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matysekj
September 30th, 2005, 09:30 AM
For the past few weeks, several threads on these forums have been plagued with off-topic remarks and hijacking of threads, baiting of other members, thinly veiled personal attacks, and other unwelcome posts. I've just closed these threads to further posting. We tried letting these threads go through their own cycles recently in hopes that people would work our their differences and the forums would return to normal on their own. That experiment ends now.

We will now begin a zero-tolerance policy. If you engage in any of these activities, your account will be banned. Our policy is to start with a 2 week ban for your first offense and double it for each successive offense. If you attempt to get around the rules by using alternate accounts or your offense is flagrant, your ban will be more severe.

Users of these forums need to be aware of two things. First, we have many potential new members of USMS who read these forums. What kind of impression of our organization do you think these recent threads give to these visitors? All users of the forums are expected to behave in a civil fashion when posting. Second, there have been calls from various levels of our organization at various times to shut down the forums altogether. The fact is that monitoring these forums and taking these actions takes valuable time away from our staff that is supposed to be used developing useful things for our members. When things get out of control on the forums, some question their value. For the record, I personally believe that shutting down these forums would be a very bad idea.

There will be no warnings on policy enforcement, and all decisions are final. We have to clean up the forums, even if it means that some of our regular posters will no longer be here. We're not saying that everyone has to agree with everyone else and join in group hugs. Spirited debate is welcome, as long as the debate is in regards to a swimming topic and doesn't get personal. Also, retaliation will not be tolerated. If you feel that someone has attacked you, report the post rather than replying in kind. We'll evaluate all such reports, but may not take any action if we do not agree that a post was in violation of policies.

gull
September 30th, 2005, 10:30 AM
I couldn't agree more. I myself was very disturbed by the post maliciously misidentifying my avatar as a pigeon. I trust appropriate action will be taken.

Sam Perry
September 30th, 2005, 10:35 AM
Originally posted by gull80
I couldn't agree more. I myself was very disturbed by the post maliciously misidentifying my avatar as a pigeon. I trust appropriate action will be taken.

One of the funniest things I have read on here in a long time!

aquageek
September 30th, 2005, 10:53 AM
Originally posted by gull80
I couldn't agree more. I myself was very disturbed by the post maliciously misidentifying my avatar as a pigeon. I trust appropriate action will be taken.

I throw myself at the mercy of the USMS community for misidentifying your buzzard as a pigeon.

gull
September 30th, 2005, 11:05 AM
See you in two weeks, Geek. You're outta here!

By the way, the new policy is stiffer than the MLB's stance on steroids (which isn't saying much).

Swimmer Bill
September 30th, 2005, 11:47 AM
Thanks Jim!

For a moment, I was worried that my comment about the name of the Rhode Island School of Design intramural hockey team had crossed the line -- but I was relieved to see it was not part of one of the closed threads.

I'm trying to do my part. It was really tempting to comment on the convention, but I resisted the temptation. If others would show the same restraint, we would have a much more peaceful forum.

Keep up the great work!
Bill

Peter Cruise
September 30th, 2005, 12:37 PM
Jim- as you know, I have (mostly) been biting my tongue during the last few weeks, despite an almost overwhelming temptation to roll up the sleeves and start slinging the mud. I feel it was necessary to crack down & return to the vestiges of normalcy we usually affect, but I also hope that, over time, we also can resume vigorous disputations over fine points of swimming arcana without resorting to commenting on the other posters speed, weight, brainpower, background (other than natural college-ribbing), political orientation etc.

This has become a viable community (of sorts) that has evolved here, one that I thoroughly enjoy following and participating in. Like many of the regulars I was watching things develope lately with a certain fascination, much as people gather to watch an out-of-control fire, but the decision to 'put the fire out' was timely & offers the best chance to regain our normal quirky equilibrium.

tjburk
September 30th, 2005, 01:24 PM
Gull....you mean that's not a Pigeon? ;)

Matt S
September 30th, 2005, 01:28 PM
Jim,

I am fine with the new policy. Just for clarity's sake, can we list the kinds of prohibited remarks? My understanding from your post is that would include the following:
- off-topic remarks and hijacking of threads (I am very unclear on this one.)
- baiting of other members (Would that include my mocking of a typical posting in the "Things that Annoy Me" thread?)
- thinly veiled personal attacks (I'm clear on this one. Some of the attacks recently have been pretty unveiled.)
- other unwelcome posts (?)

I have heard other rules cited, such as the leave the capital "P" Party politics out of the discussion area. I am not questioning whether this is a good policy. I support your actions, and I don't expect you to have a decimal point definition of every conceivable infraction. I would like to have a clear list of the kinds of things you want us to avoid.

Matt

Paul Smith
September 30th, 2005, 02:04 PM
Jim,
The evil-goodsmith and myself being the two most obnoxious swimmers on the forum (actually he is........but I'll admit to some guilt)..........hereby agree to continue in our efforts to push the limits............oh wait.......wrong speech.......why am I speaking for JS, he speaks enough for all of us...........OK, I'll try to be nice as the last thing I want is you following up on your latest threat of physical violence to the two of us!!

It's all Geeks fault by the way

aquageek
September 30th, 2005, 02:14 PM
There are quite a few on this forum that put themselves above the law. They should be swiftly and severly punished. While I can't name them all, a few that come to mind:

Gull "chicken hawk avatar" 80 - for using his education to foil my ignorant statements
Smith 1 and Smith 2 - for actually being the same person or conjoined twins
P. Cruise - for trying to convince us that a Canadian could actually join a fight

See you in 2 weeks!

matysekj
September 30th, 2005, 02:56 PM
Matt,

It is difficult to enumerate everything that would result in action against one's account, and many of them are judgement calls on our part. When each person signed up for an account here, they agreed that "you will not post any messages that include personal attacks or are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws" and also "you will not post any unsolicited advertisements for goods or services on these forums and that you will not send unsolicited advertisements via e-mail to any members of these forums". These are pretty broad-brush statements, and they may give you a better feel for the "other unwelcome posts" statement (vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening....).

As for off-topic remarks and hijacking of threads, this is purely a judgement call. I don't care if you throw in a side remark in a reply or if a thread drifts off-topic as people are discussing things. I'm not the gestapo. However, if you insert something into a thread that is obviously intended to take it off-topic in order to continue some historical battles fought here, you'll be getting a friendly email from me concerning the length of your time out.

I would not consider your comments in the "Things that Annoy Me" thread as baiting. Baiting is trying to pick a fight here by bringing up old topics without actually attacking someone directly, but apparently doing this just to entice someone else to start another flame war.

You brought up another thing that isn't mentioned explicitly in our policy, but will not be tolerated: politics. Discussions of politics and religion will not be allowed here. These topics are far too polarizing and they have nothing to do with swimming. If people want to argue these topics, there are plenty of other places to do so.

Peter Cruise
September 30th, 2005, 03:10 PM
Hear hear. Political discussion seems to reduce friends to mortal enemies, largely since it becomes so heated so quickly. There are discussion groups associated to the major news sources where one can argue 'til you're blue in the face (similar to a lengthy hypoxic set).

thisgirl13
September 30th, 2005, 03:12 PM
Here, here, Jim.

If you want a return to civility, may I suggest using my , *ahem ahem* list of uncivilized persons on this forum who should be banned from posting their maliciously intended words:

"I change my name every day" Aquageek
Paul and John "I don't know which Smith is the good smith, so we're both bad" Smith
"I say it's a seagull but really it's a pigeon" Gull80

And also, heretofor from this post, myself.

We're all just run amock. :p

No, seriously, I'll admit to some badgering that I've done in the past, and I think it's a good thing to keep these threads from getting too personal. I really enjoy wasting time at work browsing through these forums and finding people with a weird sense of humor like my own to argue with while still keeping it friendly and impersonal. Bravo, Jim.

Now that I've dont my piece (and gotten myself kicked out of the club) I'm going to go back to answering phones at my desk (who knew that cheating a company out of precious labor time could be so much fun?)

Steph

matysekj
September 30th, 2005, 03:22 PM
Originally posted by Paul Smith
The evil-goodsmith and myself being the two most obnoxious swimmers on the forum (actually he is........but I'll admit to some guilt)..........hereby agree to continue in our efforts to push the limits............oh wait.......wrong speech.......why am I speaking for JS, he speaks enough for all of us...........OK, I'll try to be nice as the last thing I want is you following up on your latest threat of physical violence to the two of us!!

That's the toughest thing about moderating forums. While I know that the jabs you and your evil twin throw at each other are good natured ribbing between friends (even though you may not admit it), others may not know this. They may then think it's okay to say something that may be degrading to someone they've never met.

Like I said initially, we're not looking for group hugs from everyone. The last thing I want to see is you and John engaging in a group hug... oh wait, we might be able to sell tickets to that!

Peter Cruise
September 30th, 2005, 03:44 PM
No, Jim- I will not buy tickets to that...

Phil Arcuni
September 30th, 2005, 03:59 PM
Personally, I thought the recent threads were fine; they never crossed any line that I would draw.

I do not think it is a good idea for moderaters to censor posts or threads. I do not think that any one's opinion on masters swimming is determined by a chat group.

This remains one of the most interesting and polite discussion group on the internet. More censorship will only make it less interesting, not less polite.

Conniekat8
September 30th, 2005, 04:05 PM
I'm sowwy :(

Paul Smith
September 30th, 2005, 04:33 PM
Jim........John's not very in touch wit his feminie side and gets a little uncomfortable with male bonding so th hug deal is out, unless there is some serious cash?

On a serious note, I'm with Phil on this one. If you've had a significant number of complaints filed about the posts here then let's get into a discussion about this stuff.

However, if there is a small number of PC folks who don't like what's going on then the censorship thing becomes a big issue for me.

As testy as tings may get at times, ultimately I wold guess 99% of the people here enjoy the "spice" and thru this forum have connested and become friends in many cases.

Can/should we run a poll on this? After all, in a snese we all "own" this site via our membership and I'd like to think we have some say in content?

Allen Stark
September 30th, 2005, 04:46 PM
Thank you Jim!!!! Generally when I open my e-mail I am excited to read the USMS posts. Lately it has seemed to be "you have 125 messages" each one further from swimming and more personal than the last. Really,how did a simple poll on yardage swum become such a hideous mess?

Paul Smith
September 30th, 2005, 05:28 PM
The great thing about this forum however is tha you can use the "ignore" feature and you don't have to subscribe to the emails. Sad that we have to clamp down across the board and start questioning where the lines are.

gjy
September 30th, 2005, 05:38 PM
Let this be a warning lest anyone even think about ridiculing my avatar. It may not be perfect but I spent a long time to prettying it up.

I was worried the "Criticism of TI Principles" thread would be long gone (since I haven't read it yet) but I see it made the cut. Congratulations on all who worked that thread for keeping it respectful!

Apparently, I've missed all the infractions because I have yet to see anything close to the limit here. The closest might have been a situation I found myself in although the sniping was over topic. I don't mind being called stupid myself, especially if I said something stupid. If insults wrap up quickly or are funny, it might not be degrading to the forum. Agreed it is a judgment call, maybe like trying to define pornography. Since I have no idea what the fuss is about, I missed it (no link?), I guess I'm just being a busy body, not a fly on the wall.

Alicat
September 30th, 2005, 06:41 PM
So we're going vanilla. Sigh. I suppose there is nothing wrong with vanilla.

So there is no chance to have a seperate section of "enter at your own risk" forums/ the back room of the video store to express swimming/politics, jabs and uncensord evil comments?

Could this be my new goal? 1.Very active member. 2.Getting a thread started and banned. 3.Kicked off the forums for two weeks.

No! No! Must not go there! Be good alicat, stop licking the cat nip mouse!

Conniekat8
September 30th, 2005, 06:54 PM
Originally posted by Alicat
So we're going vanilla. Sigh. I suppose there is nothing wrong with vanilla.

So there is no chance to have a seperate section of "enter at your own risk" forums/ the back room of the video store to express swimming/politics, jabs and uncensord evil comments?

Could this be my new goal? 1.Very active member. 2.Getting a thread started and banned. 3.Kicked off the forums for two weeks.

No! No! Must not go there! Be good alicat, stop licking the cat nip mouse!

We need to be nice kitties!!!
No pouncing!
I keep telling myself!

geochuck
September 30th, 2005, 07:06 PM
Now let's not get catty.

lapswimmr
September 30th, 2005, 09:35 PM
I have seen some good posts and ideas from the geek and the gull.. You all ..... "Peace".

mattson
October 1st, 2005, 03:18 AM
Originally posted by Alicat
So we're going vanilla. Sigh. I suppose there is nothing wrong with vanilla.

Try ice cream with vanilla beans flecks in it. Tasty! Vanilla doesn't have to mean bland.

gull
October 1st, 2005, 11:30 AM
Originally posted by lapswimmr
I have seen some good posts and ideas from the geek and the gull.. You all ..... "Peace".

Peace? There shall be no peace as long as geek is allowed to live in the swamps of North Carolina. But when he experiences the shock and awe of our match up in the 500, then he will truly know and respect the power of the mighty gull.

Anyway, it's "y'all."

mattson
October 1st, 2005, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by gull80
Anyway, it's "y'all."

You've been wrong before Gull, but this is just outrageous! It's "yunz" (with a Pittsburgh accent).

(Does this count as hijacking the moderator's thread, or do I have to throw in some random personal insults? Jim M. is from Raaahh-chester. :D )

thisgirl13
October 1st, 2005, 02:33 PM
Originally posted by mattson
You've been wrong before Gull, but this is just outrageous! It's "yunz" (with a Pittsburgh accent).

(Does this count as hijacking the moderator's thread, or do I have to throw in some random personal insults? Jim M. is from Raaahh-chester. :D )

This is a hijacking. Hide the swim caps, fins, and the number zero. We're coming for you. :p

Actually, mattson, it's "yinz". Speaking as one who grew up in a "y'all" and moved to a "yinz" last year, then ended up back in the "y'all".

Mine is a very complicated world.:D

tjburk
October 1st, 2005, 08:14 PM
It's like....DUDES...spoken like Jeff Spiccoli in Fast Times At Ridgemont High......Narly dude...totally radical!!!!!!:D

TheGoodSmith
October 3rd, 2005, 10:33 AM
Regardless, I will continue pressing toward my goal.... To win the coveted honor of being the most irritating personality in masters swimming...... and drive toward winning the most controversial thread for 2006.


John Smith

(The GOOD Smith)

aquageek
October 3rd, 2005, 10:45 AM
Originally posted by TheGoodSmith
Regardless, I will continue pressing toward my goal.... To win the coveted honor of being the most irritating personality in masters swimming...

No need to keep counting the votes, you've already won.

Paul Smith
October 3rd, 2005, 10:51 AM
Geek.......we still have 12 weeks left in 2005, plenty of time for some serious challenges to JS's throne to be made!

aquageek
October 3rd, 2005, 11:05 AM
John and Paul could never get along.

Michael Heather
October 4th, 2005, 01:04 AM
It is pronounced "yoonz" Please update your files.

It is not censorship, it is management of a resource. If you cannot play nice here, play elsewhere. There are lots of DFs that seem to welcome (or at least tolerate) personal attacks, flame wars, poiltical and religious harangues by zealots and fanatics.

The only fanatics welcome here are horizontal and wet a couple hours every day. Keep on topic and keep it light and everyone goes home with a smile.

Paul Smith
October 4th, 2005, 09:07 AM
Or another way to look at it is if your overly sensative, don't know how to use the ignore button or turn off email notification, don't want to discuss things of relevance with your peers that may slide off topic from time t time, maybe you should move on?

Hmmmmm?

I again question what percentage of the people on this forum are really upset with is content and want a radical change?

tjburk
October 4th, 2005, 10:44 AM
Paul...I, along with you...enjoy a heated debate every now and then. I don't hold grudges afterward either. But, unfortunately, we don't set the rules!!!:(

What would the possibility be of setting up a separate Discussion Forum under the General Tab specifically for such things? (Call it the "War Room"!!) That way those that want to participate could, and those that don't wouldn't be bothered by all of those notices.

mattson
October 4th, 2005, 11:26 AM
Originally posted by tjburk
What would the possibility be of setting up a separate Discussion Forum under the General Tab specifically for such things? (Call it the "War Room"!!)

"War Room"? Don't take offense at this :D , but blah...

You could try Boiler Room, or Behind the Bleachers. Or my choice would be Fecal Matter in the Diving Well. :p

Sam Perry
October 4th, 2005, 12:05 PM
Originally posted by Maryyyyyy

But I know, you couldn't care less about that.

Goodbye Smiths, good and bad... I really couldn't care less.



That was a bit over the top wasn't it?

Guvnah
October 4th, 2005, 02:00 PM
A "war room" chat board?

Maybe we can call it the water polo pit.

I hear that Roller Derby is making a comeback. Maybe we could start a Water Derby league! Have a circuit from town to town, like NASCAR. People would pay good money to see it if we could guarantee pink water by the end of the show.

But here? I like the atmosphere here. Professional. Respectful. (Now standing in my best Boy Scout posture ... Trustworthy, loyal, helpful, friendly, courteous, kind, obedient, cheerful, thrifty, brave, clean and reverent.) I don't come here to fight. There are other boards for that. I come here to learn. I appreciate the work of the moderators here. Kudos!

tjburk
October 4th, 2005, 02:17 PM
Maryyyyyy...I would have to respectfully disagree with your perception of this Forum.....yes, there are a few threads that get a little out of hand...but overall most of the threads stick to swimming....I would suggest going through and actually reading a few of them before coming in and blasting the whole site! Do like some of the rest of us do...block the ones you don't want to hear about....or the people you don't want to listen to.

Maryyyyyy
October 4th, 2005, 02:50 PM
I deleted my post. I certainly don't want to add gas to a blazing fire.

But I do want to say I agree with what Jim said in the opening post of this discussion:


Originally posted by matysekj
Users of these forums need to be aware of two things. First, we have many potential new members of USMS who read these forums. What kind of impression of our organization do you think these recent threads give to these visitors?

I guess that's me...

Sorry if I offended anyone with my previous post.

Mary

gull
October 4th, 2005, 02:52 PM
I agree with Maryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy--the Smiths need to go. Let's round up a posse.

Phil Arcuni
October 4th, 2005, 03:45 PM
I understand that people have different comfort levels with conversations. Some like a noisy, contentious dinner table with lots of discussions on issues of the day, while others like quiet, respectful meals that allow good digestion. (I would have said it was the difference between Italian and English dinner tables, but Maryyyyyy seems to be happy in Italy.)

But really, a "blazing fire?" This thread was almost dead before you posted, thank you!

In a quick review of the current active threads, I could not find one that was not on topic and on swimming, except for this 'meta topic' thread, and all are polite.

But if you don't like to see people disagree, and want to limit yourself to attaboys, it is pretty clear which threads are which. This is the compromise between those who like to mix it up and those who don't. In a sport and organization that encourages competition, I would be surprised and disappointed if there were not the 'mix it up' sort of person here. We should not have to set up a separate section for real discussions, we already have separate threads.

Maryyyyyy, I don't think anyone was offended by the post, even if it was the most "uncivil" in this thread, because in a reasonable sceme of things, it was pretty civil. Some here may disagree with what you said. So what?

Paul Smith
October 4th, 2005, 04:17 PM
gull80 "I agree with Maryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy--the Smiths need to go. Let's round up a posse."

Won't be the first or last time I've been run outta town gull!

Maryyyyyyyyy.....No offense taken what so ever, sorry you've written off the entire forum.

I'm willing to go with the majority and still think that the people who have been offended and/or dropped off are a very small percentage of the people here.

Conniekat8
October 4th, 2005, 06:19 PM
Originally posted by mattson
"War Room"? Don't take offense at this :D , but blah...

Padded Forum?

Conniekat8
October 4th, 2005, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Michael Heather
...The only fanatics welcome here are horizontal and wet a couple hours every day...

Some people can do *that* for couple of hours ?????

Michael Heather
October 4th, 2005, 08:44 PM
Why, Yes. Doesn't everyone?

jean sterling
October 4th, 2005, 08:49 PM
I have to say that I agree with Maryyyyy. There seems to be less good swimming info - at least imho.

Peter Cruise
October 4th, 2005, 08:59 PM
Jean- there are periods of less hard swimming content in the forums (although I thinks it is still there) & strangely the periods seem to coincide with a certain 'acting out' amongst some of the members. When it turns deadly to newcomers is when that 'acting out' is mixed with a catalyst that ends up generating the close parallel to the decline of western civilization that led to this thread.

Hawaiiwoman
October 4th, 2005, 09:47 PM
Originally posted by Peter Cruise
When it turns deadly to newcomers is when that 'acting out' is mixed with a catalyst that ends up generating the close parallel to the decline of western civilization that led to this thread.

Huh?:rolleyes:

old dog
October 4th, 2005, 10:27 PM
Lots of people on this forum are extremely competitive.
Especially men. [No offense Kat ;0)]

Some of us LIKE to butt heads.
Not all will understand or agree with that.
To each his/her own.

And there is always that wonderful "ignore" button...

[And yes, sometimes it does feel good to stop hitting your head against the wall]

Arf.

Mark in MD
October 5th, 2005, 08:42 AM
Originally posted by old dog
[And yes, sometimes it does feel good to stop hitting your head against the wall.]Does that mean you are experienced in this? :D

mattson
October 5th, 2005, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by Phil Arcuni
I understand that people have different comfort levels with conversations. Some like a noisy, contentious dinner table with lots of discussions on issues of the day, while others like quiet, respectful meals that allow good digestion.

Hmmm... My take is that Paul was mistaking a call for civility as trying to force his noisy, contentious discussion into quiet respectful digestion.

I don't think that was what Jim had in mind. To further your metaphor, he was trying to stop people from jumping on the table, urinating on the food, and yelling in your face during dinner. (Being civil doesn't mean an end to passionate debate. It just means that personal attacks, and an unwillingness to listen, hinder the exchange of ideas.)

Peter Cruise
October 5th, 2005, 01:13 PM
Becky- through circumlocution I can remain civil when addressing certain issues, otherwise I might be tempted by Matt's imagery and 'piss on the table'...

Peter Cruise
October 5th, 2005, 01:15 PM
Matt- excuse the misquote, but I think I got the spirit...

Hawaiiwoman
October 5th, 2005, 03:37 PM
Ah...now a pissing CONTEST I understand, even if it is on the table. Most of us are very competitive, after all! :D

Karen Duggan
October 6th, 2005, 12:31 AM
Wait, you need lots of beer for those contests don't you? I'm in. :)

Wow people, what the heck have I missed?! I've only browsed maybe once a week over the last few weeks... apparently I've missed A LOT!

I must say my curiosity is piqued (right spelling?) What threads are we talking about? I feel like I'm going passed a train wreck and am compelled to look! Are these threads still available to look at or have they been deleted? I feel so left out (which in this case is a good thing I think ;) )

Miss you all, maybe :)

michaelmoore
October 6th, 2005, 12:35 AM
Karen - you are back - good to see you - With no posts from you in a while, I thought you were in the penalty box ;)


michael

Karen Duggan
October 6th, 2005, 12:42 AM
I felt like it. Michael, my dad just came home from the hospital YESTERDAY! Life's been challenging :) No swimming and now my shoulder is killing me. Sure swim mega mileage in March and nothing hurts, swim once a week and now I have really big owies. What gives? I wanted to swim today but I physically couldn't. Lots of Advil tonight. I'm hoping for tomorrow.

I'm hoping to be at the next PMS meeting (not that PMS you guys-Pacific Masters Swimming).

Peter Cruise
October 6th, 2005, 07:16 PM
Good to see you posting again, Karen; we've needed your straightforward thinking lately, we've been all tied up in knots...but everything is just ducky now!

Karen Duggan
October 7th, 2005, 01:11 AM
What's the quote from that movie, "Be afraid, be very afraid."

I know, it's time for another TV show. How about the Twilight Zone for Masters Swimming? We'll call it the Swim Zone

I'll start.

A former hard-core-training-swimmer returns to the Swim Planet to find the Discussion Forums taken over by aliens who think they are ducks...

Hawaiiwoman
October 7th, 2005, 02:56 AM
It didn't take long for this former hard-core-training-swimmer to find out that there were really two kinds of ducks (aka aliens): the haves and the knots. The "haves" were really nice ducks that never attacked anyone and had very polite discussions; but the "knots" had ties to the evil empire and they had a reputation for vicious attacks; they were known throughout the land as... very fast swimmers.

Finally, progress intervened and the “haves” tied themselves into “knots” and ALL the ducks swam very fast, but (alas) no one knew it! They did, however, live happily ever after.

Tom Ellison
October 7th, 2005, 07:25 PM
I have been in the woods of Maine for the past few weeks attending my oldest Brother's funeral. Wow....did I miss something?
Kindest regards,
Tom Ellison

Peter Cruise
October 7th, 2005, 08:24 PM
Tom, deepest sympathies for your loss; as to what you've missed: same old, same old but squared...

Hawaiiwoman
October 7th, 2005, 08:35 PM
Must have been those "silly" pills I had after dinner. I'll stop now. (I can hear the sigh of relief.) :)

dorothyrde
October 7th, 2005, 10:10 PM
Tom, my condolences to you.

Karen, I hope your Dad is doing better.

tjburk
October 7th, 2005, 10:55 PM
Condolences Tom...missed you and the moose!!!!

Karen Duggan
October 8th, 2005, 07:39 PM
Tom,
My condolences as well. Big hugs coming your way.
I still don't know what I've missed, but oh well! I don't know if anyone has the time or inclination to summarize. Although I would like to know which threads to view?

Dorothy,
Thank you. My dad is home and just had his "pick line" taken out today. That was a relief, it was a pain!

Sam Perry
October 8th, 2005, 08:31 PM
Originally posted by Karen Duggan
Tom,
My condolences as well. Big hugs coming your way.
I still don't know what I've missed, but oh well! I don't know if anyone has the time or inclination to summarize. Although I would like to know which threads to view?



When you have some time (like maybe a week!) go read the "How Many Yards A Practice" thread as well as the "Criticism of TI Principles" thread. I was a proud and active participant, oh well...

Tom Ellison
October 9th, 2005, 04:17 PM
Thank you all for the kind words!
Tom

laineybug
October 11th, 2005, 11:14 AM
Tom, I am so sorry to hear about your brother's death. It is never easy to lose a family member. Hold on to all your memories of the great times you shared and your love for him. Let go of everything else, then he will always be with you in that good spirit.

Lainey

PeirsolFan
October 16th, 2005, 10:23 PM
Back to the "no hijacking threads" rule...

I think this forum should be taken down. You're right that new prospective members have been reading all the sarcasm and animosity (which seems to prevail despite the warm sentiments so often expressed).

It's clear that this thread was never taken seriously because everyone was quick to make jokes about who would be the first to go. And of course Kirk is at it with Swiminton and other users - what was the word you used - continue to "bait" other users with their remarks.

Feel free to challenge my remarks. I wont be back to watch. This forum is rooted in destructive behavior and does nothing to promote the positive and HAPPY aspects of swimming and good sportsmanship. You've just lost more than 1 potential member by showing your inability to enforce rules and abide by them.

knelson
October 16th, 2005, 11:45 PM
Originally posted by PeirsolFan
And of course Kirk is at it with Swiminton and other users - what was the word you used - continue to "bait" other users with their remarks.

I'll admit I got a little worked up in swiminton's thread, but I don't think I ever tried to bait anyone or resorted to a personal attack. I apologize if I did.

Peter Cruise
October 17th, 2005, 12:33 AM
Kirk- relax, you've done nothing wrong. The return to civility is not a return to puritanism in the threads, rather, a constructive attempt to avoid flame wars & prolonged personality conflicts. This is, by definition, a mature site, of adults, and for adults. Those who cannot abide disagreement with their views will not prosper among our group of slightly skewed, but highly knowledgable & passionate about swimming- adults. (even the Geek).

BillS
October 17th, 2005, 12:23 PM
What I read was polite, respectful debate in which each party acknowledged the other's point while arguing their own. I saw no baiting, personal attacks, or name calling. There's nothing wrong with bringing a little heat; we're all adults here. I expect that if I post an opinion on a topic, others may disagree with that opinion, sometimes vehemently. No apologies necessary in my view.

geochuck
October 17th, 2005, 12:28 PM
Originally posted by BillS
What I read was polite, respectful debate in which each party acknowledged the other's point while arguing their own. I saw no baiting, personal attacks, or name calling. There's nothing wrong with bringing a little heat; we're all adults here. I expect that if I post an opinion on a topic, others may disagree with that opinion, sometimes vehemently. No apologies necessary in my view. I must have been reading the wrong thread.

knelson
October 17th, 2005, 12:46 PM
Originally posted by BillS
I saw no baiting, personal attacks, or name calling.

Well, botterud did refer to swiminton as "dude." :)

geochuck
October 17th, 2005, 12:49 PM
Hey lot's of personal attacks in other threads.

Hawaiiwoman
October 17th, 2005, 02:41 PM
Originally posted by knelson
Well, botterud did refer to swiminton as "dude." :)

AND...you did say "whatever." :rolleyes:

Actually, I followed that thread pretty closely. Sure it got a little heated, but the discussion was interesting and, for the most part, relevant.