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BillS
August 1st, 2005, 12:04 PM
Working on learning the fly for a couple months now. I swim in a short course meters pool. My stroke count for 25m is 8. Last time I swam, I realized I was probably pulling too hard on the pulldown. I backed the pull off a notch, which made my stroke feel a whole lot smoother and easier, but I still hit the wall in 8 strokes. I'm wondering if I shouldn't try and increase the turnover rate and take another stroke or two rather than lunging for all I'm worth on every stroke? Or is 8 about right?

Not a whole lot of flyers in my pool on my lunch swims for me to watch or compare myself to, and I'm self coached, so while "Your results may vary," I'm interested in what others are doing. I'm a 6'2" 44 year old guy (who's probably too old to be trying to learn new tricks, but is).

Thanks.

Rob Copeland
August 1st, 2005, 12:52 PM
I’ve got about 4 years and an inch (in height) on you and I typically take around 8 to 9 strokes per 25. However, with a long breakout and a long glide at the top of my stroke I can easily get this down to 4 per length. So the real factor with fly is not strokes per length but fluidity. And “lunging for all I'm worth on every stroke” doesn’t seem like a nice rolling fly stroke.

There have been a few threads on this forum discussing butterfly and there are lots of good books and videos available. But, my advice to you would be to find a good coach or hook up with a club or take some private lessons. While it’s never easy to self-coach you can always learn new tricks.

mattson
August 2nd, 2005, 12:22 PM
Originally posted by BillS
I backed the pull off a notch, which made my stroke feel a whole lot smoother and easier, but I still hit the wall in 8 strokes.

Congratulations! Anytime you can cover the same distance with fewer heartbeats exerted, that is a major gain. You'll be able to swim strong fly for more of your race (before the piano is dropped on your back).

In the TI book, the goal is not necessarily to swim with the minimum possible strokes (maximum possible stroke length). You do try to improve that, but also try to minimize the difference when you are sprinting versus your regular stroke. (Are you staying efficient at higher speeds?)

BillS
August 3rd, 2005, 12:45 PM
Thanks for helping me to remember that fly is all about rhythm. When I get it going, it feels great, but it kind of comes and goes for this beginner. After thinking some about Rob's comment, I had a day where it all felt good -- and then the next day that rhythm could not be found anywhere in my stroke. And so it goes.

My local masters swim at 6 am, which is when I'm sipping coffee desperately trying to recover from yet another night of sleepus interruptus courtesy of my 5 and 2 year old. I have had less than a handful of full 8 hour sleeps since the oldest was born. But I'm hoping to get with the team program in the fall to get some coaching and maybe a competition or two.

I just wanted to see if 8 strokes was in the general ballpark; sounds like it is. Although when I hit the magic rhthym, it dropped to 7 with less effort. So clearly there is room for improvement.

The TI stuff really resonated with me for my free, but not as much yet for the fly. But I'll rent the video and check it out.