50 PM
Originally posted by geochuck
Talking about coverage, my coach in the old days wrote up reports to the newspapers after and during meets. These articles were in the papers next day.

It is the swim officials responsibility to contact the press and to be in contact with the reporters so they can report. Who is a reporter you can contact about swimming? There has to be one. In Canada I know three that I can call and you will get immediate coverage if you want it.

FINA has an entire burreau dedicated to newsreleases. Worlds isn't on TV becaseu the networks are afraid no one will wacth. Or not enough. they are probably right. Just how many Americans even know it is going on. I really think that FINA has dropped the ball in how it promotes swimming. They are so busy wondering about how to write rules that they fail to get the real message out.

Peter Cruise
July 25th, 2005, 05:50 PM
FINA...and dropping the ball-isn't that redundant?

hrietz
July 25th, 2005, 10:01 PM
Originally posted by Frank Thompson


I didn't see FOX College Sports Net because I won't receive it until Tuesday. A friend of mine told me he saw yesterdays coverage and it was excellent. They did not interupt any of the races and showed the 400's completely.

It is very good. I'm glad that I paid the extra $5/month to subscribe. The male analyst leaves a little to be desired. He obviously isn't a swimmer. I was impressed that they showed the 400's in their entirety especially since there wasn't even a US woman in the 400 final. They also show the medal ceremonies. The real test will be tomorrow to see how much of the women's 1500 they show!!!

PeirsolFan
July 26th, 2005, 02:14 AM
Well you know how it is. If it's not pretty like figure skating the nation probably wont watch. But apparently golf and bowling are watchable (some things you'd rather do, not watch). I enjoy tennis coverage and will get up early to watch Wimbeldon live, but who else does? Wake up NBC.

As for Phelps, it's burnout and quite possibly his left shoulder again. He had noticble trouble with it during world trials. I don't think he knows how to have fun anymore. Who the heck writes their life story at 19?

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 26th, 2005, 10:57 AM
Last night while I was watching the Cubs win!!!!!!! I thought that maybe one reason swimming isn't covered in the US is because it isn't a done a finished. There are many events, heats, semifinals and finals. Maybe we can't follow all of that is happening. then I thought that possibly another reasonis that sports networks can't use there established sports reporters. Afterall do we really want the idiots at Cold Pizza to cover swimming and explaning what the rule is for backstroke turn?

scyfreestyler
July 26th, 2005, 11:15 AM
Originally posted by PeirsolFan


As for Phelps, it's burnout and quite possibly his left shoulder again. He had noticble trouble with it during world trials. I don't think he knows how to have fun anymore. Who the heck writes their life story at 19?

Burnout is a possibility as is a shoulder injury. After watching him stretch before a race in Santa Clara last month it amazes me that he has not had shoulder surgery already. How can a guy who holds the world record in the 400 IM not compete/rank in a 400 Free? Either a really bad morning or an injury. And now that you mention it, writing a life story at 19 is a bit strange. But then again, I am sure it paid pretty well and I may have done the same thing in his shoes.

ande
July 26th, 2005, 11:22 AM
how about that 22.9 50 LCM fly and Hansen's win in the 100 m br against Kosuke "dolphin kick" Kitajima
is that vindication or what?

A

Leonard Jansen
July 26th, 2005, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by PeirsolFan
As for Phelps, it's burnout and quite possibly his left shoulder again. He had noticble trouble with it during world trials. I don't think he knows how to have fun anymore. Who the heck writes their life story at 19?

Perhaps, but maybe his coach is having him do some other events and/or not train as hard as he could to prevent burnout. The next Olympics is till 3 years away, after all.

-LBJ

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 26th, 2005, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by Maryyyyyy
If you want to see video clips of each day's races, click here:

RAI CLICK (http://www.raiclicktv.it/raiclick/pc/website/0,4388,10-1430-1-CTY18-CID1430-0-1-0---1-1-ABB0,00.html)

click on "buongiorno Montreal"

then the date that interests you.

if you click on "pieno schermo" the film will fill your screen.

BUONA VISIONE!!

Mary,

I looked at the site you have listed as a place ot see daily swims. I can't read Italian. Is it possible for you to translate for me.:)

I studied three years of college French and Latin in high school . Why doesn't Italian look at least partly readable to me?

Frank Thompson
July 26th, 2005, 02:19 PM
I don't why everyone thinks there is something wrong with Phelps. Last night I saw his SF swim on CBC and he took his 200 Free out and did not hold back like I believe he did in the 400 Free. His time was 1:46.33 which is a qualifying best for a SF and a second ahead of everyone for tonights final. Judging from this swim, I think he will win tonight. I believe CBC is going to highlight this event because Brent Hayen made it to finals as a suprise in 6th and Ric Say who was suppose to make it did not.

Emillo Brembilla is the second qualifer and Australians Sprenger and Hackett are 3rd and 4th. Ryk Neethling is 5th, Lin Zhang from China is 7th and Peter VanderKay is 8th as the outside smoke.

On the CBC coverage last night they showed the Men's 400 Free Relay, Men' 50 Fly, Men's 200 Free semi of both heats. They showed the Men's 100 Back semi for both heats also. They finished up with the Women's 200 IM final where Katie Hoff set an American Record and recorded the 2nd fastest time in history.

The two events they did not show had World Record performances in them. Jessica Hardy in the 100 Breast SF, in which she shatted the American Record by almost a second. Hopefully, they will show the final tonight. And the Men's 100 Breast final, which I believe has become the hottest rivalry in swimming, replacing the Alexandar Popov vs Gary Hall Jr. one. I am hoping I can see this race as a rerun because we can see Brendan Hansen swim like he did at Long Beach last year.

The commentating is excellent. Steve Armitage and Bryon MacDonald really get into the swimming. Sometimes they mispronounce names but they do real well together as a team with play by play and analysis. They are a little different than NBC with Dan Hicks and Rowdy Gaines because they reverse roles sometimes and Hicks and Gaines usaually don't. I like both teams for different reasons.

With the sucess of this meet so far with World Records being set every day, maybe, just maybe FOX Sports might show some sort of tape delayed coverage of highlighted events on there main network at the end of August before College Football starts. I know that the 1991, 1994, and 1998 FINA World Championships were shown tape delayed with highlighted events shown only. In 2001, there was nothing from Fukoua, Japan for USA TV. ESPN and ESPN2 were excellent with there coverage in 2003, similar to what FOX College Sports Net is doing now.

knelson
July 26th, 2005, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by Frank Thompson
On the CBC coverage last night they showed the Men's 400 Free Relay...

I always enjoy the CBC coverage, but did find one thing odd last night. During the 400 free relay the commentators focused on the Canadian team, but the camera followed the U.S.!

It was nice to see the Canadians rebound with a silver after their disastrous performance last year in Athens.

geochuck
July 26th, 2005, 02:36 PM
Originally posted by knelson
I always enjoy the CBC coverage, but did find one thing odd last night. During the 400 free relay the commentators focused on the Canadian team, but the camera followed the U.S.!

It was nice to see the Canadians rebound with a silver after their disastrous performance last year in Athens. I thought the Canadians did well.

Jeff Commings
July 26th, 2005, 03:00 PM
Frank, the 100 breast did not feature a world record. But I would love to see it because I have never seen a sub-1:00 100m breast from start to finish. And to see this rivalry favor Hansen this time around would have been a joy. I was screaming for joy when I saw the live results yesterday. I would have had an aneurysm if I had been in the stands.

I'm hoping Hansen repeats his swim in Irvine, which I'm sure will be on TV.

Peter Cruise
July 26th, 2005, 03:15 PM
Kirk- the reason the cameras followed the winning relay is because believe it or not, the CBC is not the host broadcaster & has no control over those cameras (having only a few for interviews & broadcast announcers). The host broadcaster is Radio Canada, the french arm of the CBC which is automonous from them & enjoys nothing so much as poking a finger in the eye of the rest of Canada.

knelson
July 26th, 2005, 03:30 PM
Originally posted by Peter Cruise
Kirk- the reason the cameras followed the winning relay is because believe it or not, the CBC is not the host broadcaster & has no control over those cameras

I wondered if that was the case.

Frank Thompson
July 26th, 2005, 03:40 PM
Jeff:

You are correct. I saw the :59.37 and knew it was close not remembering the actual 1/100. Its great that Brendan Hansen swam well and Mark Gangloff qualified 1st in the heats for the SF tonight in the 50 Breast. His time of :27.49 was only .31 seconds from the World Record and .03 off the meet record.

I don't mean to high jack the thread but I noticed that you are third all time behind these two in the 100 Meter Breast in the 15-16 age group from the USA all time rankings. Brendan Hansen has a 1:02.69, then Mark Gangloff at 1:02.77 and then Jeff Commings at 1:02.94. You are in real good company ranked up there with these two.

geochuck
July 26th, 2005, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by knelson
I wondered if that was the case. I just wonder Peter do you really think that was the reason? They were shooting for the world, not Canada. Or is it our western Canadian hate of everything eastern Canada???

Peter Cruise
July 26th, 2005, 05:31 PM
George- who can really know? Everyone knew that relay was in with a good chance for 2nd- could be the CBC knew Radio Canada would be focusing only on 1st place & declined to send one more camera to isolate on Canadian relay ($$$) or just assumed Radio Canada would recognize the situation & respond themselves. I do know that there is absolutely no love lost between the two organisations.

Western Canada biased? Its love , peace & happiness out here on the left coast.

Jeff Commings
July 26th, 2005, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Frank Thompson
Jeff:

I don't mean to high jack the thread but I noticed that you are third all time behind these two in the 100 Meter Breast in the 15-16 age group from the USA all time rankings. Brendan Hansen has a 1:02.69, then Mark Gangloff at 1:02.77 and then Jeff Commings at 1:02.94. You are in real good company ranked up there with these two.

Thanks.

geochuck
July 26th, 2005, 10:38 PM
200 free what a swim by Phelps 1st. Hackett also 2nd Canadian 4th.

ande
July 27th, 2005, 10:15 AM
jessica Hardy from the US set a new world record in the womens 100 br in the semi finals. she went 1:06.20

ande

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 27th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Ande,

Did you see that for the first time CNN had a note on the bottom line about Worlds? I was really surprised that they had Hardy's swim. Finally a real mention about swimmign.

To those crazy Canadiens,

I used to know a woman who was a program manager for Radio Canada. She was Australian. I knew her when she lived in DC. Don't you know that your parliament sets the budget for both, and it is supposed to be relatively equal. It is based on poplulation. Vive Quebec! (only kidding).

geochuck
July 27th, 2005, 11:24 AM
Vive Quebec! (only kidding). You forgot the LIBRE, DeGaul (he actually said "Vive La Quebec Libre") he surely inflamed a country when he made that stament in Quebec.

You also spelled Canadians in french.

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 27th, 2005, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by geochuck
Vive Quebec! (only kidding). You forgot the LIBRE, DeGaul surely inflamed a country when he made that stament in Quebec.

My fahter's oldest sister ran off to England when she was 19 yrs old. She married a British soldier. They settled in Vancover in the 1950's. She died shortly after they got there. My uncle, before he died jopined some radical English language political party that was somewhat fascist. They wanted western Canada to declare its independence at cut out of the nation. He died inthe 70's. I don't know what ever happened to the party. When he would come here to visit he constantly made racist remarks about the ethnic make-up of this town where I live. Once we went to visit him. He made us sit through a cricket . Can you imagine trying to interest 6 US kids ranging in age of 17 to 5 (me) to watch a criket . I really thought I was going to die.

Oddly, I think Canada has its regional issues in much better check than we do here in the US have ours controlled.

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 27th, 2005, 11:31 AM
I'm sorry, at the time canada wasn't a nation. He thought that Canada should be forever directly controlled by the Queen. He didn't realize that Canada's rich heritage was worth keeping the country as a entity(sp). I didn't use Libre because I don't believe that.

geochuck
July 27th, 2005, 11:35 AM
There are two parties in Canada that would like to seperate and are very active now called (Pun) Conservative Party Of Canada the other the Block Quebecquois.

Peter Cruise
July 27th, 2005, 11:27 PM
Wow! I just watched on CBC the entire 800m free with Hackett shattering Thorpe's existing record. All by himself...at the 500 he was way ahead of world record pace & you could see (with swimmer's eyes) that he had paid a price for going out so fast, BUT through guts, technique & training he hung on and smoked the record...tremendous...makes me want to blow out my shoulders trying to emulate what I saw.

geochuck
July 27th, 2005, 11:52 PM
Just received 2 Emails from a journalist friend of mine in Tokyo, he wrote...

George,

1. I'm living in Tokyo and working as a
journalist. I recently saw a brief piece on you that
was produced by NHK. This got me to wondering if you
and Chucky were still alive and what you're up these
days.


2. It's a TV station run by the Japanese government, like
the CBC. I don't have any connections with the people
there although I know some of the writers for one of
the shows. The program was a Japanese language bit to
spark interest in swimming and build support for
Japanese swimmers.

Kerry
July 28th, 2005, 09:06 AM
There's a nice article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/27/AR2005072702551.html) (free registration required) in the Washington Post. It's mostly about Phelps, but I found the second part about Mark Warnecke more interesting:


Germany's Mark Warnecke, who competed in his first Olympics in 1988 and set the world record in the 50 breast 10 years ago, won the 50 breast final and became the oldest swimming world champion in history, at 35. Warnecke, a physician who said he trains just two hours a day, touched the wall in 27.63 seconds, topping American Mark Gangloff, who claimed his first major international medal (27.71).

"I like swimming, I like the sport," Warnecke said. "For me, it's just enough to swim here [at the world championships]. If you can swim here and not the masters' championships, why not here?"

Warnecke said he adds targeted weight training to the approximately 4,000 meters he swims daily.

"If you do it all together, you can swim fast in the 50," he said. "The 100 is more complex. . . . There you feel the age."

I thought this was very inspiring!

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 28th, 2005, 10:42 AM
Originally posted by Kerry
There's a nice article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/27/AR2005072702551.html) (free registration required) in the Washington Post. It's mostly about Phelps, but I found the second part about Mark Warnecke more interesting:



I thought this was very inspiring!

It used to be that the guy who covered sports like swimming for the Washingtonm post was a swimmer. He used to swim at Wilson High in Northwest. I'm checking to seeif it is the same guy. I can't remember his name though.

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 28th, 2005, 10:48 AM
for some reason, I just looked at FINA's sight to see about Wednesdays waterpolo match between USA & GEr. What a difficult site to explore. Has anyone else looked at it during the Worlds. It is so hard to get through.

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 28th, 2005, 11:05 AM
I just got an e-mail from a friend who lives in Montreal. Je ne lui a parle pas dans beaucoup des ans. He said that the competition is fantastque. His e-mail was all French. I haven't had to write or type in French in about 5 years. He saw Hackett live. He said it was the most incroyable swim he had ever seen! Looking at the splits on FINA's sight, I can't believe he was that much ahead of Jansen. C'est bien! He said that the kick was incredible and he couldn't believe how relaxed hackett looked during the entire swim.

I also looked at the Wahington post article, obviously, the guy I knew didn't write it.

Leonard Jansen
July 28th, 2005, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com
Looking at the splits on FINA's sight, I can't believe he was that much ahead of Jansen.

Well, if you can't beat me at 800m, you really don't belong at the world championships. Now, Jensen is another story entirely.:cool:

-LBJ

knelson
July 28th, 2005, 12:41 PM
Tres bien 800 m libre pour Hackett!

Seagurl51
July 28th, 2005, 12:54 PM
Pourquoi est tout le monde parler en Francais maintenant?

Matthias
July 28th, 2005, 12:55 PM
Originally posted by Kerry
There's a nice article (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/27/AR2005072702551.html) (free registration required) in the Washington Post. It's mostly about Phelps, but I found the second part about Mark Warnecke more interesting:


I thought this was very inspiring!

Yes, it was also very inspiring to me,too! If you look at Mark's training regime you see is clearly focused on quality over quanity work.
Did anyone see what a nice wave with his hips he had in is race. No wonder to me that he became a world champion with a technique as nice as this and such a good and steady rythm.
I surely will follow is workout regime the next week to work on my breast sprints.

brgds

matthias

Sam Perry
July 28th, 2005, 02:32 PM
Did anyone see what a nice wave with his hips he had in is race. No wonder to me that he became a world champion with a technique as nice as this and such a good and steady rythm.

Not to be negative here, but I think many people would be amazed if they saw the HUGE dolphin kick he (and many others) took off the start. I know the rules are changing, but it just amazes me that the judges still won't step out and make a call to DQ what is clearly illegal. Once the kick is made legal, what will be the next "technique" people will employ to bend the rules?

Again I am not trying to be overly negative, amazing result from a 35 year old and he is not the only one who kicked that way, I just feel there should be more accountability from judges so we don't have another fiasco like last summer.

If you notice all the rule changes in back and breaststroke that have happened over the past years are being done to eliminate "judgment" calls. It might seem logical to have two sets of world records, I can't imagine how fast a Rick Carey or Steve Lundquist could have been with the current rules.

Matthias
July 28th, 2005, 02:38 PM
Originally posted by Sam Perry
Not to be negative here, but I think many people would be amazed if they saw the HUGE dolphin kick he (and many others) took off the start.

No I didn't see it. Here on TV, they didn't show any underwater footage of the start, just the dive and a on top view of the field to show who had the best start. I will definitley have to find some underwater footage of this.

ande
July 28th, 2005, 08:51 PM
new world record in the womens 200 Fly

US women win 4 x 200 relay

phelps takes the 200 IM
lazlo czeh took out his 200 IM in 53.86

both piersol and hanson are in solid shape to take their respective titles

ande

hrietz
July 28th, 2005, 10:27 PM
Originally posted by ande
new world recod in the womens 200 IM

US women win 4 x 200 relay

phelps takes the 200 IM
lazlo czeh took out his 200 IM in 53.86

both piersol and hanson are in solid shape to take their respective titles

ande

What world record in the women's 200 IM??? Unfortunately Katie Hoff's 2:10.41 is just off the "tainted" 2:09 something of the Chinese swimmer who was later busted for 'roids...

tjrpatt
July 28th, 2005, 10:56 PM
That is a shame that Lochte only got third. I think that he did really well after doing the 200 backstroke like 5 minutes before that race. He should be able to win the 400 IM. I really like that he creeping up on Phelps and Peirsol. He just seems to be getting better and better.

No one was surprised that Phelps didn't medal in the 100 free. I think that he did really well to make finals at Worlds in his probably 10th best event.

ande
July 29th, 2005, 09:42 AM
i screwed up I meant to type 200 Fly not IM
I wrote it in a hurry, my wife got a new fancy camera and wanted the PC

ande


Originally posted by hrietz
What world record in the women's 200 IM??? Unfortunately Katie Hoff's 2:10.41 is just off the "tainted" 2:09 something of the Chinese swimmer who was later busted for 'roids...

geochuck
July 29th, 2005, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by ande
i screwed up I meant to type 200 Fly not IM
I did wrote it in a hurry, my wife got a new fancy camera and wanted the PC

ande We all make mistakes Ande, especiallly when we (wrote) write too fast. But who is write (right) or wrong I don't no (know)???

hrietz
July 29th, 2005, 10:24 AM
Interesting article in USA Today about why the US men haven't been as successful in the 100 free.

www.usatoday.com/sports/olympics/summer/2005-07-28-us-men-100free_x.htm

ande
July 29th, 2005, 10:53 AM
any one notice what schoeman took his 100 free out in?
22.42, I don't think i've ever seen anyone take out the 100 free that fast
he died bad
judging from his 50 fly and that 50 free split he should have an awesome 50 free. I don't think 21.6 is in danger, but he should break 22.00.

it's also interesting to study their splits

Magnini 23.14 24.98 48.12 1.84 diff
Schoeman 22.42 25.86 48.28 3.44 diff
Neethling 22.93 25.41 48.34 2.48 diff
Lezak 23.19 25.55 48.74 2.36 diff
Draganja 22.93 25.96 48.89 3.03 diff
Hayden 23.40 25.52 48.92 2.12 diff
Phelps 23.87 25.12 48.99 1.25 diff
Leveaux 23.86 25.69 49.55 1.83 diff

It's a shame walker didn't get to swim the 100 free
with his 47.70 relay split, i think he'd be around 48.6.

ande

justforfun
July 29th, 2005, 11:05 AM
I wanted to post something about Schoeman's splits as well. It's hard to be too critical of someone who swims a 48.2 no matter how he goes about doing it. But, I've got to believe he could break the world record if he would just hold back a tiny little bit the first 50. A 3.44 sec difference between the first and second 50's is too much. Schoeman has said that this is just the way he swims it. But, 100 meters LC is a long way with only 1 turn...too far to go all out the first 50. I think that if he would come closer to a 2.5 sec difference, he could be under 47.8.

By the way, he "only" went 22.4 in the 50 free prelims this morning. Maybe he should do his 50 to the feet.

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 29th, 2005, 11:19 AM
I think the article in USAToday was right on target. But also, the only coaches I've talked to say that there is so much pressure right now & popularity of the IM's that guys want to do those races and not the free sprints. It seems to me that the shorter distances are so heavily "marketed" and teams can get more points out of having sprinters that many teams are so heavily focused on IM & getting guys rto try stroke sprints. They'll get more points out of one guy.

Also, I looked at stills of sprints. In the 50s they are moving so fast that the camera shuttle cant' focus on them. It is incredible.

Frank Thompson
July 29th, 2005, 11:52 AM
I happen to see yesterdays coverage on FOX College Sports. Wow, what a difference from the CBC coverage. They are showing every event final and even the medal awards presentations. They hardly have any commericals and well worth the extra $4.95 per month. The swimming analysis is being done by Marianne Limpert, Canada's siver medalist in the 200 IM at the 1996 Olympics.

The best races of the night were the Women's 200 Fly, Men's 100 Free, and the Women's 800 Free Relay. The women's fly had both swimmers break the World Record and were only separated by .04. The 100 Free reminded me of Athens because Roland Schoeman went out fast and got passed at the flags just like last night. They flashed his split at the 50 and he was .74 below WR pace. I didn't expect Phelps to win this but he was close to his best time and had the 200 IM final later. They showed the Men's 200 Back and it appears that Aron Piersol would be the favorite with maybe challenges from Markus Rogan and Ryan Lochette. He like Phelps had the 200 IM final with only 2 heats of 200 Breast and he would be up.

The 200 IM was real interesting. It was the first time in at least 3 years that Phelps was behind on the first 3 legs. He actually out split Czeh on the breastroke which is something he had not done on the 2 previous times they raced. They hit the wall about even going into free and Phelps did his classic pushoff underwater and came up about a half body length on Czeh and that was pretty much the end of that challenge. Czeh seems to be weakest in Free because he seemed to have a big lead on Lochette and was getting caught as the race was coming to the wall. If that race would have been 2 meters more he would have had the silver. This sets up a great race for the 400 IM between these two. Lazlo Czeh has already gone 4:10 this year and I believe Lochette or anybody else is going to have to do that or better to beat this guy. I think Czeh suprised everyone going out the gate like that.

The Women's 800 Free Relay was a classic race. Katlin Sandeno reminded me of the Jenny Thompson of the 90's the way she swam that anchor leg. From the camera it looked like Natlie wasn't happy with her swim but the relay was within a half second of the WR from Athens and Natlie had a great split from that swim back then and I don't think she was as fast here but the other 3 probably were faster than the 2004 group.

Tonight we see the Men's 100 Fly semi final and see if it going to be Ian Crocker, Michael Phelps, or somebody else. The Women's 100 Free should be interesting also. I am wondering if the Men's 800 Free relay can break 7:07? I don't think anybody is going to challenge them. Australia could if they had Thorpe, but will be fighting for the silver with the rest. Also it will be interesting to see how Ryan Lochette does on the World stage in the 200 Back. He was great this past spring at NCAA's and wonder if he will put up a challenge to Aron Piersol and the rest of the field.

gull
July 29th, 2005, 12:18 PM
Thanks for the link. I thought this part was interesting, in light of the recent thread about scholarships awarded to foreign swimmers:

Dave Salo, who coaches Lezak, said the dearth of elite U.S. sprinters is partly because of the number of foreign athletes now recruited by U.S. college coaches. Schoeman and Neethling swam for the University of Arizona. Croatia's Duje Draganja, who finished fifth Thursday, swims for California.

"So much of the collegiate ranks are dominated by mature Europeans and foreign athletes that they're supplanting the American kids who aren't getting the chance to emerge as they get older," said Salo, the head U.S. men's coach in Montreal. "So we're truly not seeing a development of American sprinters in the collegiate ranks as we once used to do. Most of our dominance in the collegiate ranks for American guys has been in stroke events (breaststroke, backstroke and butterfly).

"But I think it takes a little bit more time to develop that sprinter, and I think (college coaches) are going to a more mature, little bit older European kid who's had a little bit more experience, who's coming to college at 20, 21, a little bit more seasoned veteran."

Jeff Commings
July 29th, 2005, 12:47 PM
I think, as I always have, that American collegiate sprinters can do nothing but benefit from having these fast, "mature" sprinters training with them.

If I were a sprinter training daily with Draganja or Schoeman or anyone else, I think I'd be motivated to step up my game and be as good as them, not only for national pride but to be able to feed off the energy.

But I think coaches don't give the right attention to some swimmers who could gain from the opportunity, and therefore they get burned out on trying to be a better sprinter.

justforfun
July 29th, 2005, 01:14 PM
Jeff,
I agree with all your comments, except for one thing. The U.S. sprinters could certainly benefit from training with Draganja and Schoeman in college, but what if the promising, young U.S sprinter doesn't get a scholarship to Cal or Arizona because they give a majority of their scholarships to the mature, more proven foreign athlete? Then, the U.S. sprinter goes somewhere else, doesn't get to train with the likes of Draganja and Schoeman, and doesn't benefit from the best coaching and facilities the U.S. has to offer.

Jeff Commings
July 29th, 2005, 01:16 PM
I can't speak for that swimmer that loses the scholarship, though I know that's a major issue these days.

If I were this person in theory, I'd go to the school on a smaller scholarship, strive to get better by training with the best and lobby at the end of the year for a bigger scholarship when/if I swim faster. There's nothing that says the coach can't increase your scholarship. They just can't decrease it (without major mitigating circumstances).

justforfun
July 29th, 2005, 01:23 PM
Taking a smaller, partial scholarship and working to earn a larger one is admirable and does happen. But, I'm also certain that many swimmers choose to go somewhere else because they can't afford to go to the school with the best swimming situation in the absence of significant scholarship support.

knelson
July 29th, 2005, 02:04 PM
Originally posted by gull80
"But I think it takes a little bit more time to develop that sprinter, and I think (college coaches) are going to a more mature, little bit older European kid who's had a little bit more experience, who's coming to college at 20, 21, a little bit more seasoned veteran."

These foreign swimmers are subject to the same NCAA rules as the U.S. kids and one of those rules is that you need to start your college swimming career within a year of graduating high school or you start losing eligibility.

ande
July 29th, 2005, 06:57 PM
whoa piersol breaks the world record in the 200 back
1:54.66
27.01 55.91 1:25.09 1:54.66

crocker went 51.19 in the 100 fly in the prelims

since phelps is swimming the 4 x 200 relay
he'll probably just swim the 100 fly fast and hard enough to make top 8 to conserve energy for the 200 free leg
the relay line up should be keller vanderkay lochte and phelps
they'll be fast

ande

Larry
July 29th, 2005, 10:44 PM
Fast they were:

MONTREAL, Canada, July 29. IT was a splendid foursome in Athens last summer and even better in Montreal. Never challenged, the United States roared to the gold medal on Friday night in the men’s 800-meter freestyle relay, using the same lineup that produced gold at the Olympic Games. The Americans were timed in 7:06.58, a new national record.

After Michael Phelps gave the U.S. a comfortable margin following a leadoff split of 1:45.51, Ryan Lochte handled the second leg in 1:48.22 before leaving matters to Peter Vanderkaay (1:46.52). Klete Keller anchored the unit in 1:46.33, putting the United States less than two seconds off of the world record of Australia (7:04.66).

tjrpatt
July 30th, 2005, 11:02 AM
By BETH HARRIS, AP Sports Writer Sat Jul 30, 7:04 AM ET

MONTREAL - Nearly a year after the Athens Olympics, American stars
Michael Phelps and
Natalie Coughlin are less motivated and in worse shape. Then there's
Aaron Peirsol. The 22-year-old American solidified his title as king of the backstroke by breaking his own world record in the 200 meters Friday at the World Swimming Championships.

An AP Sports Writer is saying that Natalie and Phelps are getting worse . I don't really think that they are getting worse. But, to say that Phelps is getting worse is crazy. He is just not having the great meet like in Athens. He had some injuries to deal with, relocated to Michigan and he had to deal with the DUI. The boy is still young and has many good years left. Plus, it is swimming different events here.

geochuck
July 30th, 2005, 11:12 AM
I saw pictures and videos of Phelps in Montreal, he looked drawn in the face.

But reporters say anything to get a kick at a person. I had the press after me for not trying when I was ill for a couple of years, they are heartless when they write or tell what they believe to be true even when it is not true.

Rich Abrahams
July 30th, 2005, 11:19 AM
It's a little premature (100 fly finals tonight), but at this point I'd say there is no one like Eddie Reese for getting the most from his swimmers. I'm really impressed.

On the other hand, I've felt for a while that Natalie could benefit from a change. All that talent needs better guidance, IMHO

craiglll@yahoo.com
July 30th, 2005, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by tjrpatt
By BETH HARRIS, AP Sports Writer Sat Jul 30, 7:04 AM ET

MONTREAL - Nearly a year after the Athens Olympics, American stars
Michael Phelps and
Natalie Coughlin are less motivated and in worse shape. Then there's
Aaron Peirsol. The 22-year-old American solidified his title as king of the backstroke by breaking his own world record in the 200 meters Friday at the World Swimming Championships.

An AP Sports Writer is saying that Natalie and Phelps are getting worse . I don't really think that they are getting worse. But, to say that Phelps is getting worse is crazy. He is just not having the great meet like in Athens. He had some injuries to deal with, relocated to Michigan and he had to deal with the DUI. The boy is still young and has many good years left. Plus, it is swimming different events here.

I wonder if the "10 pounds' of muscle that Phelps has put on since Athens has had an effect on him?

hrietz
July 30th, 2005, 11:52 AM
I think that the biggest problem with Natalie is lack of training. She was out of the water with a foot injury until January. Then because she was trying to graduate from Cal she was only doing one swimming workout/day (6:30-8:00 a.m.) and then Pilates in the afternoon. GOSH I do more than that so it is impressive that she has done as well at these World Champs as she has. I believe that her approach is a good one. I don't think that one can train with high intensity for the entire four year between Olympiads and the year after is probably the best one to "slack" some...

With that being said the Eddie Reese coached men are probably having the best meet of all especially when you consider in addition to Crocker, Hansen and Peirsol, the Neil Walker relay leg. I think that Crocker is going to kill Phelps in the 100 fly tonight and go below 51 with a possible new world record...

ande
July 30th, 2005, 12:00 PM
crocker seems to be holding back a little and finishing better
since we know he has 23.1 speed
at the olympics he was out in 23.5 when he had 23.3 speed
can't wait to read the results

i'd love to see him break his record
what if he obliterates it and becomes the first man under 50

ande


Originally posted by hrietz
I think that the biggest problem with Natalie is lack of training. She was out of the water with a foot injury until January. Then because she was trying to graduate from Cal she was only doing one swimming workout/day (6:30-8:00 a.m.) and then Pilates in the afternoon. GOSH I do more than that so it is impressive that she has done as well at these World Champs as she has. I believe that her approach is a good one. I don't think that one can train with high intensity for the entire four year between Olympiads and the year after is probably the best one to "slack" some...

With that being said the Eddie Reese coached men are probably having the best meet of all especially when you consider in addition to Crocker, Hansen and Peirsol, the Neil Walker relay leg. I think that Crocker is going to kill Phelps in the 100 fly tonight and go below 51 with a possible new world record...

tjrpatt
July 30th, 2005, 02:15 PM
With that being said the Eddie Reese coached men are probably having the best meet of all especially when you consider in addition to Crocker, Hansen and Peirsol, the Neil Walker relay leg. I think that Crocker is going to kill Phelps in the 100 fly tonight and go below 51 with a possible new world record... [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah, that Eddie Reese is one talented coach.

tjrpatt
July 30th, 2005, 02:17 PM
Does anyone think that Hackett can be stopped tomorrow night. Just wondering. It just seems that the Russian guy, Davies from Britain and the US guy are closing in on him.

ande
July 30th, 2005, 07:23 PM
how about crocker's 50.40 100 m fly?
what an incredible swim?

phelps was more than a second behind at 51.65

schoeman's 21.69 50 was quite awesome

jones 2:21.72 new world record in the 200 breast

hansen swam a solid 200 br 2:09.85
he was out very fast in 1:01.29

patrick
July 30th, 2005, 07:33 PM
Mens' 100 BU. I couldn't be happier. This wasn't even close...Can anyone remember when someone won a 100 in any stroke by such a margin (1.25) at a meet like this? The women's 800 just started, I think Zeigler can go under 8:20. And schoeman just off the WR in the 50 (.05). He has such a great start. I'm thinking Aaron is now the best backstroker of all time, ahead of Mathes and Naber.

patrick
July 30th, 2005, 07:44 PM
Zeigler won but wasn't close to 8:20, swam a 8:25.31. Out in a 2:03.53, second 200 was a 2:07, the third 2 a 2:08, and the last 200 came back in a 2:06.9. Reimer the silver and Olympic champ Shibata the bronze.

hrietz
July 30th, 2005, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by ande
how about crocker's 50.40 100 m fly?
what an incredible swim?

phelps was more than a second behind at 51.65

schoeman's 21.69 50 was quite awesome

jones 2:21.72 new world record in the 200 breast

hansen swam a solid 200 br 2:09.85
he was out very fast in 1:01.29

I think that the US should go with all Texas squad of Peirsol, Hansen, Crocker and Walker in the medley relay tomorrow. I suspect though that Lezak will get the nod for the final and Walker will be relegated to the prelims. What's scary is that I think that a US "B" team of Bal, Gangloff, Phelps and either Lezak or Walker could still win the title by a big margin...

The Aussie women have been amazing. The US women have some catching up to do...

PeirsolFan
July 31st, 2005, 08:24 AM
Makes you wonder what they put in the pool water at UT. Apparently, just music, which appears to work quite well.

I don't think anything is wrong per se with Phelps. Everyone is expecting and bracing themselves accordingly for him to get burned out or injured like his sister was. Coughlin may have been absent from training for several months but so was Peirsol.

He took 4 months off after Athens to travel and didn't really get back into his regular schedule for quite some time, which showed a bit in Santa Clara (5th in the 200 prelim, 13th in the 100.) Yikes! After that, he got serious again.

Coughlin sounds depressed in interviews - like she counts herself out before the meet even starts. Rogan has also done that, by telling the media days before the meet, that he didn't think he could beat Peirsol. He can, he just doesn't believe it.

tjrpatt
July 31st, 2005, 09:07 AM
Peirolfan,
you are right on the money with all your observations. I heard that Peirsol did take time off after Athens. Coughlin just needs to get her confidence back to where she broke her world records because she did seem on edge at Athens. Phelps is doing fine. To be able to place at Worlds in your 10th fastest event(100 free) is a pretty amazing feat to me.

tjrpatt
July 31st, 2005, 06:33 PM
Lochte only got 5th in the 400IM but it seems like a best time for him. I guess that he has alot more work to do in the 400 IM to medal at world events. He is on point in the 200IM as we know from Athens. He is gradually becoming a tour de force in swimming. Lazlo better watch out in the coming months and years.

justforfun
August 1st, 2005, 10:46 AM
I think Phelps was smart to focus on different events this year. He did do personal bests in both 100-200 frees after all (who knows what happened in the 400--hopefully he'll swim it again at the Duel in the Pool). Although the press has beaten on him a bit, it's good that perhaps the expectations have been lowered just a touch. He and Bowman had to know that it wasn't likely he would win the 100 and 400, so I think this summer was a calculated move to take some of the spotlight off of him. I think we'll see him gradually come back to his strengths leading up to 2008 and he'll have another monster Olympics.

As for Coughlin...who knows? I hope she can come back to her 2002 form when she was breaking world or American records in almost everything she swam. She's a key piece if the American women want to compete with Australia in the 400 relays. I don't know the reason, but I'm afraid Coughlin's best swimming is in the past.

craiglll@yahoo.com
August 1st, 2005, 11:06 AM
All of the kids i know are talking about allof the pics of Phelps & Jeri Moss(?sp). There is a pic on Yahoo of them kissing after the men's 400 relay.

SwiminONandON
August 1st, 2005, 11:13 AM
I'll be interested to see how Coughlin does down the road ... everyone has bumps in the road. Maybe she just can't afford to take the time off that others can (mainly Peirsol). She took time off, was injured, graduated, etc. She did well, just not up to her usual standard. She needs to get her confidence back.

It'll be interesting to see how Amanda does down the road. If all the time she took off will help or hurt. Sometimes it's good to let your body rest and recover. Even if she doesn't maket he 08 team (and I think she will if she wants to) she'll have had a phenomenal career.

Peirsol is so far ahead of everyone else that I think he could afford to take time off. I think he was surfing and staying in shape in other ways. However, I think he knows that he'll have to get his butt back into doubles if he wants to stay ahead of the rest of the world down the road.

I was surprised at how well Kaitlin swam. After her subpar (for her) performance at trials I didn't have high hopes. She did awesome, especially in the relay. The 400IM is a tough race and the time off hurt her more in that event, still not a bad race.

I think Katie Hoff is a phenom. She's just going to get better and better. I think she could break the world record in both IMS.

As for Phelps, he didn't have a bad meet. He tried out some "off" events and other than the 400 had decent success. I don't think he'll burn out or get injured. They seemed to have dealt with his injury really well. They played around with his events to see where he was against the rest of the world in those events and to see what he should focus on leading upto Beijing. He's a competitor he'll be fine. It also was probably nice to spice up his schedule a bit.

Jessica Hardy and Kate Zeigler! Wow! These two are going be the future of US Swimming. (along with Hoff) Awesome!

Hansen, so happy for him! Crocker, YEAH! Well deserved BIG time win in the 100 fly. I hope his success continues. Would love to see him go under :50!

SwiminONandON
August 1st, 2005, 11:20 AM
Y'all know i have to ask ... where is this picture?

Kerry
August 1st, 2005, 12:23 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/photo/050801/ids_photos_sp/r4160603808.jpg

More good photos here:

http://news.yahoo.com/photos/sm/events/sp/071905worldaquatic

tjrpatt
August 1st, 2005, 12:49 PM
http://us.news3.yimg.com/us.i2.yimg.com/p/rids/20050801/i/r4240115244.jpg?x=284&y=345&sig=sMYXZWqUX_av5qK0fwslbg--

Here is another pic of Phelps and Moss.

Frank Thompson
August 1st, 2005, 01:47 PM
CraigIII:

It looks like the kids your talking about have provided some evidence of this. Especially photo's #28, #36, and #37 of the Yahoo FINA World Swimming Championships photo's.

scyfreestyler
August 1st, 2005, 02:05 PM
Well, something is going on between those two. Good for him but I suspect there are many a broken heart across the nation that belong to young girls who thought that they could somehow be the one. :)

tjrpatt
August 1st, 2005, 05:09 PM
All these young starlets' loss and this Jeri Moss's gain. That is nice if someone is going on and of course. They overthrew Sandeno and Lochte and the top USA Swimming couple. Is that still going on.

Jeff Commings
August 1st, 2005, 08:26 PM
There is always a large amount of "hooking up" after international meets. You've been with these people for a while (sometimes more than a month), and a connection is made. Not to mention the fact that you've been tapering and have abstained for the big meet. Teenage (and older) hormones running wild, and the thrill of the meet finally being over will do some things to your body.

But these guys have Duel in the Pool tomorrow, as well as nationals for some. They have a little longer to wait.

geochuck
August 1st, 2005, 08:37 PM
Every one reads something from a picture, and you cannot even believe every thing you see. I was with a friend who was married and his wife was staying in the women's quarters of the camp. I boosted him up so he could get in to see his wife. Another swimmer saw this and the rumor in the camp was that George slept in the womens quarters and had an affair with an Australian female swimmer. It was not true.

knelson
August 2nd, 2005, 12:15 AM
Originally posted by Jeff Commings
Not to mention the fact that you've been tapering and have abstained for the big meet.

Abstained for the big meet? Did they teach you these old wives tales at Texas? ;)

PeirsolFan
August 2nd, 2005, 02:54 AM
I've seen equally warm fuzzy pics of Phelps with Beard. It's just a big family. They've all known each other for years and years.

SwiminOn - With Natalie it's just hard to pinpoint the problem. From the Olympic website: "...in 1998 she became the first person to ever qualify for Nationals in every event, every distance, and every stroke." Poised to be another Phelps almost.

There's no abstaining for the big meet... Not at the Olympics, anyway. http://www.ledger-enquirer.com/mld/ledgerenquirer/sports/9284244.htm

craiglll@yahoo.com
August 2nd, 2005, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by PeirsolFan
I've seen equally warm fuzzy pics of Phelps with Beard. It's just a big family. They've all known each other for years and years.

[/URL]

I only brought up the pics because there are several of them and I know about 10 to 15 young guys who have some really wild things to say about Michael. I've probably heard more rumors about him then any other sports "star." One pic is far further than "warm and fuzzy." It shoudl be used to stop some of the rumors.

scyfreestyler
August 2nd, 2005, 11:36 AM
Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com
I only brought up the pics because there are several of them and I know about 10 to 15 young guys who have some really wild things to say about Michael. I've probably heard more rumors about him then any other sports "star." One pic is far further than "warm and fuzzy." It shoudl be used to stop some of the rumors.

It sounds as if you are reffering to rumors of sexual preference. I wound imagine that somebody who spends as much time in the spotlight as Michael would have a very hard time concealing something like that. However, does it really matter if he is?

craiglll@yahoo.com
August 2nd, 2005, 11:45 AM
Originally posted by 330man
It sounds as if you are reffering to rumors of sexual preference. I wound imagine that somebody who spends as much time in the spotlight as Michael would have a very hard time concealing something like that. However, does it really matter if he is?

Most of the rumors are not what you are suggesting. Instead that he is extremely easy.

scyfreestyler
August 2nd, 2005, 11:52 AM
Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com
Most of the rumors are not what you are suggesting. Instead that he is extremely easy. Oh, I see. Now that is something a bit more shameful.

ande
August 2nd, 2005, 12:15 PM
extremely easy?
What's the big deal?
He's a 19 year old kid
so what if he has a little fun
who cares what consenting adults do in private

looking back on your younger years
do you wish you had
a. more fun
b. about the same or
c. less fun

he's a remarkable swimmer.

ande


Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com
Most of the rumors are not what you are suggesting.
Instead that he is extremely easy.

scyfreestyler
August 2nd, 2005, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by ande
extremely easy?
What's the big deal?
He's a 19 year old kid
so what if he has a little fun
who cares what consenting adults do in private

looking back on your younger years
do you wish you had
a. more fun
b. about the same or
c. less fun

he's a remarkable swimmer.

ande Remarkable swimmer no doubt. Now, putting Michael aside, why is it that when women are "easy" it's a problem but when men do it they are just having fun? Running around jumping in the sack with anybody who is willing is not a desirable trait and is usually a symptom of low self-esteem. Is being "easy" something that you wish your kids to aspire to?

ande
August 2nd, 2005, 12:28 PM
Abstaining for competition is a myth. I've been thinking about writing about this topic as a SFF tip or a separate thread.

a little extra curricular activity isn't likely to hurt an athletes performance and may actually help, as long as the athlete gets a decent amount of sleep and doesn't pull an all nighter. It calms the nerves.

ande


Originally posted by Jeff Commings
There is always a large amount of "hooking up" after international meets. You've been with these people for a while (sometimes more than a month), and a connection is made. Not to mention the fact that you've been tapering and have abstained for the big meet. Teenage (and older) hormones running wild, and the thrill of the meet finally being over will do some things to your body.

But these guys have Duel in the Pool tomorrow, as well as nationals for some. They have a little longer to wait.

scyfreestyler
August 2nd, 2005, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by ande
Abstaining for competition is a myth. I've been thinking about writing about this topic as a SFF tip or a separtate thread.

a little extra curricular activity isn't likely to hurt an athletes performance and may actually help, as long as the athlete gets a decent amount of sleep and doesn't pull an all nighter. It calms the nerves.

ande Amen.

ande
August 2nd, 2005, 12:39 PM
Personally, I don't slap that label on women or believe in the the stud / slut thing. We all have choices, we make decisions, take actions and those actions have consequences.

I hope people regard intimacy as a special thing, that isn't rushed into. It changes relationships and can set off a flurry of positive and negative emotions.

I hope my children don't aspire to be easy, we've kept them very busy, it's hard for them to be easy.

I've heard nothing about Phelps antics. Though my guess is he's presented with more opportunities than most because of being a celebrity.

ande



Originally posted by 330man
Remarkable swimmer no doubt. Now, putting Michael aside, why is it that when women are "easy" it's a problem but when men do it they are just having fun? Running around jumping in the sack with anybody who is willing is not a desirable trait and is usually a symptom of low self-esteem. Is being "easy" something that you wish your kids to aspire to?

lefty
August 2nd, 2005, 12:40 PM
Originally posted by 330man
Remarkable swimmer no doubt. Now, putting Michael aside, why is it that when women are "easy" it's a problem but when men do it they are just having fun? Running around jumping in the sack with anybody who is willing is not a desirable trait and is usually a symptom of low self-esteem. Is being "easy" something that you wish your kids to aspire to?

The difference between men and women being easy is that our system (right or wrong) is such that a mother carries more responsibility to her child than the father and humans base their moral judgements of an action on its consequences, not the inherent good or bad nature.

As for your wild speculation of Phelps' sex life and self-esteem, I am reminded of a quote from Good Morning Vietnam. I won't tell you what it is, but it has the word "dire" in it.

DanSad
August 2nd, 2005, 12:45 PM
Semi related topic... Maybe he's young and I'm getting old but does anyone feel that heavy swim training has a negative effect on libido?

scyfreestyler
August 2nd, 2005, 12:48 PM
Originally posted by lefty
The difference between men and women being easy is that our system (right or wrong) is such that a mother carries more responsibility to her child than the father and humans base their moral judgements of an action on its consequences, not the inherent good or bad nature.

As for your wild speculation of Phelps' sex life and self-esteem, I am reminded of a quote from Good Morning Vietnam. I won't tell you what it is, but it has the word "dire" in it.

Did I not specifically say, "putting Michael aside" before commenting on self esteem issues? What "wild speculation" did I make about the man's sex life?

My suggestion is actually a very common reason for people to be over eager to become intimate.

Lastly, please share your quote. The suspense is just killing me.:rolleyes:

Jeff Commings
August 2nd, 2005, 01:20 PM
I knew about the abstaining thing before college, but I was never told it was a myth until I was about 23. Not that I was really missing out all those years before that.

In any case, there's a clause in the papers you sign when you are about to depart for a major international meet that you can't have sex ... with a member of the opposite sex. They word it as "No members of the opposite sex shall occupy the same room with the doors closed." If it happens, I really do believe they kick you off the team.

But if you're gay, it's open season!!!!! :p

ande
August 2nd, 2005, 02:05 PM
he can't really write the quote here
but if you google
dire "good morning vietnam"

you will find what you seek

ande


Originally posted by 330man
Lastly, please share your quote. The suspense is just killing me.:rolleyes:

ande
August 2nd, 2005, 02:12 PM
It depends where you are in the training cycle
if you're ramping up into heavy traning you may find yourself more fatigued and less in the mood.

where as if you're accustomed to heavy training
it's just another day at the office.

if you're coming down from heavy training during a taper, you might feel an increase in energy.

typically the swimmers i've known have a
work hard
play hard
party hard mentality

They wouldn't let a tough work out get in the way of an opportunity to frolick.

Though as I age tough training tends to take a toll.

Ande


Originally posted by DanSad
Semi related topic...
does anyone feel that heavy swim training has a negative effect on libido?

scyfreestyler
August 2nd, 2005, 02:13 PM
I now know of the quote and without revealing specifics, it does not apply to me but I appreciate your concern just the same lefty.:D

lefty
August 2nd, 2005, 02:51 PM
Originally posted by 330man
Did I not specifically say, "putting Michael aside" before commenting on self esteem issues? What "wild speculation" did I make about the man's sex life?

My suggestion is actually a very common reason for people to be over eager to become intimate.

Lastly, please share your quote. The suspense is just killing me.:rolleyes:

330 man:

When someone says something like, "I do not want to preach, but..." preaching is EXACTLY what they want to do. So just because you said "putting Micheal aside" does not absolve you. If your comments had nothing to do with Micheal, then why would you have posted them in this context? That said, I was just having some fun with you. I apologize! And I did not mean the Good Morning Vietnam thing. I was just trying to amuse myself and the others who appreciate that movie!

Jeff:

Regarding the the opposite sex not allowed in the room rule: somewhere in there is a joke about divers...

PeirsolFan
August 2nd, 2005, 06:28 PM
Originally posted by craiglll@yahoo.com
I only brought up the pics because there are several of them and I know about 10 to 15 young guys who have some really wild things to say about Michael. I've probably heard more rumors about him then any other sports "star." One pic is far further than "warm and fuzzy." It shoudl be used to stop some of the rumors.

Phelps had a huge crush on Lindsay Lohan after the Olympics. :( He didn't know she had a boyfriend and was a (gasp) smoker. Poor guy was terribly embarassed. Her loss!

tjrpatt
August 2nd, 2005, 06:36 PM
I think that Phelps was hitting himself over the head that he had a crush on her after seeing her new horrible look. Male Swimmers are still being discriminated by the starlets in the states. If he was the best football or baseball player, they would be calling him every night and flying into Michigan every weekend like they do for Tom Brady. Also, don't forget that Jenna Bush turned him down, what was she thinking. Then again, he is better off.

Blue Horn
August 2nd, 2005, 06:47 PM
How can you smoke and make the national team? Those are some serious lungs. Can you imagine how well she would do if she stopped smoking? I don't think I have ever heard of her, what events does she swim?

Hook'em
Blue

SwiminONandON
August 2nd, 2005, 07:41 PM
Blue Lohan is an actress ...

As for the partying ... all the athletes I know party hard.

Never heard about Sandeno and Locthe?! She was with some baseball player for ages ... hmm ...

As for Phelps and Moss I doubt they are together but who cares if they are.

There is plenty of bed hopping after most NCAA championships, too ... in fact in college in general there was a lot of bed hopping ... hmmm ...

I am sure that the athletes that aren't swimming at Nationals will have themselves a good ole time tonight, tomorrow, and probably for the rest of the week ... they deserve it ... work hard, play hard, party hard is a fantastic motto ...

tjrpatt
August 2nd, 2005, 08:14 PM
Before I went to college, I would never thought that swimmers smoke but at my college team, there were like 10 people on the team that smoked. Of course, I was in a state of shock. This one teammmate probably a half of pack of cigarettes a day but he would do a low 3:50s in the 400y IM and about low 1:50s in his 200 fly. So, smoking didn't phase some of these swimmers abilities and they didn't have any problems during practice. This one girl on my team was under 2:10 in her 200y back and under 2:10 for her 200Y IM.