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cinc3100
August 10th, 2002, 02:42 AM
I read Jenny Thompson conparing herself to other famous swimmers and track people. She forgot to include Shirley Babashoff, another swimmer who won 8 medals in two olympics, Probably to many swimmers today Babashoff and most swimmers prior to 1980 are not known to them. I guess that most of the 1950's swimmers and some of the early 1960's swimmers are not known to me either. But she did mention Mary T Meagher and Tracey Caulkins that came in the generation after Shirley. Oh,well. Maybe, many of us in masters might look up information on the olympics in swimming prior to 1968. And the master swimmers that are younger need to learn about those those olympic swimmers prior to 1984.

strong440
August 11th, 2002, 06:45 PM
Well, since there were no olympics in 1940, I don't guess most of the world heard about Patty Aspinall or would even know if I spelled her surname correctly. But, since it was enough before June Krauser's time, she was the only swimmer that we Hoosiers were aware of in those days.

Ion Beza
August 11th, 2002, 09:55 PM
I know that Shirley Babashoff got silver in 100 free in 1972 Olympics and silvers in 200 free in 1972 Olympics and in 1976 Olympics.
She, and others, are not forgotten:
I see them constantly in swimming data, since I started to learn swimming in 1984, and competing in 1986.

I wonder how today's many people, and me, would compare athletically with the best athletes from a past era.

Thus I discovered, that way before the fast 1940s, Dick Cavill (Aus) and Freddy Lane (Aus) broke one minute in 100 yards, in 1902, with a style still not perfectly refined.

In 1907, Charles Daniels (US), in a today's freestyle with a 6-beat kick, swam 100 yards in 55.4.
His best 100 yards free, was in 1910 at 54.8.
In 1908 in the Olympic Games, he swam a 100 meters, in 1:05.6, good for gold.
His best 100 meter free, was in 1910 at 1:02.8.

Looking at pictures of Daniels, 6'3", 190 pounds, at pictures of Cecil Healy (Aus/NZL) who swam 1:04.6 in 1912 Olympics, at pictures from 1904 of Goodwin (US), Ruddy (US), Handley (US), and at pictures of 6'1/2" Kahanamoku (US) from 1912, I think they would easily fit in a today's environment for top world swimming.

So much for thinking that all people from past eras were weaklings compared with today's people:
they, even when not removed from their past environment but more so if transplanted in a today's environment, would kick many of today's people rears.

cinc3100
August 11th, 2002, 11:32 PM
Charles Daniels was tall for his era. Probably, the average male american of europeian stock was only around 5'7" in the early part of the 20th century. I do know that both american presidents Washington and Lincoln were tall and also over 6 foot. In my state of Arizona, I know of two ex-olympians doing masters. C Taylor a breastroker from 1948 and Jane Swagerty Hill, a backstroker from 1968. In C taylor's day, a women from the Netherlands won the 200 meter breastroke at 2:57.2. In today's world, some 9 or 10 year old girl probably holds the american record for 9-10 year olds at a faster time. How girls at that age that are small are able to beat several teenagers and adults I don't understand. I did meet Lance Larson when I was on a team in Hunington Beach years ago and he was in the Rome olympics.

cinc3100
August 12th, 2002, 01:47 AM
Also, I was remembering a funny size to olympic swimming. Anyone remember the first olympics TV movie about the olympics in Athens in 1896. The us swimmer didn't want to swim because the lake was cold. His track teammates pushed him into the lake. Remains me of some of the pools I swam in as a teenager. Some of them were pretty cold.

Wethead
February 27th, 2010, 07:04 PM
Well, since there were no olympics in 1940, I don't guess most of the world heard about Patty Aspinall or would even know if I spelled her surname correctly. But, since it was enough before June Krauser's time, she was the only swimmer that we Hoosiers were aware of in those days.


Last time I looked Patty was alive & well as Patty Reel. I am new to this forum and in 90-94 age group but had daughter with Patty at the Riviera Club. Tom Haver tgir2@cox.net

jonblank
March 2nd, 2010, 09:43 AM
Last time I looked Patty was alive & well as Patty Reel. I am new to this forum and in 90-94 age group but had daughter with Patty at the Riviera Club. Tom Haver tgir2@cox.net

Sounds as if the Riviera Club was a fun place to be - rather an all-encompassing club, if I read your post correctly.

BigNoodler
March 2nd, 2010, 10:06 AM
I guess I'm a *younger* masters swimmer at 37 but I just finished the book America's Girl: The Incredible Story of How Swimmer Gertrude Ederle Changed the Nation. That is one tough cookie! In 1926 she was the first woman to make it across the English Channel AND she also broke the men's record. She overcame everything from incompetent coaches; a failed first attempt; the tough seas, cold waters, sharks and weather conditions; leaky goggles; terrible swim suit issues; gender discrimination; and she was almost deaf to boot! No need for me to be reminded to never whine about anything that goes on during swim practice. Sheesh!!! I need to HTFU!

orca1946
March 2nd, 2010, 02:29 PM
Old is always 10 years older than you are when you say it !

Allen Stark
March 2nd, 2010, 04:58 PM
I guess I'm a *younger* masters swimmer at 37 but I just finished the book America's Girl: The Incredible Story of How Swimmer Gertrude Ederle Changed the Nation. That is one tough cookie! In 1926 she was the first woman to make it across the English Channel AND she also broke the men's record. She overcame everything from incompetent coaches; a failed first attempt; the tough seas, cold waters, sharks and weather conditions; leaky goggles; terrible swim suit issues; gender discrimination; and she was almost deaf to boot! No need for me to be reminded to never whine about anything that goes on during swim practice. Sheesh!!! I need to HTFU!

I understand she actually invented the 2 piece suit by ripping the middle out of her suit because it chafed too much.

JimRude
March 2nd, 2010, 05:08 PM
I guess I'm a *younger* masters swimmer at 37...

No, BN, you are old. In great shape, yes, but still old...:cane:

knelson
March 2nd, 2010, 05:50 PM
I guess there are lots of books about Ederle lately. I just read one a few months ago called "The Great Swim" by Gavin Mortimer. Ederle was the focus, but Mortimer also spends a fair amount of time on the other ladies who made attempts that same summer.

When Ederle completed her swim it was a huge story, yet sadly Ederle really wasn't able to capitalize on her new found fame all that well. I believe she died destitute.

Peter Cruise
March 3rd, 2010, 12:20 AM
I started a thread awhile back called 'The social history of swimming' which invited memories to be shared of experiences from previous eras of swimming. There is still many older swimmers out there with anecdotes to share; pure gold that could just disappear. Think of what a contentious era we are in right now with the tech suit stuff etc., which may be incomprehensible to future swimmers without the (prolific!) writings on the subject surviving. I am sure there were equally burning subjects 'back in the day'; these older swimmers aren't getting any younger and many of them are shy of the internet, so if any of you can elicit from them such memories, please share them.

knelson
March 3rd, 2010, 12:23 AM
It's a great idea, Peter. Maybe you should become the Studs Terkel of swimming!

BigNoodler
March 3rd, 2010, 11:49 AM
I guess there are lots of books about Ederle lately. I just read one a few months ago called "The Great Swim" by Gavin Mortimer. Ederle was the focus, but Mortimer also spends a fair amount of time on the other ladies who made attempts that same summer.

When Ederle completed her swim it was a huge story, yet sadly Ederle really wasn't able to capitalize on her new found fame all that well. I believe she died destitute.

Thanks. Would like to read that one as well. As Trudy's niece Mary Ederle Ward co authored America's Girl, as you might imagine, it was not pitched that she died destitute. Rather it's claimed that she lived a full life and lived to the old age of 98. So who really knows? Author Dahlberg also focused on some other women who attempted the swim during the same summer. Agreed that Ederle did not fully capitalize on her fame.

Allen Stark
March 3rd, 2010, 09:12 PM
It's a great idea, Peter. Maybe you should become the Studs Terkel of swimming!
Peter already is the Studs Terkel of swimming.

BillS
March 3rd, 2010, 11:10 PM
Thanks. Would like to read that one as well. As Trudy's niece Mary Ederle Ward co authored America's Girl, as you might imagine, it was not pitched that she died destitute. Rather it's claimed that she lived a full life and lived to the old age of 98. So who really knows? Author Dahlberg also focused on some other women who attempted the swim during the same summer. Agreed that Ederle did not fully capitalize on her fame.

OK,that's it...I guess I'm done reading your posts just to get another look at your a(b)vatar. This new one is a bit off-putting. So ends an era.

Maybe think about bringing back the electric green platform pumps?

That Guy
March 4th, 2010, 01:48 AM
Maybe think about bringing back the electric green platform pumps?

I think creepy stuff like this is why shepuffnoodler keeps re-entering witness protection and assuming new identities.

BigNoodler
March 4th, 2010, 10:03 AM
OK,that's it...I guess I'm done reading your posts just to get another look at your a(b)vatar. This new one is a bit off-putting. So ends an era.

Maybe think about bringing back the electric green platform pumps?

Yes, I went more from a Fortress-ess avatar to a Paul Smith type avatar. But great idea - next shot will be a shoe shot!
Oh, and I credit Kirk for this avatar. So thank him. :)