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sdswimmer
May 15th, 2006, 08:32 PM
When you trian for a logn distance swim, how far do you go in your longest training swims? How do you find the balance between risk of injury and not going far enouhg?

Kevin in MD
May 16th, 2006, 04:41 PM
I found that 15 miles is about my limit for a training day. If the race is longer than that, then I'm just gonna go with wishful thinking.

My results have shown it too.

I'm pretty solid at 10k and under, anything longer and it gets pretty sketchy.

jadams
June 7th, 2006, 01:35 PM
I used the Penny Dean book Open Water Swimming to prepare for a race recently. It depends on the length of the race. She says that for race distances of more than 6 miles, "you need not train more than 80 percent of the total swim mileage unless you feel it is necessary for your mental satisfaction" (p. 116). She also recommends weekly distance increases of 5 to 15 percent. (p. 123) So you need to pinpoint the race date, figure how long you want to taper and count back from there to plan each week.
I talked to a marathon runner who said that in practice she was to train only for 20 miles out of 28, so that seems to be roughly an 80 percent rule as well.
How long is your event?

bcswim
August 26th, 2006, 10:56 AM
so i am wondering, what would you all recommend for splitting your training between open water and pool training?
How far would you train indoors mileage wise and how far open water. I am talking about over 10 km distance.

geochuck
August 26th, 2006, 11:28 AM
I trained for all of my marathon swims in pools during the winter. preferred the 50m but had to use 25m, 25y and even 20y pools. I did1 hr 2hrs x2 a day and any combination, if I could get only one swim it would be 2hrs.

As soon as outdoor open water was available if the water was warm enough the same except once a week 3hrs and on occassion a 9 mile swim.

I also had wall pulleys in the closet which were made with window weights and pulley close line wheels so the pulleys came down from overhead and did my 1 and 2 hours a day on those, when I lived in the north with the nearest pool 2 hours away. It was sure nice to come out of the closet.

beetle
October 10th, 2006, 07:32 PM
Another option for training for a marathon attempt is to swim long sessions back to back. In 2004 I was training to swim the channel and had a predicted crossing time of 14 hrs. The longest ever training swim I did was 8 hrs (crossing was 12.5hrs) about a month before the attempt. The following day I swam 7 hrs and have never experieced so much pain. In hindsight this training swim was harder than the crossing itself and though I never swam the total distace before the big swim was fantastic mental preparation. It also helped me have the confidence to "properly taper" which totally paid off as this 3-4wk period enabled almost miraculous repair of a very bad shoulder problem.

As for splitting pool and ocean. Depends totally on the event. I trained succesfully for a 10km swim exclusively in the pool one season but the sea temp was quite warm and there wasn't much tidal effect. As a general rule I would say if the water is colder (than pool temp) and the course likely to be strongly effected by tide or weather performance will be improved by greater ocean time (close to 100% training) as temperature adjustment and ability to swim in variable conditions will be just as dominant skills as fitness. And in reality mental preparation will play a much bigger part if conditions are bad.

You will often get a swollen/numb tongue and have difficulty swallowing on a long ocean swim. Which are things you are unlikely to experience in the pool (unless it is salt) it really depends how many unknows you want to remove before the big event. If it is hard to get regular ocean time I would plan on at least one quite long swim (60 - 80% distance/time depending on the swim length) with similar support to what you will have on the day. As well as the training benefit it will help you sort out feeding and communication issues before the event which will improve you performance on the day.

As per distance and risk of injury, from experience this is more to do with increasing training load to quickly. I think the general rule is not too increase training more that 10% each year and throughout the season increases of more than 10% per week are not recommended - don't quote me though. If you do increase by more than that (and even if you don't) I'd suggest strong adherance to warm up and cool down (at least 20% of training time depending on the session) and large amounts of stretching before training. If training every day use a protein recovery drink/food afterwards (could be as simple as a glass of milk) to help muscles repair before the next session and very important - find a good sports therapist and get into a regular massage routine.

geochuck
October 10th, 2006, 07:47 PM
After a race which is harder than swimming a non race attempt I would not swim for a couple of days, you would be lucky to be able to get your legs into a car after a marathon race without lifting them into the car with your hands. Also if the race was rough I did not even want to look at the water, I have literally brought up looking at Lac St Lois in La Tuque Quebec after the 24 hour race there. Hey I would get sick if I saw orange juice or glucose powder, my energy source during the races was Glucose Powder with liquid Tang I hated to see it.

I could not drink orange juice for years after I quit marathon racing if anyne ordered it in my prescence I would start heaving.

SolarEnergy
October 13th, 2006, 02:47 PM
When you trian for a logn distance swim, how far do you go in your longest training swims? How do you find the balance between risk of injury and not going far enouhg?
25k time trial (in the pool). We would never go over that. 15k time trials on a regular basis. This is the volume for world class ld swimmers competing and doing well on the world cup circuit.

sdswimmer
October 16th, 2006, 11:25 AM
When I started this thread I was in the midst of training for the Catalina Channel, the Tour of Boouys and the ADA 10 mile relay (solo) in La Jolla.
After completing the season, I found that training volume was as important as distance. Long swims were important, most important in colder water but I felt the overall mileage played a big part. I would say not increasing over 10% in distance but also getting in 100+ mile months for these distances.

As for pool vs. ocean here I was watching others too. I probably completed 30% of my training in the pool, mostly speed work, I wish I had done more speed work and a little less slow ocean swimming. It appears to me that up to 50/50 worked well in fact for those with a lot of ocean experience even 90/10 worked if the race was warm. If it was cold, then weekly ocean time was essential (I suppose you could substitute a very cold pool).
So I hope my observations help. I also know that it varies a lot by the individual.

geochuck
October 16th, 2006, 11:58 AM
As for pool vs. ocean here I was watching others too. I probably completed 30% of my training in the pool, mostly speed work, I wish I had done more speed work and a little less slow ocean swimming. It appears to me that up to 50/50 worked well in fact for those with a lot of ocean experience even 90/10 worked if the race was warm. If it was cold, then weekly ocean time was essential (I suppose you could substitute a very cold pool).
So I hope my observations help. I also know that it varies a lot by the individual.
I did most of my training in the pool as I would not train in water under 60f generally and Lake Ontario temp was very changeable depending on wind direction and it was a long drive to get to the warm water lakes. I did one or 2 mile swims in the pool for time but spent most of the pool time doing paced 50s, 75s, 100s, 200s and 440s did the 100s in 1:02 to 1:04 lcyards.