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waterlogged1117
January 9th, 2006, 09:01 PM
Hello Everyone!

I am a member of a team here in and I want to start and keep track of team records. Does anyone know of a computer program that will work for a swim team?

Thanks for any and all responses!!!

Larry

nkfrench
January 9th, 2006, 11:38 PM
HyTek Team Manager for swimming is the usual software used for USA Swimming Teams. It is most useful when meets are entered electronically by the team and especially when meet results are available in the HyTek proprietary export format (or the similar SDIF format). "Record Match" is an upgrade feature. There are a lot of "Top Times" etc reports as well as keeping up on some administrative things such as rosters/mailing labels, medical/insurance info.

http://www.hy-tekltd.com

You can download a "lite" demo copy free from their website.

mattson
January 17th, 2006, 12:53 AM
Are there technical descriptions of these types of output files? I keep track of my teams records, but it looks like HyTek is PC only. (I use Apple.) I'd be happy to try to write a program, but I'd need to know the format of the files.

dorothyrde
January 17th, 2006, 07:42 AM
You probably can look at the files using Access and determine the formats. I have been able to correct some issues in Meet Manager that the software was not capable of doing by using Access. Our team has Team Manager, and I need to get a hold of the 4.0 disk, because the lite version won't let me look at the files via access, and if I had the full blown version I probably could. 4.0 looks much better than previous versions.

nkfrench
January 17th, 2006, 10:51 PM
Meet results are typically exported as zipped .cl2 files to give to visiting teams etc. The format for .cl2 is very similar to the published SDIF format with a few quirks. It is a text format so you can view it in an ASCII editor to see what you are getting, if you familiarize yourself with the format.

There is a description of SDIF (Standard Data Interface Format) on USA Swimming's website. www.usaswimming.org

There is password protection on the underlying MS-Access databases in the newer versions of the HyTek software. Meet Manager will allow you to export some data from a meet database into a separate Access database, haven't tried it.

dorothyrde
January 18th, 2006, 09:20 AM
Originally posted by nkfrench
Meet results are typically exported as zipped .cl2 files to give to visiting teams etc. The format for .cl2 is very similar to the published SDIF format with a few quirks. It is a text format so you can view it in an ASCII editor to see what you are getting, if you familiarize yourself with the format.

There is a description of SDIF (Standard Data Interface Format) on USA Swimming's website. www.usaswimming.org

There is password protection on the underlying MS-Access databases in the newer versions of the HyTek software. Meet Manager will allow you to export some data from a meet database into a separate Access database, haven't tried it.

I have not gotten the 2.0 version yet. It has been ordered, but still waiting for it. Can I set the password if I am setting up the meet?

nkfrench
January 18th, 2006, 05:42 PM
In the Pro versions you can set several different levels of passwords - one for admin, another to run the meet, another for clerk of course, another for reporting, maybe more. This allows people to generate reports without tampering with results, etc and allows the database to be temporarily locked down for doing backups during a meet.

I don't know if those are the same passwords as you would use to try to open it in MS-Access but I think they are not. That discourages reverse engineering their underlying database or corrupting a meet database.

dorothyrde
January 18th, 2006, 06:08 PM
Originally posted by nkfrench
In the Pro versions you can set several different levels of passwords - one for admin, another to run the meet, another for clerk of course, another for reporting, maybe more. This allows people to generate reports without tampering with results, etc and allows the database to be temporarily locked down for doing backups during a meet.

I don't know if those are the same passwords as you would use to try to open it in MS-Access but I think they are not. That discourages reverse engineering their underlying database or corrupting a meet database.

Except when a coach sends entries into the wrong age group and MM does not let you see them and you have to go back door!!! Since I work on databases I know what I am doing, but I still back it up before I start messing with it.

osterber
January 19th, 2006, 01:28 PM
Hy-Tek, for reasons I have never understood, and argued with them at length about, tends to be very Microsoft-y about how it does business, and not at all "open".

The CL2 file format is remarkably similar to the SDIF format, except that there is a checksum at the end of each line. It's trivial to write software that will _read_ a CL2 file, but it's just about impossible to write software that will _generate_ CL2 files correctly, since the checksum algorithm isn't published anywhere. Hy-Tek refuses to share it.

Why they do this is beyond me. They do support the SDIF format, which is nice. But the CL2 format actually does things a little better. For example, there is an ambiguity in the SDIF format for people with multiple names. Since SDIF puts first and middle names into a single field, if someone's name is:

Mary Elena Something Someone

it's ambiguous as to whether the first name is 'Mary Elena' or the middle name is 'Elena Something'. CL2 I believe breaks first and middle names into distinct fields.

There is also the XSDIF format that is coming out, slowly. It's an XML format pushed by USA Swimming, and is open. Hopefully, we will see adoption of that format by Hy-Tek, so that format can be used for good purposes.

As for the *.mdb Access databases that Meet Manager uses, starting with Meet Manager 2.0, those databases are password-protected so that you can't go into them. In theory, the purpose of this is so that you can distribute a meet backup file, and there is a flag that says "don't allow any changes to the meet", so people can't fake out your results later without your permission. The database password is set by Meet Manager, and cannot be changed or viewed by you, the user.

To give instructions on how to circumvent that password would probably be a violation of the DMCA.

On a completely separate topic, if you do a google search, there are lots of free utilities out there to recover lost passwords on MS Access databases.

-Rick

dorothyrde
January 19th, 2006, 02:19 PM
Originally posted by osterber
Hy-Tek, for reasons I have never understood, and argued with them at length about, tends to be very Microsoft-y about how it does business, and not at all "open".

The CL2 file format is remarkably similar to the SDIF format, except that there is a checksum at the end of each line. It's trivial to write software that will _read_ a CL2 file, but it's just about impossible to write software that will _generate_ CL2 files correctly, since the checksum algorithm isn't published anywhere. Hy-Tek refuses to share it.

Why they do this is beyond me. They do support the SDIF format, which is nice. But the CL2 format actually does things a little better. For example, there is an ambiguity in the SDIF format for people with multiple names. Since SDIF puts first and middle names into a single field, if someone's name is:

Mary Elena Something Someone

it's ambiguous as to whether the first name is 'Mary Elena' or the middle name is 'Elena Something'. CL2 I believe breaks first and middle names into distinct fields.

There is also the XSDIF format that is coming out, slowly. It's an XML format pushed by USA Swimming, and is open. Hopefully, we will see adoption of that format by Hy-Tek, so that format can be used for good purposes.

As for the *.mdb Access databases that Meet Manager uses, starting with Meet Manager 2.0, those databases are password-protected so that you can't go into them. In theory, the purpose of this is so that you can distribute a meet backup file, and there is a flag that says "don't allow any changes to the meet", so people can't fake out your results later without your permission. The database password is set by Meet Manager, and cannot be changed or viewed by you, the user.

To give instructions on how to circumvent that password would probably be a violation of the DMCA.

On a completely separate topic, if you do a google search, there are lots of free utilities out there to recover lost passwords on MS Access databases.

-Rick

Pffffft on them letting us into the files. It is my database, I should be able to access it.