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Rich Abrahams
November 9th, 2005, 04:53 PM
While I would never contemplate swimming in either of these events, a breastroker buddy pointed out that, according to the currently posted schedule, there is no 200 breast or fly at the upcoming masters world championships. Is this a typo on their website? If not, does anyone know why these events are not being offered.

Sabretooth Tiger
November 9th, 2005, 05:01 PM
The 200 Breaststroke (event nos. 33-34) and 200 Fly (event nos. 31-32) are on Wednesday August 9.

http://www.2006finamasters.org/documents/FINASched1.pdf

Frank Thompson
November 9th, 2005, 05:23 PM
Carl and Rich:

I saw that the events were listed but were not in the proper number order. The way its listed on the website the order is 200 Breast, 100 Back, and then 200 Fly with Men the odd numbers and Women the even numbers. However, in number order its 100 Back, 200 Fly and then 200 Breast. Maybe its a typo for the numbers or maybe the order of events is right and the event numbers are wrong. Or the event numbers are right and the order of events is wrong. I am sure Michael Moore will straighten us out about this.

Rich Abrahams
November 9th, 2005, 05:42 PM
Doh!

It would have helped if I had scrolled down a little farther. Thanks Carl and Frank for the info.

breastroker
November 9th, 2005, 11:52 PM
Rich,
You not thinking of swimming the 200 breaststroke and 200 fly?

Frank Thompson
November 10th, 2005, 12:49 PM
To All:

I just found my entry form that I picked up at the USAS convention and noticed that the event order is correct but the number order on the website is incorrect. The schedule of events and the swimming individual entry form in the XI FINA World Masters Championships 2006 packet reads as follows:

29. 200 BREAST W
30. 200 BREAST M
31. 100 BACK W
32. 100 BACK M
33. 200 FLY W
34. 200 FLY M

TheGoodSmith
November 10th, 2005, 03:24 PM
I vote we get rid of the 200 breast and the 200 fly anyway. They are needless unimportant events.

The 50 free is the only important race.


John Smith

aquageek
November 10th, 2005, 03:46 PM
Originally posted by TheGoodSmith
The 50 free is the only important race.

I saw that coming from a mile away.

NKMD
November 10th, 2005, 05:05 PM
Originally posted by aquageek
I saw that coming from a mile away.

A mile is too long for John to see it.

Some swimmers like the longer distances and would like to swim all the events if they would let us.

John, how could you justify swimming for a less than 30 seconds race?

Allen Stark
November 11th, 2005, 11:04 AM
The 50 Free would be the perfect event if only you had to swim it breaststroke;all this thrashing around,now really!

TheGoodSmith
November 11th, 2005, 11:13 AM
I would swim every event in the line up at Masters Nationals if USMS would allow it.


As a matter of fact..... I am formally challenging Mr. Bobby Patten to an every event battle at Masters Nationals. Loser buys 2 hours of adult beverages after the meet and must wear the winner's college sweats and pose for a photo which will be posted widely on the USMS forum.


John Smith

Paul Smith
November 11th, 2005, 11:27 AM
I think this warrants the championship committee and meet director to consider legislation exempting these two from the 6 event limit.

In fact......I think they should swim head to head in the first heat of each event......we'll put geek in charge of setting the odds and collecting wagers!

SwiminONandON
November 11th, 2005, 11:39 AM
I think we should be able to sign a waiver or have a doctor sign off that we can swim more than 6 events. The 50 free really is an awesome race, but so is the 400IM, the 100 fly and really anything that isn't just breaststroke or over 400yards/meters.

TheGoodSmith
November 11th, 2005, 12:34 PM
Hmmmmmm......... that's over 5,000 yards all out. Points awarded on individual place in each event.

1000 Freestyle
1650 Freestyle
50 Breaststroke
100 Butterfly
200 Backstroke
50 Freestyle
200 Individual Medley
500 Freestyle
100 Individual Medley
200 Breaststroke
100 Freestyle
50 Backstroke
200 Butterfly
200 Medley Relay
100 Backstroke
50 Butterfly
200 Freestyle
100 Breaststroke
400 Individual Medley

200 Mixed Free Relay
200 Mixed Free Relay
200 Mixed Medley Relay
200 Freestyle Relay

Paul Smith
November 11th, 2005, 01:27 PM
JS...oh evil one....you have failed to keep your readers updated on the actuall "counter-bets" being made offline.....I'll share for you (lets see if anyone can figure out who sent you this email):


"I think we should hold our own event. We start our two hour drinking right at noon on a Sat, John you have to drink beer for beer with me and Robert, then we will head to the pool and begin the event list at 2:30 swimming a new event every 10 minutes, this will take about 5 hours. The first one to puke looses the bet and will have to pay travel expense for the other two. In the event no one pukes the slowest total time looses and has to cover air fare.

We should select a location with a major hospital near by for John because I know he'll be the first to blow, and neither robert nor I will drive him.

If this seems a bit over the top how about just doing the college dual meet line up minus relays"

newmastersswimmer
November 11th, 2005, 02:24 PM
I will take on The Evil Smith in a 200 fly for any beer or drinking wager he wants......I might still lose since I'm sure his evil powers extend beyond just 50's and 100's (and freestyle).....BUT I already have an almost impossible bet going with another evil Longhorn (Ande Raz).....I am sworn to confront and fight the evil Longhorns in every way concievable whenever I can....I think I can take John in a 200 fly anyway!....LOL!


Newmastersswimmer

Rob Copeland
November 11th, 2005, 02:26 PM
An open letter to the Smith’s …

Please remember that in addition to pool swimming event you can also compete in open water. And there is also Diving, Syncho, and Water polo.

I think some head to head competition in Synchronized swimming and Diving would do you boys some good. And, I’ll give a bottle of good California red wine to the winner! I’m sure others would kick in something to see this.

SwiminONandON
November 11th, 2005, 03:14 PM
I'll throw in a bottle of white sparkling wine ...

TheGoodSmith
November 11th, 2005, 03:42 PM
Rob,

I don't know about the synchro part....... the costumes and makeup portion of this ain't jiving to well with my inner female if you know what I mean. But, I'm thinkin' the altitude training will help me kick his butt with all the underwater breath control.

Bobby and I will have to take this under consideration. You'd be surprised what he will agree to if he see free beer on the horizon.


John Smith

Peter Cruise
November 11th, 2005, 05:47 PM
I think both Smiths are showing signs of creeping senility; that said I would pay good (Cdn.) beer to see this contest. One has to presume that Paul's rehab is going well?

It is actually intriguing to contemplate the idea of doing all those events, not for me to do mind you, but to visualize among the current top open swimmers who would 'win' such an event. Who do you think, male & female. I think Phelps, but think the female side would be wide open.

Jeff Commings
November 11th, 2005, 07:50 PM
Originally posted by newmastersswimmer
I am sworn to confront and fight the evil Longhorns in every way concievable whenever I can.

How about racing this Longhorn? I'll even go out of my normal swimming range and challenge you to a 200 fly. No 200 breast!

Rob Copeland
November 14th, 2005, 07:58 AM
Originally posted by TheGoodSmith

Bobby and I will have to take this under consideration. You'd be surprised what he will agree to if he see free beer on the horizon.


John Smith
And while you’re thinking about nose clips and hair gel…Give some thought to Water Polo… The members of this forum could pull together some real kick ass teams.

Mary
November 14th, 2005, 10:12 AM
Considering this conversation, I thought people might be interested in this.

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/harv/sports/m-swim/auto_pdf/navyresults.pdf

The team picks someone every year-- Every heat of every event plus 500s during the diving break. Sometimes it is during a tri-meet so even more swimming (with multiple heats of each event). If I remember correctly you have to get out between the relay legs to dive in for the start of each leg:)

Mary

newmastersswimmer
November 14th, 2005, 12:15 PM
originally posted by Jeff

How about racing this Longhorn? I'll even go out of my normal swimming range and challenge you to a 200 fly.
No 200 breast!


I accept. BTW, I think it is very honorable of you Jeff to uphold the honor of Longhorn Masters swimmers everywhere and accept my 200 fly challenge (especially since you say it is not one of your normal events). I must say that I do swim the 200 fly as a normal event (and in fact, I consider it to be one of my stronger events).....But only one of "MY" stronger events.....In the larger spectrum, I'm barely decent at it.......It was the only event in which I placed in the top 10 at last years SCY nationals....and I only placed 10th with a mediocre 2:06 something......So maybe it is a fair challenge then?
I'm not sure when and where we can have this challenge.....but I'm sure we can come up with something?


BTW, my original challenge was intended for the Evil/GoodSmith.....Not Paul Smith (I know it gets confusing sometimes about which Smith were referring too!).....I made the challenge to John originally for 3 reasons.....First and foremost....John has openly rediculed the 200 fly as unimportant.....Secondly: John is a Longhorn (enough said!)
....Thirdly (and finally): John does have the national record in the 50 SCY fly for 40-44 year olds.....So clearly John can swim butterfly very fast for short distances.....Hence it must be a fair challenge then for this mediocre swimmer from a mid major school to challenge him in any butterfly race that is swam competitively at USMS meets right??....(i.e. it's not like I challenged him to a 1650 butterfly or something!)......I don't mind being the underdog either....as long as I think I have "some" fighting chance I will challenge any Longhorn anywhere anytime.....(but I did say "some fighting chance"....so no 200 or 400 IM challenge for the Raz, .....or any kind of 50, or 100 challenge for John....Certainly no backstroke challenges for Clay Britt...etc....I think you get the idea....so whatever your best at Jeff.....forget challenging me in that....it's got to be "somewhat" fair...and then I'm in!


Newmastersswimmer

SwiminONandON
November 14th, 2005, 12:28 PM
I think you should challenge Jeff in the 200 breast, I hear it's an off event for him ...

(I'm totally cheering on both the Longhorns and you Jim)

newmastersswimmer
November 14th, 2005, 12:34 PM
originally posted by Peter Cruise

It is actually intriguing to contemplate the idea of doing all those events, not for me to do mind you, but to visualize among the current top open swimmers who would 'win' such an event. Who do you think, male & female. I think Phelps, but think the female side would be wide open.


I will go with Natalie C. for the women....although I agree that it is not as clear for the women as it is for the men.....You have to go with with Phelps for the men that's for sure!


Newmastersswimmer

SwiminONandON
November 14th, 2005, 12:54 PM
I'd actually go with Kaitlin Sandeno for the women ... great 200, 400, and 800 free ... great 400IM, third (I think) at trials in the 200IM, great 200 fly ... and she's working on her sprinting ... She's also a pretty darn good backstroker ...

Though Natalie is extremely versatile ... she's been off lately ...

And that reminds me, Katie Hoff ... this girl is the female Phelps, she's got decent 100 speed, has the fastes 100 breast split in the world in the 400IM ... obviously great 200 & 400IM, great 200 free, I'm guessing great 400 free, and she could probably go up to the 800 ... and 1500 ... great 200 back (won world trials or was second) ...

Jeff Commings
November 14th, 2005, 01:41 PM
Originally posted by SwiminONandON
I think you should challenge Jeff in the 200 breast, I hear it's an off event for him ...


A very off event. I've sworn to never race that event again.

Jim, I'm sure you've got your hands full with the other Longhorns, but if you'd still like to challenge me in the (gulp) 200 fly, I'm in. I'm not sure if I could go 2:06 at this point.

knelson
November 14th, 2005, 02:17 PM
Originally posted by Jeff Commings
A very off event. I've sworn to never race that event again.

There's a difference between the 200 breast as an "off-event" for someone who's gone a 53 second 100 breast and as an off-event for us non-breaststrokers, though :)

SwiminONandON
November 14th, 2005, 02:18 PM
Yeah, I'm happy when I go a :53 on a 50 breast ...

newmastersswimmer
November 14th, 2005, 02:50 PM
originally posted by Jeff Commings

Jim, I'm sure you've got your hands full with the other Longhorns, but if you'd still like to challenge me in the (gulp) 200 fly, I'm in. I'm not sure if I could go 2:06 at this point.


Well actually I only have one official challenge with a Longhorn right now (besides you if you still want to do it?)....and that's my 500 free challenge with the Raz (A challenge that I will almost certainly lose BTW....but oh well, I'll go down swinging hopefully??)......I didn't know you swam a 53 100 breast back in the day.....If that is so you can surely crush me in any kind of breaststroke race since I can barely swim breasstroke legally....and barely swim it to save my own life if necessary...LOL!!

I'm not sure how we would ever be able to square off in such a challenge though since I could never ask you to waste an event at Nationals on something like the 200 fly....that would just be ludicrous.....I guess I'll never square off with the Good Smith in a 200 fly either unless he gets into some kind of challenge with Bobby Patten that includes the 200 fly (and a slew of other off events for him) and I just happen to also be swimming the 200 fly as well......Oh how I would love for that opportunity though!!.....I wonder how John would do on that last 50 fly of a 200 fly??...LOL!!......I bet he wouldn't come home in a 22.8 that's for sure!!.....Of course I couldn't break 24 in a 50 fly if my life depended on it!

If we ever meet in Texas while visiting family over the holidays sometime and we're both at the Longhorn Masters workout at the same time then maybe after practice we can give it a go.....I'll give you 2 beers per second for every second you beat me by....and make you only pay one beer per second for every second I beat you by if I happen to beat you.....This is my fair compensation plan for making you swim a 200 fly at the end of practice.....Does that sound fair enough?


Newmastersswimmer

Jeff Commings
November 14th, 2005, 05:42 PM
Seeing as I swam dozens of 400 flys in my days at the Lee & Joe Jamail Texas Swim Center, I think a little 200 fly after workout in that pool is possible.

Or maybe you can come out here to Arizona and take a swim in the open air.

newmastersswimmer
November 15th, 2005, 02:16 PM
I just looked up Jeff Commings under the individual search on this website and got a link for Jeff P. Commings from RMM (which is in Colorado I believe?).....That would'nt happen to be you would it Jeff?.....It was the only listing for Jeff Commings.....Either you haven't swam in any USMS competitions yet (and hence the explanation for why your name may not have come up on the search).....or you are the Jeff P. Commings from the search....and hence recently moved to Arizona from Colorado in the past couple of years....My guess is that you are the guy from the search since you listed breaststroke and backstroke as your best strokes in your profile....and from what I saw in the search, Jeff P. Commings is an Ace at both strokes. What confuses me though is that I thought you and GoodSmith and Ande Raz all swam together for UT at the same time.....i.e. I thought you were my age....not 10 years younger than me!!.....yikes!.....a measley 200 fly is nothing for a youngling as yourself!!....You tricked me!!.....Typical evil Longhorn manuever I guess!.....Never matter.....I will defeat you anyhow (or die trying...j/k of course).......I must not cower away from the challenge now that I know the complete evil truth of your real identity......I saw that you went 51.5 in the 100 IM at SCY Nationals in 2004....which means you clearly have no weaknesses when it comes to the 4 strokes....all I can hope for is that you are like the evil Goodsmith in that you are a true drop dead sprinter (even though you swam dozens of 400 flies at practice as a college swimmer...LOL!!). I will have to up my game somehow and try to get as close to 2:00 as possible in the 200 fly before the end of the season???.....It's now all out war against the Longhorns!!

Newmastersswimmer

SwiminONandON
November 15th, 2005, 03:10 PM
Yeah the 400 fly is a good time ... seriously why isn't that event, next up the 400 fly also known as whoever can survive wins ... One practice I was given a 2,000IM with the choice of either regular or reverse order ... yeah, that was a good time ...

Jeff Commings
November 15th, 2005, 04:25 PM
Yes, Jim, that's me. I haven't swum a masters meet since Oct. 2004. I hope you're not scared by my age. None of the Smiths were when we stepped up for a 100 IM challenge a few years back.

I wouldn't say I'm a drop dead sprinter. I do the 200 IM, and I am looking to dabble in a few 200 races in 2006. But yes, the 100s are where it's at! The 100 IM is great because it's only one length of fly, and those suckers who underwater kick on fly and back go into oxygen debt on the breaststroke, so they can't catch me on freestyle!!!!

The 400 fly was more of a mental exercise than an attempt to make the team into 200 flyers. Obviously, the distance swimmers won every time. There were plenty of bags of ice on shoulders on those days.

swim53
November 15th, 2005, 05:57 PM
From what I understand, Open Water is Aug 11, 3K, Alameda-Crown Point (SF Bay)

Paul Smith
November 15th, 2005, 06:29 PM
Jeff.......the single most important question however is IF you will continue to represent your adopted home state of Colorado going forward?!

I can imagine the pressure to succumb to swimming for AZ, owning a condo in Tempe and spending a good part of our free time down there has tempted us to make the switch but for now we're holding firm with CO!

By the way......VERY curious to see how those feet look during a 200 fly? Kinda like they look during your backstroke leg upside down I suppose.......but you can't turn over the same in the fly!!

Laura says hi the the "kicker of the as.....s"!!

newmastersswimmer
November 16th, 2005, 08:29 AM
originally posted by Jeff Commings

Yes, Jim, that's me. I haven't swum a masters meet since Oct. 2004. I hope you're not scared by my age. None of the Smiths were when we stepped up for a 100 IM challenge a few years back.


Actually it's more your overall speed than your age that scares me.....but that's o.k. I'm most likely going to get humiliated by another longhorn anyway (Ande Raz).....so what's one more little humiliation? A little humility is good for the spirit I've been told.....So I guess my spirit should be rock solid by now...LOL!! Sounds like those 400 flies were extremely brutal....I've heard rumors that the coach of Univ of Tennessee back in the 70's and 80's used to run some pretty brutal sets way back in the day (his name escapes now though as I am old and partially senile). A high school buddy of mine went and swam under him and told me the horror stories.

Just curious BTW, who ended up winning the 100 IM Challenge you mentioned? Sounds like a Colorado Challenge of some kind?


Newmastersswimmer

Jeff Commings
November 16th, 2005, 11:34 AM
The 100 IM wasn't a pre-arranged challenge. The Smiths and I happened to sign up for it. I won, though John and Paull gave me a scare on the fly, and John did his best through the backstroke. It was all over after the breaststroke pullout.

The coach you refer to is Ray Brussard.