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dreamer
August 21st, 2005, 06:34 PM
Hey everyone. I was checking out FINA's Masters swimming section. out of curiosity I clicked on their link about the rules (provided below). This one I don't understand how it can be done, can someone clarify?

"MSW 3.10 A breaststroke kicking movement is permitted for butterfly."

[URL=http://www.fina.org/mastersrules_2.html]

So can you have a breastroke kick with butterfly arms? Sounds cumbersome to me....

geochuck
August 21st, 2005, 06:54 PM
That is the way it was done in the 50s Then the fishtail, then the dolphin. In fact it was one event breaststroke was either fly or breaststroke with a breaststroke kick. You can even to this day swim double arm backstroke using a breaststroke kick.

aquageek
August 21st, 2005, 07:15 PM
It's called the butterfrog.

Maryyyyyy
August 22nd, 2005, 04:41 AM
Originally posted by geochuck
That is the way it was done in the 50s Then the fishtail, then the dolphin. In fact it was one event breaststroke was either fly or breaststroke with a breaststroke kick. You can even to this day swim double arm backstroke using a breaststroke kick.

ditto...

a lot of the over-60 swimmers on my team, and all over Italy do this version both of butterfly and backstroke. It's slower, but will get you farther with less fatigue.

One of our M90-94's who has a bunch of European records uses these stroke methods.

At the recent European Championships in Stockholm he just made this European record:

Aldo Caputi 200 IM 90-94 5:43.35

pmbchill
August 22nd, 2005, 07:05 AM
So can you have a breastroke kick with butterfly arms? Sounds cumbersome to me.... [/B][/QUOTE]


You youngster! I'm 48 and I remember having to switch from breaststroke kick to dolphin kick when I was 11 in 1968. I thought the world was ending because I had a really strong breaststroke kick. Now I can't imagine trying to use a kick other than dolphin.

craiglll@yahoo.com
August 22nd, 2005, 10:47 AM
Many people forget that the breast stroke & the butterflystroke, at one time, used to be thought of as the same stroke.

dreamer
August 22nd, 2005, 01:07 PM
hmm very very interesting, thanks 4 the info. i'll try it this week, especially since my breastroke kick is much better than my dolphin kick. . :cool:

ljlete
August 22nd, 2005, 08:28 PM
Can I add a little bit of History here?

At one time, the breaststroke rules simply stated that the arms had to recover simultaneously. The stroke morphed into an over-the-water recovery keeping the breaststroke kick. During the first half of the last century, it was commonly believed that man (or woman) was not able to sustain the over-the-water recovery for a whole 200 meters. So swimmers would start out with the over-the-water recovery, convert to the underwater recovery for the middle and then complete the last "sprint" with the over-the-water recovery.

As the century progressed, training techniques improved and women (and sometimes man :) ) learned to swim the entire race with the over-the-water recovery. So the strokes were split. Over-the-water recovery was butterfly and underwater recovery was breaststroke. Please note that FINA did not outlaw the breaststroke kick in the butterfly for kid's swimming until about 5 years ago when Masters got into a tizzy when they did. (FINA Masters only lists exceptions to standard FINA rules. So when they deleted it, we didn't have an exception!)

The first Olympic games that had the butterfly stroke was the 1956 Olympics and most (if not all) people used the dolphin kick since it was faster. Bill Yorsyk, coached by "Red" Sylvia of Springfield College, won the menís 200 meter butterfly.

Masters chose to allow the breaststroke kick in the butterfly because many (most?) of our initial members learned the breaststroke with over-the-water recovery. We were also consistent with FINA if not USA-Swimming but I don't know if that was a consideration. We haven't changed the rule in part because many of those original swimmers are still around (says something good for swimming) and also some of us younger folk use it on occasion (like the last time I swam the 200 M fly at nationals - last length all breaststroke kick - got 8th out of 9 !)

Hope you find this interesting.

Leo