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Xenadiva
July 8th, 2006, 09:55 PM
I was wondering what people thought about the pictures that Amanda Beard posed for in FHM. I was talking to a friend a couple of years ago and she was telling me that she thought that Amanda had "sold out". At that time I was only aware that she was modeling for speedo and other sports related products.

I went into 7-11 this week and there she was on the cover of FHM and in my mind that definatly crossed the "sold out" line. It doesn't change the fact that she's a great athlete but I don't think I take her seriously anymore. What would you think if Gary Hall Jr. posed in a magazine like that in those poses? Would you be able to take him seriously or look at him the same way?

"She has signed a $1 million contract to advertise Speedo’s Axcelerate line. Throw in endorsement deals with Oroweat Bread, Red Bull and Penta water, and a signature line of fragrance products, and Amanda can earn up to $100 million by 2010." - FHM

I just don't understand with all the money that she's raking in already, why there was a need to pose..... How about Vogue Amanda? That's sexy!

Whatever......

Amanda pics (http://www.fhmus.com/girls_girls_of_fhm_article.asp?cnl_id=0&stn_id=0&idx_id=1471)

dorothyrde
July 8th, 2006, 10:00 PM
Michael Jordan had his underwear ads. why can't Amanda make money like this? No, I don't think she is selling out at all. The pictures are not Penthouse type, not even Playboyish, and nothing wrong with a make-up line(wonder if they are waterproof?).

Xenadiva
July 8th, 2006, 10:04 PM
I'm in design.... I know...... These pictures are playboy - with clothes......

Cheese, cheese, cheesey.....

I wouldn't think she had sold out if she posed nude, It depends what the photo is saying...... Vogue, W, and art mags would not be cheep/ cheesy

I'm in design.... I know......

dorothyrde
July 8th, 2006, 10:09 PM
Sorry, still don't think she is selling out. She has been in modeling of swimsuits for a while, and these pictures are not any worse than the sports illustrated swimsuit pictures. Models do this work, she is a model as well as a swimmer.

Xenadiva
July 8th, 2006, 10:13 PM
You're welcome to your opinon....

But,

Ever see Kate Moss pose for FHM.....

Even a coke head has her standards......

In FHM Amanda is selling her sexuality... For Speedo she's selling their product... I see differences......

dorothyrde
July 8th, 2006, 10:27 PM
Hmmm, the Speedo pictures of Amanda in Splash are selling more than swimsuits, that is for sure. Yes I am entitled to my opinion, and if you did not want to see other opinions, don't post a poll.

I have never heard of FHM before, but there are a lot of models, actresses and such that do pose for Playboy or have in the past.

If Amanda had been a better than average swimmer, but not a superstar swimmer who is in the limelight, but still looked the way she does and decided to go into modeling because of her looks, and has done the pictures she has done, no one would bat an eye. She would be just another model making a living. In fact there might be a discussion when this model was seen in magazines and such that she is a swimmer, just like the threads of, did you know so and so was a swimmer(insert celebrity or politician).

scyfreestyler
July 8th, 2006, 10:30 PM
For Speedo she is using her sexuality to sell their product.

Sell out or not, that is merely an opinion.

More importantly, can you breaststroke faster than her? I can't.

inklaire
July 8th, 2006, 10:41 PM
I took a glimpse. And to think that I only ever thought male swimmers were sexy... Come to think of it, I can't say I'd mind at all if Gary Hall did a similar sort of spread.

It does seem strange to me, though, that swimmers, out of all athletes, seem to show more skin during promotional events than they do in competition.

Xenadiva
July 8th, 2006, 11:02 PM
Hmmm...

I'd never thought of it like that.... I guess swimmer's do tend to show more skin for promotional products.

On another note:

There is a difference between using a little sexuality to sell a product and selling "sex".

If you look at the SI photo's they're similar to 50's pinup poses. There is still some innocence..... FHM goes into a whole different world..... I don't happen to like when a picture spells everything out with a male or female subject......


And on another note:

I do want to see other opinions... That's why I posted a poll..... Forums are for disscussions...... and all opinions are respected.....

Last but not least:

No can't swim faster than Amanda..... Wish I could.... I if I did I wouldn't pose for FHM!

:)

gjy
July 8th, 2006, 11:07 PM
I'm inbetweenst Dorothy and Xena. The design style does have a cheesey aspect and the pics with the chest stuck out and mouth open are bad. Her face looks bad because I don't like that makeup and eyes (even guys look up there). On the other hand, half the pics are very good. In a way it's hard to like many of these stars too much since one usually suspects they may be full of themselves. I haven't read the article on her, maybe it says how humble and discreet she is? The pics I like of most of her is when she's swimming. I'm glad she's gotten back to business.

Xenadiva
July 8th, 2006, 11:13 PM
Actually,

It's kind of funny. If you notice the shots of Amanda for speedo she's lost a lot of muscle..... She won't be modeling as much as she get's closer to Bejing because of time and the muscle she'll be packing on her body....

dorothyrde
July 9th, 2006, 12:06 AM
Some shots she did for Speedo, some of these pictures are VERY sexual:

http://www.amandabeard.net/Main%20Pages/Multi-Media/Speedo-Modeling-Pics.htm

Not Speedo, but not just Amanda:
http://www.amandabeard.net/images/PhotoGallery/DesktopBackgrounds/800_600_olympics.jpg

Sabretooth Tiger
July 9th, 2006, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by Xenadiva
You're welcome to your opinon....

But,

Ever see Kate Moss pose for FHM.....

Even a coke head has her standards......

In FHM Amanda is selling her sexuality... For Speedo she's selling their product... I see differences......

Holy cow . . . that is the most ridiculous analogy/comparison that I could possibly imagine. You somehow think that Kate Moss carries more dignity than Amanda?

Wow . . .

Xenadiva
July 9th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Silliest Thread EVER!!!!!!

Xenadiva
July 9th, 2006, 12:25 AM
I'm going to bed

Speedo never had a picture like this!



FHM AMANDA (http://www.amandabeard.net/images/PhotoGallery/Modeling-other/Amanda-fhm-red.jpg)


This is silly....

JK - out....

Swimmer Bill
July 9th, 2006, 12:36 AM
I thought she was selling the concept that she's no longer the "little girl with the teddy bear"...

kokkole
July 9th, 2006, 01:33 AM
I'm just jealous of her.

I wish I could swim like her, go to the olympics, win a lot of medals, AND be gorgeous. Why not?

Massimiliano Rosolino has done some very sexy shots which have been published, and I silently thank the photographer every time I see them...

Massimiliano Rosolino (http://www.bellionline.com/personaggi/rosolino.html)

:cool:

knelson
July 9th, 2006, 01:40 AM
I think FHM is a joke of a magazine, but they're going after a certain market and obviously it's a good sized market. Really it's sort of like People magazine is for women: light fluff that's interesting to thumb through for an hour or two. But, back to the topic, I don't think less of Amanda for posing for FHM. Sex sells and why not cash in on it?

Peter Cruise
July 9th, 2006, 02:30 AM
Well,...in the Speedo pics Amanda looks...hungry, yes I mean give that girl a hamburger! She's obviously starving! And in the pic that Jennifer posted, an obvious case of Swimmer's Itch (a disgusting lake-born parasite) that's she's suffering mightily from.

Xenadiva
July 9th, 2006, 07:48 AM
Actually posing for FHM might actually help Amanda. It would definately widen her appeal to the male teen to young adult male demographic. This probably makes her more valuable to a company like red bull which had a similar demographic......

Hmmm...It's all starting to make sense now...

Now if only I could find a demographic that would help to pay for my trip to the "Worlds".

dorothyrde
July 9th, 2006, 09:02 AM
Originally posted by kokkole
I'm just jealous of her.

I wish I could swim like her, go to the olympics, win a lot of medals, AND be gorgeous. Why not?

Massimiliano Rosolino has done some very sexy shots which have been published, and I silently thank the photographer every time I see them...

Massimiliano Rosolino (http://www.bellionline.com/personaggi/rosolino.html)

:cool:


WOW!:eek: <much better than the red speedo guy!>

Amanda has this certain look that she turns on the camera that is sultry and sexy. She can be covered head to toe and turn that look to the camera and too me it is sex. The camera really loves her. Not every model, swimmer, person has that, in fact, I think it is rare. In fact, I don't think she is the prettiest swimmer, but she just has this "look" that obviously sells. So she is selling it.

I wonder if people stuggle with this also because she was the little innocent girl with the teddy bear, and it is like your own daughter, you turn around, and wow she is a young sexy woman, wow, she should not be doing this, because she is that young little girl with the teddy bear.

geochuck
July 9th, 2006, 09:27 AM
I just looked at the Amada pics, my goodness who would want to look at that. I put it in my Favorites to show everyone how terribble those pics are. If any one else wants them again here they are http://www.fhmus.com/girls_girls_of_fhm_article.asp?cnl_id=1&stn_id=1&idx_id=1471#

gull
July 9th, 2006, 09:37 AM
Originally posted by Xenadiva
There is a difference between using a little sexuality to sell a product and selling "sex".

Perhaps you've just awakened from a coma. If that's the case, then you need to understand that this is what the media is all about today. As the father of a teenage girl, I think it's sad that this is the message we are sending to our young women. Amanda is not the problem--I can't begrudge her taking advantage of a lucrative opportunity. I do find it ironic that we vilify the former president of Harvard for suggesting (off the record) that there may be gender differences in scientific aptitude, but passively allow the media to very blatantly treat women as sexual objects.

kokkole
July 9th, 2006, 11:21 AM
Originally posted by gull80
Perhaps you've just awakened from a coma. If that's the case, then you need to understand that this is what the media is all about today. As the father of a teenage girl, I think it's sad that this is the message we are sending to our young women. Amanda is not the problem--I can't begrudge her taking advantage of a lucrative opportunity. I do find it ironic that we vilify the former president of Harvard for suggesting (off the record) that there may be gender differences in scientific aptitude, but passively allow the media to very blatantly treat women as sexual objects.

OK - but please let us continue to treat men as sexual objects. That is, IF they look like Massimiliano Rosolino!! :D

geochuck
July 9th, 2006, 11:34 AM
Originally posted by kokkole
OK - but please let us continue to treat men as sexual objects. That is, IF they look like Massimiliano Rosolino!! :D
It is a shame I have offered my pics for sale and no one has offerred to buy them yet. What does Massimiliano Rosolino have to offer, I have much more to offer at least a hundred pounds of body.

Xenadiva
July 9th, 2006, 11:50 AM
Coma?.... Nah I've been wide awake....

I guess I expect these kind of pictures from an B actress who needs to change an image or boost their career. In Amanda's case I see someone who doesn't need to rely on cheesy "hooters" tactics. She's an olympic medalist who knows how to photograph well. That in it's self is worth it's weight in gold. Danica Patrick (race car driver) just did a Secret spot and looks so stiff. It's not easy to have a range of looks and be "on" for a camera.

It was interesting.... Meryl Streep who recently worked with Lindsay Lohan in A Prairie Home Companion said something to the effect of actresses today are on every magazine cover out there and when she was acting it was about well being a good actress and not getting on every magazine cover out there.

O.k. enough procrastination.....

Back to work.....

proberts
July 9th, 2006, 03:00 PM
Shes young, Super fast and great looking and from all accounts a great person why not make some money while you can. Swimmers unlike other pro athletes don't exactly have a lot of opportunity to cash in on their sport, shes not hurting anyone and looks Great! Go Bears!

Xenadiva
July 9th, 2006, 03:36 PM
Amanda's FHM Cover had to be covered up at Grand Central Station....

Amanda's FHM Cover (http://gawker.com/news/top/no-underboobs-at-grand-central-185775.php)

geochuck
July 9th, 2006, 03:44 PM
Sure glad I live in Canada even Peters book store had the right to show those things without the Cops shutting him down.

kokkole
July 9th, 2006, 06:58 PM
Originally posted by Xenadiva
Amanda's FHM Cover had to be covered up at Grand Central Station....

Amanda's FHM Cover (http://gawker.com/news/top/no-underboobs-at-grand-central-185775.php)

great publicity for Amanda! nothing like censureship to make people curious!

"underboobs"? never heard that before. live and learn!

Amanda's accomplishments: Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amanda_Beard)

geochuck - the check is in the mail!! ;)

go bears! (i don't know what that has to do with this topic, but what the heck!)

lefty
July 10th, 2006, 10:50 AM
First, I have seen Amanda in person up close and she looks NOTHING like these photos.

If you read some of the content next to the photos, there is a lot of garbage. One of the questions, "Do you walk around naked in your house?" (Umm yes, and I shower naked too).

Selling out, well, she did that a long time ago when she went on Howard Stern. Will she regret this later? If she has a little girl who wants to be a lawyer but thinks all she has to offer is her body? Chances are she is too dim to think that far in advance.

Oh and she will never earn $100M. How does $1M from speedo extrapliate to $100M?

Frank Thompson
July 10th, 2006, 11:39 AM
Originally posted by lefty
Oh and she will never earn $100M. How does $1M from speedo extrapliate to $100M?

Lefty:

That was a quote taken from Amanda's agent Evan Morganstein. He explains on the other Amanda Beard thread of a potential to get to that figure if things work out in the future. That was last year and people remember that figure and quote it all the time in articles such as FHM. I believe in that thread he said nothing of the Speedo extrapliate contract, in fact I think that came after he was quoted about the potential earnings.

Sabretooth Tiger
July 10th, 2006, 12:01 PM
From the FHM article:

“After my last FHM shoot during the 2004 games, people were like, ‘Wow, she’s grown up,’” says the now 24-year-old Amanda. “And it’s not only because I was in a sexy bikini but I also took on my own business ventures and I’m really in control of what is going on around me.”

That control has turned her into the Tiger Woods of swimming. Amanda gets a cool $15,000 per speaking engagement. She has signed a $1 million contract to advertise Speedo’s Axcelerate line. Throw in endorsement deals with Oroweat Bread, Red Bull and Penta water, and a signature line of fragrance products, and Amanda can earn up to $100 million by 2010. Is there anything she can’t do? “I can’t stop laughing every time I hear someone call me the World’s Sexiest Athlete,” she says. “I don’t look in the mirror and go, ‘Wow, I’m sexy.’” Amanda, perhaps you should take a look at these photos before you decide.

lefty
July 10th, 2006, 02:24 PM
To earn $100M by 2010 she would need to make $20,000,000 per year. To do that, she would need to make about $10,000 per working hour. $15K is a lot for a speaking engagement, but if she did two per day, everyday (7 days per week) till 2010 she would "only" earn $38M, and of course she would have no time to train.

The only reason I am pointing this out is because of what a load it is. There is NO WAY Amanda Beard will make that kind of money. If she could, and was still posing in a rag like FHM, then she is pathetic!

Seagurl51
July 10th, 2006, 04:43 PM
I don't think Amanda sold out at all. This is great publicity for her as a model, as a swimmer not so much, but that's not why she posed in the first place. She has two careers, professional swimmer and professional model. Landing the cover of a magazine (even FHM) is a huge milestone for a model. I don't think her being on the cover of FHM has anything to do with her being a sell out swimmer. To me there's really no reason to mix her careers except in the case of Speedo. She landed the cover because she is a wanted model and not necessarily because she is a gifted athlete. In this case, she's simply a model who happens to be good at something other then posing. Granted the pictures aren't my taste, but she's a grown woman comfortable enough in her own skin that she obviously doesn't mind showing it. I'm not saying by any means that her photos protect something to strive for, but if she feels ok with doing something like FHM, I say more power too her. She's not going to be able to swim forever, and so having a solid back-up career started in a smart move.

gull
July 10th, 2006, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by Seagurl51
She's not going to be able to swim forever, and so having a solid back-up career started is a smart move.

That's pretty funny--"a solid backup career."

Wait a minute, you weren't being serious, were you?

bbpolhill
July 10th, 2006, 05:26 PM
Thank you, seagurl! I couldn't agree more. Wish I had said it myself.


We are all, in effect, working 2 jobs - 1 as a swimmer and one that we can earn a living at. There are few members of the swimming community who actually make money directly from competition.

Even great swimmers like Amanda will not make great money directly from swimming. Endorsement deals and modelling have long been the way the premier athletes in our sport have made serious money.

Selling out means that she has compromised her own ideals. Only she can answer whether she has done that. As seagurl points out she is comfortable in her own skin. I think generally people spend too much time worrying about other people's morality, especially in situations that we can just choose to ignore.

Live and let live.

Seagurl51
July 10th, 2006, 05:33 PM
Originally posted by gull80
That's pretty funny--"a solid backup career."

Wait a minute, you weren't being serious, were you?

For a few people that manage to make it, modeling is a great career and they can make a decent living at it. Not only has Amanda been able to be one of the few who has won Olympic medals and made it to the top of her sport, she is also being sought after as a model. Seems like a win-win situation.

Sabretooth Tiger
July 10th, 2006, 06:02 PM
Amen Seagurl.

jaegermeister
July 10th, 2006, 10:37 PM
There was an interesting article in the Minneapolis StarTribune recently, which explored the motivation of many mainstream women in the entertainment/modelng arena for doing covers for what are termed "laddie mags", ie, those read by young adult males. No surprise, this is a demographic targeted by many marketers. Here's an excerpt:

"It's great to feel like a sexpot for the day," said Jennifer Love Hewitt, who has twice graced the cover of Maxim. "I'm a normal person and I'm never going to look like that unless there's five hours of hair and makeup and a great photographer, so it's fun to have those pictures so you can look back and say, 'Huh, I was hot for an hour.' "

Former "Frasier" star Jane Leeves decided to pose for Maxim in 2000, in part to record how she looked before having kids.

"I was a dancer. I worked hard for my body and reaped the results of it," she said. "I don't think there's anything wrong with it, as long as it's done with a sense of humor and a little wink."

Jillian Barberie, who does the weather for Fox-TV's NFL broadcasts and participated in "Skating With Celebrities," said she turned down requests from the lad mags for years, worried that it might add to her reputation as someone coasting on her looks. Then she changed her mind.

"I found out that the naysayers would always be critical anyways," she said. "If people think I look a certain way, and it's sexy, then what the hell. It was a decision I made for myself and I loved it."


As a male, I cannot identify with any of these sentiments. They don't, however, seem like women who are twisted in a nasty way- they just like attention. Though the covers are suggestive, they are certainly nowhere near the level of exploitation that is so common (and that is also used to attract young males). Whether or not this is a sell out- well, that really depends on your perspective. I that anyone- male of female- who enjoys commercial success can be labeled as a "sell out", but this to me is disingenious.

The more important question I think is where eploitation begins, and whether it is Speedo or FHM, I don't think they are close.

geochuck
July 10th, 2006, 11:00 PM
Originally posted by jaegermeister
The more important question I think is where eploitation begins, and whether it is Speedo or FHM, I don't think they are close. Or is it Amanda exploiting Speedo and FHM for money.

Matt S
July 10th, 2006, 11:37 PM
1) No one actually looks like photos like this. How do these magazines do it? They start with the most attractive 0.01% of the population. Then they add professional make-up/costuming/hair and most important of all, professional photography. And then to reach the acme of artificial perfection, they air brush away any blemishs. However aesthetically pleasing these images are to some, they are science fiction bordering on fantasy. Nice to look at, but don't confuse with real life.

2) The photos of elite female athletes I have always found most intriguing are the ones that show them in action or show off their athleticism. Just after the 96 Games, several of the athletes posed nude for some photos for Sports Illustrated (with artful posing and editing to keep within SI's style). There was one striking photo of Amy Van Dyken kneeling at the end of a pool (the lane line stretching out into the background) with her back to the camera. You almost didn't notice she was nude because you couldn't help seeing her shoulders like an NFL linebacker. Just before the 2000 Games, Jenny Thompson posed on a beach wearing only a frumpy bikini bottom (and covering her breasts with her arms) that generated comments similar to here. What struck me was how goofey and pedestrian it made her look, and right next to it was a gorgeous photo of her in a regular swim suit doing freestyle. When Brandi Chastain ripped off her shirt to celebrate winning the World Cup, everyone was so taken with her sports bra (like no one has ever seen anything twice as revealing on any beach in America on a summer day). I was taken with the six-pack abs she was sporting. What am I saying? Some folks have specualted whether Amanda could do these photos once she's trained and bulked up for the 2008 Games. Au contraire mon frere, I'm looking forward to seeing what she looks like ready to swim with the best in the World. That is when she is most extraordinary.

3) Xenadiva has asked whether we can take any swimmer seriously who poses for photos like this. I wonder what photos like this have to do with it? I take Amanda seriously because of what she has done in the pool. She is also on the road to doing good things for the sport of swimming, and I'll be interested in seeing what she does with her fame. To be honest, she still has some ground to make up in catching Gary Hall in the impressario department. I think one should not take seriously people whose only achievement is being the object of salacious/science fiction photos for men's magazines of pedestrian taste. In contrast, the people I take very seriously are those who get up every day, go to work making a difference in other people's lives, and live up to their responsibilities (think teachers, firefighters, hospital workers, etc. etc.) Don't confuse entertainment with importance, or as a wise man once said, don't confuse significance with prominence.

Matt S

scyfreestyler
July 11th, 2006, 12:13 AM
Originally posted by gull80
That's pretty funny--"a solid backup career."

Wait a minute, you weren't being serious, were you?

What is funny about it? If she plays her cards right she could stop "working" in a few years and live off of her past earnings quite comfortably I suspect.

knelson
July 11th, 2006, 12:25 AM
Originally posted by scyfreestyler
What is funny about it? If she plays her cards right she could stop "working" in a few years and live off of her past earnings quite comfortably I suspect.

I agree, but forget about a few years. I'm pretty confident Amanda has made more money already than most of us will make in our lifetimes.

gull
July 11th, 2006, 09:36 AM
She's cashing in on her fame and her good looks. I have no problem with that. But does this constitute a "modeling career?" Let's break it down. If you really believe this is modeling, then I guess you think exotic dancers really are dancers. As far as a career, that term could be applied more appropriately to, say, Jenny Thompson who is enrolled in medical school and plans to be an orthopedic surgeon.

My opinions have absolutely nothing to do with morality. Admittedly my perspective is very definitely influenced by the fact that I have a teenaged daughter. In today's society young women are bombarded with images like this, which seem to be telling them that their appearance is paramount. Of course they themselves can never really look like this, because it's all an illusion. I have tried to instill in my daughter the belief that she is capable of achieving great things, independent of her looks. It's a constant challenge. By the way, if you have a teenaged daughter, I recommend reading Reviving Ophelia.

knelson
July 11th, 2006, 11:23 AM
Originally posted by gull80
But does this constitute a "modeling career?"

People are paying to use her image in advertising. That's modeling in my book.

scyfreestyler
July 11th, 2006, 11:29 AM
Originally posted by gull80
She's cashing in on her fame and her good looks. I have no problem with that. But does this constitute a "modeling career?" Let's break it down. If you really believe this is modeling, then I guess you think exotic dancers really are dancers. As far as a career, that term could be applied more appropriately to, say, Jenny Thompson who is enrolled in medical school and plans to be an orthopedic surgeon.

My opinions have absolutely nothing to do with morality. Admittedly my perspective is very definitely influenced by the fact that I have a teenaged daughter. In today's society young women are bombarded with images like this, which seem to be telling them that their appearance is paramount. Of course they themselves can never really look like this, because it's all an illusion. I have tried to instill in my daughter the belief that she is capable of achieving great things, independent of her looks. It's a constant challenge. By the way, if you have a teenaged daughter, I recommend reading Reviving Ophelia.

I think what she is doing for Speedo would be considered modeling. She is in fact "modeling" swimsuits and active wear for the company in an effort to boost sales. I would agree that the FHM magazine shots are not really modeling, they are strip teases to get men to buy the magazine.


What Jenny Thompson is doing is a great idea, she will be amongst the Stanley Tool club of physicians. I have two daughters, the eldest being 6 right now. I can understand your concerns and given a choice I would prefer that they become MD's, RN's, JD's, or follow some other professional career paths. However, I will support them in whatever legal endeavour they choose to pursue.

geochuck
July 11th, 2006, 11:34 AM
I was paid by the Dow Beer company to be in an ad and was paid for it. I am certainly not a model. I was supposed to make a lot of money from that ad. I did not it is a very sad story. here is the story http://archives.cbc.ca/IDCC-1-73-1395-8739/life_society/beer/

gull
July 11th, 2006, 11:46 AM
That's interesting, George. Did you pose seductively with water splashing on you?

geochuck
July 11th, 2006, 11:54 AM
No they made the ad with me and the top French Canadian actor of the time me walking down the beach. He was supposed to be my coach then they showed segments of me swimming. It showed for several weeks then 16 people died and they thought the beer killed them. That was the end of the add and the Company. It was found much later the people died of heart attacks and was not linked to the beer. It was the end of my acting career and Dow Brewery. Story here again http://archives.cbc.ca/IDCC-1-73-1395-8739/life_society/beer/ The drinkers drank 2 canadian gallons of beer a day the Canadian gallon is one fifth larger tha a US gallon.

Seagurl51
July 11th, 2006, 12:06 PM
Originally posted by gull80
She's cashing in on her fame and her good looks. I have no problem with that. But does this constitute a "modeling career?" Let's break it down. If you really believe this is modeling, then I guess you think exotic dancers really are dancers. As far as a career, that term could be applied more appropriately to, say, Jenny Thompson who is enrolled in medical school and plans to be an orthopedic surgeon.

My opinions have absolutely nothing to do with morality. Admittedly my perspective is very definitely influenced by the fact that I have a teenaged daughter. In today's society young women are bombarded with images like this, which seem to be telling them that their appearance is paramount. Of course they themselves can never really look like this, because it's all an illusion. I have tried to instill in my daughter the belief that she is capable of achieving great things, independent of her looks. It's a constant challenge. By the way, if you have a teenaged daughter, I recommend reading Reviving Ophelia.

I think this does constitute a modeling career. Why shouldn't it? She is indeed modeling. What makes a model who poses for Playboy any different than a model who poses for Vogue? Other than the nature of the photographs, absolutely nothing. They are both trying to pose themselves in the most attractive manner possible. Their career is to look good. Exotic dancers career is to dance. I do consider them careers. What you do to pay the bills is a career, whether it be a doctor, lawyer, striper, model, whatever.

As for society bombarding teenage girls, (being that I turned 20 only 2 months ago), I'd have to say that the vast majority of girls know that these pictures are fake. While some do strive to lose weight and look good, the majority of pictures that I've heard people say that about have been in fitness magazines where the women seem more healthy, than stickly thin. As someone going into the advertising field, I have to say that I think the trend of stick thin models is a dying fad. More and more campaigns are starting to use "real" women in their ads as opposed to size 2 models. The one that jumps to mind is the Dove ads. Their slogan is campaiging for real beauty. While this change will take time, I do think it's on it's way.

Rowdy
July 11th, 2006, 12:23 PM
I have to agree with Seagurl. She is modeling and working on building a career for after swimming.

Why judge her because she has different goals than Jenny T? Both are world class in the sport and appear to be good people.

I don't see anything wrong with the photos. I received a Victoria's Secret catalog in the mail yesterday and thought of this thread. Seductive poses in a catalog are modeling and seductive poses in a magazine are not?

dorothyrde
July 11th, 2006, 12:27 PM
I have found my teen daughter very much has her own mind, and honestly is not swayed by others opinions. I feel very fortunate that she has this mindset, because I do see many of the girls in her grade that look like they are trying to keep up with the Hollywood image.

gull
July 11th, 2006, 12:40 PM
Looks like the consensus is that we'd all be proud to see our daughters pose for pictures like this (if the price is right).

Just don't treat them as sexual objects. Nothing contadictory about that.

Sam Perry
July 11th, 2006, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Seagurl51
I...I'd have to say that the vast majority of girls know that these pictures are fake. While some do strive to lose weight and look good, the majority of pictures that I've heard people say that about have been in fitness magazines where the women seem more healthy, than stickly thin. As someone going into the advertising field, I have to say that I think the trend of stick thin models is a dying fad...

Very good point! The heroin addicted/anexoric look is fading thank goodness. But wow, Amanda's pictures as fake as they are, you have to admit her body is for real. Regardless of how she chooses to pose and show it, she has attained a body by training hard in a sport we all love (yes, genetics does help).

I would wonder how many women on here would like to have a body like that not just for the look but more importantly, how it has been attained. No drugs, starvation, etc. Hard work and dedication in the pool and dry land has helped mold her.

I have a 6 year old daughter and would love for her to be as successful as Amanda Beard is in whatever field she chooses. Amanda has chosen swimming, been incredibly successful at it, and continnues to build on that success. I can assure you, if she wasn't an Olympic medalist she wouldn't be on the cover of FHM or on MTV (tonight), or on the CBS Morning Show (this week).

She has not "sold out" and I take her very seriuosly. If she is training again for 2008 I can assure you every breaststroker in the world will take her seriously in spite of the FHM Magazine cover. If they think like Xenadiva does, she wins and they lose.

dorothyrde
July 11th, 2006, 01:02 PM
Did anyone say that?

The question is, did Amanda sell out. If Amanda is comfortable in doing this, than no, it is not a sell out. I think something like this is an individual thing. Some day your daughter may feel OK with something like this, but then again maybe not. She may do something else you don't agree with, but once she is an adult, it is her decision.

And modeling involves quite a bit of sexuality. My best friend in high school went into modeling for awhile. Her first job....give away blankets in a bank. When she had to dress for that, they did not want her looking like a banker, no, they hired a model that they wanted made up and looking sexy and like a hundred bucks. It took a year, but she got really, really sick of the modeling world and the emphasis on looks only and sexuality.

knelson
July 11th, 2006, 01:02 PM
Originally posted by Seagurl51
More and more campaigns are starting to use "real" women in their ads as opposed to size 2 models. The one that jumps to mind is the Dove ads. Their slogan is campaiging for real beauty. While this change will take time, I do think it's on it's way.

God, I really hope it isn't.

Sam Perry
July 11th, 2006, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by gull80
Looks like the consensus is that we'd all be proud to see our daughters pose for pictures like this (if the price is right).

Just don't treat them as sexual objects. Nothing contadictory about that.

This statement is hogwash. Sorry to be so blunt, but that is one of the most ridiculous assumptions I have seen on here in a long time.

Sam Perry
July 11th, 2006, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by knelson
God, I really hope it isn't.

HAHAHAHA!! :D

Amen brother!

gull
July 11th, 2006, 01:08 PM
Originally posted by dorothyrde
It took a year, but she got really, really sick of the modeling world and the emphasis on looks only and sexuality.

That's my point, but it's not just modeling, it's prevalent throughout the media. I thought women wanted to be taken more seriously in the boardroom. To my untrained eye, it seems that we're moving in the opposite direction.

Peter Cruise
July 11th, 2006, 02:40 PM
'Goodness, I don't know what all the fuss is about, she looks just like most of the women on deck at a typical Masters meet'

Mr. Magoo

Sabretooth Tiger
July 11th, 2006, 02:53 PM
'Goodness, I don't know what all the fuss is about, she looks just like most of the women on deck at a typical Masters meet'

Mr. Magoo

ROFLMAO :)

dorothyrde
July 11th, 2006, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by gull80
That's my point, but it's not just modeling, it's prevalent throughout the media. I thought women wanted to be taken more seriously in the boardroom. To my untrained eye, it seems that we're moving in the opposite direction.

But if your 20 something daughter were enamored with the idea of being a model, how are you going to stop her? It would be her choice, not yours. And that is where I stand with Amanda, it is her choice and if she is OK with it, that is her personal decision. Just because she is an Olympian, it does not change that she has the right to model whatever she pleases.


Mr Magoo......in my dreams.....(and probably my husbands as well)

Seagurl51
July 11th, 2006, 04:38 PM
I keep hearing of more and more models who have a huge influence in the business aspect of their careers. Look at Tyra Banks. She actually retired from modeling to focus on the business end of things. Now she has two hit TV shows and is involved hugely in the production and running of them. She went from being a successful model to taking her in-depth knowledge of the buisness and using it to her advantage.

Not all women want to be models or look like models or even acknowledge that models exist, but simply because they do I don't think has any effect on a woman trying to become CEO of a Fortune 500 company. And if it does have an effect, I would have to blame it on the Old Boys Club.....but that's a whole 'nother can of worms that hopefully I didn't open.

gull
July 11th, 2006, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by dorothyrde
Just because she is an Olympian, it does not change that she has the right to model whatever she pleases.

Of course she does. I just fail to see how this furthers the cause of women in our society (not that she needs to concern herself with that). Anyway, if it doesn't bother you or Seagurl, I guess it shouldn't bother me. I just want my daughter to know that there are limitless opportunities in the world that have nothing to do with her appearance.

dorothyrde
July 11th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Gull, I think our girls know this. I know the career counseling they have in our schools starts in junior high, and as far as I know, posing for Men's magazines is not one of the careers they talk about. These days girls as well as boys are prepped for college and have every expectation of getting good educations and good jobs.

Our daughters are smart people. I know the girls I coach on my daughters softball team all have good sense of self, are smart and ready to take on the world. Same with volunteering in the schools for different things. Yes, they are bombarded with somewhat unsavory media at times, but they seem to know how to sort things out. This is a good generation and I really enjoy them.

gull
July 11th, 2006, 06:08 PM
Right, but as my dad once told me, as a parent you worry about everything.

scyfreestyler
July 11th, 2006, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by dorothyrde
Gull, I think our girls know this. I know the career counseling they have in our schools starts in junior high, and as far as I know, posing for Men's magazines is not one of the careers they talk about.

Don't come to California!!! I had a heated debate on a political forum about this subject last year. Some people just have no scruples.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/01/14/BAG94APTGB1.DTL

dorothyrde
July 11th, 2006, 06:25 PM
Originally posted by gull80
Right, but as my dad once told me, as a parent you worry about everything.


Yes we do.

And honestly my biggest concern with my kids and the teens I know is drinking. I think that is a far bigger problem than something like this.


Matt. just read your article, I guess only in California, at least I hope so. We have former governors(not the ones indicted folks)
and people like that speak with our 8th graders! Would be interesting to know what career day in Vegas might be like though.

Leonard Jansen
July 12th, 2006, 08:05 AM
Originally posted by gull80
Right, but as my dad once told me, as a parent you worry about everything.

That's why guilt was invented - so you can be there nagging in spirit when you can't be there in person. My mother's mother was a zen master at this.

Ms. Beard's magazine pix are nothing more than "looking out for #1." While it would be nice if she would use her celebrity status, such as it is, to further the position of women in society, I don't see that there is anything implicit in athletics that fosters such altruism.

-LBJ

kokkole
July 14th, 2006, 03:34 AM
Originally posted by gull80
Right, but as my dad once told me, as a parent you worry about everything.

my mom says, "educating teenagers is like nailing jello to a tree."

kind of lets you off the hook from all the worrying. the best way to educate your children is through good example, and this includes drinking patterns... etc.

just my 2 euros! :cool:

dorothyrde
July 14th, 2006, 06:16 AM
Originally posted by kokkole
my mom says, "educating teenagers is like nailing jello to a tree."

kind of lets you off the hook from all the worrying. the best way to educate your children is through good example, and this includes drinking patterns... etc.

just my 2 euros! :cool:

Agreed! My sister has told me my daughter is exactly like me(OH my!). My daughter does not like to hear that. And my 18 year old boy is very much like his Dad.

mattson
July 14th, 2006, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by kokkole
my mom says, "educating teenagers is like nailing jello to a tree."

Did you ask your mom why she would know so much about nailing jello to a tree? :confused:

Dobbie
July 17th, 2006, 11:00 AM
I'm happy with these.....She looks very fast

gull
July 18th, 2006, 09:08 AM
Every so often your kids do something that makes you think you really are doing a good job as a parent. Case in point--my 15 year old daughter is off to camp today and burned a CD last night to take with her. She left me a copy, and I was surprised to find a few cuts from the Stones (Start Me Up, Shattered, Brown Sugar, She's So Cold) included in the mix. I must be doing something right.

aquageek
July 18th, 2006, 10:06 AM
Originally posted by gull80
...and I was surprised to find a few cuts from the Stones (Start Me Up, Shattered, Brown Sugar, She's So Cold) included in the mix.

I thought you were a cardiologist but apparently you are a geriatrician.

However, it does beat the endless supply of country music my wife and kids subject me to.

gull
July 18th, 2006, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by aquageek
I thought you were a cardiologist but apparently you are a geriatrician.

January is not that far off. I think your time would be better spent in the pool training for the 500. It will be very embarassing when you lose to a middle aged man.

shoalsswimmer
July 18th, 2006, 12:48 PM
Is Francesca Piccinini, an Italian volleyball player, dubbed the "world's Sexiest Athlete" a sellout?

Probably, but I don't care.

There are many beautiful women athletes capitalizing on their looks now more than ever - combining their earnings from the results of endorsements and athletic prowess.

I applaud their efforts.

aquageek
July 18th, 2006, 01:53 PM
Originally posted by gull80
January is not that far off. I think your time would be better spent in the pool training for the 500. It will be very embarassing when you lose to a middle aged man.

Does racing this weekend in the putrid brown 90 degree waters of Lake Norman for 1.2 miles count as training?

scyfreestyler
July 18th, 2006, 04:40 PM
Originally posted by aquageek
Does racing this weekend in the putrid brown 90 degree waters of Lake Norman for 1.2 miles count as training?

That sounds like something out of Fear Factor or Survivor to me. Good luck with that though.

aquageek
July 18th, 2006, 05:23 PM
It's also within a few miles of a nuclear power plant. Good thing I already have kids, huh?

Peter Cruise
July 18th, 2006, 06:24 PM
Migawd Geek, you're breeding? The horror...

gull
July 18th, 2006, 06:31 PM
Peter--I, too, was surprised to see that the Geek has a lovely wife and two (?) adorable kids. Of course, he may just have rented them for the day.

Hey, what happened to the picture of Francesca?

BillS
July 18th, 2006, 06:32 PM
Is Francesca Piccinini, an Italian volleyball player, dubbed the "world's Sexiest Athlete" a sellout?

Not to take anything away from another scintillating Geek/Gull smackdown cage match, but a quick Google search of the aforementioned volleyballer will find you some calendar photos from Men's Health Italia, one of which features her in a pair of swim goggles. And not much else. Makes Amanda's shots look like high school yearbook stuff.

The europeans have such a nice, healthy attitude toward sex and the human form. Viva Italia.

(Of course, the european birth rate is declining. Maybe we should send them Britney Spears, Lindsey Lohan, and Paris Hilton. Just a thought.)

Peter Cruise
July 18th, 2006, 07:31 PM
When Francesca popped out on my screen from the original posting to the forum, she elicited derisive comments from my female staff regarding my defensive "Hey, it's a swimming site!" and a near heart attack from me.

aquageek
July 18th, 2006, 07:55 PM
Originally posted by gull80
Hey, what happened to the picture of Francesca?

Possibly banished in the same manner as big boy Speedo man that shows up from time to time on this forum.

Pigeon80 is correct, those were rented props for the weekend. As I type I'm burning gull a CD of favorite pop hits of the Civil War to add to his geezer Stones collection.

Cruise - you're back on the list. I'll have to beat you down like I did poor pitiful gull.

shoalsswimmer
July 19th, 2006, 02:54 PM
My picture of Francesca was "last edited by matysekj on 7-18-2006 at 12:58 PM"

Probably a good move.

Sorry for pushing the envelope.

"No discussion forum for you! Come back, one year!"

CreamPuff
July 20th, 2006, 03:28 PM
Good for her! I'm thrilled to see swimmers getting the same opportunities as other athletes. Maybe I still have a chance. . . ;)

Steve Ruiter
July 25th, 2006, 07:41 PM
nevermind

geochuck
August 31st, 2006, 09:45 AM
Don't do a search for Francesca Piccinini, I did and came up with a porno site and it infected my computer with a virus. Now every time I open my computer I get porn, porn, porn... My google search now gives me only Italian sites bad, bad, bad stuff.

I am taking the unit in today to the Geeks to get it back on track.

Peter Cruise
August 31st, 2006, 02:16 PM
So, that's the story you told your wife to explain it, eh George?

geochuck
August 31st, 2006, 02:24 PM
Thats exactly what I told Chuckie she said she was going to give herself an early birthday present and I said yes dear.